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View Full Version : Avoiding head ons in QMB ?



Saburo_0
02-03-2005, 04:52 PM
I'd like some tips on avoiding getting nailed by that first head on pass in QMB. Find it a bit of a drag.

Thank You in advance,

Saburo_0
02-03-2005, 04:52 PM
I'd like some tips on avoiding getting nailed by that first head on pass in QMB. Find it a bit of a drag.

Thank You in advance,

ImpStarDuece
02-03-2005, 04:58 PM
If i am in a plane with better climbing ability i will pull between 650-800m above initial altitude. Simultanously i will pull about 30-45 degrees of my original heading.

Once i have the enemy in sight (i play cockpit on, no icons offline) i will begin a slow turn in towards the enemy flight, firewall the throttle and begin a shallow dive. I will continue to dive and turn gently until i am almost back on my original course and altitude. The AI have usually been climbing all this time so are forced to nose down to track me.

Once i am about 700m-1km from the AI i will 'bunt' my plane downwards and begin a slow yawing barrel roll to make myself a hard target. Additionally i put myself some ten to fifteen degrees off the inital course. As the AI commit to the pass i contine the roll slightly faster and wider. Almost before they are on me (less than 100m) i will start to pull up in the roll. Once they are past me i then continue the pull up.

I then curve up and over in a resanoably gentle turning pull over. Not a straight loop or a hard turn but a balance between the two. The AI usually proceeds to do either a hard turn to follow me or a shallow climbing turn.

If you do it correctly you can come out of your turn some 800 m or higher above the AI, having forced them to waste E going nose down and trying to nail you. Then put your bird in a very shallow dive. Hopefuly you have enough speed to catch them in their turn or otherwise begin a serise of 'helix' climbing spirals and force them to come to you, putting you in a superior position.

Hope this helps, usually works for me in a P-47 vs 4 Ace 109s or 190s. I can usually down one at least in a tail chase pass less than 30-40 seconds sfter the head to head.

Chuck_Older
02-03-2005, 04:59 PM
Shoot better than the enemy

Seriously.

Set your resolution to 1024x768. It's what the sim is native to

Then, learn how to be a pretty good shot

You can easily make the enemy turn away (I'm playing 3.04m right now, but this has been true since FB came out in my experience) in a pure head-on- no climbs or turns

If you let him shoot first, you're probably a goner. Accuracy is key, but you will get that in time

Achilles97
02-03-2005, 05:01 PM
I usually just start shooting first - it makes the enemy concentrate on dodging the bullets instead of aiming at me. I'll start shooting at 800+ meters.

voyager_663rd
02-03-2005, 05:02 PM
Found that if you can even get one shot in them, they don't pursue. May not be true in all cases but it is in the ones I try. Also, the ace setting for AI in qmb certainly seems to be dumbed down a lot from the previous life. Used to be I was killed 9 out of 10 times in a/ against a yak 3 . Now it's the other way around. Go figger.

Atomic_Marten
02-03-2005, 05:06 PM
You can do like ImpStarDeuce says.

Also you can try to get slightly off course (not exact head on just let your a/c goes left or right from course), so you will pass by enemy fighters on some distance. Second thing, they will most likely try to force head on and to do so they must maintain direct collision course. You just go straight, and in shooting range pull down they will follow you; when they pass over you pull full up and stay that way untill you run outta energy.

If you manage to survive that (you *must* have energy fighter for this tactic), the rest of the fight is piece of cake even versus 4 ace boogies (LA7s Yak3s etc.) because of your energy advantage.

Just take not that they can hit you *only* in the first pass if you run outta energy too soon. Otherwise they must quit pursuit on considerably distance beneath you and therefore they are sitting ducks.(read:Powerless)

Then you go ahead practice your BnZ skills. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Happy hunting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PBNA-Boosher
02-03-2005, 05:43 PM
With a few MG hits, even in odd places, you can make the AI pull off. However, if you need to, neg. G maneuvers usually can throw off their aim. The best part is they also help bleed E, which means you can turn around faster, gain speed, and also have the maneuvering advantage in a D/F if you're in the right plane. In a plane where E is essential though, use a lot of rudder and wing over away from their guns.

SithSpeeder
02-03-2005, 09:56 PM
What ImpStarDeuce said. I use that move online and offline and almost never get hit. But against the AI, you do have to time it properly. In QMB, I usually will get some speed up first (over 330 kph), then start the gradual pull up at best climb speed. This usually gives me some altitude advantage, and when about 1.8 km out, I begin the descent, passing diagonally in front of them at about 0.7 km out, coming under and gently pulling up and over. In this way, you are moving in 3 dimensions, making it very difficult to be hit but still conserving E.

This move was taught to me by Ojisan_Alpha back in the CFS2 days.

YMMV.

* _54th_Speeder *

Saburo_0
02-04-2005, 01:48 PM
Guess I should add I've been flying the 41 Spit V against 190s & 109G-2s.

Not an E fighter per se, low roll rate, worse handling at high speed. Lose too much speed/E and it's hard to catch up.

ImpStarDuece
02-04-2005, 10:30 PM
If your in a Spit V vs 109s try some horizontal turning with a little bit of vertical thrown in.

Set course to pass about a half kilometer either to the left or right of the incoming flight and begin to climb. Usually i placed them just infront of the port cockpit bar. Climb and force the 109s to turn into you, trying to come around from behind.. Dont allow them a straight on shot but keep them at about a 60 degree angle off your nose. This forces the AI to turn hard in and up as you begin to pass them, usually bleeding significant E and slowing down.

As the AI continues to turn hard, begin a dive. Hopefully you have forced them into a situation where they are energy deficit. Keep up the dive and turn hard into the 109s, rolling down and into them. This will usually present you with a snapshot of the leaders wing man when the 109s straightens out to avoid the situation being reversed. Push though the shot and then go vertical, curling up and over on your back. You should have a significant height advantage over the 109s now but limited speed. Straighten out and acclerate flat out, diving shallowly and building up as much speed as you can for as little altitude loss as possible. If you missed the wingman on the initial pass he should be below you and probably curning round to follow his lead who usually attempts to go head to head with you again. I typically get a second shot at the wing man before the lead bears down on me or the other wing pair (who usually exten, gain alt and come back at you) arrive.

After this its up to you but against the AI you can pretty much predict the first 30-45 seconds of the combat before too many variables start to get thrown in and unpredictable stuff starts to occur.



AS the start

Saburo_0
02-04-2005, 10:50 PM
Grat advice & description Thanks!!

ronison
02-05-2005, 12:40 AM
All the above will work but I read once something that I use and it works Great. This is more for that Oh S### situation where you find yourself in that head on you were not expecting.

Quite awhile ago when Aces over the Pacific was still a new game I read some advice written by a P-47 pilot. <I cant remeber where this was but it was good advice>.

Basicly when you get into a head on with an enemy pilot bank with your plane with your alerons one direction while at the same time apply oppisit rudder. This will put your plane into a skid. What it does to the oposing pilot is make them think you will be in one spot where in fact you will be in another. If say you bank right and rudder left your plane will skid more or less straight, depending on how much bank you have. The enemy will lead your plane as if you have your rudder set for a right bank which you wont and he will over lead your plane. With alittle practice you will be able to skid and lead the enemy plane and score hits without normaly taking any yourself.

Another side effect with this is as soon as you have landed a few hits you can roll to your rudder and easily avoid a head on collision with the oposing plane.

Though I have had limited experience using this tactic in IL2 it worked great in AoP and has seemed to work well here.

ImpStarDuece
02-05-2005, 03:48 AM
On the subject of using side slipping to avoid gunfire. Can anyone remember the name of the allied Battle of Britain pilot who had a permement rudder deflection on his Hurricane? It was something like 15degrees off center! I seem to remember him claiming that he was continually sideslipping in flight, not actually flying straight, and that this would always throw off the aim of anyone who was on his six. Apparently it looked like he was going to be in one place when in actuality he was moving along a different course

ploughman
02-05-2005, 03:56 AM
Bob Doe?

chaikanut
02-05-2005, 06:06 AM
I set up a QMB headon in a La5-fn against two FW-190 veterans. One of them would often gain altitude and try nailing me from above and the other would go for it from the same altitude and a slightly different direction. I always go for the one higher up since he presents the greatest danger both initially and after the pass (greater E).

Saburo_0
02-05-2005, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
On the subject of using side slipping to avoid gunfire. Can anyone remember the name of the allied Battle of Britain pilot who had a permement rudder deflection on his Hurricane? It was something like 15degrees off center! I seem to remember him claiming that he was continually sideslipping in flight, not actually flying straight, and that this would always throw off the aim of anyone who was on his six. Apparently it looked like he was going to be in one place when in actuality he was moving along a different course <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter Brothers is one pilots using that technique. From Mike Spicks Allied Fighter Aces. Just read an account in Spitfire: The Canadians of another fellow using it. I kinda question how good an idea it is tho. Crabbing means you're losing E and flying inefficiently. Will it really make the other guy miss ?