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View Full Version : Gutless Spitfires and weird ground physics..



Levethane
03-01-2005, 05:59 AM
Ok I'm going to rant. Theres only 2 things I find annoying in this sim.
One is the planes power. I was flying a 1941 Spitfire. Chasing a ME109 that had been Vultering around our airbase. 100% throttle at 1700meters, correct mixture flying straight and level the Spit could barely hit 420kph which is less than 260mph. The 1940 HE111 was good for 255mph. According to my Great Planes of WW2 Bible the 1941 Mk2 Spit was good for over 600kph at 4750 meters. Flying higher yes wih less fuel but I would expect the Spit in the game to hit at least 500kmh at a lower altitude.

My other whine is about the way planes fall over at anything over 20kph off the runway. My great Uncle was in the airforce in WW2 (RAAF). He flew Hurricanes, then Defiants, then after a bad car crash in 1940 became an instructor before his 21st birthday. He has played IL2 and PF a few times (rather poorly but..) he said in the Battle of Britain they used to take off from rough paddocks, they never used proper runways because the Germans were always bombing them. Why then has the IL2 team made it that planes bounce all over the place even at 20k and can tip over for the slighest bump when they are 'offroad'.
You can watch old videos of fighters taking off in the Battle of Britain on rough uncut fields with no problems. Also its hard online as they ban external views (good yes but for taxing on the ground...) making finding the camouflaged runways a very difficult task sometimes.
Hope they tone it down the phsyics a bit.

LeadSpitter_
03-01-2005, 10:28 AM
dont forget to use the IAS/TAS chart, yes this game seems to have no landing gear stability and weightlessness physics. For example look at glideslop paths with engine off.

I could be wrong but i think ways of tweaking fms they reduce weights of the planes for example the fw190.

Early versions of the game fb the plane was as stable as the p47 he111 il2 and stuka on and off runway which are still very stable ac on the ground. Now so many of the planes flop around so badly even at a quarter trottle spit 190 b239 f2a doesnt matter wide or narrow landing gear I think its the same reason why certain ac are called ufos and seem to sustain such highspeeds after stickyanking manuvers that would bleed almost all E off other ac in game.

For taxing when still use trottle rudder and hold the brake in, it suppost to simulate differential brakes but does not do it well.

MOhz
03-01-2005, 10:37 AM
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB

Levethane
03-01-2005, 04:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am quite dissapointed with the Pacific Fighters addon.
The BoB sequal will have to be real special to change my views. Seen as the engine could barely run with 20 planes in PF I don't think we are going to see the huge air battles that made up battle in BoB. Probably 12 HE111's and 7 Me109's will be the biggest it gets.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am quite dissapointed with the Pacific Fighters addon.
The BoB sequal will have to be real special to change my views. Seen as the engine could barely run with 20 planes in PF I don't think we are going to see the huge air battles that made up battle in BoB. Probably 12 HE111's and 7 Me109's will be the biggest it gets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have good news: BoB isn't going to have any compatibilty with the Il-2/FB/Pf series whatsoever.

It is a new sim with a different game engine- nothing to do with FB/PF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But truth be told, I can run a mission with 15 friendly AI and 40 enemy bombers just fine...my PC is not the best by a longshot

lbhskier37
03-01-2005, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am quite dissapointed with the Pacific Fighters addon.
The BoB sequal will have to be real special to change my views. Seen as the engine could barely run with 20 planes in PF I don't think we are going to see the huge air battles that made up battle in BoB. Probably 12 HE111's and 7 Me109's will be the biggest it gets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have a pretty sad system if you can barely run with 20 planes. Suggest looking at the minimum system requirements on the box before you start whining.

MOhz
03-01-2005, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am quite dissapointed with the Pacific Fighters addon.
The BoB sequal will have to be real special to change my views. Seen as the engine could barely run with 20 planes in PF I don't think we are going to see the huge air battles that made up battle in BoB. Probably 12 HE111's and 7 Me109's will be the biggest it gets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EVERYTHING is going to be better in BoB. FACT

Levethane
03-01-2005, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
Anyway everything is going to be better in BoB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am quite dissapointed with the Pacific Fighters addon.
The BoB sequal will have to be real special to change my views. Seen as the engine could barely run with 20 planes in PF I don't think we are going to see the huge air battles that made up battle in BoB. Probably 12 HE111's and 7 Me109's will be the biggest it gets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have a pretty sad system if you can barely run with 20 planes. Suggest looking at the minimum system requirements on the box before you start whining. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I have a 64bit AMD3000 with a 9800pro and 1gig. It was missions in PF like Pearl Harbour where there would be like 12-15 Japanese planes flying around trying to make it look the the wave of 100+ that orginally attacked.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 05:00 PM
Wow, you have trouble on that rig?

Maybe if you turn some of the graphics down a bit?

I can't beleive that my system which is about half as powerful as yours, works so much better...

I have always heard that the sim is native to 1024x768...maybe if you tried that?

Levethane
03-01-2005, 05:05 PM
No no, your missing my point.

The games designers included such tiny little missions.
I run PF at max detail (except water as I don't have a nVidia toaster in my pc) and it runs 30-100fps even in heavy action.
Find me a mission in PF where there are more than 30 planes involved at one time...

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 05:13 PM
Ah

lbhskier37
03-01-2005, 05:21 PM
I suggest you try DCG. It is a campaign generator that can replace the one in the game. It will generate some missions that are pretty packed with planes if you want it to.

sc1949
03-01-2005, 07:41 PM
Or try Uberdemons' UQMG (newest Version out yesterday), do tutorial and see difference in numbers he gives you.

VW-IceFire
03-01-2005, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
Ok I'm going to rant. Theres only 2 things I find annoying in this sim.
One is the planes power. I was flying a 1941 Spitfire. Chasing a ME109 that had been Vultering around our airbase. 100% throttle at 1700meters, correct mixture flying straight and level the Spit could barely hit 420kph which is less than 260mph. The 1940 HE111 was good for 255mph. According to my Great Planes of WW2 Bible the 1941 Mk2 Spit was good for over 600kph at 4750 meters. Flying higher yes wih less fuel but I would expect the Spit in the game to hit at least 500kmh at a lower altitude.

My other whine is about the way planes fall over at anything over 20kph off the runway. My great Uncle was in the airforce in WW2 (RAAF). He flew Hurricanes, then Defiants, then after a bad car crash in 1940 became an instructor before his 21st birthday. He has played IL2 and PF a few times (rather poorly but..) he said in the Battle of Britain they used to take off from rough paddocks, they never used proper runways because the Germans were always bombing them. Why then has the IL2 team made it that planes bounce all over the place even at 20k and can tip over for the slighest bump when they are 'offroad'.
You can watch old videos of fighters taking off in the Battle of Britain on rough uncut fields with no problems. Also its hard online as they ban external views (good yes but for taxing on the ground...) making finding the camouflaged runways a very difficult task sometimes.
Hope they tone it down the phsyics a bit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're making a common mistake. The guages and the speedbar (in the lower left) are displayed in IAS (indicated air speed) which is the aircrafts own measurements. The higher you go, the more lower the air pressure, the less speed recorded. But you are infact achieving a higher speed.

If settings are enabled, then pressing Ctrl-F1 will show you the virtual cockpit and speeds in TAS (true air speed).

TAS and IAS are equal at 0 meters and vastly different at 10,000 meters. For example, and this is a guestimate (not accurate)...if you're flying at 10,000 meters at 250kph IAS you may infact be flying at 600kph TAS.