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Antti25
07-16-2005, 05:29 AM

Antti25
07-16-2005, 05:31 AM
I mean if you want reply to this post.

HoneySeeker
07-16-2005, 05:52 AM
Ju-88A4 is coming, and nobody modelled the Blenheim. That's why.

Having said that, I would have loved to mess around in the Blenheim, suicidal though it might have been. Perhaps in BoB, or one of its add-ons?

VW-IceFire
07-16-2005, 09:10 AM
Antti - I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say but the Ju-88 is supposed to be coming along soon.

The cockpit can be seen here:
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/de/screenshots.php

KG26_Oranje
07-16-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Antti - I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say but the Ju-88 is supposed to be coming along soon.

The cockpit can be seen here:
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/de/screenshots.php

S! all,
Well i think he is speaking for many silance bomber fans.
We just like to see more flyable bombers in this game not flyable jets or prototype`s.
This is a WW2 sim not a luft 46 or Waht if sim.
We got many fighters flyable buht not many bombers.
For online campains we are not able to make it historical correct wiht the bomber force.
B-25 for the fins?
HE111H2/6 for the Germans in 1944?
Betty for the Dutch/French /polska early war , west front?
IL2T for carrier ops?
Were are the Do17`s/215/217`s , Ju88/188/288`s , Mossie`s , Pe2`s/PE3`s , B26 , Wellington , Blenheims , Hampton`s , B-17`s , TU2`s , Martin B-10`s , etc etc.
Its make me made , becose i cant try to bilt cockpits for it and see year after year how more fighters make it flyable buht not many bombers.
Thnx
S! all
I/KG26_Oranje

Tooz_69GIAP
07-16-2005, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Antti - I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say but the Ju-88 is supposed to be coming along soon.

The cockpit can be seen here:
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/de/screenshots.php

S! all,
Well i think he is speaking for many silance bomber fans.
We just like to see more flyable bombers in this game not flyable jets or prototype`s.
This is a WW2 sim not a luft 46 or Waht if sim.
We got many fighters flyable buht not many bombers.
For online campains we are not able to make it historical correct wiht the bomber force.
B-25 for the fins?
HE111H2/6 for the Germans in 1944?
Betty for the Dutch/French /polska early war , west front?
IL2T for carrier ops?
Were are the Do17`s/215/217`s , Ju88/188/288`s , Mossie`s , Pe2`s/PE3`s , B26 , Wellington , Blenheims , Hampton`s , B-17`s , TU2`s , Martin B-10`s , etc etc.
Its make me made , becose i cant try to bilt cockpits for it and see year after year how more fighters make it flyable buht not many bombers.
Thnx
S! all
I/KG26_Oranje </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, these are questions that have been asked since IL-2. Ever since I started playing I have been asking the same questions, and posting often in threads where bombers are mentioned.

But the lack of bombers is what happens when you let self interested 3rd party modellers model whatever aircraft they feel like, just because they can (I'm not knocking it per se, but better aircraft could have been produced for the sim).

But then you also have to consider that building cockpits for bombers can be 3-4 times as time consuming, or more than building a single seat fighter because all of the stations must be modelled, and some of the stations can be as complex as the main cockpit itself.

We are going to get the Ju-88 and Mosquito later this year (around September hopefully), and the Pe-2/3 will be released in the Russian add-on which hopefully we will have released to us in the west somehow.

F19_Olli72
07-16-2005, 02:18 PM
Po-2....now theres a real bomber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hawker Hart vs Po-2 duels wouldve rocked, but alas....thats just a pipedream. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Gremlin181
07-16-2005, 02:24 PM
Just my 2 cents worth but its my opinion that we are spoiled by the IL series.

Many flight sims in the past have given maybe 8 or 10 aircraft at most, some dont have any bombers.

Just how many flyable aircraft came with IL2FB Aces and Pacific fighters 40 50 60 more ?

I understand the frustration of not having a favourite aircraft but hey you have a huge number of aircraft to fly.

Its surely not that big a deal, even if OLeg and co created say 300 flyable aircraft you can bet there would be letters saying but what about *****

Other than that I hope you get your wish and see Ju88s and Bleneims, and you create a viable squadron

KG26_Oranje
07-16-2005, 03:33 PM
Gremlin u dont get the point bro.
We are Bomber fans not fighter fans , we dont fly fighters if possible.
We are asking for flyable bombers from the first IL2 patch came out. (and thats many years ago from now)
For us Bomber fans i dont care if we get 20 or 150 fighters in the game.
I just like to see Bombers flyable for any war piriod.
Not a 1941 bomber in a 1945 coop.
get the point now?
JU88A4 and HE111H2/H6 are from the early time piriod not late war.
And waht have the allies to bomb wiht a mid/late war bomber the B-25.
So level bombing in coops are very limeted.

I hope Oleg Get more atantion for it in BOB.
For IL2 its now to late , its over or near the end.

S! Oranje

Stigler_9_JG52
07-16-2005, 08:00 PM
Believe me, you don't wanna be in a Blenheim.

These things truly suck, and were shot down in DROVES over France and elsewhere.

KOM.Nausicaa
07-17-2005, 03:11 AM
If we talk about bombers to be made flyable I think the best "coup" would be the B17. Give the axis guys the Ju88 and the allied guys the B17 and I can hear the cheering from here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HoneySeeker
07-17-2005, 04:05 AM
I hope Oleg Get more atantion for it in BOB.
For IL2 its now to late , its over or near the end.
Very true, but some of the old BoB work-in-progress shots give us cause for optimism WRT bombers and other multi-engine aircraft:

Bf-110
Do-17, 215
He-111
FIAT BR-20
Fw-200
Ju-88, 52
--
Beaufighter
Wellington

One would hope that most or all would be flyable.

Plelv44_Mangrov
07-17-2005, 05:09 AM
Stigler: All things are relative. Finnish pilots flown them in 1944 and didn't suffer so high losses against eg. La-5 and P-39. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Olli72
07-17-2005, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by HoneySeeker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I hope Oleg Get more atantion for it in BOB.
For IL2 its now to late , its over or near the end.
Very true, but some of the old BoB work-in-progress shots give us cause for optimism WRT bombers and other multi-engine aircraft:

Bf-110
Do-17, 215
He-111
FIAT BR-20
Fw-200
Ju-88, 52
--
Beaufighter
Wellington

One would hope that most or all would be flyable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot the Heinkel 59 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A movie tip: "Action in the North Atlantic" starring Humphrey Bogart, the ship hes on is attacked by two He-59's. Quite nice scenes.

Also i cant understand the ppl who uses "its cr@p" or "it sucked" as an argument not to include or fly a plane. These games are simulating ww2, not all plane can be 'best'. And theres ppl who enjoys flying the early crappier planes too. Me for example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Id be happy in a Blenheim, Dornier, Heinkel 59 or a Bolton Paul Defiant. Performance isnt my main priority for liking a plane.

HoneySeeker
07-17-2005, 08:15 AM
"its cr@p" or "it sucked"
Heh. I would have used that as an excuse to try the plane out first. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'll fly and enjoy any and all planes in BoB - as long as I'm not forced to man the Blenheim's under-nose turret. Debilitating motion sickness just ain't my bag. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ultimately, it comes down to this: I would *like* to fly the Blenheim in what we have now, but I would absolutely *love* to fly it in BoB, with the added complexity and richness of detail that'll go with the new game. If it's a choice of one or the other (and essentially it is), then BoB must take priority.

Gremlin181
07-17-2005, 06:02 PM
KG26_Oranje
Oh I did get the point I understand your frustration in this matter.
I have dedicated bomber pilots in my squad most of whome got real upset there were no B17s Lancasters etc when cfs3 was released it seemed so obvious to us that they would be included.
However cfs3 is not intended to simulate strategic bombing.

I guess the way I think is the il series has far more aircraft than others and it does have bombers.
Given that the game is designed to apeal to a fairly wide number of people so as to maximise sales, then it makes sense to offer aircraft you know will be popular, and to offer those that excisted but probably won't have a great number of people wanting to fly as ai aircraft.

I am not saying no one would want to fly a Bleneim or a fairy battle but history tells us at times it was practically suicidal to do so.

The advantage of the Fsim series and CFS series was aircraft were unlimited so 3rd party enthusiasts could create any aircraft.

On the bad side anyone who has downloaded some of those aircraft knows they were not always perfect and of course cheating in online games was rife.

I have always been of the opinion that the way forward was to find a way of allowing both in online games.
So we could fly the IL series with Maddox only aircraft or open the game to any aircraft.
If it could be done I for one would be a happy bunny.
I probably havn't the knowledge to see whether this would be good or bad for Maddox games, I would hope that it would make the game more popular and give it an even more secure position as the premier combat flight sim.

But there is always a possibility that gamers would simply buy il2fb and the ignore all further addons and just create a vast range of aircraft.

That said there are not a huge number of bombers and they do form a very small fraction of the total flyable aircraft and I would recon that a future patch would do well to add more if it was feasable.

LEXX_Luthor
07-17-2005, 06:10 PM
Gremlin::
fairy battle
http://www.boardy.de/images/smilies/ylflower.gif

I loved this bomberette since I first read about it when I was a Squish. It made me fall in love with the long greenhouse canopies, and now with Bf-110 I finally can sim with a canopy like this.

Pop brought home some aviation magazine that just happened to be a special issue or something that Dealt with totally unknown Alien craft...

I~16
Pe~2
B~26
Ki~43
Yak~9
Me-210/410
Faery Battle http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
Westland Lysander
Vought KingFisher(tm)
among others I think...

I got Lucky. At a very early age I was Exposed to something other than P~51 Dora. To prevent social ostracism, I had to keep this desire to learn about Alien aircraft a closely guarded Secret.

VW-IceFire
07-17-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Antti - I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say but the Ju-88 is supposed to be coming along soon.

The cockpit can be seen here:
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/de/screenshots.php

S! all,
Well i think he is speaking for many silance bomber fans.
We just like to see more flyable bombers in this game not flyable jets or prototype`s.
This is a WW2 sim not a luft 46 or Waht if sim.
We got many fighters flyable buht not many bombers.
For online campains we are not able to make it historical correct wiht the bomber force.
B-25 for the fins?
HE111H2/6 for the Germans in 1944?
Betty for the Dutch/French /polska early war , west front?
IL2T for carrier ops?
Were are the Do17`s/215/217`s , Ju88/188/288`s , Mossie`s , Pe2`s/PE3`s , B26 , Wellington , Blenheims , Hampton`s , B-17`s , TU2`s , Martin B-10`s , etc etc.
Its make me made , becose i cant try to bilt cockpits for it and see year after year how more fighters make it flyable buht not many bombers.
Thnx
S! all
I/KG26_Oranje </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough...I like bombers too and I enjoy flying them from time to time. Although I'm more of a fighter-bomber mud mover myself, the level bombers and attack bombers are always interesting.

We presently have quite a few actually.

The A-20G, the B-25J, the He-111, the G4M Betty (which is a delight to fly provided nobody shoots you) and if you include attack aircraft the IL-2 (in all five bajillion variants) and Bf-110 factor in nicely as well.

I'm crossing my fingers for the Mosqutio VI and the Pe-2. Maybe...just maybe. And the Ju-88 seems to have a decent chance of making an appearance.

SO..."why Oleg why" aren't there more bombers when infact there are a good number (I didn't even mention the TB-3) of them considering the larger workload required to get them to operate (multi station bombers, as Oleg explained, are much more difficult and complicated than any group of fighters).

I'm all for more...but lets be realistic. There are more bombers in this game, flyable, than any other WWII sim that I can think of anywhere.

No we don't have the famous B-17 or any of the other four engined heavy bombers, but the dynamics of the game also don't really lend themselves to having them...so there have to be tradeoffs somewhere.

LEXX_Luthor
07-17-2005, 06:22 PM
IceFire::
SO..."why Oleg why" aren't there more bombers when infact there are a good number
No, the FB/PF sim is fatally Crippled with respect to flyable bombers. This is me talking here now. IceFire, your admitted attraction to (1944http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) Dogfighter-bombers may excessively colour your postings. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However...

KG26::
We just like to see more flyable bombers in this game not flyable jets or prototype`s.
This is <span class="ev_code_yellow">Myth #1</span>. Count the number of Flyble Jets (and propeller prototypes) and compare with the vastly greater number of Dogfighter planes -- so its not Jets or Prototypes taking away our bombers. So, if its not the Jets and Protos, what is causing the lack of Flyable bombers?

Tooz::
But the lack of bombers is what happens when you let self interested 3rd party modellers model whatever aircraft they feel like...
This is <span class="ev_code_yellow">Myth #2</span>. We can count all the 3rd Party bomber cockpits that were started but abandoned. This is a HUGE number of bomber cockpits that interested 3rd Party modders. Maybe 5% of the bomber cockpits started by 3rd Party modders made it into the sim. I would guess about 30% of 3rd Party dogfighter cockpits started made it into the sim. Why?

Tooz::
But then you also have to consider that building cockpits for bombers can be 3-4 times as time consuming, or more than building a single seat fighter because all of the stations must be modelled, and some of the stations can be as complex as the main cockpit itself.
Tooz got it! The artificial requirements for crew station modding discourage the creation of Flyable bombers.

ElAurens
07-17-2005, 06:30 PM
Blenheims and BR 20s are both necessary for any CBI theater scenarios.

The British had Blenheims at Rangoon, and I assume elswhere in Burma, and the Japanese had a number of FIAT BR 20s which were used in China.

p1ngu666
07-17-2005, 06:33 PM
i wouldnt class the a20g as a bomber, its a attack aircraft, u cant level bomb in a a20G http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

shame we dont have glassnose mossie, with oboe.

imagine being on say warclouds, and out of the overcast it rains cookies onto your airbase
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

KG26_Oranje
07-18-2005, 01:44 PM
KG26::
quote:
We just like to see more flyable bombers in this game not flyable jets or prototype`s.

This is Myth #1. Count the number of Flyble Jets (and propeller prototypes) and compare with the vastly greater number of Dogfighter planes -- so its not Jets or Prototypes taking away our bombers. So, if its not the Jets and Protos, what is causing the lack of Flyable bombers?

S! Lexx,

Sorry bro if u mis understaind me.
Thats not waht i mean.
For us KG26 and friends , we dont fly prototype`s like the 109Z or YP80.
We like to fly historical based coops.
And for my SQD its the Bomber and as Axis SQD we have only one level bomber and one dive bomber.
He111 and JU87.
That restrict us to early / mid war coops.
and in only two models :-(
Now we adjust it by using the A-20 , B-25 , and buefighter on the red side.
Buht face it a KG26 member in a Allied bomber? lol.
For compleet historical based game`s we need just more models.
And yes i know al to well its eating ure time if u try to bild the cockpit and plane model.
Buht one model i dont understaind way it is never made flyable.
The HS126 , two engine`s buht no gunner turreds or glase nose , only a cockpit.
There is info available for that model if u ask the Luftwaffe/airplane-museum in Koblenz-germanie.
And there are more model in il2 that dont need so many work as a pure bomber.
And we dont mind if we dont get a turret position like the IL2 Field mod!!!!!!.

There is a great support for Getting bombers flyable buht the ball is wiht the bilders and oleg.
We are depanding on u all.
U doing a Great job.
Buht if u got the info for a 109Z or ahter prototype`s to make it flyable in il2 , than it is not hard to start working on a flyable mossie or hs126 or me210/410 or or or pffff i keep dreaming lol.

Ok i close it now.
Dont forget Lexx i respackt all the hard work u all do for us players.
And i love this Sim.
I only hope for BOB that the bomber force is behter available than we had in il2.

S! I/KG26_Oranje

Aaron_GT
07-18-2005, 04:18 PM
A Hampden would be nice. Ideally one of the ones with twin guns in dorsal and ventral positions - just 4 machine guns would be suicide! Not much chance of getting one, of course.

Aaron_GT
07-18-2005, 04:19 PM
imagine being on say warclouds, and out of the overcast it rains cookies onto your airbase

Nice - especially if it was a B.XVI - 408mph fully loaded, 419mph as soon as it drops the cookie.

Gremlin181
07-18-2005, 04:26 PM
Just a thought but when bob comes out some of these aircraft may be modeled.
Bleneim and perhaps Beaufort Hamdon Fairy Battle maybe even a Defiant.

Well what I was thinking was since they will be modeled anyway would it be a whole lot of work to add them to IL2.

Or maybe bob is just the start of a whole new series.

Kernow
07-22-2005, 04:52 PM
I get worried when people say things like, 'I hope the He-111, Ju-88 and Do-17 will be flyable in BoB.' Is there doubt about that? Not going to be much of a BoB sim if they ain't flyable. Those 3 are the absolute minimum and the Blenhein really ought to be in the 'essential' list too.