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View Full Version : Errr so I'm chasing this Betty in my Brewster Buff and...



Worf101
05-01-2006, 10:14 AM
she proceeds to leave me choking on her exhaust fumes. Are you telling me the Betty could so easily out run a Monoplane fighter? Wow...

Da "Wait up a minute I want to shoot you" Worfster

Crash_Moses
05-01-2006, 10:42 AM
Betty max speed
383kmh at sea level
425kmh at 4200m

Buffolo max speed
425 kmh at sea level
480 kmh at 4700m

And the F2A-2 was even faster. Nope, ya shoulda caught her. Was she climbing? The Betty can climb pretty good. What was your altitude? What was your fuel mixture? What stage turbochargers? Were you trimmed straight and true? Trim has a big effect on speed. Was your plane inverted?

horseback
05-01-2006, 10:52 AM
Well, the Betty was a fast bomber, and the Buffalo was a bit of a slug, so yeah, in RL it would be a long chase, but the Brewster should still be a bit faster, and you would base your chase on whether you had the time (and fuel) to overhaul the Betty, light her up, and make it back to the barn.

However, if the Betty is ai, all bets are off in the current 4.04/4.05 versions of FB/PF. It looks very much to me as though the ai get an extra 15-20% of top speed when the player is chasing them to go with their other (bogus) advantages...

In short, if you're playing offline campaigns, bubba, I recommend making a copy of the game, renaming it & backpatching to 4.01 (less wobble) and playing your campaigns on that version while you can still play offline in the current version.

cheers

horseback

GerritJ9
05-01-2006, 02:12 PM
If you read "Buffaloes over Singapore" you will find several occasions where the G4Ms would simply fly away from the RAF Buffalo Mk.1. The only sure way for a successful attack was for the Commonwealth pilots to have an altitude advantage, allowing them to build up speed in a diving attack. The Buffalos were overloaded with extra "necessary" equipment that reduced their climb rate, acceleration and speed when compared to the F2A-2 on which it was based, plus it had an 1100 hp Cyclone rather than the 1200 hp engine the F2A-2 had. As a result of all this "necessary" equipment the RAF Buffalo Mk.1 was some 250 kg heavier than the ex-Belgian B-339Bs and the Dutch B-339C and B-339D.
To rectify matters, the RAF stripped at least one Buffalo of all unnecessary items, reduced fuel quantity and ammunition load, ending up with an aeroplane that was about 1,000 lbs lighter than a fully loaded standard Buffalo Mk.1. It is not known whether other Buffalos were so modified and if so, how many. By then the rapidly worsening situation in Malaya probably made it necessary to keep every single fighter available for immediate use. One thing that the RAF could and did do was reduce fuel load to 60% on all missions except very long range ones.
What should also be borne in mind is that the three Buffalo variants are all undermodelled in this sim as far as top speed at altitude is concerned, the B-239 being the least affected. Even so, it is about 20 kph IAS down on speed at rated altitude. The other two suffer greater discrepancies.

Stigler_9_JG52
05-01-2006, 06:10 PM
GerritJ9 wrote:
If you read "Buffaloes over Singapore" you will find several occasions where the G4Ms would simply fly away from the RAF Buffalo Mk.1.

And not just the Betties. The Nells and Lilys were also scooting away from the Buffs with relative ease. Of course, the Buffs were throwing oil, and some were refusing even to get up to altitude like they should have been able to.

GerritJ9
05-02-2006, 05:12 AM
The RAF specified all the extra "necessary" equipment when they ordered the B-339E. To name but a few examples: two landing lights where all other variants had only one; flare chutes and bins for flares (as if fighters drop flares on every mission they fly); ammunition load doubled to 500 r.p.g. instead of 250 (useful, I admit), armour for the front of the petrol tanks and cockpit sides. Since 1200 hp Cyclones weren't available they were fitted with 1100 hp engines. The "W" series had new engines, but those fitted to the "AN" series were reconditioned ex-airline engines and these especially were troublesome. However, not everybody disliked the Buffalo. The pilots of 67 Sqn in Burma preferred it to the Hurricane IIB once the bugs were sorted out for instance. Of course, since 67 Sqn was the first flying the Buffalo in S.E. Asia they had the most experience with it.
The USN went more or less the same route with the F2A-3, ordering extra fuel tanks to be fitted, increasing the ammunition load to 400 r.p.g. and other "useful" stuff- but retaining that hideous and useless telescopic gunsight when the F4F was being fitted with a reflector sight. As with the B-339E an overweight slug resulted, though at least the F2A-3 had a 1200 hp Cyclone.

HotelBushranger
05-02-2006, 08:34 AM
It's cos it's in RAF markings, change them to Finnish and the Betty will come up real quick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
05-02-2006, 08:52 AM
they may base the performance off manufactured ones. they where rather poor...

the betty is rather quick, just use level stab with teh throttles nailed, a fast cruise http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Worf101
05-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
Well, the Betty was a fast bomber, and the Buffalo was a bit of a slug, so yeah, in RL it would be a long chase, but the Brewster should still be a bit faster, and you would base your chase on whether you had the time (and fuel) to overhaul the Betty, light her up, and make it back to the barn.

However, if the Betty is ai, all bets are off in the current 4.04/4.05 versions of FB/PF. It looks very much to me as though the ai get an extra 15-20% of top speed when the player is chasing them to go with their other (bogus) advantages...

In short, if you're playing offline campaigns, bubba, I recommend making a copy of the game, renaming it & backpatching to 4.01 (less wobble) and playing your campaigns on that version while you can still play offline in the current version.

cheers

horseback

Yeah, I was playing offline. The Betty was ahead and above. I tried catching up by staying level and trim and at best I could "stay even". When I tried to climb to her... pheh.. fugedaboutit she just walked away. Guess I'll have to be satisfied with downing Zekes and Oscars for the time being.

Ernst_Rohr
05-02-2006, 06:02 PM
I have a similar campaign running right now, and have seen the same thing. Its really annoying, but according to everything out there, historically correct.

The only time I have seen that a Buff can catch a Betty on level alt, is if the Betty turns for any reason. The Betty bleeds a lot of speed in any sort of turn, and thats about the only thing the Buff has going for him.

The counterpoint to that is trim. I (admittedly) have just started to get the whole trim thing down, along with prop pitch, and it really made a huge difference in speed for me as well. Finding the "sweet spot" at altitude for max speed was a huge rush, and my Ki-43 performance skyrocketed when I did. I havent flown the Buff as much, but it might be worth experimenting with.