View Full Version : i know why we dont have a wider view

06-05-2007, 06:58 AM
this game has a photographic pinhole camera perspective with 3 possible angles of view

on 90 fov you can check how moving gunsight to the side of the screen makes it grow

if the fov was 150º this distortion would be unbearable with this perspective

but photographs and therefore the game as well have a golden rule to appear realistical:

the field of view of the photograph and the fov the fotograph takes from your eyes must be the same

this means that if you take a 150º view with big distortion all distortion will be gone if the screen takes a field of your view of 150º

so all i ask from developers is plz dont kill my idea and at least consider making an analogic growing zoom(not zooming on steps) that can be set on a slider

then the slider can be set to the z axe of 6dof and change fov accordinly to match the fov with which you are looking the screen

06-05-2007, 07:03 AM

06-05-2007, 07:07 AM
I think a 6DoF system is planned for BoB. That will effectively incorporate the "sliding" zoom you mentioned.

06-05-2007, 07:12 AM
The naturalistic 6 DOF of BOB will fix the artifical views of IL-2. You can experience it now in FSX, and BOB II from Shockwave.

06-05-2007, 07:15 AM
And all this time I thought it had something to do with the size of the monitor

06-05-2007, 07:29 AM
yeah but what i want is my screen to seem like a window

this can be achieved keeping game fov and fov with which you look at the screen the same

what im affraid is that bob will have a fov that increments in steps like now which would make my idea unattainable

if not all i need to develop my idea is zoom on a slider and axign z axe of 6dof to that slider, then it would be a matter of using correct imput in the axe to keep both fov equal

06-05-2007, 09:20 AM
First off, IL-2 has more than 3 fields of view. Map a key to increase and decrease field of view commands to see how many.

Second, how will it be possible to maintain the same field of view when 3" of physical head movement translates to 12" of in game head movement?


06-05-2007, 09:50 AM
I suggest that with this in mind evolutions next logical stage will be eyes on a slider..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If you're a creationist then prepare to be Pwned! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

06-05-2007, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
so all i ask from developers is plz dont kill my idea


I'm not sure how to say this, best to be blunt-

You seem to be under the impression that the dev team is even considering your ideas. I'm not sure why this is or what you seem to feel you are involved with, but please prepare yourself for the very real possibility that the dev team has no notion that your idea even exists, and that they would reject it in favor of their own plans in a heartbeat even if they knew about it

Don;t use this sim to determine what BoB is and is not capable of. The two sims do not use the same sim engine

06-05-2007, 12:10 PM
In other words the Universe does NOT rotate around YOU personally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Self-obsession is a terrible thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

06-05-2007, 12:22 PM
If you use the window idea for TrackIR, then you have eliminated 6DOF because you will keep banging your head on a glass pane if you lean in too far.

06-05-2007, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
In other words the Universe does NOT rotate around YOU personally

Of course! It rotates around ME. Rather impersonally, though.

06-05-2007, 06:41 PM
Raaaid invented a new word! Now, let's figure out the physics surrounding said new word!

06-05-2007, 06:49 PM
You can do a crude version of "zoom on a slider" using key mapping for your controller. People have described this before.

I use the X-52 so what I did in the profile software was to set the POV hat up position as the reduce FOV and hat down as widen FOV. I used the advanced command feature to have repeat every .1sec or something like that when the button is held. It's not very elegant because it still goes stepwise, but there is what 8 or 9 steps between wide and narrow FOV? I also have another button set for min/max FOV for quick jumps to and from the gunsight.

Someone could probably accomplish the same thing by assigning a key command to each FOV position and then setting bands on the slider to correspond to the various positions.

Besides, how many fields of view do you really need? You've got wide and normal for flying and narrow for shooting. Everything in between is kind of superfluous.

As for whether or not the FOV depicted in the game is precisely that which matches the FOV the player has to the monitor, whoopdeedoo. The vast majority of players probably spend most of their time having fun playing the game and spend very little time agonizing over whether or not the cockpit view they see is rigorously geometrically correct given their current head position.

06-06-2007, 08:36 AM
i think developers read every single suggestion of this forum

i deduce this because once i said that with overheat off you couldnt close radiator, next patch it was fixed

so are you suggesting my perfect logic of developers listening me(though ignoring me) is argument to justify i think the univers rotates around me?

well actually sometimes i feel like the future of the universe depends on me

but doesnt the butterfly effect make the outcome of this universe depend on every single being?

as an example the bad little action of an unknown person turning away hitler from art school developed in wwii

of course a good litle action can change things into a bad ending that would have been good if the litle action had actually been bad

but how would you feel if you knew that without that little bad action things would have been much better

if little bads end up improving things as usual well you cant say it was thank to you but if they do worsen it in a way the bad future is your fault and you should be rewarded accordingly

though in my opinion is not future outcome what should be used into judging decisions but only the intention behind those choices

06-06-2007, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i think developers read every single suggestion of this forum
Look raaaid made a funny

06-06-2007, 09:08 AM
Well, they only read raaaid's ones, so they can steal his ideas and become rich and famous.

06-06-2007, 09:18 AM
As allready mentioned FB allready has trim on a slider, if you have a programmable stick like the X52.

The problem is, that human eyes usuall just see a field of around 37 degree without any distorsion. If you do a 3D rendering this is the max. angle you usually select with a realistic feeling, with a wider field of view, you get interessting effects, but the objects looks allways a bit strange.

So the problem is the limited size of the screen, no way to fix it.

06-06-2007, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i think developers read every single suggestion of this forum

i deduce this because once i said that with overheat off you couldnt close radiator, next patch it was fixed

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Do not base your conclusions off of a single data point

06-06-2007, 11:53 AM

Looks allright to me....

06-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Actually, Raaaid's notion here is not out to lunch.

His observation that if you view an image of a certain field angle, to see it without distortion and at true scale you must position yourself such that your eyes are on-axis and at the appropriate distance. Perfectly correct.

Games render their virtual worlds using the Gnomonic projection, which is the one and only projection that, when projected on a flat screen, allows a distortion-less view when you're at the correct position. Projecting on a curved screen (concave side toward the player) will only exaggerate the distortions.

And having a 6dof system "detect" your distance from the screen so as to automatically re-size the FOV so as to attempt to maintain 1:1 scale is quite feasible. Of course, for the really wide views you'd be pressing your nose against the screen, and you might need a pair of my trusty strong reading glasses! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

But I have to say that in this case, Raaaid's not wandering around waaaay out there in fantasy land. The only question is whether his idea has real-life merit.


06-07-2007, 04:14 AM
what upsets me is that my idea is not only good but very easy to make(assign fov to z axe of 6dof) though is ignored everywhere

and i think the reason for this is that actually nobody understands this idea but me, not because im more intelligent but because ive spent years studying on how to represent reality accurately on a flat surface

for the developers to put this option in bob they just need to assign fov variation to z axe of 6dof in such a way that fov of game and fov with which you see the screen are the same

with 90º fov youd be at 50cm of the screen more or less, you can even get wider fovs than now at 25cm

didnt oleg said this game was due to all fans?

06-07-2007, 04:26 AM
Not to spoil your fun, but if I get this correct you're only talking about horizontal FOV...
Last I checked there were horizontal and vertical dimensions to a flat surface.
You can get a wider VOF in the vertical - If you use a portrait type of monitor like I have (Samsung 740B) - In fact this happens automatic in-game. You also seem to ignore only LCD monitors are realy flat. Sony Triniton and some others are cylindrical, and most CRT's are convex
Gnomonic projection is a method to display (sections of) a sphere on a flat surface (used in map-making e.g. This is hardly related to Perspective projection like used in the OpenGL library - OpenGL uses this method (http://www.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca/%7Ecs414/notes/ogl_vvol.html) to project perspective on screen/view window