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View Full Version : The Easiest Way is the Ace's Way ( }{0W ?)



Top_Gun_1_0_1
04-21-2006, 08:02 PM
During WWII,If an ace noticed theres someone on their six,whats the best offensive maneuver did they perform?

..I'm not a real top gun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

georgeo76
04-21-2006, 08:04 PM
I think an ace would probably use a defensive maneuver in this case. That defensive maneuver would vary wildly on the particular tactical situation.

LStarosta
04-21-2006, 08:17 PM
Hit the breaks and he'll fly right by.

danjama
04-21-2006, 08:18 PM
F6 gogogo

ImpStarDuece
04-21-2006, 08:20 PM
Pray that his wing man is better than the guy behind him.

LEBillfish
04-21-2006, 08:28 PM
Though as georgeo says it would be impossible to guess without knowing the pilot, planes, situation and so on...........What I can say however is the Japanese were VERY fond of a "Split S" as an escape move.....Yet their planes allowed for such radical movements. Later many seemed to have mastered side slipping to an almost stunning degree. Many accounts I've read went as follows (this would be the gist of it not a quote)....

"I dove on the Ki-43 with a 500' advantage in my P38, just as I began to fire he suddenly jinked left my speed causing me to overshoot as suddenly I heard rounds from his guns striking my fusalage him now 50yards on my 6.......Literally he had flat spun the Ki-43 360 degrees as I passed my only option to dive as hard as I could"......

Lastly, due to the much more manueverable nature of most Japanese planes (roll much better then many accounts) and slower speed....A strafing pass by faster U.S. planes was often met with a sudden hard roll as if to dive away, yet instead of diving continuing it the U.S. plane overshooting, and simply popping back up now on their 6.

However like georgeo said........."That defensive maneuver would vary wildly on the particular tactical situation."

danjama
04-21-2006, 08:41 PM
Its also questionable whether many of these maneuvers would actually work in the game. I fear the answer is No for most of them.

Jumoschwanz
04-21-2006, 09:57 PM
In this sim it also depends on if you are flying full-real or not.
This is because, certain manuevers, as in real life, will hide your plane below the nose of the enemy, permiting you to make a move without being seen! Then the pursuer gets one step behind you, or completely loses you for long enough for you to turn the tables.
Hartmann's "ace in the hole" was to push forward into negative Gs down and out of the sight of the pursuer right at the moment the enemy was pulling lead in a tight turn and he was not visible anyway.
ON a kiddie/arcade/wonder woman server, you are so easy to track with nothing to hide behind and an icon and maybe a big arrow pointing at you, that your best defense is to just not get into the situation at all. Also the unrealistically easy lead-shots that the wonder-woman view allows makes you as easy to hit as a car with a garden hose.

So get into the full-real movement, read some good books written by aces with their accounts of combat, and you will have many more options.

Jumoschwanz

Top_Gun_1_0_1
04-21-2006, 10:24 PM
How will a tough notch ace react when someone is on their six and theres no help available?
(P-51<defensive VS. BF-109<Bandit)example!

*Hammer head
*Tight turn
*Barell roll
*loop
*Split S (defensive)
*cuban 8

Skycat_2
04-21-2006, 10:31 PM
First, he'd have his trim mapped to a slider -- right away his plane would be uberized. If that didn't work, he'd hit the print screen key about a million times and cause enough lag to give himself an envelope of escape.

Jungmann
04-21-2006, 10:37 PM
The one I came across most often in pilot accounts was what they called "shoving everything in the corner" Meaning stick full forward and, say, to the right, stick hard over right, and full right rudder. A dive, a yaw, and a roll, all at once, and if its done fast enough, with a snap. Very hard to follow.

Doesn't work in the game very well. Our FMs don't really snap.

Cheers,

BueJack
04-22-2006, 05:10 AM
A real WW2 ace would push the throttle through the wall, nose down, head for home weaving in jinks while screaming for help!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

russ.nl
04-22-2006, 06:21 AM
Look at it this way: You have only one life and you want to live!!! So you do everything to not have your opponant have a clear shot. You twist and turn, do sizors, low barel rol. Stall your plane if you have to. (though that usually does give him a clear shot) It doesn't matter. Do everything to get behind him and never let him have a clear shot. Never give up.

PBNA-Boosher
04-22-2006, 10:01 AM
Just about everyone I've talked to said "Split-Ess and get your *** out of there."

Top_Gun_1_0_1
04-22-2006, 11:22 AM
as for the offensive or agressive move?

AFJ_Locust
04-22-2006, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
Hit the breaks and he'll fly right by.

LMAO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Xiolablu3
04-22-2006, 11:32 AM
If he is coming with much more energy/speed than you then Split S. (Flick over in a half roll until you are upside down and then pull back on the stick to fly under the attacker back in the opposite dircetion.)

http://www.combataircraft.com/tactics/split_s.asp


If he is going faster he shouldnt be able to follow.

If he is around the same speed or just a little faster then you must use your planes strengths over his. Can you turn tighter? If so turn, varying your direction a little up or down as you turn, so that he cannot lead you. Are you in a faster plane? If so dive and pick up as much speed as possible.

The one thing which is very dangerous and I rarely do is climb, it enables him to catch you and take an easy shot. Even in a slower plane he can climb slightly shallower than you to catch and then pull up sharply at the last moment to shoot. This is one of the easiest shots in the game, dont give it to him on a plate.

rnzoli
04-22-2006, 11:39 AM
if they got someone on their six, probably they were thinking about defensive manouvers, not offensive ones

it is usually just a mistake from the attacker, that can turn the tide, and make the pursuer subject to pursuit

all such manouvers deal with forcing an overshoot, which has a high chance if
- the pursuer's closing speed is high
- the pursuer's turning/rolling speed is lower.

Forcing an overshoot allows the plane on your tail to become a target itself for a short time. Typical such manouvers
- wide barrel roll
- scissors.

AFJ_Locust
04-22-2006, 11:53 AM
It depends on the ac your flying.

If you know what the bandit is flying & you have some idea how his ac preforms compared too yours, That is what will determin what comes next.

Tully__
04-22-2006, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Top_Gun_1_0_1:
http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/vintageaircraft/mustangandcorsairformation12cm.jpg


Bad choice for a sig pic TG, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, click here for forum rules. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921088204/m/4251091304)

Second, it's bad form to "borrow" a pic by hotlinking to someone else's site. If jetplanes.co.uk is indeed your own site then OK, but if not then I suggest it would be a good idea to find a hosting location and upload your own sig (one that meets the restrictions set out in the above link please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

danjama
04-22-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Top_Gun_1_0_1:
http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/vintageaircraft/mustangandcorsairformation12cm.jpg


Bad choice for a sig pic TG, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, click here for forum rules. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921088204/m/4251091304)

Second, it's bad form to "borrow" a pic by hotlinking to someone else's site. If jetplanes.co.uk is indeed your own site then OK, but if not then I suggest it would be a good idea to find a hosting location and upload your own sig (one that meets the restrictions set out in the above link please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

owned

Top_Gun_1_0_1
04-22-2006, 09:40 PM
how do you counter the zoom n boom addicts?

rnzoli
04-23-2006, 01:04 AM
you switch to their radio channel and announce that a large formation of 4-engine enemy bombers is approaching them - from the opposite corner of the map

if that doesn't work, there is very little option, they dominate the fight with their energy advantage

what you can do before being B&Z-d: climb to same level at another point of the map

if you are already under attack: split-S (but this will prevent you from climbing)

one trick may be to do a shallow dive to pick up speed and attrack the attacker to lower altitudes, where he has to throttle back a little thus loosing some of his advantage, and the climbing after him with your reserve speed

ColoradoBBQ
04-23-2006, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Top_Gun_1_0_1:
how do you counter the zoom n boom addicts?

Go faster than your wingman.