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China Flanker 1
08-14-2004, 01:09 AM
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif

China Flanker 1
08-14-2004, 01:09 AM
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif

ASH at S-MART
08-14-2004, 01:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by China Flanker 1:
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Give me a T
Give me a R
Give me a O
Give me a L
Give me a L

What that spell!?!?!
http://home.student.uu.se/s/stmi8017/images1/troll.jpg

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
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AztekWrath
08-14-2004, 01:35 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

__________________________
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Are there any experienced suicide bombers?

woofiedog
08-14-2004, 01:37 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif Good one Ash!

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USS Biddle DLG 34/CG 34

Old_Canuck
08-14-2004, 02:01 AM
Feeding harmless trolls is ok because it deprives the serious trolls.

B-1 for rocket fun.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

DD_NL
08-14-2004, 02:35 AM
http://home.tiscali.nl/ddonline/IL-2/troll.jpg

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Internet_troll

[This message was edited by DD_NL on Sat August 14 2004 at 02:24 AM.]

AlGroover
08-14-2004, 03:16 AM
Haven't flown the 262 much. The engines are very fragile, but if you want to take down bombers, it does a very good job. I built an offline mission where you have to take on a 262 (AI) with a field mod Hurricane over the skies of central Leningrad and the matchup seemed pretty good.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-14-2004, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by China Flanker 1:
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

only partly true, climb to 8-9k and fight a P51, or even worse a SpitIX HF, fight a decent pilot....u will see how "fast" the 262 realy is.

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/FB/Screens/Fw%20190A-4guns.JPG (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665)

TheGozr
08-14-2004, 04:54 AM
Anytimes anywhere with a B1. It will be not even funny.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

[]_---_[] KITT
08-14-2004, 05:29 AM
I hate the way the engine goes to flame with a single bullet hit.

Then again i hate every plane in FB.
Just my two cents anyway.

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Me:"Do you see that pilot flying the Spitfire in the photo above?" [Brief pause] "That's not me"
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Me:"Nooo, i'm the one who lent the camera" -God bless you all!

Maple_Tiger
08-14-2004, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by China Flanker 1:
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

only partly true, climb to 8-9k and fight a P51, or even worse a SpitIX HF, fight a decent pilot....u will see how "fast" the 262 realy is.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)



Me-262. Ceiling 11,500m

Max speed at altitude: 6000m 872km/h TAS. Any higher and performance startes to drop off.


P-47D27. Ceiling 12,810m

Max speed at altitude: 9100m 689km/h TAS. Any higher and performance starts to drop off.

P-51D-20NA. Ceiling 12800m

Max speed at altitude: 7620m 703km/h TAS. Any higher and performance starts to drop off.

Conclusion, you don't take the Me-262 up to 8 or 9km altitude and expect to have an advantage lol; your going to be disapointed.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

mortoma
08-14-2004, 11:01 AM
Yes you're right, but those are specs from the game, not real life. If the high altitude performance of the 262 was on par with real life, you couldn't touch it with anything. Oleg really still needs to tweak the 262 at high altitude. The 262 was mainly used for high altitude bomber interception. If it was in real life like it was in AEP, most of the German pilots would have refused to fly it. Germans were not stupid. But the real 262 could actually fly and manuever quite well up high, and over 30,000 ( 9,100 meters ) feet at at that. Read about the exploits of the 262 pilots and you'll see how the expert pilots ( what few there were ) would tear through the bomber formations doing vertical manuevers at 30,000 feet, over and over again. Try that with the one in the game, you'll only flounder like a dying fish.

WUAF_Badsight
08-14-2004, 01:53 PM
Exactly

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
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Cajun76
08-14-2004, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by China Flanker 1:
i think me-262 is the best fighter in il-2fb,his speed his fire are all very great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://www.chinapro.com/888/dngs.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

His fire is really good, isn't it? 8 .50 cals seems to light them right up. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

And if it seems too easy to set them on fire with bullets, they regularly catch fire without any help. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
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If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson

Bearcat99
08-14-2004, 07:17 PM
If you like flying torches.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

NO NO !!!!! I said a BUD LIGHT!!!!!!

(Some of you whippersnappers may not get that... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

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IMMERSION BABY!!

LEXX_Luthor
08-14-2004, 07:44 PM
China~Flaker may have IL~2/FB as stated, but not AEP.

We all know what happens to other IL~2/FB planes at low altitude when Me~262 keeps speed high.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Dawg-of-death
08-14-2004, 08:38 PM
I don't like jets in FB
Props Forever Baby.........


S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-14-2004, 08:58 PM
why do people dislike the 262 so much? i dont get it ,its a wonderfull machine for that time and unlike the B1 and YP80 it DID see action in WW2
its a shame its always pi$$ed on and left out of the plane set ,why because it was better? that it had jet engines? SO WHAT http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif
and some will say "but there werent that much 262s in WW2"
well lol so are tons of others like the La7 3XB20 ,Ki-84C Mig3U I-185 wich we see all the time

and dont give me that BS about "yea well its too fast we cant catch blablabla" some guys never heard of BnZ from greater alt in a P47 ?
and as pointed out before the 262 is cr@p up high in FB

now whenever a 262 is in a plane set there HAS to be a P80 for the sake of balance bleh its a shame it really is

ok had to put this of my chest lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
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''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

VW-IceFire
08-14-2004, 09:14 PM
Me 262 is a fine aircraft as far as I'm concerned. Even flew a short dynamic campaign with it...its fun to fly and very fast. But its not a dogfighter and it can be tricky sometimes...

Should be a part of more historical plane lists...gets left out because its a jet way too often.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Maple_Tiger
08-15-2004, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Yes you're right, but those are specs from the game, not real life. If the high altitude performance of the 262 was on par with real life, you couldn't touch it with anything. Oleg really still needs to tweak the 262 at high altitude. The 262 was mainly used for high altitude bomber interception. If it was in real life like it was in AEP, most of the German pilots would have refused to fly it. Germans were not stupid. But the real 262 could actually fly and manuever quite well up high, and over 30,000 ( 9,100 meters ) feet at at that. Read about the exploits of the 262 pilots and you'll see how the expert pilots ( what few there were ) would tear through the bomber formations doing vertical manuevers at 30,000 feet, over and over again. Try that with the one in the game, you'll only flounder like a dying fish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I think you greatly missed the whole point.


Only at 6000m did the Me262 acheave a max speed of 872k/h.

Any higher and it would lose power. How much power? I don't know.


Also, the 47 and 51 do have a higher ceiling. The P-47D10 or 27 could reach almost 700km/h at 9000m before its started to lose power or air speed.

You can't tell me the Me-262 can keep up with the P-47 at 9km lol. Even if it could, the Me-262 will not have the advantage it did at 6000m.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

Maple_Tiger
08-15-2004, 06:27 AM
Here's a decent sight.

The specs are the same also.

http://www.ww2guide.com/jetrock.shtml#262

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

IV_JG51_Prien
08-15-2004, 09:25 AM
I'd love to see more 262's on servers.. I love to fly them, and believe it or not it takes some skill to operate one effectively.

I as well, do not understand why people are so dead set against them.. Besides whenever they are the map, just give it 10 minutes and the airbase they are flying out of has so many P-51/47/Spits over it that you can't even get one off the ground anyway.

They aren't unstoppable, just like they weren't in real life.. You just have to employ tactics like anything..

One of the more amusing moments I ever had in FB was one map when I was flying a P-51 against some 262's.. I was flying around up high and saw a 262 below me and dove down on him and shot him down before he knew what happened.. Next thing that comes up in the chat buffer..

"WTF! Since when could a P-51 catch a 262?! BULL****!"

My reply

"When one dives down on you from 5k and is going so fast it's about to break up...."

http://www.jg51.net/downloads/squadbanner.bmp

ASH at S-MART
08-15-2004, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
Here's a decent sight.

The specs are the same also.

http://www.ww2guide.com/jetrock.shtml#262

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool.. Did you see this one?

April 10, 1945. Thirty of fifty German Me 262 jet fighters are shot down by US bombers and their P-51 escorts. The German fighters shoot down ten bombers -the largest loss of the war in a single mission to jets

WOW! That is a lot of jets shot down 30 of 50 and only 10 bombers!

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p1ngu666
08-15-2004, 12:47 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif was a secret plot by the locals, they wanted to have alot of bbq's and bonfires http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

could always have the 2a bomber on servers? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Ki_Rin
08-15-2004, 02:54 PM
I havew to agree with you, sunburst, a lot of ppl dislike the 262 (and all the jets in general)

Most of the time its the La7 or ki84C ppl whining the most, they cant stand to see losing the edge in speed, firepower or climb...

When will ppl learn that jets (at least the 262 and 162) are NOT uber?...it takes a measure of skill to score clean kills in them, and RTB safely..

Sure, they are fast, and in a FR server will hold a huge advantage...in an arcade server, however, they ae even less of a threat than a La7, or ki84S...

They cannot manuver at the same level as any prop, and it takes but a few 7.7mm or .303 to light one up..not to mention the operators duty to constantly be aware of blackouts, treating the throttles gingerly, and keeping overheat under control...

At least in an arcade df server, any decent pilot should NOT be easy meat for a jet jock...

Funny how the arcade df servers are full of fake 109Zs, and over-the-top types like the I-185, La7 3xB20 and ki84Cs, yet more often than not, no jets available...<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:
why do people dislike the 262 so much? i dont get it ,its a wonderfull machine for that time and unlike the B1 and YP80 it DID see action in WW2
its a shame its always pi$$ed on and left out of the plane set ,why because it was better? that it had jet engines? SO WHAT http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif
and some will say "but there werent that much 262s in WW2"
well lol so are tons of others like the La7 3XB20 ,Ki-84C Mig3U I-185 wich we see all the time

and dont give me that BS about "yea well its too fast we cant catch blablabla" some guys never heard of BnZ from greater alt in a P47 ?
and as pointed out before the 262 is cr@p up high in FB

now whenever a 262 is in a plane set there HAS to be a P80 for the sake of balance bleh its a shame it really is

ok had to put this of my chest lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
_''All your Mustangs are belong to us''_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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NegativeGee
08-15-2004, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Feeding harmless trolls is ok because it deprives the serious trolls.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats true, but we have to watch out for the bigtime trolls who like to barge in and steal the catch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Macel
08-15-2004, 05:16 PM
The 262 is a great plane if used right..
The AI doesnt use it right (even on ace, it tries to TnB with the thing).

If you want a decent challenge, do a quick mission, 4 p51 aces (you) vs 8 me262 aces.

DarthBane_
08-15-2004, 05:17 PM
Few times i had privelege of jumping in to a server full of people with 262 available, while everybody drive props. Ultimate joy ride. Unmatched firepower. It should be included more often on servers, specialy after this last ufo patch.

TheJackalx2k
08-15-2004, 08:03 PM
@Macel

For fun, the other day, I set up a mission where it was me by myself in a J8 versus 3 Ace 262as, and 3 Ace 109Gs(forgot which G i stuck in). I shot them all down.

J8 &gt; 262

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-15-2004, 08:09 PM
When you play with unlimited ammo, Oleg strangles a kitten.

Please, think of the kittens

Atomic_Marten
08-15-2004, 08:21 PM
Best in IL-2 is Me163 Komet. Unreal good.

Fly fast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

TheJackalx2k
08-15-2004, 08:22 PM
I don't like to play with unlimited ammo so I'm not even sure if I had it on. I do remember not "spraying and praying" though. I also only use cockpit view so that made it more challenging. It was pure comedy because I couldn't stay on one person for more than a few seconds without having all the other planes firing MK108's at me.

I no doubt saved the track but have no place to hold a 4mb file.

LEXX_Luthor
08-15-2004, 08:26 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Okay, sounds good, especially with cockpit ON.

Now, how you did all this without being tempted to turn OFF the upper wing is beyond me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Upper wing still gives me problems.

I guess the historical ON/OFF switch for upper wing was the gull wing used by Polikarpov and Poland's PZL.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

mortoma
08-15-2004, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Yes you're right, but those are specs from the game, not real life. If the high altitude performance of the 262 was on par with real life, you couldn't touch it with anything. Oleg really still needs to tweak the 262 at high altitude. The 262 was mainly used for high altitude bomber interception. If it was in real life like it was in AEP, most of the German pilots would have refused to fly it. Germans were not stupid. But the real 262 could actually fly and manuever quite well up high, and over 30,000 ( 9,100 meters ) feet at at that. Read about the exploits of the 262 pilots and you'll see how the expert pilots ( what few there were ) would tear through the bomber formations doing vertical manuevers at 30,000 feet, over and over again. Try that with the one in the game, you'll only flounder like a dying fish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I think you greatly missed the whole point.


Only at 6000m did the Me262 acheave a max speed of 872k/h.

Any higher and it would lose power. How much power? I don't know.


Also, the 47 and 51 do have a higher ceiling. The P-47D10 or 27 could reach almost 700km/h at 9000m before its started to lose power or air speed.

You can't tell me the Me-262 can keep up with the P-47 at 9km lol. Even if it could, the Me-262 will not have the advantage it did at 6000m.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I didn't really miss the point. But my point is that even if they did start losing power abouve 6,000 meters, it must not have been too much. The American Bomber Squadrons routinely flew over 6,000 meters. Sometimes
lower though. But the 262s were historically able to do really good manuevers around the bombers no matter how high they flew. And I do believe B-17s sometimes flew as high as 30,000 feet ( 9,000 mtrs. ) but someone correct me on that if I'm wrong. All I know is that I have never read any reports were the 262 struggled at bomber alitude in RL, like they do in AEP. Quite the contrary, they flew really well up there. They apparently didn't need to reach their maximum speed to manuever well and fight well. But in this game, they do neither well above 6,000 meters. The way they fly up high in this game is simply contrary to history, plain and simple.

Copperhead310th
08-15-2004, 10:58 PM
lolMe-262 unbeatable?! lol don't make me laugh!
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828522
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828524
Better ask this JG52 Pilot what he thinks.
http://www.310thvfs.com/killscrn/copperhead1.jpg
Another 262 bites the dust. (http://www.310thvfs.com/userExpandAKill.php?grab=5)

Some where i have some screens of me totally OwNiNg a 262 in a P-39 and again in a P-40E.
Both before AEP. So no the 262 is a worthlss POS. Same as it was in real life.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.310thVFS.com)


[This message was edited by Copperhead310th on Sun August 15 2004 at 10:06 PM.]

WUAF_Badsight
08-15-2004, 11:12 PM
if he was asked he'd probably say the fantasy overmoddeling of the high wing load / laminar flow P-80 is getting itself another kill

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-15-2004, 11:14 PM
copper troll where should your n00bie80 be in a historical planeset ? RIGHT you dont know? maybe it didnt see combat in WW2 ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

oh and about the 262 being a worthless POS in real life,
i guess those allied bomber/fighters being shot down by it think the same then?

were can i meet you and your 1337 uber ACE skilled virtual pilot online ?
i will fly a wortless 262 and you can stay in your P39,P40 sounds fair now does it?
given the 262 is worthless and with your skill i should be no match http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

im sorry the 262 is not a good turn fighter so i stay fast (about 750kph+) is that ok with you?

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

[This message was edited by RK_HH-Sunburst on Sun August 15 2004 at 10:26 PM.]

mortoma
08-15-2004, 11:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
_lolMe-262 unbeatable?! lol don't make me laugh!_
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828522
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828524
_Better ask this JG52 Pilot what he thinks._
http://www.310thvfs.com/killscrn/copperhead1.jpg
http://www.310thvfs.com/userExpandAKill.php?grab=5

Some where i have some screens of me totally OwNiNg a 262 in a P-39 and again in a P-40E.
Both before AEP. So no the 262 is a worthlss POS. Same as it was in real life.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
_http://www.310thVFS.com
_

[This message was edited by Copperhead310th on Sun August 15 2004 at 10:06 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah but who was flying the 262?? Properly flown it's hard to kill. I'll go against you in a P-40 any time. You'd be lucky to get any good shots against me. Those engines aren't so easy to light on fire if you can't get a decent shot off. Now are they??

Copperhead310th
08-15-2004, 11:38 PM
a pictures worth a thousand words chump.
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828529

http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828530

Tell you what sunburst....i'll give you your pick of the Me-262 or Even better the he-162 and i'll blast you from the sky. just tell me when and where. I accept your challange but you better be able to back it up. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif
both the 262 & 162 are inferior to the YP-80 and had the war lasted long enough would have been mence meat to the Shooting Star. the YP-80 was in the westen front at the close of the war for test trials. had they met in combat there in little doubt in my mind as to the outcome.
but if you want to talk about imaginary aircraft...just look at the 109Z that barely got off the drawin board. never actaully flew and both prototypes were destroyed in Allied bombing raids.

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Copperhead310th
08-15-2004, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
_lolMe-262 unbeatable?! lol don't make me laugh!_
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828522
http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=828524
_Better ask this JG52 Pilot what he thinks._
http://www.310thvfs.com/killscrn/copperhead1.jpg
http://www.310thvfs.com/userExpandAKill.php?grab=5

Some where i have some screens of me totally OwNiNg a 262 in a P-39 and again in a P-40E.
Both before AEP. So no the 262 is a worthlss POS. Same as it was in real life.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
_http://www.310thVFS.com
_

[This message was edited by Copperhead310th on Sun August 15 2004 at 10:06 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah but who was flying the 262?? Properly flown it's hard to kill. I'll go against you in a P-40 any time. You'd be lucky to get any good shots against me. Those engines aren't so easy to light on fire if you can't get a decent shot off. Now are they??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True enough...the p-40 kill was a poor pilot. i caught him on the deck with enough altitude to catch him. but he knew i was there. point is he got cocky. you get cocky you get sloppy and being sloppy on the stick get you killed. he was OVERCONFADENT and it lead to his demise.
the P-39 kill i wasn't so lucky. i had to work for it. caught him in a climb trying to escape& i had the speed & E to catch him. that one came down to just good gunnery and knowing the p-39 better than he knew the 262.

the P-80 kill was all skill. Roy is a damn good pilot. and i'm sure he know the Me-262 fairly well. but again it is a case of overconfadence.
i can take on most anyone and win in the p-80 jet on jet and that is a fact. it's not that i'm that good of a pilot. i'm not. i'm even poor shot in most cases. but i KNOW the strengths of the p-80. i know how to properly fly it. and how to fight in it. i am also very aware of the strengths and limitations of the me-262 & He-162. so i know how to fight them in the p-80 and how to kill them. enough said.

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Copperhead310th
08-16-2004, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:
copper troll where should your n00bie80 be in a historical planeset ? RIGHT you dont know? maybe it didnt see combat in WW2 ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

oh and about the 262 being a worthless POS in real life,
i guess those allied bomber/fighters being shot down by it think the same then?

were can i meet you and your 1337 uber ACE skilled virtual pilot online ?
i will fly a wortless 262 and you can stay in your P39,P40 sounds fair now does it?
given the 262 is worthless and with your skill i should be no match http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

im sorry the 262 is not a good turn fighter so i stay fast (about 750kph+) is that ok with you?

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
_''All your Mustangs are belong to us''_

[This message was edited by RK_HH-Sunburst on Sun August 15 2004 at 10:26 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
hmmm where were they...here's where they were.
shooting down Adolf Galland in a me-262.

James Finnegan. P-47 pilot, 50th Fighter Group Finnegan describes shooting down Adolf Galland's Me 262 in April 1945


I was leading the top flight cover of P-47s that was escorting B-26s to their target. As I gazed down, I saw two objects come zipping through the formation and two bombers blew up immediately. I watched the two objects go through the bomber formation and thought "That can't be a prop job, it's got to be one of those 262 jets". I was at about 13,000 ft and estimated them to be at about 9-10,000. They were climbing and I pulled a split-S towards the one that turned left and almost ended up right on top of him, about 75 yards away. I gave a three second burst and saw strikes on the right hand engine and wing root. I was going so fast I went right through everything and guessed my speed at about 550 mph. I recorded it as a probable. I was flying a D-model Thunderbolt with a bubble canopy, a natural metal finish and a black nose. The Me 262 had a green and brown mottled camouflage with some specks of yellow. That turned out to be my last flight in a P-47. My kills for the war were an Me 109 and a Fw 190, in addition to the Me 262.

Adolf Galland, describing the same incident:


I was shot down by a Republic P-47D flown by a man named James Finnegan, whom I met some years later and we became friends. We were intercepting bombers near Neuberg. I was leading a flight and I attacked from astern. My rockets did not fire but I poured 30 mm cannon shells into one bomber which fell in flames and flew right through the formation, hitting another. I could not tell if that bomber was finished off, so I banked around for another run, all the while my jet was receiving hits from the bomber's defensive fire. Suddenly my instrument panel disintegrated, my canopy was shattered and my right knee was struck. I was losing power and was in great pain. I thought about parachuting out but realized that might be dangerous as some of our pilots had been strafed upon exiting their jets. I flew for the deck and headed for this field at the air base, which was under attack. I cut the power to my good engine and thumped across the field. My nose wheel had been flattened, smoke was pouring from the plane. I climbed out to get away in case it should explode, only to find aircraft dropping bombs and firing rockets at me.

Need i post more? i'm a troll? I'm only posting the FACTS. better look in the mirror before you start calling anyone a noobie. as for being a noobie i've been flying in this sim for 3 years now. how long have you been here? thaaats right. now move along lil' noob.

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ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:
oh and about the 262 being a worthless POS in real life, i guess those allied bomber/fighters being shot down by it think the same then?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I dont know about worthless.. but did you see this link?

http://www.ww2guide.com/jetrock.shtml#262

From which I cound

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>April 10, 1945. Thirty of fifty German Me 262 jet fighters are shot down by US bombers and their P-51 escorts. The German fighters shoot down ten bombers -the largest loss of the war in a single mission to jets<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shot down 30 of the 50 jets and only 10 bombers lost... Now I dont know what the definition of a POS *is* but one thing for sure.. It wasnt all un-beatable plane

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WTE_Galway
08-16-2004, 12:28 AM
look at the date of that quote Ash_smart

by that stage of the war those 262's would have been flown by 15 year old kids with 10 hours flying time taking on flights of bombers and escorts numbering in the 100's

it says a bit for the 262's they even managed to get 10 kills

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
look at the date of that quote Ash_smart

by that stage of the war those 262's would have been flown by 15 year old kids with 10 hours flying time taking on flights of bombers and escorts numbering in the 100's

it says a bit for the 262's they even managed to get 10 kills<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Funny.. How the Lw uses that excuse for the end of the war with regards to the wonder planes.. But they dont do the same for the begging of the war with regards to P40 and P39s pilots.. WRT experance. But I digress.. One thing for sure.. The jet was not that hard to defeat.. Many did! Now you can blame tatics, Hitler, Kids, etc.. But the fact remains.. They were not that uber! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for kids.. if the 15 year olds were the VETS.. Becuase who else would you trust with your best plane? Then were the 12 and 13 year olds flying the 109 and 190s?

I know the He162 was designed with the inexperanced pilot in mind.. But the Me262 was a very complex plane.. I doubt many KIDS took the wheel.. Some? Sure, but exceptions to the rule IMHO

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Snow_Wolf_
08-16-2004, 12:38 AM
it not impossible to catch the me-262 (with high advantage) it not as uber as everyone thinks it is, The engines for once goes into flames right away once u get hit. Compare to other german planes it amour is lacking . Beside firepower , high speed , and fuel effecient, the me-262 is no different then anyother plane in this game having it postive and negatives.

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"Master the art of Speed without ever getting a Ticket"

Fehler
08-16-2004, 02:03 AM
Hmm, even after all those hits, Adolph Galland was able to land the plane and get out alive. Kind of shows me that it was a good aircraft, to take such a beating and still get it's pilot home - isnt that what made the jug so good?

Seriously Copperhead, your patriotism clouds you appreciation for the technical marvels from the "Other" side. If German weapons were so terrible as you think they were, then WWII should have lasted a month at most... ie. Look at the last two desert battles as an example. Iraq was poorly equipped and it's soldiers ineffective. Answer this question; why did it take the combined military might if the USA, USSR, Great Britain, and all the allies to defeat Germany?

I do agree with you on some points. The best team won, but you cannot allow that fact to bias your opinions so much, unless you have little interest in world history and more interest in the world according to Copperhead.

The 262 was a technical marvel in it's day. Yes some were shot down. Can you name an American fighter type that didnt get shot down?

Also, have you not learned anything flying IL2/FB? When attacking a bomber force, what is your mission? To kill the bombers, not get in digfights above them. This leaves you vulnerable to attack from escorting fighter from above. Hmm, looks exactly like the text you quoted. So where was the German mistake? Not having cover for the bomber interceptors. So where does the fault lie; with the plane, or the planning?

In it's role, the 262 was a fine weapons system. It had enough speed to dictate most of it's battles. And produced in greater numbers, it may have had a greater impact on bomber-intercept efforts during WWII.

Again, I dont have a problem with your belief in American superiority, but to say that no other weapon system was better or used more effectively demonstrates closed mindedness on your part.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Nanuk66
08-16-2004, 03:17 AM
Ahh u got in b4 me Fehler!

All the Galland quote tells me is that Adolf got bounced by fighters with a higher alt advantage while he was concentrating on whether the 2nd bomber he had hit was damaged enough or whether he should make a second pass at it. And all this time getting shot at by every bomber gunner in range of him.

And that quote was suppose to show wot a POS the 262 was?
Do you even read the quote b4 u posted it?

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------

_Neveraine_
08-16-2004, 06:39 AM
Someones Trolling and or compensating http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Cajun76
08-16-2004, 08:35 AM
Am I mistaken, or do the pilots who want the 262 in servers more just want to hop in and shoot down prop jobs for 'easy' kills? Sounds like AirQuake to me, whatever server you fly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif A coop mission with objectives would be cool. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Yes, the 262 was a definate threat in the war, and yes, the P-80 didn't see active service. I daresay in could have been pressed into service sooner had it been needed. However, Allied air power like P-47s and P-51s were capable of dealing effectively with the 262. Additionally, pretty much only veteran pilots (experten) were used to form the elite 262 squadrons, IIRC. Not 15 year old Hitler Youth. How old was Galland, and how much experince did he have? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@Fehler: The Iraq wars have no bearing on this example. If it was WWII standards, either side with the power and initiative would have carpet bombed everything in sight, and would have accepted much higher causualties (civilian and military) in both offensive and defensive operations. Totally different doctrine and standards.

And for those who want to jump on this to preach their opinion of this: I have neither stated my support nor opposition to war(s) in Iraq. No need to try to convince me or anyone else of your veiw either. Irrelevent to the discussion in that form.

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-16-2004, 08:53 AM
the 262 was far far ahead of anything the allieds could throw at the axis in numbers and it was good at were it was designed for but no its not unbeatable and i never said that it was
and that quote about 30 out 50 262s shot down?
what does that proof? yes its not unbeatable with
kids in it with little training (no $hit sherlock http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif )
but our anti luftwaffe guys dont see that they always look at the surface.....

oh and copper all nice and all but you dislike anything the luftwaffe had so im not even botherd to debate with you

i was right afteral about the 262 always being pi$$ed on lol
some anti luft guys just have to come in and voila im right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

oh copper troll im a n00bie ? i dont like to show off and normaly dont but here
goes http://greatergreen.com/il2/stats/search.php?sort=3&name=

http://www.hell-hounds.de
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''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

[This message was edited by RK_HH-Sunburst on Mon August 16 2004 at 08:07 AM.]

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-16-2004, 09:02 AM
nt

WOLFMondo
08-16-2004, 09:08 AM
Once we get the Tempest V we'll see just how uber the 262 is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Imagine if the LW had 3-4000 262's all flown by even slighty experianced pilots with none waiting fighter/bomber conversion, the allies still would have won but the price would have been allot higher and the war longer.

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Cajun76
08-16-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
...
Imagine if the LW had 3-4000 262's all flown by even slighty experianced pilots with none waiting fighter/bomber conversion, the allies still would have won but the price would have been allot higher and the war longer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, that's almost exactly what Galland said. Very bottom. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Good thing for all concerned.

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.com/aircraft/day/me262_text.html


Sunburst, where are you getting this info about kids flying 262s? Galland and his squad were hardly green. Many remaining veterans were flying 262s near the end of the war, not Hitler Youth. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
Additionally, pretty much only veteran pilots (experten) were used to form the elite 262 squadrons, IIRC. Not 15 year old Hitler Youth. How old was Galland, and how much experince did he have? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally! Which is not to say there were not any 15 year olds flying 262 for the Lw.. Only if any.. They were surly the exception and not the rule.

Did you notice on that link that it said..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>An example of this is the Me262's wing. The characteristic swept design was the result of a need to place the center of gravity aft to compensate for heavier then expected engines. It was only later that the benefits of swept wings were realized.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I had heard others say that in the past.. But never found any proof to suport it.. If true they stumbled opon the sweept wing benifits.. Very interesting

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Zayets
08-16-2004, 11:40 AM
In game,at least offline,262 is pretty easy to be downed in anything able to do 300 mph. Or something close to 500 kmh. YP80 will have no problems at all with it. I think He162 is a pretty fair match to the YP80 but fuel is so short on this one ...
Noticed also that you have to pump some serious lead into the YP80 while in the He162 but still...
P47,P51 are more than even opponents to 262 especially if the sky is full of them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I have seen once a very good 262 driver online.You just couldn't catch this guy,so fast he was! True though that he didn't scored too many hits,but he was never touched.Or at least seemed this way.Good guy,good guy, I forgot his name though because all the blues were flying 262's being on a vulching mission above ther red base http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 11:57 AM
The 262 was undoubterly a fine aircraft, you msut remember that turbo jets at that time were very complex and could explode at any moment.

Facts:

Me262's body was based on a shark (Take a look and you'll see)

After the end of a mission instead of repairing the turbo jets the germans would put a new one on because it was faster

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
Facts:

Me262's body was based on a shark (Take a look and you'll see) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL! FACT?

Ah.. ok my turn..

Emmmmm... Ok I got one...
FACT!

The prop of the 190 was based on a clover flower

Good? Oh.. allmost forgot.. (Take a look and you'll see)

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 12:13 PM
Its true

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
Its true<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So is the clover statment! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 12:24 PM
If u dont believe me, thats ur problem

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
If u dont believe me, thats ur problem<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ditto

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 12:35 PM
You dont think the me262 body was modeled on a sharks body? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

You have much to learn

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
You dont think the me262 body was modeled on a sharks body? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

You have much to learn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh.. you missunderstand me.. NOTE I never said it was or was not based on a shark.. I simply thought you were playing a game.. The game where you make wild A statments and refer to them as FACTS with not one shread of proof to suport it.. It is a fun game that alot of people play here.. I just wanted to play along.. it's kind of fun sometimes! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 12:42 PM
Oh, sorry http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
Oh, sorry http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No Problem.. Say.. have you seen the new Me262 3D art varient that Gibbage is working on? Check it out.. looks good!

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Adjust_Front_2.jpg

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Adjust_Front_View.jpg

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Adjust_Front_3.jpg

Here is one of the skin

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Final_UVW_Unwrap_Capture.jpg

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Side_View_Mesh.jpg

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Paint_Lateral_Line.jpg

Not 100% sure but I think those are 6x20mm and not the standard 3x30s we are use to?

http://www.fred-hsu.com/there/developer/builder_tutorial/paint_shark/Perspective_Final_Shark.jpg

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 12:59 PM
You can see the Me262 is that shark http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
You can see the Me262 is that shark http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What Shark?

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Lord-Raptor
08-16-2004, 01:01 PM
The shark in the pictures

ASH at S-MART
08-16-2004, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
The shark in the pictures<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh? Oh.. that skin with the teeth.. No my guess is that is just a flying tigers kind o skin for the Me262 in the pictures.. How did you put it? (Take a look and you'll see) In that is all the proof I need around here.. When playing the game of no proof! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Xiolablu3
08-16-2004, 06:44 PM
One .303 bullet is all it takes to bring your Me262 down m8.

And belive me when there are 8 .303 guns firing at you all at once, those hurricanes have never been so deadly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kaesebrot.
08-18-2004, 11:18 AM
I guess the engines were the strongest advantages/disadvanteges of the 262.

They gave it that incredible power, but they were very fragile, and more than once it didnt even take a bullet to let them catch fire.

In its role as a bomber-interceptor, it was unbeatable in terms of Speed and Firepower... but very vulnerable on the other side

Kurfurst__
08-18-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:

Me-262. Ceiling 11,500m

Max speed at altitude: 6000m 872km/h TAS. Any higher and performance startes to drop off.

P-47D27. Ceiling 12,810m

Max speed at altitude: 9100m 689km/h TAS. Any higher and performance starts to drop off.

P-51D-20NA. Ceiling 12800m

Max speed at altitude: 7620m 703km/h TAS. Any higher and performance starts to drop off.

Conclusion, you don't take the Me-262 up to 8 or 9km altitude and expect to have an advantage lol; your going to be disapointed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tiger is right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The 262 aint as fast as higher altitudes as it is at 6000m.

For comparison, Me 262 speeds at the other fighters critical altitudes:

at 7600m : 865 km/h
at 9100m : 845 km/h
All TAS

At 12 000m, it does 760 km/h, so the Ta-152 can almost catch it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

One reason I can think of the prop fighter`s higher ceiling is that they developed their best ROC at much lowers speeds, hence lowers speeds were enough; the other possibilty I feel to be big likelyhood is that the 'service ceiling' was only officially laid down, as the plane did not have pressurized cocpit; at least the ME 163`s service ceiling was limited solely because of this. And don`t expect much operation above 8-9000m from those props either; the lack of pressurized cocpit made it rather theoretical, there`s a reason why TRUE high alt fighters were always built with that. It`s a very tiring enviroment for the pilot if he has to breath pure oxigen.

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