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THE-GRIZZLEY
12-28-2010, 01:41 AM
Post your theories on the many secrets hidden within the AC storyline.

Here are mine: ***SPOILERS***

In The Truth video of AC: B Subject 16 says not to trust "her." It could be Lucy. Also, right before Subject 16 disappears he says "The sun...your son...too weak...must replenish energy." This could be implying that Subject 16 was Desmond's son.

Also, S 16 could be warning Desmond not to trust Juno (the holographic woman.) The truth video from the first AC shows adam and eve escaping what is most likely the Garden of Eden with the apple of eden in their hands. While climbing the tower right before the end, you can see a woman in through the window facing slaves doing work for her. This could mean that Minerva doesn't care for the human race and wants them to do what she wants, so S 16 is warning Desmond not to trust anything Juno says. (The controlling personality of Juno became evident when she forced Desmond to stab Lucy; which still might not be reality because of what someone said on the forums awhile back. His name slips my mind but he pointed out the same thing happened to Altair and it was just an illusion.)

In the end Desmond finds the apple on October 12th, 2012, and the password was 72. (This might have been mention by Shawn but I can't remember.) 72 days from October 12th is December 21, 2012. Hint hint: the end of the world which is what they are trying to stop.

Subject 16 is still alive! You get the achievement .. .- -- .- .-.. .. ...- . after you solve all of the clusters and this achievement translates to "I AM ALIVE" in Morse Code.

Emperor Jiajing (from the first AC ending, in the blood writing). THIS IS IMPORTANT: another possibility of what S 16 (subject 16) meant by "The sun...your son...too weak...must replenish energy." Emperor Jiajingwas the emperor of China from 1521 to 1567 and there was a plot to assassinate him (failed.) But more importantly he built THE TEMPLE OF THE SUN and collected RARE MATERIALS FROM AROUND THE WORLD. This could be one of the secret temples which holds one of the lost artifacts.

At the end of the game during the credit rolls you hear those unfamiliar voices and the last voice moaning "no" is without a doubt Desmond's. This could mean that the AC series (most likely not the entire AC series, most likely just this last part where Desmond obtains the apple) were Desmond in the animus recalling all of his experiences. It could either be the Templars or the Assassins trying to figure it out (see next theory.)

S 16 said in The Truth that it is far later than he knows and it's too late to save them (so he might kill more than just Lucy and it's not the date he thinks it it.) He also says that everything Desmond holds dear is gone, so maybe December 21st 2012 has already happened. Referring to my previous theory, if in fact it already happened, then it would be likely the remaining assassins are searching Desmond's memory to find where Desmond hid the apple (their last chance of winning the war.)

My newest theory and most far fetched: S 16 is Desmond. I may be thinking too hard into this but in The Truth video of AC: B when Desmond addresses Subject 16, S 16 laughs and says "yes, yes, Subject 17" as if he is addressing himself as Subject 17 implying 16 and 17 are the same people. As we know, Lucy was being EXTREMELY careful of the bleeding affect taking over Desmond. This could be because Abstergo buried all of his previous memories as S 16 deep deep into his mind (which could be possibly with their level of technology.) and Lucy is trying to make sure he doesn't ended up the same way as before. This is HIGHLY unlikely and doesn't make sense at all, I just found it weird the way S 16 replied to S 17. If this is true, this could explain why Desmond has this unique connection to S 16.

lodylody
12-28-2010, 02:05 AM
"(The controlling personality of Minerva became evident when she forced Desmond to stab Lucy)"

If I'm wrong, I apologize. But ACCORDING to the video and the NAME of the woman they ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. What you are talking about is JUNO, who looks different, sounds different and acts different. Those holograms are also from different times (Minerva from Ezio's and Juno from Desmond). I agree with your main point though - The Ones That Came Before are evil. In the Truth video of AC2, you see an Apple controlling all of those humans. Adam and Eve were running WITH the apple, probably to find a way to destroy it. I think Those That Came Before then took Eve and made her part of them, because they KNEW that the humans would soon overpower them.

Then, they put part of them in another one (Adam!?), the other part - this was the first ancestor of Desmond. Now, the descendant of Eve has to be found by Desmond, descendant of Adam or other half. When they reproduce, or touch eachother, or lock eyes with eachother (I really don't know), their genes will collide and form, or bring back Those That Came Before. They will cause chaos and hell.

"In the end Desmond finds the apple on October 12th, 2012, and the password was 72. (This might have been mention by Shawn but I can't remember.) 72 days from October 12th is December 21, 2012. Hint hint: the end of the world which is what they are trying to stop."

This was mentioned by Shawn, but it is still inportant to know. It's quite shocking - maybe 72 is actually a code, something that will reactivate Those That Came Before (72 days after the hologram Juno was activated).

Maybe Desmond will find the descendant of Eve on that day?

THE-GRIZZLEY
12-28-2010, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by lodylody:
Maybe Desmond will find the descendant of Eve on that day?

Sorry I got my godesses mixed up haha, but anyway. That makes total sense, if what you say is true about the descendants of Adam and Eve then you may have figured out the ending.

Brilliant.

LordWolv
12-28-2010, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by THE-GRIZZLEY:
Subject 16 is still alive! You get the achievement .. .- -- .- .-.. .. ...- . after you solve all of the clusters and this achievement translates to "I AM ALIVE" in Morris Code.
Wow. Might just be me, but that looks like complete evidence that Subject 16 is alive. I've never seen that before.

lodylody
12-28-2010, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by THE-GRIZZLEY:
Sorry I got my godesses mixed up haha, but anyway. That makes total sense, if what you say is true about the descendants of Adam and Eve then you may have figured out the ending.

Brilliant.

Thanks! And yeah, I just like Minerva so people mixing her up with Juno makes me angry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I just think that it would be odd for Adam to have nothing to do with it, considering Eve seems to play a vital role in the series.

EDIT: That morse code is really exciting - I can't wait to see Subject 16 in the flesh!!

BleedingArtist
12-28-2010, 09:38 AM
I've noticed that a lot of people have accused Lucy of being a Templar, well I'm not sure if she's a Templar or not, but I wanna ask, why do you believe that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy cuz she's a Templar ? doesn't it make you think that maybe, just maybe that Juno is an enemy too?, let's get back to AC II when Minerva said that a war occurred between "who came before" and the humans, and since the human defeated them since they were many as Minerva said. Now if you wonder why would Minerva and Juno "the ones who came before" would help us ? who would want to help saving some people who made them gone in the first place? won't they want revenge ? maybe they want to mess with Desmond's path for saving the planet and Lucy was a huge block for them since she has been VERY helpful, I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong


another thing is about the conversation that occurred during the credits, you hear 2 voices that we don't recognize who it belongs to but when you listen closely to the 3rd person who said "No" it sounded to me very similar to Desmond's, I have 2 theories about that No.1 is that maybe it was Desmond's son since Subject 16 mentioned "you're son" to Desmond and he was shocked about seeing his father stabbing Lucy , at first I said maybe he was shocked he had seen his father kill his mother! but it won't be possible if Lucy died so moving on to theory No.2 what if Desmond losses his memory after stabbing Lucy and somehow he gets back to the Animus and recover his memory through it and gets shocked when he sees him self stabbing Lucy !

anyway that was my theories that I wanted to share ...

lodylody
12-28-2010, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by BleedingArtist:
I've noticed that a lot of people have accused Lucy of being a Templar, well I'm not sure if she's a Templar or not, but I wanna ask, why do you believe that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy cuz she's a Templar ? doesn't it make you think that maybe, just maybe that Juno is an enemy too?, let's get back to AC II when Minerva said that a war occurred between "who came before" and the humans, and since the human defeated them since they were many as Minerva said. Now if you wonder why would Minerva and Juno "the ones who came before" would help us ? who would want to help saving some people who made them gone in the first place? won't they want revenge ? maybe they want to mess with Desmond's path for saving the planet and Lucy was a huge block for them since she has been VERY helpful, I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong

I agree with you - Lucy is a good guy as far as I can tell, and I think Those That Came Before are evil too. As I said, I think they plan to make it like before (The Truth video in AC2).


Originally posted by BleedingArtist:
another thing is about the conversation that occurred during the credits, you hear 2 voices that we don't recognize who it belongs to but when you listen closely to the 3rd person who said "No" it sounded to me very similar to Desmond's, I have 2 theories about that No.1 is that maybe it was Desmond's son since Subject 16 mentioned "you're son" to Desmond and he was shocked about seeing his father stabbing Lucy , at first I said maybe he was shocked he had seen his father kill his mother! but it won't be possible if Lucy died so moving on to theory No.2 what if Desmond losses his memory after stabbing Lucy and somehow he gets back to the Animus and recover his memory through it and gets shocked when he sees him self stabbing Lucy !

I get very angry with this 'Animus within Animus' sort of guesses. Desmond IS the present. I think he's screaming when he sees that he's back with the Templars. I don't think that You're son has anything to do with it, I think that was just him going crazy.

I love your ideas about Those Who Came Before.

slaro
12-28-2010, 11:24 AM
Did you read the email conversation out of the Animus. I did, we got some paswords from someone i dont know and we could log in at the accounts of Lucy and the two other people besides Desmond.
Lucy had a strange conversation about Desmond.

lodylody
12-28-2010, 11:42 AM
Which one? I think I know which ones you mean and yes, it is shocking. *SPOILERS* They heard Desmond screaming - he's becoming Subject 16. I think that's what S16 meant in The Truth for ACB - that Desmond himself was going to be like him (that the Animus has some sort of long-term effect anyway).

fugazi787
12-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Subject 16 is alive alright.



Alive in the Animus! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Chew on that for a bit.

slaro
12-28-2010, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by fugazi787:
Subject 16 is alive alright.



Alive in the Animus! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Chew on that for a bit.

No, subject 16 is alive in Desmond, he is always with him, thats the thing, i guess.

fugazi787
12-28-2010, 12:24 PM
s16: Voice. Subject 16. (laughter) Yes... yes. Subject 17.

dm: You're dead. I saw your blood.

s16: No time. It is far later than you know. Too late to save them.

dm: Who?

s16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear... its already gone!

dm: Explain. Please?

s16: Eden. She... In Eden, find Eve. The key... her DNA.

dm: Tell me!

s16: I cannot. The sun... your son... too weak. Must replenish energy.

dm: Dont go!

s16: I am with you till the end. Find me... in the darkness.

lodylody
12-28-2010, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by fugazi787:
s16: Voice. Subject 16. (laughter) Yes... yes. Subject 17.

dm: You're dead. I saw your blood.

s16: No time. It is far later than you know. Too late to save them.

dm: Who?

s16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear... its already gone!

dm: Explain. Please?

s16: Eden. She... In Eden, find Eve. The key... her DNA.

dm: Tell me!

s16: I cannot. The sun... your son... too weak. Must replenish energy.

dm: Dont go!

s16: I am with you till the end. Find me... in the darkness.

Erm... Well, I don't know what you mean but thanks for the whole conversation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

THE-GRIZZLEY
12-28-2010, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by BleedingArtist:
I've noticed that a lot of people have accused Lucy of being a Templar, well I'm not sure if she's a Templar or not, but I wanna ask, why do you believe that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy cuz she's a Templar ? doesn't it make you think that maybe, just maybe that Juno is an enemy too?, let's get back to AC II when Minerva said that a war occurred between "who came before" and the humans, and since the human defeated them since they were many as Minerva said. Now if you wonder why would Minerva and Juno "the ones who came before" would help us ? who would want to help saving some people who made them gone in the first place? won't they want revenge ? maybe they want to mess with Desmond's path for saving the planet and Lucy was a huge block for them since she has been VERY helpful, I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong


another thing is about the conversation that occurred during the credits, you hear 2 voices that we don't recognize who it belongs to but when you listen closely to the 3rd person who said "No" it sounded to me very similar to Desmond's, I have 2 theories about that No.1 is that maybe it was Desmond's son since Subject 16 mentioned "you're son" to Desmond and he was shocked about seeing his father stabbing Lucy , at first I said maybe he was shocked he had seen his father kill his mother! but it won't be possible if Lucy died so moving on to theory No.2 what if Desmond losses his memory after stabbing Lucy and somehow he gets back to the Animus and recover his memory through it and gets shocked when he sees him self stabbing Lucy !

anyway that was my theories that I wanted to share ...

Well referring to the Lucy part, the only reason I believe S 16 could have been talking about her is that Lucy was involved in S 16's testing. Maybe S 16 is warning Desmond that he can't trust her, but like I said, just a theory. Yeah another one of my theories is not to trust Juno, that one seems more likely because the "people before" enslaved the human race after creating them.

Both of your theories about the voices makse sense, just more possibilities.

THE-GRIZZLEY
12-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by lodylody:
Which one? I think I know which ones you mean and yes, it is shocking. *SPOILERS* They heard Desmond screaming - he's becoming Subject 16. I think that's what S16 meant in The Truth for ACB - that Desmond himself was going to be like him (that the Animus has some sort of long-term effect anyway).

If he does become like S 16, I think that's the only way for Desmond to figure it all out. S 16 discovered everything and I think it's because the bleeding effect revealed things he didn't know.

slaro
12-28-2010, 02:57 PM
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ac_freemason.jpg

SquarePolo27
12-28-2010, 03:01 PM
That would be epic if there was like a cult for those who came before in the present day who want the get back those who came before to save the earth in 2012 not knowing that they'll most likely try to rule it again.

I can see the three way confrontation now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

THE-GRIZZLEY
12-28-2010, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by slaro:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ac_freemason.jpg

what is that?

HarlequinsRus
12-28-2010, 11:54 PM
Wow.. This just hit me, and I feel pretty confident about it. Your Desmonds son! Your reliving the memories of Desmond, who is "subject 16".
Here's how I justified it: Desmond, the original Desmond, was captured by abstergo,and relives all his ancestor's memories,and then... ok I just realized how stupid this sounds... Got trapped inside his memories, inside the Animus... He sort of created an alter ego for himself a side effect of the animus, and it is stuck inside the animus. And then, because of the bleeding effect, When Desmond is in the animus, he views subject 16 as a completely difrent person, even in the real world. Which, isn't really the real world, because you are desmonds son, watching Desmond, who thinks their is a subject 16, (his alter ego of sorts) And so IN HIS MEMORIES, there is a subject 16. So in Reality, DESMONDS sons reality, there never was a subject 16. Basically Desmond went off the deep end, and so he is also crazy in his memories.
That probably makes no since, it's 1 AM and I'm on an Itouch, so don't hate too much.

Another theory, you are Desmond, he was with some buds, smoked illegal substances, had a dream about animus' and ****, wakes up, and is like NO it's gone!

flyingeaglemile
12-29-2010, 12:13 AM
Personally, I like the idea of Desmond being subject 16. Here`s how I think it could happen with this theory. S 16 goes crazy and his mind is destroyed and but Abstergo is able to repair his mind except for his short term memory, thus why Desmond doesn`t remember being S 16 but remembers his past. Also would explain how Desmond knows where to find all those clusters/glyphs and knows how to solve them all without the help of others, like he did it before. Idk if it`s just me but S 16 in the animus kind of looked like Desmond just blurred out ( same height/build, lack of hair) and he sounds like an insane Desmond kind of.

Though I doubt Ubi will go this, I just think the idea is really cool.

THE-GRIZZLEY
12-29-2010, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by flyingeaglemile:
Personally, I like the idea of Desmond being subject 16. Here`s how I think it could happen with this theory. S 16 goes crazy and his mind is destroyed and but Abstergo is able to repair his mind except for his short term memory, thus why Desmond doesn`t remember being S 16 but remembers his past. Also would explain how Desmond knows where to find all those clusters/glyphs and knows how to solve them all without the help of others, like he did it before. Idk if it`s just me but S 16 in the animus kind of looked like Desmond just blurred out ( same height/build, lack of hair) and he sounds like an insane Desmond kind of.

Though I doubt Ubi will go this, I just think the idea is really cool.

Yeah I think it's plausible. It was one of my theories. It would definitely explain Desmond's unique connection to S 16.

lodylody
12-29-2010, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by HarlequinsRus:
Wow.. This just hit me, and I feel pretty confident about it. Your Desmonds son! Your reliving the memories of Desmond, who is "subject 16".
Here's how I justified it: Desmond, the original Desmond, was captured by abstergo,and relives all his ancestor's memories,and then... ok I just realized how stupid this sounds... Got trapped inside his memories, inside the Animus... He sort of created an alter ego for himself a side effect of the animus, and it is stuck inside the animus. And then, because of the bleeding effect, When Desmond is in the animus, he views subject 16 as a completely difrent person, even in the real world. Which, isn't really the real world, because you are desmonds son, watching Desmond, who thinks their is a subject 16, (his alter ego of sorts) And so IN HIS MEMORIES, there is a subject 16. So in Reality, DESMONDS sons reality, there never was a subject 16. Basically Desmond went off the deep end, and so he is also crazy in his memories.

It makes sense, but I just don't think they will do this Animus in Animus - to me, if I'm honest, it makes it a bit funnily unreal. I'm pretty sure that Desmond is the present. our other theory is also of this calibre (both would leave me screaming and feeling suicidal). But still, many people are having ideas like yours, so there has to be justification for it, doesn't there?


Originally posted by flyingeaglemile:
Personally, I like the idea of Desmond being subject 16. Here`s how I think it could happen with this theory. S 16 goes crazy and his mind is destroyed and but Abstergo is able to repair his mind except for his short term memory, thus why Desmond doesn`t remember being S 16 but remembers his past. Also would explain how Desmond knows where to find all those clusters/glyphs and knows how to solve them all without the help of others, like he did it before. Idk if it`s just me but S 16 in the animus kind of looked like Desmond just blurred out ( same height/build, lack of hair) and he sounds like an insane Desmond kind of.

I like this idea a bit, but I'm struggling to see how it could work. I agree that S16 sounds and looks like Desmond slightly. Oh! I think I've just thought of something else! "Find me in the darkness. "Who, will most likely be with him in the true darkness? Himself, all alone. Meaning that, his thoughts will be Subject 16's. Maybe they will be similar thoughts, but he won't actually be S16? What if S16 is Desmond's father? Because S16 is still alive, and Lucy is having contact with 'William M. (William Miles, possibly)'.

HarlequinsRus
12-29-2010, 11:59 AM
This whole thing kind of reminds me of inception... the animus within an animus like a dream within a dream