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fabianfred
07-25-2007, 06:54 AM
I know this is a flight-sim not a naval one....but aren't the ships about half-size in this sim?
looking at the B-25's on a carrier...trying to re-create the Doolittle raid....only Four of them fill-up one end of the largest carrier....when IRL they got quite a few on one.

Why are the ships so small.... and will they be truer to life in SOW??

fabianfred
07-25-2007, 06:54 AM
I know this is a flight-sim not a naval one....but aren't the ships about half-size in this sim?
looking at the B-25's on a carrier...trying to re-create the Doolittle raid....only Four of them fill-up one end of the largest carrier....when IRL they got quite a few on one.

Why are the ships so small.... and will they be truer to life in SOW??

FritzGryphon
07-25-2007, 06:58 AM
Try measuring them in the FMB. They are the proper size.

M_Gunz
07-25-2007, 07:33 AM
Are you using Escort "Jeep" Carrier? They were short and small.

dbillo
07-25-2007, 08:47 AM
Some pics, here, of the B-25s on the deck of the Hornet:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/misc-42/doolt-a.htm

Of course, I suppose that you have no control over how the game arranges aircraft on a carrier, or do you?

BBB_Hyperion
08-06-2007, 11:13 AM
When you are using fisheye view from game they might look so.

MaxMhz
08-06-2007, 11:37 AM
No they're not.
place two runway lights on the ship (you can elevate rw lights(move in the vertical). Save the mission, open the .mis file and look at the coordinates (in meters, accurate to 1 cm). Do the math http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif All 3D models are designed half-scale but they are 'magnified' in-game, so they get displayed correctly.

grifter2u
08-07-2007, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaxMhz:
No they're not.
place two runway lights on the ship (you can elevate rw lights(move in the vertical). Save the mission, open the .mis file and look at the coordinates (in meters, accurate to 1 cm). Do the math http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif All 3D models are designed half-scale but they are 'magnified' in-game, so they get displayed correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so how does this work ? if for ex your runway on the carrier deck is in fact 1/2 the real length it should be, but the game uses an optical trick to magnify everything 2x and make it look bigger, then during takeoff you still have only 1/2 the length you'd really need however much it is magnified to look visually.

some objects in the sim are definitely scaled wrong, and one modeler some time ago indicated the il2 guidelines for in game objects design was as vague as them having to be about 50% correct in relative size. even the large carriers in il2 look to small to me, but i have never tried to measure them and compare to what their real size should be. wouldnt that be a simpler explanation for what he noticed ?

FritzGryphon
08-07-2007, 11:31 PM
There is no optical trick as you put it.

Simply, the object is made in Max as a fraction of it's total size. The game engine scales the unit up. That's it, nothing more.

As having made the Lexington carrier myself, I know it is within a few meters of it's correct size. If anything is wrong on it, it is the height of the gunners on it. They are slightly too tall (maybe 1.8-2m).

Ultimately, you can measure things yourself in the full mission builder using the grid. I've measured some tanks in the past, and they are always near or exact to their correct size. If you line up planes next to a carrier, you can see they fit just fine (although you can't actually put that many flyable planes on it).

The only objects I have heard being very wrong are things like buildings. The reichstag, for example, is far too small. This is probably due to a lack of information. I have no doubt a few of the more obscure objects could be off by as much as 50%.

For ships and planes and vehicles, there is plenty of precise info about dimensions, so they will be accurate.

LEBillfish
08-08-2007, 01:16 AM
Maybe it's just hard to realize just how big the "planes" are....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/77538.jpg

Jaws2002
08-08-2007, 07:00 AM
I know a lot of things in game are too small. Just bail out next to a Jeep and compare the size of the pilot with the Jeep.

3.JG51_BigBear
08-08-2007, 08:25 AM
Pilots are 20% too large

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/1111086965

Saqson explains the scale thing better in the above thread.

FritzGryphon
08-08-2007, 05:56 PM
Pilot is not too big. He used to be basketball player before the war.

MaxMhz
08-08-2007, 06:50 PM
Pilots need to be bigger than life otherwise the whiner's ego's won't fit. Get your "facts" straight and do a test of two (ask for advice if you don't know how) before starting to kick all kinds of unsubstantiated assumptions onto the forum. - Are you guys related to Raaaid?
Doing a very quick measurement on the Lex I got a length of 264m that's VERY close to R/L, and probably most of the deviation is caused by a hasty and not at all perfect placement of the lights I used to measure with. As for the pilots: who friggin' cares. what's next - size of the trees, stone dimensions in the material maps?
"Knowing" is based on knowledge - you have too much of the first and areway too much lacking in the latter IMHO.

3.JG51_BigBear
08-08-2007, 07:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaxMhz:
Pilots need to be bigger than life otherwise the whiner's ego's won't fit. Get your "facts" straight and do a test of two (ask for advice if you don't know how) before starting to kick all kinds of unsubstantiated assumptions onto the forum. - Are you guys related to Raaaid?
Doing a very quick measurement on the Lex I got a length of 264m that's VERY close to R/L, and probably most of the deviation is caused by a hasty and not at all perfect placement of the lights I used to measure with. As for the pilots: who friggin' cares. what's next - size of the trees, stone dimensions in the material maps?
"Knowing" is based on knowledge - you have too much of the first and areway too much lacking in the latter IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forgot to take your meds today?

SaQSoN
08-09-2007, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Simply, the object is made in Max as a fraction of it's total size. The game engine scales the unit up. That's it, nothing more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The objects in Max were built in 20:1 scale, i.e. 20 times bigger, then original. However, during export into the game engine they were scaled down to 1:1 size.

Thus, all objects in the game are in 1:1 scale.

grifter2u
08-09-2007, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
There is no optical trick as you put it.

Simply, the object is made in Max as a fraction of it's total size. The game engine scales the unit up. That's it, nothing more.

As having made the Lexington carrier myself, I know it is within a few meters of it's correct size. If anything is wrong on it, it is the height of the gunners on it. They are slightly too tall (maybe 1.8-2m).

Ultimately, you can measure things yourself in the full mission builder using the grid. I've measured some tanks in the past, and they are always near or exact to their correct size. If you line up planes next to a carrier, you can see they fit just fine (although you can't actually put that many flyable planes on it).

The only objects I have heard being very wrong are things like buildings. The reichstag, for example, is far too small. This is probably due to a lack of information. I have no doubt a few of the more obscure objects could be off by as much as 50%.

For ships and planes and vehicles, there is plenty of precise info about dimensions, so they will be accurate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thx, the way it was previously put sounded like some optical trick was used to make it look right in size.

glad to hear to it is now openly recognised that most buildings are 50 % to small, which really distorts the sense of speed you should get when you fly over them.

FritzGryphon
08-09-2007, 03:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">glad to hear to it is now openly recognised that most buildings are 50 % to small, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be more concise, some buildings might be as much as 50% too small. It's not enough to assume, you have to measure it.

Simply, buildings are actually small compared to your airplane. My house is less than the wingspan of a Bf-109. This is perfectly normal (unless you are filthy rich).

Skoshi Tiger
08-09-2007, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MaxMhz:
Pilots need to be bigger than life otherwise the whiner's ego's won't fit.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the recent past RAAF pilots tended to be shorter to normal size in height.
As the story goes, we had Macchi tainers for a long time. If the pilot was too tall there was a gap between their legs and the seat. If they ejected both their legs would snap as the seat hit them from below. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It could be an Urban ledgend, but it's a good story anyway.

VW-IceFire
08-09-2007, 09:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by grifter2u:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
There is no optical trick as you put it.

Simply, the object is made in Max as a fraction of it's total size. The game engine scales the unit up. That's it, nothing more.

As having made the Lexington carrier myself, I know it is within a few meters of it's correct size. If anything is wrong on it, it is the height of the gunners on it. They are slightly too tall (maybe 1.8-2m).

Ultimately, you can measure things yourself in the full mission builder using the grid. I've measured some tanks in the past, and they are always near or exact to their correct size. If you line up planes next to a carrier, you can see they fit just fine (although you can't actually put that many flyable planes on it).

The only objects I have heard being very wrong are things like buildings. The reichstag, for example, is far too small. This is probably due to a lack of information. I have no doubt a few of the more obscure objects could be off by as much as 50%.

For ships and planes and vehicles, there is plenty of precise info about dimensions, so they will be accurate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thx, the way it was previously put sounded like some optical trick was used to make it look right in size.

glad to hear to it is now openly recognised that most buildings are 50 % to small, which really distorts the sense of speed you should get when you fly over them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think thats a few buildings are 50% too small. Most of them are generally the right size. Some of them are the right size but the texture may skew things a bit. Nothing should be present that distorts the sense of speed or distance...

russ.nl
08-11-2007, 06:13 AM
Here you can see it is all correct. I think if you would stand between these bombers you would think there is still plenty of room left.

I tried to make it work in fmb but they all start in the air but as a nice single line formation.

http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07326/16-B-25carrier.png

M_Gunz
08-11-2007, 11:15 AM
From Wikipedia:

Relative carrier sizes
(typical examples) Escort carrier ------ Fleet carrier
Length: --------------- 150 m --------------- 260 m
Beam: ----------------- 20 m ---------------- 28 m
Displacement: ----------7500 t -------------- 25,000 t

lorenai__
08-11-2007, 10:01 PM
try to put the figure of soldier near the any building, and then be surprised. i think the buildings are a bit smaller than it is in real, maybe 80% or 90%