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GAU-8
04-12-2006, 11:13 PM
i got my LARGE fresnel lens in today, so i figured id try to "effectively" demonstrate what this does for us flight simmers.

what it creates is a excellent field of depth perception. its not "3D" quite the same as "popping out" like the movies. but to a point, trick your mind enough..and yes it is 3D

if you are in doubt... go buy a "full page" magnifier at office depot, for about 7 dollars.

if you like the effect, and what you see . go to these guys!

http://www.3dlens.com/enter.html)

and order the "LARGE" lenses on thier site. i have the "330" lens (meaning FOCAL POINT of 330 millimeters) they have larger focal points up to 550 MM. these are not cheap (in quality) like the full page magnifiers at the local office supply. they are acryllic.. not PVC!

i did this one time before with the full page magnifier on a 15 inch momitor. it worked well. but i had to press my face against it (fresnel lens) to actually "see in" from the box.

today i now carry a 21 inch monitor, and luckily -3D LENS- carries the same size fresnel lens SLIGHTLY bigger than the vieable monitor area.

RICK LEE has an excellent site that goes about the properties of the fresnel lens pros and cons. *and esplains everything so much better than i can without going on and on..or the typos. you can find his site HERE

http://www.rickleephoto.com/rlcoll.htm


when properly set up and adjusted for YOU, you can still use TRACK-IR, and have a mesmorizing experience. since you are effectively looking THRU the monitor..rather than "at the monitor" 2 feet away.

now bear in mind, a camera does not operate like 2 good human eyeballs. so there are differences you see from the pics, compared to real life. (i will try to note where possible)

in a dark room you see little if any rings of the fresnel lens, compar4d to what you see by the camera (when you have your had at optimum viewing distance from the lens)


ok here goes.


a RUDIMENTARY box just for show an tell..

viewed at an angle, its distorted..but that is the properties of the lens, when sitting directly eye level its beautiful

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2338.jpg


a behind the pit look at things


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2339.jpg


now this thing cathes a LOT of light. in a dark room it fills the area of CRT light :P

so you will notice in some cases i have no need for a flash.

here is MSFS2004 "scenic wonders" shot

this photo taken with the camera placed squarely on the cockpit seat. ( point of reference)..just to note, this is not where i keep my natural head position...so some effects will be seen the further you get away from the lens.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2347.jpg



ok now this picture uses the lens, with camera in SAME position on the pit seat. (here you see the effects if your TOO far away) but showing you what a sizable difference it makes in viewing objects


(remember both photos were taken from the EXACT reference point.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2346.jpg


this photo shows an excellent desktop ( i do apologize..i do not know whos it is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

this was taken at NATURAL head position in teh cockpit seat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2367.jpg

this SAME REFERENCE POINT is with the fresnel lens ON! once you get into the "veiwable box" area..its quite stunning! the problem here is that its SO LARGE the camera couldnt get the rest of the screen in!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2371.jpg

and a few in game shots... in 2 parts . again 2 shots farther away, FLUSH on the cockpit seat.this is done so you can efefctively see the area . but that changes for the better whemn you get closer to your relaxed viewing area!


without the lens. no flash.flush w/ cockpit seat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2375.jpg


lens ON .no flash. flush w/cockpit seat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2376.jpg

and then 2 more shots showing relaxed/natural head position when playing.

again relaxed state. lens off.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2378.jpg

lens ON, in relaxed head position.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/GAU-8/100_2377.jpg

i HIGHLY suggest doing this rather than spending a hundred bucks or so for 3-D galsses, that many people cant work with or are annoyed/ frustrated with them. such as myself.

hope i made sence. hope i converted a few of ya. and 1ST person shooters freak you OUT running thru hallways and stuff. i just finished playing BF2 simply amazed.

DeputyNelson
04-12-2006, 11:18 PM
Eh, I am sure it would look better from your point of view instead of the camera shots, but from what I saw.....it wouldn't be worth it to me.

GAU-8
04-12-2006, 11:24 PM
well part of it deals with the focal point.

the MORE 3D effeect you have, the less it is IN focus. so there is a little trade off. but in person when you get the distance correctly determined, you dont lose a thing. you may get a little "periperal vision " feeling to it on the edges.. but thats what makes it great. its like your using a virtual set of eyeballs in a virtual world.. if that makes sence.


what it does is "virtually" makes your image larger, and adding depth. i now have a "virtual" 32 inch monitor...compared to a "FLAT" 21 inch CRT. like i said tryout the cheap version. and decide for yourself. whats 7 dollars?


again. what you see that you DONT LIKE is actually because of the camera. when adjusted properly you have crisp sharp lines, with a VIRTUAL 3D effect... play for a few minutes and yes.its "3D" your are really THERE. also with the camera showing the "naturla" head view...a lot of the shot is clipped. naturally due to the camera lens limits. looking into "the box" its so wide, and natural feeling.the box is approximately 9 inches from the monitor, and my head in a natural "flying state" is around 1 foot away from the box. effectively done, you get no or little distortion with lights off. also you DO NOT see the inside edges of the box your are lookiking into. just the veiwable image itself. its quite a treat

Max.Power
04-13-2006, 02:32 AM
It looks like you have some foo fighters in a couple of those shots!

ploughman
04-13-2006, 03:54 AM
That's interesting stuff their GAU.

I was impressed by the multi-monitor set up on the article you linked with the three lenses forming a near seamless field of view.

As you say, it's too cheap not to give it a whirl.

GAU-8
04-13-2006, 05:05 AM
if you ARE interested in the proffesional version of the 3 monitor setup..look here!

http://www.bugeyetech.com/products.php

this site does have videos of the 3 monitors in effect. its fairly sweet. think with track-ir. yea baby.

a single version and 3 monitor version is availabl,but im aiming for ....

this
http://www.force-dynamics.com/

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

cmirko
04-13-2006, 05:21 AM
this sounds extremely interesting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, just did a bit of research and it could be the thing for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

been flying il2 for some time now (3-4 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), and i think that the biggest advantage a pilot can have is better sight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so the quest for better il2 experience has dragged me through 3 monitors and a more than a few computers by now, but this seems great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

a few questions first, pls bear with me gau-8:

1. i cant see from the pictures you posted, but could you pls give us a rough estimate how much is text and little detail blured when you look through the lens ? or is it at all ?

2. are you eyes more tired after watching through it ? is the lens clear enough (the acryl) ?

3. its 27$ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, not much by my account but since im from europe it could cost a bit more for me just to try it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, and because of that a little favor to ask: could you take a few photos of you looking at planes (with icons on pls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so we can judge how big the magnifying effect is, and same position of camera ofcourse) on different distances, lets say 300m, 500m, 1km ? - this would be very big help for anyone who is interested in buying one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

4. i also have a 22" crt, and from that i think that every one of 320mm x 400mm would be ok, but what is the difference between focal points ? if i understand right, that should be the distance from monitor ? and it should also give bigger picture then ?

a lot of questions m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, would like your help a lot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thx in advance m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

edit: more questions added http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

STENKA_69.GIAP
04-13-2006, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by cmirko:

a few questions first, pls bear with me gau-8:

1. i cant see from the pictures you posted, but could you pls give us a rough estimate how much is text and little detail blured when you look through the lens ? or is it at all ?

2. are you eyes more tired after watching through it ? is the lens clear enough (the acryl) ?

3. its 27$ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, not much by my account but since im from europe it could cost a bit more for me just to try it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, and because of that a little favor to ask: could you take a few photos of you looking at planes (with icons on pls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so we can judge how big the magnifying effect is, and same position of camera ofcourse) on different distances, lets say 300m, 500m, 1km ? - this would be very big help for anyone who is interested in buying one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

4. i also have a 22" crt, and from that i think that every one of 320mm x 400mm would be ok, but what is the difference between focal points ? if i understand right, that should be the distance from monitor ? and it should also give bigger picture then ?


Yup - I've got one of these too - if I remember right it cost 42 Euros including post to France.

If I was only going to do word processing I wouldn't use a Freznel lens for clarity sake - but as I've attached it to the screen quite firmly I don't bother to take it off for text work.

Acrylic is very clear - no problem - might age in time.

Big bonus - less eye strain than normal no matter how close your head is to screen your eyes are focussed out to infinity. This is the major benefit - your eyes take a real hammering working hours on end with a normal screen and when you get to the age of bifocals any help is welcome.

You adjust the distance of filter to screen to determine the amount of magnification you want. I use threaded studs to attach to screen so I can fine tune the magnification.

This lens is good on my 19" screen I suspect it would be enormous improvement to a 17" but if you are at 22" maby you will not get much magnification could get a bigger lens.

Main point of these screens is not magnification (unless you've only 17" now)- claims of 3D are dubious - what you actualy get is a sense of depth as your eyes think they are looking far into the distance.

I can't see what the point of taking pictures of planes is by the time it's translated back into a picture on your screen you just see your screen? None of the pictures above give you the effect of depth.

The punchline to buying decision - is the fact that that almost all professional flight simulators use freznel lenses and you can find out why for about 50 Euros.

cmirko
04-13-2006, 06:30 AM
thx stenka for answers, i understand the 2d constraints of a monitor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif thats why i only asked to see the magnifying effect and how it translates on target view with steady pov of pilot, you got the lens from

http://www.3dlens.com/enter.htm

here ? which one if i may ask, and what is the focal point you got http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ?

Irish_Rogues
04-13-2006, 06:38 AM
The price is right, so I'm willing to give it a try. I'm not sure about how to do the sizing. What size if I have a 17" monitor? Would it be the same or could you use it on a 19"?

GAU-8
04-13-2006, 11:47 AM
stenka perfectly answered a lot of the questions.

agree word processsing is not for this. gets a little blurry, only the text. also your desktop size. im using 1800 1441 desktop rez right now. so its a litle squinty on some areas...but in game, its very convincing.

my eyes are more strained after not looking thru it ....after you get used to this, gaming on a "flat" monitor sux


stenka is right about the 3D part as well,as its not REAL 3D..but you get depth. but if you get your DEPTH set up right.... it is VERY convincing in your head that its "3D" i cant explain it. imagine a 3D ve.wmaster, without the "layers" and its all a smooth transsition from foregound to background


right again. i cant SHOW DEPTH of anykind by taking the pictures. thats why i tried to put a disclaimer about the effects of a camera used on a lens. but i wanted to at least show THE MAGNIFICATION...if they liked the "new large monitor for CHEAP" then they would probably be interested in teh DEPTH when viewing it or the first time.

GAU-8
04-13-2006, 11:49 AM
oooh i have glaring typos. i hate using a vertical keybioard.! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

GAU-8
04-13-2006, 11:53 AM
i happen to have a few different monitors around.. ill try to expirament with my lens after work today.. ill let ya know.

STENKA_69.GIAP
04-14-2006, 06:27 AM
I looked up my order details it actualy cost 40 Euros inc. Shipping the reference is as below

This is OK for my 19" and of course will be OK for a 17" it's no problem being too big!

http://www.3dlens.com/enter.html

Title: Large Fresnel Lens #F550
Price: $ 27.00
Weight: 280 gms
Item Number: #F550
Quantity: 1
Subtotal: $ 27.00

Bearcat99
04-14-2006, 07:37 AM
This sounds very interesting.... I think I will give this a shot. For $27 you cant beat it with a stick. For the 3 monitor thing there though I think I will wait to see what happens with he OLED (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/organicOLEDsdisplays.php) technology.. which promises to revolutionize simming and monitors period. Oleds use less power, are brighter, cost less to maufacture, can be molded to any shape (Some can even be painted on a surface.. imagine being able to have a monitor on a wall.... ) than LCDs. For now my 19" CRT does the trick and it looks like with this lens it will do it even better so I am going to give it a go.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
04-14-2006, 08:00 AM
I have to admit that this looks crazy and I laughed at first. But I think it's one of those things you have to see in person to really judge...

foxyboy1964
04-14-2006, 08:52 AM
This may be a stupid question but how do you decide which size lens you need? Is it just a case of getting a lens that is equal to or greater in size than your monitor?

Bearcat99
04-14-2006, 10:50 AM
Well I see guys who have monitors the same size as mine.. so Im getting what they got.... I figure for $27... what can I loose. I have spent more than that on a bad movie.

foxyboy1964
04-14-2006, 01:14 PM
Yeah, it's got to be worth a try hasn't it? Can anyone recommend a UK supplier?

Bearcat99
04-14-2006, 02:07 PM
Dont they ship to the UK? I think they are a Chiese company.. but I just ordered mine... along with a set of the credit card sized ones for some elderly folks I know.

foxyboy1964
04-14-2006, 02:16 PM
Hey Bearcat, will you let us know how you get on with the lens when it arrives?

edgflyer
04-14-2006, 05:26 PM
Will this work on a LCD?

GAU-8
04-14-2006, 06:37 PM
FOXY...

for the price..might as well get the biggest one you can. there are issues with dealing with a smaller monitor with the same size lens (as i had before with the experimental "full page magnifier)

.by using a larger lens gives you more workable room to see "in the box" without getting your nose pressed up to the plastic.

. for LCD users. i would suggest someone who can make a frame for you thats on a stand.
SIMKITS has this , but it is VERY expensive , even for a die hard simmer (arent we all die hard???).but i post this for REFERENCE for framework only! as much as i like SIMKITS, this is TOO much!

here.
http://www.simkits.com/product.php?prodid=304

also if you DO order from 3DLENS when you get the lens let them know what you think of it ...they ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US! about two years ago (when i was using the full page magnifier)i sent them an email for finding a low cost fresnel lens for flight simming in a larger size. most cases its either VERY expensive, or INFERIOR and EXPENSIVE. at the time they did not have any, but later after others had inquired about the same thing, i finaly got an e-mail from them stating they now had high groove count, large size lenses. it wasnt an add email, it was from one of them actually remembering my email to them, and from several others!

. BE CAREFUL with your lens! you can kill/melt/fry/burn/ MANY MANY MANY things with this in SECONDS!!!!!!!! its more powerful than a traditional lens.

. work with WASHED hands, or cotton gloves. you cant really clean this . i have tried several ways, hot water, cold water, mild cleaners, dishwasher,etc,etc.... your just going to have to live with the oil/residue in your lens when it gets it. if not you will MAKE IT WORSE, and by the time you figure it out..youll live with THAT, and say "DOH. it was better before i messed with it!"
i would suggest using compressed air from a distance for hair/dust. thats about all you can do from my experience.

.clean your monitor, find the distances you like .build a sturdy FOAMCORE box for it if possible. that way there is very little chance of something imbedding inside the screen that could be floating around. as well, keeps your oily fingers off of it, especially entering into the grooves.

wayno7777
04-14-2006, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
Hey Bearcat, will you let us know how you get on with the lens when it arrives?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Yes Bearcat, please....

GAU-8
04-14-2006, 11:10 PM
guys,

why wait a few weeks for Bearcat...when you can try it yourself FOR FREE.

Go to your local office supply store, look for the full page magnifiers, take one out of its sleeve, then go up to a demo computer..(prefferably one playing 3d games,movie, or clips) then just hold it up to the monitor and start playing with it, finding out the optimal depth to clarity from the computer, then the distance from you to screen.

now because there are going to be lights on the ceiling, you will get a LOT of light feedback. noticing the rings. this goes away mostly or totally in a dark room http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-14-2006, 11:52 PM
Gau-8 thanks for the presentation.

How does the lens work for night missions? Have you tried this yet?

For night ops, I turn off room lights except maybe a 25watt red bulb.

GAU-8
04-15-2006, 02:28 AM
you will get minor glare if you have some kind of light on. but the nice thing is that you can look "through" it, just like a windshield on a car, or aircraft, as in real life.

but that glare is never in the center of the screen. due to the concentric circles, its always towards the middle or outside edge.

ill post a few more pics shorty (if i can get a decent showing of what im talking about..)

Flying_Nutzo
04-15-2006, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by GAU-8:
im aiming for ....

this
http://www.force-dynamics.com/

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Cheers for the info about the Fresnal lenses. I've just ordered one.

And also thanks for the link above to Force Dynamics. Folks, check out the vids - crazy good. Waiting for the reply about price.

Irish_Rogues
04-15-2006, 07:58 AM
I hope they're going to give you kick-back, it looks like you've already sold 3-4 including mine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

foxyboy1964
04-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Thanks for the info GAU-8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-15-2006, 01:44 PM
Just curious but how rigid are these lenses ? 1.8mm seems a little flexible ?

GAU-8
04-15-2006, 09:53 PM
while fairly rigid, they can bend some, as a matter of fact, i just cleaned mine off right before i started posting. i held the edges with the palm of my hands and shook it up and down.somewhat vigorously, and it didnt crack/break, made a nice whaaable whaable whaable sound :P

im hoping i can fab some kind of frame for it, because if you give it a slight convex shape to it adds a very light fish-eye look to it (depending how far you angle the curve.)hardly noticable, but enough so that the very tip of the 4 corners is taking in some of the vieable surface from the game. but itself helps in the "depth" .

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-15-2006, 10:24 PM
Hmm yes your post prompted me to dig out my own lens that I had purchased some time ago as part of an abandoned projector project, and I did notice that, as you say, you can have a slightley curved effect to the edges of the image that can be counterd slightly if you bend the lens.

however I can confirm (I have used the stereoscopic shutter glasses also) that the lens does indeed seem to improve the Depth effect in a smilar fashion to lcd shutter glasses but with out the accompanying eyestrain asscociated with shutter glasses.

The only issue I found with my particular lens was the need to have my face quite close to the lens in order to see the full screen. Although from what I have read here a larger lens would reduce the face to lens proximity factor.

As to the relevant value of this 'addon' I will have to give it some more time and experimentation (perhaps with a larger lens and as you suggest a better method of framing and attaching the lens to the screen).

I will say that this does seem to be a worthwhile addition to anyone considering a full cockpit project, and indeed would probably be a worth while and cheap addition.


I wonder if you can fit these things to a motorcycle helmet ? Or would that be just two dang wierd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Found this one while researching, great for vapourising bunnies mwuahahah
http://www.alltronics.biz/mas_assets/full/22L005.jpg

http://www.alltronics.biz/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=22L005


Interesting application of the kind mentioned earlier

http://www.x-plane.info/cockpit/pic23.jpg

TC_Stele
04-16-2006, 01:30 AM
Very interesting, GAU. I'm going to give this a shot. Thanks for sharing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

GAU-8
04-16-2006, 02:21 AM
i figured the reward for informing you guys/gals was greater than the risk of being a dork :P

besides, if you all can accept someone with purple hair.. then obviously you can accept someone with a large magnifying lens on his desk...RIGHT??? RIGHT????


guys?...........


whered they go?

GAU-8
04-16-2006, 02:47 AM
well there is going to be some proximity to teh lens...but the bigger the lens is, the more area you have, to effectively "look inside". using your eyes more than "ducking around" physically moving your head.

much like a window in a solid brick wall, which window will allow you to see in the room more effectively within a few meters or feet? a tiny window you have to peer in , getting as close as possible, and within reason physically looking up down to get the rest of the rooms image in.

OR,

with a much larger window, you dont have to move your head nearly as much, if at all. mostly you will move your eyes, and you can be further away, but still get much more info about the inside of the room, compared to the smaller window.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-16-2006, 01:42 PM
As an owner of Track Ir & a set of shutter shades I can honestly say that I gave up worrying about what I look like a very long time ago. My philosophy is if it works and enhances the experience then use it.

As a side note and in the interest of not hearing that any of you vapourised your monitors, homes, or purple hair for that matter.

You are essentialy placing a giant magnifying glass in front of your monitor so please bare this in mind and avoid allowing direct sunlight or bright light to pass through and become focused with these lenses.

foxyboy1964
04-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Smoking monitor?...immersion baby!

cmirko
04-17-2006, 03:46 AM
pls post all your experiences http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, i will definitively order one next mon th but would like to hear all experiences and shots of your monitor if available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

pterodactyl77
04-17-2006, 04:58 PM
yes please post-- is the $27 USD worth it?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-17-2006, 06:11 PM
Well I think if you are unsure about wether or not to invest in one of these perhaps a purchase of a smaller cheaper lens will allow you to experiment with the 'effect' and then decide if you wish to fork out for a full size lens.

http://www.greenweld.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Fresnel_203.html

in the uk admitedly, but if you search I am sure you will find various dealers that will supply all shapes and sizes in your locality.

I tested with an A4 sized lens whilst playing back a track in cockpit mode and I can see what GAU is getting at. With my lens It needed to be approximately 20-30 cm away from the screen and I in turn needed to have my face quite close to the lens (say 10 cm) so it was not suitable for regular game purposes but was ideal for testing the theory.

My conclusion:
It does add a better sense of depth and feels more 'natural' to the eye. But I would hesitate to say that it will have you ducking and diving in anticipation of objects flying out of the screen at you.

Also bear in mind that this will require you to construct some form of aperatus to suspend the lens in front of your monitor, and the quality of your frame / cowl will affect your comfort level and overall benefit. Also if you use the pc for more that just gaming with il2 this may be a factor to consider as browsing and wordprocessing will not be practical with such a set up.

Bottom line is if $27 dollars is gona mean your kids starve or you won't be able to afford that hip replacement you were promising yourself then I would not bother.

If you dont like the effect then you have a handy giant magnifyer with which you can spend some time vapourising ants or lighting fires. Or give it to a visualy impared relative to aid them reading the paper or maps.

hope that is of some help.

GAU-8
04-18-2006, 12:00 AM
well put!

my thread title says "upgrade to 3D effects" i didnt think about it at first, but its kind of misleading, but as i did mention in the first post NOTHING JUMPS OUT at you like a "3-D" movie. but you get DEPTH...not a true 3D experience,but,if you get the distance right, from both the monitor to lens, and from lens to you, its very convincing in your brain, if all you see is just the image, and depth, without any distractions in peripheral view..it "feels" 3-D.

i ve been having a GREAT time in flaming cliffs (LO-MAC) in the A-10 lately. for the price, im very happy. hopefully those of you who do try have the same reward as i am getting. it might not be for some http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-18-2006, 12:21 AM
Well I for one intend to upgrade to a larger lens and I am grateful to you Gau for pointing out a feature of these lenses that it hadn't occured to me that they could be used for.

Previously I have come across suggestions that these lenses be used to make a home built projection monitor/tv not such a simple task. But this idea seems to deliver a lot more for a lot less hassel. Either way cheers for bringing this whole subject up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DDastardlySID
04-18-2006, 03:58 PM
I use the F550 from 3Dlens.com in my setup (with a 21" monitor) and recommend it heartily to anyone. I would describe the effect as fooling the brain into thinking you're looking at a 35-40" screen at a distance of maybe 40" (when in actual fact you're looking at a 21" screen at a distance of 25"). In other words stuff looks further away and bigger - ideal for flight sims, FPS and racing games.

The drawbacks are that the image isn't quite as sharp when looking through the lens, and you will need to minimize any lighting in the room otherwise reflections will be a problem. (Because of the way the lens works, the reflections will actually appear to hover between the surface of the lens and your eyes).

BTW if you combine a fresnel lens with 3D shutter glasses you can get an even better effect. This works very well in MSFS2004 or Lock On, making the landscape seem a vertigo inducing distance below your plane (although not unfortunately in IL2 which seems to be a bit flakey in certain respects when viewed in true 3D).
Cheers,
DD

P.S. When setting it up, you need to make sure that the box/frame you build around the lens keeps the surface of the lens flat and that the centre of your monitor, the centre of the lens and the point between your eyes are all in a straight line.

CRO_Adriatic
04-18-2006, 05:17 PM
Sorry if I'm party breaker, but I just hope that all NVIDIA owner know that is possible to download 3D drivers for using Anaglyph (red/blue) glasses...

3D is great, you can truly see distance inside cockpit, but there is some mistakes outside on ground usually, so, it is not mented to be used in fight.

3d glasses cost nothing (just two plastic filters on it, maybe 1 euro), using this drivers is easy, and if you place more glasses above each other-you get stronger 3d effect. So, you just have to find glasses, maybe you have it from some cinema, install drivers, set up some keys so you can activate Anaglyph in game and set how much strong 3D effect you wish-depending how strong filter is on glasses...

It can be used on all monitors.

This is cheapest 3D effect you can get, I think it can be used with your method of extending feel of depth...

Jumoschwanz
04-18-2006, 07:55 PM
Even cheaper yet, hit yourself in the middle of the forehead with a ball-peen hammer several times before each mission. This has the added bonus of feeling really really good when you are done.

Jumoschwanz

AFJ_Locust
04-18-2006, 09:24 PM
I want to make a custom fresnell mounting system that can be purchased cheeply that can mount a fresnell for 17,19 21" monitors

ZappaTime
04-19-2006, 09:03 AM
Interesting stuff, I just dug out a 10" x 8" that someone gave me ages ago, it does have an immersive effect, difficult to describe but you do feel like your looking in on the world through a bubble window and your head movement allows viewing beyond the normal limits of your monitor.

That sounds like a right load of mumbojumbo now I've read it but its sort of what I mean. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Anyhow, to those that have got one of the large 320mm x 400mm lenses - what effect does the focal length have on your set-up, there are maybe 3 choices - 220, 330 & 550 mm. Should your point of view be at this distance from the lens? Sorry my optics theory is a bit rusty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
The 550 would perhaps be the best if this is the case.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2006, 09:10 AM
Bigger the focul length I think the further back from the screen you can sit but thats just my take on it

Simple theory is

Bigger is better

DDastardlySID
04-19-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by ZappaTime:
Anyhow, to those that have got one of the large 320mm x 400mm lenses - what effect does the focal length have on your set-up, there are maybe 3 choices - 220, 330 & 550 mm. Should your point of view be at this distance from the lens? Sorry my optics theory is a bit rusty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
The 550 would perhaps be the best if this is the case.

Yeah, I would go for the F550. I find I get the best results with the lens about 30cm from my face and the monitor's screen about 30cm behind that.
Cheers,
DD

Flying_Nutzo
04-20-2006, 01:09 AM
I just got mine - an F550.

Impressions? Well, most dramatically my 22 inch monitor now looks like a movie theater screen (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif). After viewing the screen through the lens, then taking it away, the 22 inch screen looks *SMALL*. lol. That was a pleasant experience.

In terms of 3D/'perception of depth' effects, at first I only saw a small effect, but after flying a full mission, I could really appreciate the depth - i.e. the feeling that the landscape was 'over there' - yeah like miles away!. Not just the landscape but planes & everything else had an 'over there' feel., too.

Quite bizarre, in a good way. My shooting was better than normal in the mission I just flew. Did the lense improve my lead judgement? Dunno! Maybe, or maybe that was just by chance.

I've only flown a couple of missions, but wanted to write about it. This has got to be the cheapest big-screen work-around out there. So for about $us50 incl shipping you get a big-screen experience + some degree of depth perception. Funny how sometimes the low-tech solutions can be such winners. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Recommendation? Just do it.

GAU-8. Thanks a plenty for this thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

www.3Dlens.com (http://www.3Dlens.com)
Look under 'Large Fresenel Lenses', Item #F550 is the one I got.

PS I also tried it on a small 15 inch monitor and it was also very cool. What a difference!

PPS Downsides: I've had to move closer to the monitor, which is slightly cramping me, using rudder pedals. Text (and by extension all visuals I guess) are not quite as clear as 'normal', as already mentioned by others. But remember that you can decide the distance at which you mount this puppy, so that's customisable. I've mounted it onto a box (like in GAU-8's pics), and the lense is 30cm from the monitor. My eyes are about 50cm from the lens. Seems okay, but I'll fine tune things later.

PPS I had to mount my TrackIR unit higher since the box blocked the LOS. Being a little low class, I stuck it in a toilet roll, on the monitor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bearcat99
04-20-2006, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Irish_Rogues:
I hope they're going to give you kick-back, it looks like you've already sold 3-4 including mine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I wish I had a buck for everyone who got a rebuilt Saitek because I sent them there..... I think Id have about a yard or more... LOL..

woofiedog
04-20-2006, 06:41 AM
A link for the NVIDIA 3D Drivers: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d_stereo.html

I got to give this a run around the block! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BTY... Do you have a bit of Money burning a hole in your pocket... take a look at this... http://www.dti3d.com/component/page,shop.product_detail...irtuemart/Itemid,30/ (http://www.dti3d.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,7/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,30/)

Bearcat99
04-20-2006, 07:00 AM
$3600+ ouch......

woofiedog
04-20-2006, 07:11 AM
You can say that again Bearcat99! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

willyvic
04-20-2006, 08:39 PM
bump

Bearcat99
04-21-2006, 01:48 AM
$43 w shipping included sounds good to me..... (I also got a 10 pack of the credit card sized lenses for some folks I know)

Bearcat99
04-24-2006, 05:16 PM
Got it (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2031054634)!! Not bad Gau.... Thanks for the heads up!!

TX Rahman
05-08-2006, 09:25 AM
Great find... I've always doubted the frensel lens deal but for $27 I'll definately give it a shot before I plop down $750 for a 24 inch LCD.

I have a 21 inch Dell CRT. Should I get the F550? Which model do you guys recommend for this monitor?

GAU-8
05-08-2006, 11:48 AM
S~ RAH!

i got the was it F33? or F350? ive been seeing most people go for the F550. and they are happy with the results...

here is what i am trying to find out.. i beleive i have read somewhere that the SHORTER the focal length, the STRONGER the lens is.. but i cant find it anymore online.

i might just have to spring for a 550 and a the 220 in the near future, just for comparison purposes...that and frying ants/cans/walls/concrete/tires/model aircraft/flowers/mobos without destroying my currently used lens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TX Rahman
05-08-2006, 09:49 PM
GAU,
S~~ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Check your PMs here on the UBI Forums..

GAU-8
05-09-2006, 12:44 AM
DOH!


bump

Aaron_GT
05-09-2006, 02:50 AM
Well I think if you are unsure about wether or not to invest in one of these perhaps a purchase of a smaller cheaper lens will allow you to experiment with the 'effect' and then decide if you wish to fork out for a full size lens.

http://www.greenweld.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Fresnel_203.html

in the uk admitedly, but if you search I am sure you will find various dealers that will supply all shapes and sizes in your locality.


The biggest one they seem to do is about 13.5 inches diagnonally - not really big enough for a 17 inch monitor? I did find a place doing very much larger ones, but one big enough to completely cover a 17 inch monitor was 90! Probably high quality, I suppose, but I'd like to see if I can find something big enough for a 17 inch monitor for arounbd 5 to 10 to try out the theory first! Anyone know of any in the UK?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
05-09-2006, 06:02 AM
Only other place I can think for you to look would be ebay mate but you will find a lot of scams trying to flog them as a home built projection tv http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Perhaps you could pick up an old school style overhead projector they have a built in lens I hear?

TX Rahman
05-10-2006, 06:24 AM
Ok... So what is the difference in focal length? I know GAU said he had the #330 and most folks were buying the #550... What is the actual difference between the 2. Ready to order but am curious as to which one I should order for use in the Akers-Barnes pit...

Thanks!

TX-EcoDragon
05-10-2006, 02:09 PM
Rah, focal length is the distance from a lens that the rays of light are focused to a point. While I've never compared fresnel lenses, just thinking about I would think that a longer focal length would require more desk space as a result of placing the lens farther from the monitor and also allow you to position your eyes farther from the lens as well. I'd guess it would also provide more large screen effect, and that the edge to edge coverage for larger monitors would be better with the longer focal length too since they would be farther away.

Bearcat99
05-10-2006, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The biggest one they seem to do is about 13.5 inches diagnonally - not really big enough for a 17 inch monitor? I did find a place doing very much larger ones, but one big enough to completely cover a 17 inch monitor was 90! Probably high quality, I suppose, but I'd like to see if I can find something big enough for a 17 inch monitor for arounbd 5 to 10 to try out the theory first! Anyone know of any in the UK?

The 550 from 3dLens.com (http://www.3dlens.com/) measures 20" diagonaly (15.5x11.5")from corner to corner. Go to 3dLens.com (http://www.3dlens.com/). They are a Chinese company... they ship worldwide quick and efficiently. For $27 U.S. you cant beat it with a stick. That's less than dinner and a movie for two. I have a 19" monitor.

shotdownski
05-11-2006, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The biggest one they seem to do is about 13.5 inches diagnonally - not really big enough for a 17 inch monitor? I did find a place doing very much larger ones, but one big enough to completely cover a 17 inch monitor was 90! Probably high quality, I suppose, but I'd like to see if I can find something big enough for a 17 inch monitor for arounbd 5 to 10 to try out the theory first! Anyone know of any in the UK?

The 550 from 3dLens.com (http://www.3dlens.com/) measures 20" diagonaly (15.5x11.5")from corner to corner. Go to 3dLens.com (http://www.3dlens.com/). They are a Chinese company... they ship worldwide quick and efficiently. For $27 U.S. you cant beat it with a stick. That's less than dinner and a movie for two. I have a 19" monitor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bearcat,

With the 550 what are the distances from the monitor screen to the lens and from the lens to your eyes?

Now after using it for awhile, do you think it will become a perminent piece of your simming gear, like TrackIR?

BTW, that was a funny story about your kid...you just gotta love 'em.

Thanks ahead

Bearcat99
05-11-2006, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by shotdownski:
Bearcat,
With the 550 what are the distances from the monitor screen to the lens and from the lens to your eyes?
Now after using it for awhile, do you think it will become a perminent piece of your simming gear, like TrackIR?


Actually it varies because I have yet to make a permanent setup... I find that with my head @ a foot or so from the lens and the lens @ 6-8" from the monitor works best for me. Less didtortionand it really looks big.

DuxCorvan
05-27-2006, 02:52 AM
How do the porn pages look thru that lens? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bearcat99
05-27-2006, 07:48 AM
Probably the same as everything else.... bigger http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Old_Canuck
05-27-2006, 08:22 AM
I see the 550 is for a 19" inch LCD monitor. Will it work on a 21" CRT or should I look for a bigger lense?

Mr_Blastman
06-17-2006, 11:17 AM
Well, I ordered the F550 from 3dlens.com over 3 weeks ago and I still don't have it yet. I'm in the US in Atlanta (a major city) and am starting to get worried.

How long did it take you guys in the US to receive your lens once you ordered it? 3dlens shipped it the next day of my order according to the emails I received.

Doolittle81
06-17-2006, 04:02 PM
Does it give you a headache???

GAU-8
06-18-2006, 04:21 AM
Mr_blastman,

do you remember HOW you were having it shipped? you MIGHT have accidentally have done it a slower method...? i did mine EXPRESS, and it was about 10 days.


Doolittle, it COULD give you a headache. most cases it is the set-up that is incorrect. OR a lens with the focal length WAY TO short.

Bearcat99
06-18-2006, 05:28 AM
Mine took a while.. dont worry.... it will probably be there either this week or next latest.

Mr_Blastman
06-18-2006, 08:00 AM
I shipped it the slowest way possible I think - the postal air mail - no tracking number support. I asked the postman that delivers my mail and he said it could take weeks coming from China.

I can't wait to get this sucker hooked up (and the fiancee CAN wait - showed her pics and she was like yuck ugliness http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

shotdownski
06-18-2006, 10:33 AM
I got a 550 a few weeks ago for my 19 LCD monitor. Built a hood for it out of black foam board (Office Max, Staples, etc) and black duct tape. Attached it to the monitor with velcro strips over the top of the monitor. Total cost of materials ~$15.00.

After getting used to its larger viewing area, I consider it a permanent piece of IL-2 gear. Seems to make judging distances better; gunnery and landings are much improved.

Mr_Blastman
06-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Well, I got my lens today - cracked 2/3's into the width in half! I will say that the lens is most impressive - in terms of quality and appearance - held up the biggest broken piece to the monitor and it looked amazing!

I hope they will replace it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG301_nils
06-19-2006, 06:32 PM
We people are funny, we go round and round for weeks or months to sort of infomation, whether to do something or not. When we finally decide to get it, we want to have arrived yesterday. hehe
BTW Good tip Gau

Mr_Blastman
06-20-2006, 08:39 AM
I emailed them and they are going to send a replacement http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am extremely impressed with the quality of this lens (even if it is broken) - thanks Gau!

One thing I noticed is it gets dusty fast! I must find a way to keep it dust free.

Mr_Blastman
06-24-2006, 03:00 PM
Ok, I got my new 550 today and built a box and hooked it up -- this is incredible!

The only problem I'm having is it hurts the eyes slightly

I settled with a distance of 10 inches from my 17 inch monitor and I can sit back at least a foot or two from the lens and it looks great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GAU-8
06-24-2006, 10:21 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif