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View Full Version : Spitfire shot down the last German, Seafire shot down the last Japanese plane WW2???



Xiolablu3
08-22-2006, 01:34 PM
I just read that the Spitfire shot down the last Gemran plane and the Seafire shot down the last Japanese plane in WW2, anyone know if this is accurate?

I know I am from England and all, but where ever that plane was from, you have to admire the fact that it was there in 1939 and competetive right to the end of the war.

Spitfire and Bf109 (which also lasted throughout the whole war) really were great designs.

Any other planes wich were competitive throughout the whole war?

I thought maybe Ju88? There are not many others I dont think. Possibly Zero?

faustnik
08-22-2006, 01:37 PM
The P-38 and the Yak?

Low_Flyer_MkVb
08-22-2006, 01:49 PM
Swordfish. Seriously.

joeap
08-22-2006, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Swordfish. Seriously.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Though gotta agree about the other vhoices in this post, not to mention the IL2.

LeOs.K_Walstein
08-22-2006, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Any other planes wich were competitive throughout the whole war?

I thought maybe Ju88? There are not many others I dont think. Possibly Zero?

Arado 196 (?), Heinkel 111, Ju 88, Stuka, Tante Ju (Ju 52)...

I wonder if the Spitfire was there in 1939, from the beginning...!

Ever lasting,
Wallstein

Chuck_Older
08-22-2006, 02:21 PM
I had always thought that the last german aircraft loss occured when a US observation light aircraft's pilot and his passenger had used their sidearms to down a Storch

tigertalon
08-22-2006, 02:21 PM
AFAIK the last japanese plane shot down was a C6N "Myrt", shot down at 5:40 on 15th August 45 by USN fighters.

Yes, Xiola, not many designs that were competitive through the whole war. Still, Spit XXI or XIV had little in common with Ia. Just as much as Lagg1 had with La7, or Yak1 with Yak9U. We should be carefull by marking here, a new one doesn't make plane completely different (like early La5s were actually just reengined Lagg3 fuselages and thus dubbed lagg5 by germans, or same story with Ki-61-IIkai and Ki-100).

They were all constantly reengined with even more powerfull engines, and in general they got bubble canopy, their fuselages got more aerodynamic.

It's a question, where in a evolution of a fighter quantity of changes is big enough for us to consider it as a new design.

Other plane families that stayed competitive through whole war: already mentioned Yak and La families, IL2/10 line, Ju88/188/388 line, P39/P63, Reggiane, Fiat and Macchi series, Pe2 out of head. Could probably find some more.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
08-22-2006, 02:25 PM
That's the story I've read, Chuck. Ironic really - all that technological development and it ended up with a pistols at dawn early WWI type affair as the last fight.

Xiolablu3
08-22-2006, 03:40 PM
Possibly its not true about the Spitfire/Seafire, I just read it on 'some site' and thought I would ask you guys to confirm/unconfirm it.

P38 is definitely one I forgot. I am only recently learning just how good that plane was.

I didnt realise it had such an amazing climb rate for example.

MEGILE
08-22-2006, 03:47 PM
FW-190

Aaron_GT
08-22-2006, 03:55 PM
Other plane families that stayed competitive through whole war: already mentioned Yak and La families, IL2/10 line, Ju88/188/388 line, P39/P63, Reggiane, Fiat and Macchi series, Pe2 out of head. Could probably find some more.

The IL2 was competitive throughout the USSR's war with Germany, but not the whole of WW2, as the USSR was involved (on various sides) from 1939, which predates the IL2. Ditto the Pe-2 which also didn't enter service until 1941.

Also whilst the P39 was competitive throught the USA's war, it wasn't there at the war's start in 1939, it was still at an X designation and didn't enter service until February 1941.

JG53Frankyboy
08-22-2006, 04:12 PM
i would say the Spitfire familie made it through the whole WW2 from September 1939 beeing combat ready with FighterCommand in UK - till august 1945 in PTO/CBI areas.

also Douglas DB7 familie is not bad - saw combat service with the french in may 1940 . and sure flew august 1945 in the PTO - propably even with the soviets ..........

berg417448
08-22-2006, 04:18 PM
The PBY.

LStarosta
08-22-2006, 08:29 PM
This further proves that the Spitfire won the war.

Xiolablu3
08-22-2006, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
This further proves that the Spitfire won the war.

It would be, but it seems its not twue.

...The Spitfire DIDN'T win the war after all?!?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

PBNA-Boosher
08-22-2006, 09:06 PM
P-40! The P-40 served everywhere and was able to represent itself well. A Big salute to the Kittyhawks and Warhawks!

Enforcer572005
08-23-2006, 09:34 AM
yeah , the storch "kill" from a Cub is probably the last one in the west. Air Force magazine had a great cartoon of this, the observer blasting the storch engine, then the german crew standing with thier hands up, the pilot saying "und you mit a machine gun!!". (they had an MG-15 on some).

Ive also seen accounts of a P-61 named "Bit o Lace" (subj of an airfix kit i had in the 60s) scoring the last kill late that night (an Oscar), and a B-32 Dominator gunner. Now THAT was an unusual looking bomber.

anyway, it's gonna be kinda hard to say for sure which was the ACTUAL last kill, because of all that was going on at any one time.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

OH, and the P-39 was NEVER competitive in the west, only in the east, for reasons that are extensively discussed elsewhere on here. It was universally hated by nearly all allied pilots who flew it in air to air combat.

And the P-40N was a bit long in tooth, and those units still stuck with it (mostly the 14th AF) would have preferred more advanced aircraft by 45, though it was certainly competitive thru the war.

Kinda odd that we stuck some of our units with P-39s and P-40s in 44 and 45 when the P-63 was coming off the line and was being used only for training in the US, while being issued to French and Soviet air forces.

berg417448
08-23-2006, 11:38 AM
Speaking of the B-32...It was involved in Saburo Sakai's last combat...technically after the war ended.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/stories/b32.html

Saburo Sakai's Last Battle

The war was over on August 15th, 1945, but Saburo Sakai's last combat mission took place two days after that day.

The 15th and the 16th went by quickly, and it was a little past 11:30 AM on the 17th when we suddenly heard an air raid alarm. We were caught totally off guard because we thought it was all over, and we all stood up with a tense feeling. Intelligence says the enemy is one large bomber flying up the Boso Peninsula. The war is over now, do they still want to fight?
"Commander what should we do? Intercept him?" I asked.
Lt.Cmdr Ibusuki hesitated for a moment, then called the Hikocho and asked something, hung up, and hollered "Start the engines!"
We surrounded Lt.Cmdr. Ibusuki with excitement.
"International law forbids us to attack the enemy after surrender, but it is okay to get back at planes that come to attack us. Come on men! Go get him!" he said.
The pilots who were all frustrated at the sudden surrender sprung on to their planes which were already started. There were ten Zeros and five or six Shiden-kais. I chose the nearest Zero. I thought I would never fly the Zero again, so I was very excited about having the chance to fly again.
It wasn't just because the Zero was nearest to me that I chose the Zero. Ever since it's debut in 1940, I was into my sixth year flying and fighting on the Zero. In fact a Shiden-kai, then the state-of-the-art fighter plane, was parked even closer to where I was than the Zero I flew. However, I instinctively chose the Zero, not even considering the Shiden-kai. the thought that flashed in my mind then was this;
"The Pacific War was started by the Zero. This is probably going to be the last air battle in WW2, and I would want to let the Zero place it's name in history as having fought that last battle!"
Three or four planes followed me up. We were heading for Narita. If you were not a pilot, you may wonder why we would still fight; the war was over and shooting down the enemy was not going to do us any good. On the contrary, we may lose our lives which had been saved. But such logic just did not make sense to us then.
At around this time, the Yokosuka Kokutai was working on the improvement of radio equipment on fighter planes and, performance had improved considerably, so we had no trouble finding the enemy. We found him at 6,000 meters. I had assumed the enemy was a B-29, but what I saw was a completely different aircraft. The single vertical stabilizer was enormous, and sweeped upwards towards the rear. I had never seen this plane before (I later found out that this was the Convair B-32 Dominator).
Altitude 6,000 meters is where the 2nd speed of the Zero's supercharger works best. My wingman got to him first and started shooting. The enemy was obviously surprised at the interception, and started fleeing south, shooting it's defensive guns frantically. I managed to catch up after a while, but the enemy's airspeed was very high. I made a run from the upper right side, but got interrupted by another Zero that got in my way. There were more fighters than the enemy so I had to wait for my turn to attack again. The enemy went into a shallow dive to increase air speed. It was so fast! I thought they used some kind of rocket acceralator device or something.
We had quickly flown past Tateyama and the enemy was fleeing towards Ohshima. I noticed that the enemy was trailing white smoke from the left wing root. Someone's bullet hit the enemy!
"We can get him", I thought. However, I was having a hard time catching up. I noted our fighters started turning back one by one. They were out of 20mm shells. I fired my last cannon shells. Several shells exploded on the enemy's right wing. My wingman followed with a burst. The enemy kept getting lower, and by the time it was near Miyake-jima, it was skimming the water. I thought I should confirm it going down, but if an enemy carrier was around, we would have to fight fresh fighters. Then it would be our turn to die. I turned around and headed back to Yokosuka Kokutai. If my memory is right, the other Zero that followed me to the last attack was another ace, PO1 Komachi.
This apparently became the last air battle of the Pacific War.
According to US records, on august 17th 1945, a B-32 that took off from Iwo Jima on a recon mission over Tokyo splashed down near the Izu islands due to malfunction. All crew were rescued.
Apparently, the action was legal and we were never questioned about this action by McArthur's forces.

Zero-sen No Saigo, Saburo Sakai 1995, ISBN4-06-207770-1



Winged Samurai: Saburo Sakai and the Zero Fighter Pilots

€œAnother point of interest is Sakai's debunking certain myths that have cropped up since the end of the War, such as his famed "last combat". In "Samurai!" it is written that Sakai and a certain "Jiro Kawachi" took off in their Zeros and at night, attacked and brought down a B-29. Not so, says Sakai. "There was no Jiro Kowachi". He says he and several others took off in the daytime and attacked and exchanged fire with a B-32 Dominator "Hobo Queen" but failed to shoot it down. This and several other inaccuracies are corrected.€

http://www.j-aircraft.com/books/grant-4-24-01.htm

Wtornado_439th
08-23-2006, 11:58 AM
Well we ALL know that the Spitfire was the best fighter ever built so it is without any speculation that indeed it did shoot down the last German and IJN aircraft.

It couldn't of been a Mustang they were shooting all aircraft down friend or foe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

berg417448
08-23-2006, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Wtornado_439th:
Well we ALL know that the Spitfire was the best fighter ever built so it is without any speculation that indeed it did shoot down the last German and IJN aircraft.

It couldn't of been a Mustang they were shooting all aircraft down friend or foe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

RAF Typhoon pilots might disagree with you...Spitfires were their worst enemy for a while. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WB_Outlaw
08-23-2006, 12:38 PM
The last engagement between Spitfires and 109s resulted in an Egyptian Spitfire being shot down by an Israeli 109.

--Outlaw.

Sillius_Sodus
08-24-2006, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
yeah , the storch "kill" from a Cub is probably the last one in the west. Air Force magazine had a great cartoon of this, the observer blasting the storch engine, then the german crew standing with thier hands up, the pilot saying "und you mit a machine gun!!". (they had an MG-15 on some).

Ive also seen accounts of a P-61 named "Bit o Lace" (subj of an airfix kit i had in the 60s) scoring the last kill late that night (an Oscar), and a B-32 Dominator gunner. Now THAT was an unusual looking bomber.

anyway, it's gonna be kinda hard to say for sure which was the ACTUAL last kill, because of all that was going on at any one time.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

OH, and the P-39 was NEVER competitive in the west, only in the east, for reasons that are extensively discussed elsewhere on here. It was universally hated by nearly all allied pilots who flew it in air to air combat.

And the P-40N was a bit long in tooth, and those units still stuck with it (mostly the 14th AF) would have preferred more advanced aircraft by 45, though it was certainly competitive thru the war.

Kinda odd that we stuck some of our units with P-39s and P-40s in 44 and 45 when the P-63 was coming off the line and was being used only for training in the US, while being issued to French and Soviet air forces.

Enforcer,

"A Bit O'Lace" was the name on Aifix's 1/72 scale B-17G. I built one in the early 70's. Fantastic detail, all those movable turrets and a racy decal to boot. I never built their P-61 so it may have been called that too.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

mynameisroland
08-24-2006, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I just read that the Spitfire shot down the last Gemran plane and the Seafire shot down the last Japanese plane in WW2, anyone know if this is accurate?

I know I am from England and all, but where ever that plane was from, you have to admire the fact that it was there in 1939 and competetive right to the end of the war.

Spitfire and Bf109 (which also lasted throughout the whole war) really were great designs.

Any other planes wich were competitive throughout the whole war?

I thought maybe Ju88? There are not many others I dont think. Possibly Zero?

Spitfire vs 109 didnt end in WW2. IIRC the last combat between these two types ended in an aerial kill for an IAF 109 verus an Egyptian Spitfire. So great design or no great design a Spitfire IX was still shot down by a crappy Jumo powered Bf 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Akronnick
08-24-2006, 03:07 PM
B-17 was also used start to finish.

Col._King
08-24-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
yeah , the storch "kill" from a Cub is probably the last one in the west. Air Force magazine had a great cartoon of this, the observer blasting the storch engine, then the german crew standing with thier hands up, the pilot saying "und you mit a machine gun!!". (they had an MG-15 on some).

Ive also seen accounts of a P-61 named "Bit o Lace" (subj of an airfix kit i had in the 60s) scoring the last kill late that night (an Oscar), and a B-32 Dominator gunner. Now THAT was an unusual looking bomber.

anyway, it's gonna be kinda hard to say for sure which was the ACTUAL last kill, because of all that was going on at any one time.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

OH, and the P-39 was NEVER competitive in the west, only in the east, for reasons that are extensively discussed elsewhere on here. It was universally hated by nearly all allied pilots who flew it in air to air combat.

And the P-40N was a bit long in tooth, and those units still stuck with it (mostly the 14th AF) would have preferred more advanced aircraft by 45, though it was certainly competitive thru the war.

Kinda odd that we stuck some of our units with P-39s and P-40s in 44 and 45 when the P-63 was coming off the line and was being used only for training in the US, while being issued to French and Soviet air forces.

Enforcer,

"A Bit O'Lace" was the name on Aifix's 1/72 scale B-17G. I built one in the early 70's. Fantastic detail, all those movable turrets and a racy decal to boot. I never built their P-61 so it may have been called that too.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-61B that downed the last Japanese planes in WW2 was actually named "Lady of the Dark". And the fact happened during the night between 15 to 16 August, 1945, about 2:30AM.
The P-61 Lady of the Dark was reproduced in scale by Airfix (1/72), about 30 years ago, and more recently ( 8 or 10 years ago) by DRAGON, in 1/72 scale, too.
Monogram still have a 1/48 kit of the P-61.

Regards

Art-J
08-25-2006, 12:43 PM
What about Manchuria front? The Russians did not seize fire on the 15th of august and kept pushing until they got Kuryl Islands and Sakhalin, right? So maybe the "truly last plane" was downed somewhere there, but we don't know about it...

Cheers - Art

Enforcer572005
08-28-2006, 07:53 AM
I stand corrected. Yeah, bit of lace was a B-17. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gifIt's been about 4 decades for me, so....

I had so many airfix kits. That B-17, as well as thier B-24s and B-29, were extremely detailed and alot of fun to built.

I believe the last war where WW2 planes fought each other was the soccer war between El Salvador and Honduras in 65. Honduran Corsairs handily defeated Salvadorean Corsairs and P-51Ds in air combat.

Mariskal made a GREAT cmpn based on these events called Corsairios cartrachos (well, blast, I cant remember how to spell the last word). anyway, check his page of misns on misn 4 today to find it.

Timex62
08-28-2006, 09:35 AM
This is just a small technical note but the last US victory was from the P-61 "Lady IN the Dark". I have a picture of her that was passed on to me from my Grandfather. If i recall correctly the Oscar wasn't shot down but flown into the ground by the P-61.

rebelpacket
08-28-2006, 12:31 PM
Its quite ironic, really. During the battle of Britian, Galland was quoted when asked what high command could do to help the war, "Get me a squadron of spitfires!". Yet, if you asked the Brit's, they'd ask for a handful of Me109's.

I'd say the Me109 vs Spits is a pretty even comparison. Its tough to call the Battle of Britian a fair proving ground, with the 109's only having 15-20 minutes of fuel availible to fight with, and the Spits often having fairly green pilots. But they sure put on a hell of a show.

I dont know who shot down who last. But I've read stories about German pilots landing on airfields that they took off from in the morning, and we're captured by the time they landed.

Its a shame so many of the Luftwaffe's most amazing aircraft and technology was razed to death. I think there is only a handful of flying condition 109's left in the world.

Anyone ever read the White1 project? Its a hoot. I bought one of the original FW-190 cylinders when they had them for sale. Its currently on my coffee table.
http://www.white1foundation.com/