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Riggsie15
09-23-2005, 01:34 AM
In know the radiator cools the engine but what is the advantege of haveing the flaps closed.

megalagon
09-23-2005, 01:47 AM
Less drag on the plane (in real life that is).
Don't know if it really does in the game. Thats one of those point of view questions. Some people say it does, others say it doesn't. I don't notice it myself.

cueceleches
09-23-2005, 01:50 AM
It does, it does in the game. With them closed, you get a few extra kmh.

Riggsie15
09-23-2005, 01:53 AM
So do you have it open all the time or do you regulate it. Say half open when crusing and fully open when the engine is working at 100%.

L33T-Zoolander
09-23-2005, 02:30 AM
Online and with P&W engines, closing the flaps reduces drag. On the other hand, opening the flaps increases drag, but does not affect cooling.

Strange, but true. I miss flyin' the beer cans, but their engines kill themselves. The FM2 is about as useful as tits on a bull :-/

Good Hunting
Zoo

Fighterduck
09-23-2005, 02:33 AM
they are full closed when engine is at 100%..and they will open gradually with less throttle.

megalagon
09-23-2005, 02:40 AM
Now keep in mind I'm an A-20 driver. So I have a limited view on the other aircraft in this game, but I regulate my cowl flaps.
Normally I open my cowl flaps to setting 2 on take off, once at altitude I'll close them.
Now when I'm over the target I'll open them again to setting 2 or maybe setting 4 (depends how I use the throttle), make my attack(s), and head for home closing the flaps once I'm at altitude.
The only time I open the cowl flaps past setting 4 is when I have the throttles firewalled and running for my life (enemy fighters will do that).

jds1978
09-23-2005, 02:55 AM
each plane seems different...corsair's run hot so you should consider keeping the radiator open when not in combat...P38's stay cool, so max out the engine and enjoy! P51's have a pretty decent cooling system

Vacillator
09-23-2005, 03:00 AM
Although known as radiator flaps in game, they are more correctly called cowl flaps as they are the flaps on the engine cowlings. That's my understanding.

Closed gives less drag but does not allow as much air to flow over the engine (inside the cowls /covers), so you get less cooling leading to quicker overheat. The more you open the flaps, the more air you let in and the greater the cooling you get, but at the expense of increased drag.

In practice if you are overheating, reduce throttle and open flaps if you can. Of course if you have someone on your tail and you're trying to run then we are talking compromise time as both of these actions will slow you down!

This works in game, but I'm assuming Complex Engine Management is on in difficulty (although it may work anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

Kernow
09-23-2005, 03:16 AM
Yes, in general, the radiator flaps do increase cooling and do increase drag.

High speed = more cooling airflow
Low speed = less cooling airflow
High power = high heat production
Low power = less heat production

High speed = more drag from open flaps
Low speed = less drag from open flaps

High altitude / winter = colder cooling air

At high power settings and low speed, eg in a climb, flaps should be open (some aircraft don't need it, however - SBD for one I think). Little reason not to open them, as with low speed the energy lost through extra drag is minimized. Most (all?) pilot manuals you read will say to take-off & climb with the flaps open.

Cruising at altitude at 60-80% you can get away with flaps closed for min drag. I used to use 2, but closed is fine. I think 90% prop/throttle equates to max continuous power in most cases and most ac will manage that with the flaps closed also - might overheat in a climb. In the A-20 I take-off at 100s & climb at 90s both with rad open; level off & cruise at 70-80s (prop/throttle matched) with flaps closed; enter target area and attack at 90s flaps still closed; and if I get attacked by fighters I go to 110/100%, which will cause an overheat after a while, when I open the flaps. Can't recall, off the top of my head, if that causes an instant 'engine normal' in the A-20, but in some ac it does. The flaps do have an effect - at least in many ac.

73GIAP_Milan
09-23-2005, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by jds1978:
each plane seems different...corsair's run hot so you should consider keeping the radiator open when not in combat...P38's stay cool, so max out the engine and enjoy! P51's have a pretty decent cooling system

I have to correct you here my friend..
I am flying the Corsair alot and i can run the engine at 90-95-99% power almost continuously without overheating. Once it eventually does overheat, all i do is open the cowlflaps to the 4-6 or 8 position, depending on the situation and it cools off quite rapidly and i can floor the throttle again.
It only overheats fast above 100% power and with Water Injection engaged..

I am not a guy who pushes an engine into destruction easily i think. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jds1978
09-23-2005, 12:29 PM
I have to correct you here my friend..
I am flying the Corsair alot and i can run the engine at 90-95-99% power almost continuously without overheating. Once it eventually does overheat, all i do is open the cowlflaps to the 4-6 or 8 position, depending on the situation and it cools off quite rapidly and i can floor the throttle again.
It only overheats fast above 100% power and with Water Injection engaged..

I am not a guy who pushes an engine into destruction easily i think.

Salute and Regards,

really? i must be doing something wrong. i tend to either fly P51D, F4U-D, P38L, or P40B and have found the Corsair to be tempermental in regards to engine cooling. I never cruise above 90% engine power and only use the 110% power setting when i'm in trouble with enemies.

maybe it has something to do with my prop settings

Grey_Mouser67
09-23-2005, 04:00 PM
As a rule of thumb, I've found most aircraft to be 20km/hr slower with radiators/cowl flaps open than closed...some 30km/hr.

Keep in mind there is a bug...Wildcat, Corsair, Hellcat, Jug and maybe even A-20, B-25 and Beau...haven't tested them yet...but the cowl flaps do not increase cooling on those aircraft...so fly with your radiators closed and manage your engine heat.

In addition to this, many fighters like a Jug and Fw can run about 13 minutes in overheat before doing engine damage...not all are the same though so watch it.

If you are wondering whether the bug affects your favorite aircraft just go to QMB, fly at sea level and record time till overheat with rad open then repeat with rad closed...there should be a substantial difference in the amount of time...methinks you will not see a difference if you fly a plane with a Pratt&Whitney engine.

This bug has been pointed out to Oleg...we'll have to wait and see if he is interested in correcting this error.

P-38_Lightning
09-23-2005, 04:19 PM
I would like to have the torpedo option.

73GIAP_Milan
09-23-2005, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by jds1978:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have to correct you here my friend..
I am flying the Corsair alot and i can run the engine at 90-95-99% power almost continuously without overheating. Once it eventually does overheat, all i do is open the cowlflaps to the 4-6 or 8 position, depending on the situation and it cools off quite rapidly and i can floor the throttle again.
It only overheats fast above 100% power and with Water Injection engaged..

I am not a guy who pushes an engine into destruction easily i think.

Salute and Regards,

really? i must be doing something wrong. i tend to either fly P51D, F4U-D, P38L, or P40B and have found the Corsair to be tempermental in regards to engine cooling. I never cruise above 90% engine power and only use the 110% power setting when i'm in trouble with enemies.

maybe it has something to do with my prop settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the F4U1A i'm flying i use 100% pitch for most of the time, only when flying in formation with the AI, I tend to switch back to 60% or 80% pitch and lower power settings..
If the Corsair does overheat after a period of 99% Power or above, i find that lowering power to 88% plus Radiator at 6-8 or OPEN setting cools quick enough. After that i switch it back to Closed or 2 and throttle up to 95% again.

Even when i am under attack i tend to stay below 100% power, only when i am really in desperate need for extra power, as in climbs or when i need to get out a hairy situation i apply 110% plus Wep/Water Injection etc.
Works fine for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't fly the P-51, P-38 or P-40, but in general, i have little trouble with overheating on any plane, except the spitfire and hurricane, those overheat a bit too fast on a bit too low throttlesetting for my likings.

FritzGryphon
09-24-2005, 04:11 AM
Like Grey Mouser said, cowl flap postion on F4U, P47, F6F and La-5FN have no effect on engine temperature, or time to breakdown. It's just placebo effect, and slows you down.

In others, like FW-190, Bf-109, Spitfire, opening the radiator flaps will allow you to use WEP for much longer.


Details here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m...281078153#8281078153 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/5691058153/r/8281078153#8281078153)

If you use UPDspeed, you can see the exact engine temperature values while you play. Good for training in heat management.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/updspeed.zip

Kernow
09-24-2005, 10:57 AM
What a good idea FritzGryphon. What else does it tell you? Never mind, I'll get it and see for myself.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

jeroen-79
09-24-2005, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Vacillator:
Although known as radiator flaps in game, they are more correctly called cowl flaps as they are the flaps on the engine cowlings. That's my understanding. That depends on the plane.

Liquid cooled engines have radiators and radiator flaps.
Aircooled engines have cowlflaps.

Tully__
09-25-2005, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Kernow:
Yes, in general, the radiator flaps do increase cooling and do increase drag.

High speed = more cooling airflow
Low speed = less cooling airflow
High power = high heat production
Low power = less heat production

High speed = more drag from open flaps
Low speed = less drag from open flaps

High altitude / winter = colder cooling air

At high power settings and low speed, eg in a climb, flaps should be open (some aircraft don't need it, however - SBD for one I think). Little reason not to open them, as with low speed the energy lost through extra drag is minimized. Most (all?) pilot manuals you read will say to take-off & climb with the flaps open.

Cruising at altitude at 60-80% you can get away with flaps closed for min drag. I used to use 2, but closed is fine. I think 90% prop/throttle equates to max continuous power in most cases and most ac will manage that with the flaps closed also - might overheat in a climb. In the A-20 I take-off at 100s & climb at 90s both with rad open; level off & cruise at 70-80s (prop/throttle matched) with flaps closed; enter target area and attack at 90s flaps still closed; and if I get attacked by fighters I go to 110/100%, which will cause an overheat after a while, when I open the flaps. Can't recall, off the top of my head, if that causes an instant 'engine normal' in the A-20, but in some ac it does. The flaps do have an effect - at least in many ac.

Nicely explained http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
09-25-2005, 09:47 AM
I just regulate the flaps and as others have said it depends on the plane.

Usually takeoff I do with full open radiator. I close them halfway for power climbs and re-open for cruise.

I close for combat except when I need to cool the engine off. But you want your engine cool when you enter combat so the more open they are getting there, the better.

Cloudy_
09-26-2005, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by megalagon:
Now keep in mind I'm an A-20 driver. So I have a limited view on the other aircraft in this game, but I regulate my cowl flaps.
Normally I open my cowl flaps to setting 2 on take off, once at altitude I'll close them.
Now when I'm over the target I'll open them again to setting 2 or maybe setting 4 (depends how I use the throttle), make my attack(s), and head for home closing the flaps once I'm at altitude.
The only time I open the cowl flaps past setting 4 is when I have the throttles firewalled and running for my life (enemy fighters will do that).

As an aside, the actual A-20G manual has this to say about cowl flaps:

"Startup: Upper & lower cowl flaps open"

"Take-off: Upper cowl flaps closed, lower cowl flaps open. Note:If upper cowl flaps are left open, take-off run will be increased and severe buffeting will be experienced."

"An indicated airspeed of 165 mph is suggested to obtain satisfactory cooling (under extreme heat conditions)." "Adjust lower cowl flaps-oil cooler flaps to obtain desired cylinder head and oil temperatures."

"Do not open the upper cowl flaps when taking off or during flight. If they are opened, buffeting will occur and the airplane becomes nose heavy."

"The cylinder head and oil temperatures should not exceed the maximum permissible. For continuous cruising level flight, maximum temperatures are as follows:
Cylinder head temperature
205C. (400F) Maximum. (level flight)
200C. (392F) Desired.
218C. (425F) Maximum (climb)
Oil Temperature
70C (150F)

And so on...

Iron_Hand1
09-28-2005, 01:21 PM
I have to correct you here my friend..
I am flying the Corsair alot and i can run the engine at 90-95-99% power almost continuously without overheating. Once it eventually does overheat, all i do is open the cowlflaps to the 4-6 or 8 position, depending on the situation and it cools off quite rapidly and i can floor the throttle again.
It only overheats fast above 100% power and with Water Injection engaged..

I am not a guy who pushes an engine into destruction easily i think.

Salute and Regards,


really? i must be doing something wrong. i tend to either fly P51D, F4U-D, P38L, or P40B and have found the Corsair to be tempermental in regards to engine cooling. I never cruise above 90% engine power and only use the 110% power setting when i'm in trouble with enemies.


I've noticed that 73GIAP_Milan is correct in this, but there is one other thing here that matters a lot here too and that is the speed of the plane. If I am running above 320kmh his statement is 100% correct for me in the F4u (and most other U.S. aircraft). Below this speed however I cannot run in the 90% throttle range long before it starts warming up for me with cowl flaps closed.

S~

Fo4thid
07-27-2006, 07:15 AM
I fly the B-25 online every day the cowl flaps do work do increase drag and I cant find all of the locations on the template can anyone show me were all the cowlflaps are located on the b25?

Crash_Moses
07-27-2006, 08:33 AM
Circled in red, lad.

When do you fly? You should stop by the PacificConflict server sometime. Need some more real pilots. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/PBJ1-JMB9-VBM611.jpg