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Bearcat99
09-05-2004, 08:10 AM
First off this isnot the typical Full Real pro or con post so put your eyebals back down... LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Well yesterday I took my son up on a demo flight at my local airport (Manassas Airport) at a place called Dulles Aviation. That experience was great although much to my dismay I actually got nauseous. It seems the older I get the weaker my stomach gets, which has made me rethink my PPL plans a tad.. One thing the experience fully convinced my of though, is that the term "Full Real" is an absolute total misnomer that needs to be done away with. There is no way this or any other sim can even come close to the realism we crave or some of us think we are flying. Therefore I will call the settings formerly known as Full Real Full Immersion from now on. To me that's far more accurate since although the settings are no where near realistic in the bigger scheme of things they do indeed add immensely to the immersion factor while flying the sim. I was amazed at the feeling of flying in a non commercial setting. When I took the controls my self and saw how responsive the plane was, how each and every touch yielded some kind of response that I felt on my body, how just the feeling of craning my neck around to find the runway (not like the 45-60 degree motion of TIR), seeing the other aircraft, the landing bump, the sound of the wheels rolling on the ground and the absence of the vibration when they lift off... all that.. makes me feel the term Full Real is just innaccurate and inadequate to describe what is actually happening.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

Bearcat99
09-05-2004, 08:10 AM
First off this isnot the typical Full Real pro or con post so put your eyebals back down... LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Well yesterday I took my son up on a demo flight at my local airport (Manassas Airport) at a place called Dulles Aviation. That experience was great although much to my dismay I actually got nauseous. It seems the older I get the weaker my stomach gets, which has made me rethink my PPL plans a tad.. One thing the experience fully convinced my of though, is that the term "Full Real" is an absolute total misnomer that needs to be done away with. There is no way this or any other sim can even come close to the realism we crave or some of us think we are flying. Therefore I will call the settings formerly known as Full Real Full Immersion from now on. To me that's far more accurate since although the settings are no where near realistic in the bigger scheme of things they do indeed add immensely to the immersion factor while flying the sim. I was amazed at the feeling of flying in a non commercial setting. When I took the controls my self and saw how responsive the plane was, how each and every touch yielded some kind of response that I felt on my body, how just the feeling of craning my neck around to find the runway (not like the 45-60 degree motion of TIR), seeing the other aircraft, the landing bump, the sound of the wheels rolling on the ground and the absence of the vibration when they lift off... all that.. makes me feel the term Full Real is just innaccurate and inadequate to describe what is actually happening.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

Extreme_One
09-05-2004, 08:19 AM
I know where you're coming from.
Actually I prefer the term full difficulty but the sentiment remains the same.

Real in FB ain't nowt like Real in RL.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''

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MPortus_
09-05-2004, 08:44 AM
Actually I'd stick to the good ol' Full Real.

Full Real not because it's real, of course it's not, it's a sim.

It's Full real because it forces you to fly in a realistic way. Only in FR you can experience the same situations you read on the books. Loose your foe, split S dive to the clouds and scape, unexpected bounces, importance of SA... it makes you fly different, as you have to keep your foe in sight, makes you do your maneuvers accordingly.

That's why it's FR to me. Not full immersion not full difficulty please, although indeed it's more immersive and difficult, but thats not the main point.

F19_Ob
09-05-2004, 09:03 AM
Ahhh yes......... nothing is like real flight.
I even puke when riding a rockingchair. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Owlsphone
09-05-2004, 09:08 AM
Bearcat, that's exactly what I thought when I started my PPL. However nonsensical the term "full real" is, I think the term is stuck in this community. What ever happened to the term "full switch"?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Flyby_99
09-05-2004, 09:10 AM
Hey CO,
I too think the term full difficulty is more appropriate. I also agree flying in this mod adds to the immersion factor in this 2d environment. Certainly it lends to the pucker factor of not seeing the one that gets you. I prefere this mode. In RL sometimes pilots flew missions and saw no enemy planes. Sometimes an enemy plane could be stalked and dispatched with no fuss. Sometimes swirling dogfights. One never knew for sure. Call it the "Gump" factor. Hey how about calling full real "Full Gump"? Anyway, I think to get the most out of the sim one needs to go this route. Anything else is sim-lite, less filling, less thrilling. That's what living and dying in the virtual skies is all about.
Flyby out

my gun convergence is set to harmonize on your @ss, so hold very still. this won't hurt long!

Red_Russian13
09-05-2004, 09:20 AM
I've never liked the term "Full Real". I never understood why people insisted upon using it, but many did, do, and always will.

I prefer the term "Full Difficulty". "Full Immersion" also satisfies. And in a bizare sort of way, Flyby_99s "Full Gump" is rather interesting!

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

arcadeace
09-05-2004, 09:29 AM
I think this topic reflects a sorry state this forum arrived at months ago when numerous members (many times including you Bear) had nothing but egotistical fun riding an ace white horse looking down on many of us who didn't 'fly' according to the same difficulty settings.

Others have since started threads and stated pretty much what you have here and if it hasn't been understood it well should be by now. Its difficulty settings: when more 'immersion' is added more limitations increase and after a certain point it begins to get less realistic and too restrictive. There's a level of compromise many have more or less agreed upon in a number of discussions with relatively minor variation.

I think if members who have been here long enough don't realize by now this sim is nothing like flying in a real a/c they may be slightly mentally ill suffering from a delusional fantasy and shouldn't be playing this combat sim.

crazyivan1970
09-05-2004, 09:36 AM
Come on ace, don`t jump into conclusions... he just asked the question http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I preffer full difficulty, as long as minimap is present, could care less for anything else. Does it make me FR snob? Nawww, just a personal preference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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Tully__
09-05-2004, 10:02 AM
I'll fly just about any settings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I see it as a real shame that people get so uptight about one or another set of settings, they all have something to offer.

=================================================


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Salut
Tully

arcadeace
09-05-2004, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Come on ace, don`t jump into conclusions... he just asked the question http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I preffer full difficulty, as long as minimap is present, could care less for anything else. Does it make me FR snob? Nawww, just a personal preference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the only 'conclusion' I've really come to is my final paragraph http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif That wasn't referring to Bear.

But I am questioning why the question, again? Haven't we finally been enlightened?

Arcadeace is no longer a WW guy, I'm full cockpit. But 'full real' is bull real and for the birds (nothing personal to those who do enjoy the limitations).

End of story.

DuxCorvan
09-05-2004, 10:19 AM
I always play 'Full fun', independently of what setting I'm using. And everybody should, because that's why every setting exist -to satisfy every player expectation, and if you don't get entertained, why play?

'Full real' is a chimera. 2D viewing a square screen in a room can never match a real situation. And sometimes I feel that actual flying is easier than sim 'FR' flying... sims lack 'situation awareness'...

LuckyBoy1
09-05-2004, 10:32 AM
BearDude! God bless you for taking your kid up!!! Here's some tips for beating the greenies!

Take two suphedrin pills per adult and 1 per child 1 hour before flight time.

Take half a dramamine pill for adults and 1/4 for children above 8 years old and 1/8 for 4-8 but on that last crowd, consult you physician! Take it 1 hour before flight in case it makes you too sleepy and it can!

Try and like, fly the plane, it helps with the sickness a great deal.

Of coarse you already know to look out of the plane at all times and to the horizon when possible.

Fly in the early morning, like at dawn. after 10:00 A.M. the air is rising and boiling up too much for a truly clean flight.

Rent a slightly bigger plane. A Cessna Cardinal 182 flys much smoother than a 150 and stay out of Piper Cubs until you develope those iron guts that will come believe it or not, in just a few flights.



Again, God bless you and keep the faith baby! Oh yeah, keep the faith with the real flying as well and don't worry about the PC game too much, it will become less and less important over time!

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/tech_lbguide.htm#001%20Security%20Issues

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

609IAP_Recon
09-05-2004, 10:38 AM
The people who fly full real do so because:

1. they don't like shiny icons
2. they don't like wonder women views
3. they enjoy flying inside the aircraft
4. they enjoy tracking bandits without green triangles
5. they enjoy using the map and ground to find their way without GPS systems
6. they enjoy learning more about CEM and wish it was even better
7. they want only the amount of ammo they should have in the appropriate aircraft they fly in.
etc..

It's fun that way!- so, yes, to full real pilots, full real = full fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

No one who plays full real ever considers it realistic - but then again no where in real life did you ever have icons, externals, no cockpit, gps - right?

Do full real pilots get frustrated when they lose their aircraft in the trees or the dark blue upper atmosphere (lol)? yep.

I think we all love the realistic parts of this - mostly to try to simulate the sense of flying. I hope sims can continue to evolve and continue to try to simulate that feeling. It's many times articial - so developers have to get creative - I'd like to see more 'physical' effects involved, it would take some creative thinking though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good post - that is a great experience!

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

Kartveli
09-05-2004, 10:50 AM
Too bad about your sickness, Bear....So I've heard, this can be common in small types...sometimes it never leaves one, sometimes it just goes away....try a few more flights before you decide not to go for PPL, 'twould be a shame for one bad experience to dissaude you

Not to pull this thread into a tangent, but I would like to know if perhaps now you would care to comment on just how "arcade" the WW view flying in FB is vs cockpit on considering your real-life flight now...

Some have said the WW view is actually more realistic, what with the 2D limitiations of a cockpit on in FB, compared to the real thing...ant thoughts?

TAGERT.
09-05-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HxPrey:
Actually I'd stick to the good ol' Full Real.

Full Real not because it's real, of course it's not, it's a sim.

It's Full real because it forces you to fly _in a realistic way_. Only in FR you can experience the same situations you read on the books. Loose your foe, split S dive to the clouds and scape, unexpected bounces, importance of SA... it makes you fly different, as you have to keep your foe in sight, makes you do your maneuvers accordingly.

That's why it's FR to me. Not full immersion not full difficulty please, although indeed it's more immersive and difficult, but thats not the main point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This guy hit it right on the nose!!! I think everyone knows a simulation of anything is not real.. The full real statement is in the settings section.. Thus it is generally understood to refer to the SETTINGS! Anyone that confuses it to mean your really flying has bigger issues that renaming the option will not help! Simply put, full real means it is as real as it can be.. No shinny icons, no mini map, no modern help what so ever. But I don't care what they call it.. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet!

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

LEXX_Luthor
09-05-2004, 10:57 AM
Poor cockpit view is why pilots Whined for bubble canopies and was one reason they removed canopies (fear of getting trapped inside was another).

Oleg modded the Whining hysterically accurate.

How Oleg can model the Fear of getting trapped insice....mmm...you must open or jettison canopy before Ctrl+B but if Oleg can model some kind of rough canopy damage then you can't Bail.


Re~map Ctr+E to Ctrl+B this is not LOMAC


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2004, 11:46 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Hello,

This is a GAME !



Sensei.

willyvic
09-05-2004, 11:51 AM
Ya think someone who has been around for close to two years would have picked up on the fact that this game is nowhere near "real". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Nor is it full immersion or full difficulty or full switch, etc...

It is an entertainment package that lets us re-live, vicariously, the exploits of air combat past. We are free to fly it any way we choose and to enjoy ourselves as we see fit.

Yet we still beat the bones of this horse over and over again. Let it lay. It's done been reduced to dust.

WV.

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg

-HH- Beebop
09-05-2004, 12:11 PM
I've flown a few times and Bearcat is right, there is no comparison between this sim and the real 'Full Real'.
I'm just beginning to wean myself off icons/speedbar/minimap as I am currently flying the 'soon-to-be-released' IL-2T campaign, "Straight and True" made by my fellow squadmate Zeus-cat. It is quite the challenge, especially over water. It's also preparing me for Pacific Fighters.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Recon:
The people who fly full real do so because:

1. they don't like shiny icons
2. they don't like wonder women views
.......................................
4. they enjoy tracking bandits without green triangles
...........................................
No one who plays full real ever considers it realistic - but then again no where in real life did you ever have icons, externals, no cockpit, gps - right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These items are present for one reason and one reason alone, they compenstae for the lack of depth perception and the human eyes ability to see in great detail and long distances. I usually fly without these switches off but still will toggle on icons when I see an a/c in the distance long enough to do a IFF recognition. All to often I've been bounced my the enemy because I couldn't ID them in time. Maybe I jst need more practice as I've seen several posts that indicate I should be able to ID planes in enough time.
Just remember, this is the options Oleg put in becuawe he knew that new pilots would need the help and pilots with less than super-computers.

Oh, and on the topic of the thread, I've always liked "Full Switch" because it's "switches" that you set in the difficulty menu. But "Full Immersion" and "Full Diffculty" work for me.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9334/Image6.jpg
HellHounds Virtual Air Wing
"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..."
Pilot Officer John Gillespie Magee, Jr. No 412 squadron, RCAF Killed 11 December 1941

horseback
09-05-2004, 12:13 PM
I'm with willyvic on this-let's be kind to horses!

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

ZG77_Lignite
09-05-2004, 01:03 PM
Personally, I prefer to fly 'mashed potatos', but whats in a name? Here's some information from Microsoft Encarta:

reā·alā·isā·tic
adjective
1. practical: seeking what is achievable or possible, based on known facts
'set realistic goals when looking for a new job'

2. simulating reality: simulating real things or imaginary things in a way that seems real
'computer games with realistic graphics'

3. reasonable: not priced or valued too low or high

4. arts literature representing real life: in the arts and literature, representing life as it really is, rather than an idealized picture of it

5. philosophy relating to philosophical realism: relating to philosophical theories of realism

Just because some people have a problem typing the extra 5 letters in the word Realistic does not mean they think playing a computer game is 'real'. People should feel free to call it whatever they want, I'm going to stick with 'mashed potatoes', thank you very much.

DuxCorvan
09-05-2004, 01:16 PM
Anyway, it's neither the word 'realistic' nor 'real' what is inaccurate, but the word 'full'. The problem is that the only 'full real' thing is reality itself -and even so, Plato could have something to tell about... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
09-05-2004, 04:05 PM
Hmmmm

'if I am gona get flamed for a word my word is POONTANG'

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http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Bearcat99
09-05-2004, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
I think this topic reflects a sorry state this forum arrived at months ago when numerous members (many times including you Bear) had nothing but egotistical fun riding an ace white horse looking down on many of us who didn't 'fly' according to the same difficulty settings.

Others have since started threads and stated pretty much what you have here and if it hasn't been understood it well should be by now. Its difficulty settings: when more 'immersion' is added more limitations increase and after a certain point it begins to get less realistic and too restrictive. There's a level of compromise many have more or less agreed upon in a number of discussions with relatively minor variation.

I think if members who have been here long enough don't realize by now this sim is nothing like flying in a real a/c they may be slightly mentally ill suffering from a delusional fantasy and shouldn't be playing this combat sim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. My philosophy is and akways has been you bought it fly it how you like. I also like externals.. so that takes me out of the usual FR crown anyway. IMO the sim is just to stunning graphically to NOT use the externals. But thats me.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

Bearcat99
09-05-2004, 05:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by willyvic:
Ya think someone who has been around for close to two years would have picked up on the fact that this game is nowhere near "real". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Nor is it full immersion or full difficulty or full switch, etc...

It is an entertainment package that lets us re-live, vicariously, the exploits of air combat past. We are free to fly it any way we choose and to enjoy ourselves as we see fit.

Yet we still beat the bones of this horse over and over again. Let it lay. It's done been reduced to dust.

WV.

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uhhhhhh Im just talking symantics here bub.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

FutureAce
09-05-2004, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
the absence of the vibration when they lift off...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Force feedback semi-solves that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

arcadeace
09-05-2004, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. My philosophy is and akways has been you bought it fly it how you like. I also like externals.. so that takes me out of the usual FR crown anyway. IMO the sim is just to stunning graphically to NOT use the externals. But thats me.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No mixup and no big deal. Glad to know that's your philosophy. This subject has been beaten to death ad nauseum. Lets let it die, hopefully for good.

IL2-chuter
09-05-2004, 08:41 PM
Hey, maybe if we show enough interest Oleg will do an authentic RollerCoaster sim! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I can't begin to fly a airplane IRL like I do in FB, I'd be clobbered senseless. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

BaldieJr
09-05-2004, 08:55 PM
http://www.fighterjerks.com/REAL.jpg

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
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http://www.fighterjerks.com

Bearcat99
09-05-2004, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
No mixup and no big deal. Glad to know that's your philosophy. This subject has been beaten to death ad nauseum. Lets let it die, hopefully for good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


As long as there are new people coming to this sim this will always come up from time to time. Get used to it.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

arcadeace
09-05-2004, 10:19 PM
I realy am with noobies, not with our most lovable old pro.

arcadeace
09-05-2004, 10:24 PM
Didn't mean to insult your mod status. How about you getting used to all the **** that follows... hey?

heywooood
09-05-2004, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Anyway, it's neither the word 'realistic' nor 'real' what is inaccurate, but the word 'full'. The problem is that the only 'full real' thing is reality itself -and even so, Plato could have something to tell about... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dux - thats the nail on the head..... and it is spelled "Playdough" ...knucklehead. Pffff.

what the he11 does brightly colored clay have to do with it, anyways? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"check your puns"

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
09-05-2004, 10:46 PM
WOOOH WOOOH

CHUFFACHUFFACHUFFACHUFFA

WOOH WOOH

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

wayno7777
09-05-2004, 11:50 PM
Bearcat, some of the most famous aces had airsickness problems. One that comes to mind right now was the Baron Von Richtofen. He fought a/s for quite a while while he was learning to fly. There were others I've read about but their names escape at the moment. So don't give up the dream! Good luck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

WTE_Galway
09-06-2004, 12:55 AM
a large percentage of people suffer some form of motion sickness in training

it may be the first flight, it might be the first time they stick a "hood" on you and you fly blind

or in my case when my instructor kept me in a 45 degree bank for 20 minutes trying to maintain altitude in the turn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

its all a matter of what you get used to .. 45 degree banks are now childs-play and 60 degree banks start to get fun .. but back then I literally felt like i was falling out of the aeroplane

one hint .. the best anti-motion sickness tablet I found was actually a natural one .. based on Ginger of all things .. worked wonders

BuzzU
09-06-2004, 12:58 AM
Full real is easier to type... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

Dammerung
09-06-2004, 01:07 AM
I threw up in the 152 the 3rd time I went up. Got Queasy the 4th. My instructor I think could tell I was a little dissapointed about it, and proceeded to tell one of his Fighter pilot stories, going back to UPT- One of his friends nearly washed out because of airsickness, he was one away from washing out, and he made it through. Went on to fly F-4s in the Thunderbirds. Just eat first and you'll be fine. Don't drink anything(Certainly not anything alcoholic).

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

BaldieJr
09-06-2004, 01:11 AM
I've heard that some people use this http://www.acesim.com/main.html to stay "current" when they can't afford to fly. They also say it will make you sick as hell if you've never flown.

Maybe its worth building for the ability to get over air sickness in a controlled environment?

It looks like fun. Click on "Ready Room" to see a few that have been built.

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

Fred_77
09-06-2004, 01:23 AM
Best way to avoid air sickness is to make sure you never fly on an empty stomach. On an empty stomach I can only manage a couple of spins before feeling queasy. If I eat something before a flight I can fly aerobatics for 30-45 minutes and still feel good. No matter how you feel before a flight, make sure you have something to eat, especially if you will encounter unusal attitudes during your flight.

As far as settings go, you should fly whatever settings you enjoy. Judging people be the settings they fly in a game is lame.

S!
Fred.

panther3485
09-06-2004, 07:15 AM
Hi guys!

Apart from the fact that we tend to differ in the settings we like to use, there is the problem that comes from interpretation of words.

I have also flown in real life and I have no objection to the expression 'Full Real' when talking about a home PC simulation game. Why? Because my interpretation of its meaning may be different from other people's. Allow me to explain.

I agree that immersion in the game is one of the most important factors for enjoyment. For me, this immersion is at its best when I actually begin to imagine I'm really out there doing it. But this does NOT mean I believe it's anything like reality. I just want to IMAGINE myself as a WW2 fighter pilot, so anything that helps my imagination is quite welcome.

I therefore choose setting that give me the best possible IMPRESSION of realism and, before I know it, hey presto! My imagination has taken off and for a while, I'm soaring and fighting!

I never delude myself that this is like reality. I just want to IMAGINE the reality and certain settings help me to do this. In the context I have outlined then, 'full real' for me simply means the settings that give me the optimum experience of IMAGINING what such a reality could be.

This is not to say that I think 'full real' is the best way to describe it. Perhaps it isn't given the amount of debate it generates. Perhaps 'full immersion' is better. Perhaps 'full switch' is better. But I don't really care, as long as I enjoy it.

You others also are free to enjoy as you please and call it what you please. After all, you forked out your hard-earned cash for the game, just like me, right?

Best regards to all,
panther3485

willyvic
09-06-2004, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Uhhhhhh Im just talking symantics here bub.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can call me WillyVic, or you can call me Willy. You can call me WV or you can call me V. Buy ya doesn't has to call me bub..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I took ur orignal post as an adrenaline induced piece of work. You had just recently come off your first flight in a small boy and was apparently impressed by it. I took the rest of the post as filler and your way of imparting your impression of Really Real vs Full Real.
My reply was tongue in cheek. I say, I say tongue and cheek son, tongue and cheek. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WV

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg

Rammjaeger
02-22-2006, 04:39 AM
One simple question about flying campaigns in full real:

Suppose you are sent on a ground attack mission. 'No map icons' is obviously switched on. You reach the destination but the target (column etc.) is not there (it happens often in my experience). What do you do? The target is usually on a road nearby. Do you start prowling the nearby roads flying at 3-400 m, looking for the target?

jds1978
02-22-2006, 05:01 AM
Full Real does sound a tad snobbish...

How did the term Full Switch become passe?

My Grandfather is a civilian pilot and he called IL2 fairly close in respects to physics and the geometric angles needed for certain things

SeaFireLIV
02-22-2006, 05:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
First off this isnot the typical Full Real pro or con post so put your eyebals back down... LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Well yesterday I took my son up on a demo flight at my local airport (Manassas Airport) at a place called Dulles Aviation. That experience was great although much to my dismay I actually got nauseous. It seems the older I get the weaker my stomach gets, which has made me rethink my PPL plans a tad.. One thing the experience fully convinced my of though, is that the term "Full Real" is an absolute total misnomer that needs to be done away with. There is no way this or any other sim can even come close to the realism we crave or some of us think we are flying. Therefore I will call the settings formerly known as Full Real Full Immersion from now on. To me that's far more accurate since although the settings are no where near realistic in the bigger scheme of things they do indeed add immensely to the immersion factor while flying the sim. I was amazed at the feeling of flying in a non commercial setting. When I took the controls my self and saw how responsive the plane was, how each and every touch yielded some kind of response that I felt on my body, how just the feeling of craning my neck around to find the runway (not like the 45-60 degree motion of TIR), seeing the other aircraft, the landing bump, the sound of the wheels rolling on the ground and the absence of the vibration when they lift off... all that.. makes me feel the term Full Real is just innaccurate and inadequate to describe what is actually happening.

IMMERSION BABY!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven`t read the whole thread, just this.

Well, I don`t think any of us really expect full real in a sim was full real to real life! I think the intention to full real in a sim is to say that it is as real as computer programmers can get it to be at the time of making. We`re not going to `feel` the bump of the wheels on the ground, the sway of the aircraft, the nausea of pulling `gs`.

I mean, come on, even if we had one of those hydraulic moving things with a 360 degree spatial cockpit, it still wouldn`t be full real.

Also full real isn`t full real in FB cos if you fail the mission and survive it won`t let you continue as you would in reality, so the `No Instant success` button has to be disabled for a start.

I think your term `FULL IMMERSION` is a very good one, and that`s one of the reasons I fly FB. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

jds1978
02-22-2006, 05:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rammjaeger:
One simple question about flying campaigns in full real:

Suppose you are sent on a ground attack mission. 'No map icons' is obviously switched on. You reach the destination but the target (column etc.) is not there (it happens often in my experience). What do you do? The target is usually on a road nearby. Do you start prowling the nearby roads flying at 3-400 m, looking for the target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

possibly...or better yet, wait for the flak to open up (hint: this means you are close to something worth bombing)
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

All this stuff (navigating w/o icons, using your compass, spoting the baddies, keeping track of friendlies, ID'ing your target....yadda yadda) just takes practice. Don't panic or get frustrated as that will ensure that you FUBAR the mission

if you like, check out our squadron as we fly strictly Full Switch

BTW: You should've seen my "performance" at last weeks SNATF.....it was a pre-dawn bomber mission with fighter escort....i got horribly lost somewhere over the Baltic Sea http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

willyvic
02-22-2006, 05:24 AM
Ummmmm, y'all might want to check the date on this here thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WV

SeaFireLIV
02-22-2006, 05:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
Ummmmm, y'all might want to check the date on this here thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blast! I always get caught out by this little trick! Who keeps looking up 2 year old threads then posting on it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

jds1978
02-22-2006, 05:33 AM
My guess would be Rammjaeger...however he was asking a question and this appears to be the thread to do it in. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

rnzoli
02-22-2006, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
Ummmmm, y'all might want to check the date on this here thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blast! I always get caught out by this little trick! Who keeps looking up 2 year old threads then posting on it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It can easily happen that someone finds a related thread, and instead of starting a new one, just puts his question into the thread (perhaps without noticing, how old the last post was?)

The new question related to full difficulty settings was from Rammjeager, and jds1978 actually tried to answer it in a helping manner.

Maybe you can also help with that question, read it and see. The first post in 2006.

SeaFireLIV
02-22-2006, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rammjaeger:
One simple question about flying campaigns in full real:

Suppose you are sent on a ground attack mission. 'No map icons' is obviously switched on. You reach the destination but the target (column etc.) is not there (it happens often in my experience). What do you do? The target is usually on a road nearby. Do you start prowling the nearby roads flying at 3-400 m, looking for the target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, then.

Yes, if the target isn`t there which i like, cos it`s realistic, i`ll prowl around the immediate area until enemy flak starts up as jds1978 said and check it out.

If enemy flak doesn`t give it away, you`ll have to get low and slow. Sometimes it`s possible to work out the logical direction of a traget depending on the battlefront. If it`s an enemy train, follow the track one way then the other, looking for that plume of smoke.

Alternatively, use TAB and ask control for `vecter to target`. He should redirect you.

Bearcat99
02-22-2006, 07:36 AM
Whoooo boy.. this is an old dog... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

han freak solo
02-22-2006, 07:40 AM
http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/jwss/bath2004/images/Devizes%20Caen%20Hill%20Locks%2009.jpg

panther3485
02-22-2006, 07:55 AM
Yeah! I was getting ready to post my 20 cents worth and then....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I realized I already had!

On Sep6 2004!!!!

I re-read my own post and, IMHO, I could not have improved upon it with the new one anyway!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Best regards,
panther3485

Rammjaeger
02-22-2006, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
Ummmmm, y'all might want to check the date on this here thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

WV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blast! I always get caught out by this little trick! Who keeps looking up 2 year old threads then posting on it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It can easily happen that someone finds a related thread, and instead of starting a new one, just puts his question into the thread </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I saw no need to start a new thread just to ask a question. God knows there are already tons of threads on this forum. Thanks for the replies anyway.

Xiolablu3
02-22-2006, 10:24 AM
WHats the view inside a real plane like compared to the game??

I always thought it would be far far better.

SeaFireLIV
02-22-2006, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHats the view inside a real plane like compared to the game??

I always thought it would be far far better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the view inside a real plane is similar to IL2/FB, I`ll puke. For a start, you`ll automatically have full head and body movement not to mention a good amount of views! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Treetop64
02-22-2006, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Whoooo boy.. this is an old dog... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha!

Hey, your old posts have been resurrecting at an alarming rate lately!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Flying_Buddha
02-22-2006, 12:52 PM
I agree with Bearcat. I have been lucky enough to fly in both a B25 and a B17. And I can tell you that while the sim is great fun and does have some realistic elements to it, in reality it feels very little like the real thing. If we had a VR headset it might be more realistic, you might get to feel your stomach drop as you hit and air pocket.

Still the game tho.

danjama
02-22-2006, 01:29 PM
i cant wait for my next lesson, nothing like the real thing even if it is just a cruddy C152 for now!

p-11.cAce
02-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Danjama listen to me on this one man - find a gliderport near you and take a few lessons. I know what you are thinking "DULL!" - but the flying is much more exciting and you will get more airtime for way less money - not to mention the fact that most gliders are aerobatic & you spend your time FLYING not just DRIVING around. Its nothing to grab a multi-hour flight off a $35 tow (which in itself is one of the biggest rushes in aviation -especially on a strong day!) where at the typical school $35 buys you 30 minutes or so in a crapped out 152.

Da_Godfatha
02-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Full-real is really a silly name. Full immersion is much better. The only problem with so-called Full-Whatever, is that you need a Super System to navigate.

Try to navigate with a FX5200 graphic card ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif Ya need a super GFX card for that! Too many landmarks you can't see ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

AFJ_Locust
02-22-2006, 04:37 PM
full difficulty

I Like the term Fullswitch

ARCHIE_CALVERT
02-22-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Tully

I'll fly just about any settings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I see it as a real shame that people get so uptight about one or another set of settings, they all have something to offer.

Same here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I use to go flying with a mate up at Lulsgate (Nr Bristol) when he was puting some hrs in. He once showed me the effect of positive and negative G on both the aircraft and its passengers... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif IL-2 Full Real, not in a million years... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

jds1978
02-22-2006, 05:05 PM
well of course you arn't going to get the physical sensation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

danjama
02-22-2006, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
Danjama listen to me on this one man - find a gliderport near you and take a few lessons. I know what you are thinking "DULL!" - but the flying is much more exciting and you will get more airtime for way less money - not to mention the fact that most gliders are aerobatic & you spend your time FLYING not just DRIVING around. Its nothing to grab a multi-hour flight off a $35 tow (which in itself is one of the biggest rushes in aviation -especially on a strong day!) where at the typical school $35 buys you 30 minutes or so in a crapped out 152. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ill think about it but part of my passion is in the engineering, the engines and what not, but i guess that isnt really related to todays crappy planes, only with the warbirds and planes of yesteryear

it might be time to give gliding a thought

Bearcat99
02-23-2006, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHats the view inside a real plane like compared to the game??

I always thought it would be far far better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even things like having periferal vision and seeing objects moving from the air.. it's just different. Id love to be able to get one of those hydraulic thingamabobs....