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View Full Version : How to fly the Hurricane online (good to know things)



F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 06:08 AM
Well..... I have on several occasions stated that the hurricane is inferior to the 109 in almost all respects but initial turn so its fair to give some tips on the hurricane (wich I like very much for its crappyness).
This doesnt at all mean that it cant shot down 109's or other enemies.

If one are aware of a few things about the Hurricane it can infact be quite good against 109's, fw190's, bf110's, he111 and stukas.

Its important to know the differences between the variants of hurricanes and also very good to know the opposition well so U know what U can get away with and not.

Hurricane Mk1 have 8x 7.69mm mgs only and u are either very good or lucky or both if u succeed to shoot down a 109 on a server like GreaterGreen.

The Mk 2b has 12 mg's and that one is clearly better. Its important to know that the hurri mg's are active to 800m.

The Mk 2C has 4x 20mm hispano cannons and they are active to 800m aswell and has the greatest punch of the hurris.

The Mk2 fieldmodel (russian variant)
has 2x20mm ShVAK cannons and 2x12.7mm ubs heavy mg's and have almost same punch as the Mk 2C but the russian weapons have better trajectory and are both active to 1000m.

The only drawback with the cannon equipped hurricanes is that the ammo dont last long and cant be used in the sprayingmanner of mg's.
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All hurricanes have the same poor performance although the later ones are a few kph faster.
It has too slow roll especially in slowest and highest speeds. It accellerates very poorly so its dangerous to get low on Energy, wich easlily happens low on the deck when trying to evade 109's. In these very slow speeds the hurricane cant do much anything while the 109 just fly away or climb above. The 109 can slow down much faster than a hurricane aswell, especially from high speed, so its not unlikely that a 109 just brakes and turn inside a hurricane in a sharp Energy bleeding turn.
In the highest speeds the hurricane is also very poor and it turns worse than a 109, mainly because the 109 can lose its speed faster and make a sharper turn. The hurricane is actually difficult to slow down to best turning speed in a dive or from high speed in general and to dive away from a 109 is to put oneself in a bad situation.
It is however possible to make it harder for a 109 to target a hurri in a dive and that is to idle the engine and go down in spirals, barrel rolls, and bunting (can be combined).
The main reason for going down could be that there might be friendlies down there or some nice clouds to hide in. Its always good to be near clouds in a hurricane because it doesnt only enable U to escape but also a chance to get an opportunity to point your guns at the enemy wich will be very difficult against a good 109 driver out in the open. Clouds also provide a place to cool down an overheated engine, especially useful on dessert maps where the hurricane overheats very fast.

Since the 109's and fw190 are so fast compared to hurris one have to try to maximize the shooting opportunities.
Those who fly on GreaterGreen know that a hurri normally cant get many seconds of shooting if not a 109 have ended up in a bad situation or makes serious mistakes.
If the 109 stay in vertical fighting a hurri may get a head on pass or a couple of seconds on a BnZing 109 wich fast get beyond 500m.
If a 109 climbs away the hurri might get a few deflection shots but a 109 really can get beyond shootingrange by flying level and do small bunting movements (wavelike) to avoid the peashooters.
The experienced 109 flyers will only give a hurricane long firing ranges and therefore I always set the convergence to 300m on both mg's or cannons. This will give a good hit pattern on even 700-800m wich is maximum range.
So the convergence range is set to the most likely range where one might expect to start firing, even if it sometimes may happen that one can shoot on shorter ranges (in a furball for example).

In real life the 4 cannon hurricane was mainly used for ground attack but I think it is the best hurricane to shoot down fighters and bombers since one shell may kill or cripple a fighter badly.
I also think it works well on maximum range (800m). I know from my tracks that many dont shoot on those ranges but there are situations where its likely to hit. I often hang on my prop in climbs after BnZ'ing 109's or fw190's and try to get a shot when they are about to turn downwards again and are absolutely slow.
One cannonshell may do the job. U better hit though because he will dive down on you when you have to dive. never dive straight but go in a spiral and turn your profile towards him when u espect him to fire. This way he might miss or hit the fuselage instead of the wings.

Another trick on a BnZ'ing enemy is to fly level when he goes up after a pass and get the energy up so u can climb and meet him head on.
In hurricanes U are usually low on options so headons are good opportunities to fire and a much better option than letting an enemy shoot at your rear quarter. (in my experience i win as as often as the enemy in headons).

In my opinion the hurricane works best in furballs close to clouds where u can shoot at enemies on friendlies tails.
The clouds have enabled me to escape 3-4 bf109's on several occasions and get home wich is very unlikely without clouds (I am surprised everytime I get away).


So to sum up a bit One can say that its very important to know about the bad performance in slow and high speed and its a good idea to to practise on to get the speed down as fast as possible from high speeds.

If u missed the tips on Clouds u can read it here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=3631072922&r=7731043922#7731043922

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Other than that, feel free to add tips on things I migh have forgotten or comments.

HART_dreyer
10-14-2004, 06:25 AM
Good job on the tips F19_Ob! I€m sure a lot of people enjoy your helpful attitude.

Two things to note when flying the Hurricane,

1.) If you are up against an experienced BF-109 that flies his game to near perfection you are unfortunately in a helpless situation and will be forced to fly on the defense until you either get help from your teammates or until he makes a serious mistake (unlikely to happen).

2.) If you are getting B&Z€ed by a BF-109, even if he does not seem to much faster than you as he passes by after trying to shoot you down. NEVER, ever, never, ever ever, never ever, never try to climb up after him. If you do that against me without the sufficient energy, once you€re at stall speed, you€re a dead man.

Also it€s extremely dangerous to fly low on the deck in the Hurricane, as there is virtually not way to climb back up into for instance clouds once you€re in combat. You have no way of escaping an attacker in that situation.

jurinko
10-14-2004, 07:31 AM
i doubt the 7,7mm mgs were in real life effective up to 800m as you wrote. Truth is, I never fired them at 800m in FB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

GazzaMataz
10-14-2004, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In real life the 4 cannon hurricane was mainly used for ground attack but I think it is the best hurricane to shoot down fighters and bombers since one shell may kill or cripple a fighter badly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's my favourite Hurricane. I have played Extreme Ones BoB campaign and found those eight brownings rather weak and not too effective against He-111s - mind you I bagged a few Me 109-110s.

But when I get into a IIc against Me109-110s I have a field day. Not always successful, but boy if they get in my way do I let 'em have it and 4x20mm cannon do BIG DAMAGE!!!

F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jurinko:
i doubt the 7,7mm mgs were in real life effective up to 800m as you wrote. Truth is, I never fired them at 800m in FB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that the effectivnes in real life must dropped of pretty fast on peashooters and perhaps much of it just bounced off on that distance and angle. (cant say for sure)
I only ment how it was in FB and the tracers end on approximately 800m and I assume that also mark the distance where the round no longer do damage.
I also dont fire to kill with mg's on that distance because the mg's really spread to much although on 500-700m some hits may startle or do minor damage and make him bleed E so I or someoneelse may get a better position.
The cannon variants are the best for long range and can absolutely cut a wing close to the max distance for it (800m).

The fieldmodels have the better russian armament are active to around 1000m. I cant remember hitting any enemy on that distance with it though ( around 600-700m yes).

The il2's with 23mm cannons have high rate of fire and reach around 1600m or more and the mg's to 1000m..so with them I have hit up to 1000m.
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There are many reasons to fire aswell.

1 To kill
2 To stress the foe and make him turn and lose E so one can get a better position to fire.
3 Scare a foe off a friendlies tail and let him know that he is targeted aswell and therefore might brake.
4 Alert friendlies of ones position with tracers in an emergency.
5 On some occasions when I'm close behind and enemy and he knows it, I may fire although I dont have the enemy in my sights and the angle is completely wrong, this sometimes makes the enemy twist and try to get out of dodge although there is no dodge to get out of, wich sometimes have allowed me to target and hit a faster fighter where I probably couldnt have been able to aim on him before he was out of range for peashooters.

a few thoughts on that.

Thnx for the inputs so far http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hawgdog
10-14-2004, 10:06 AM
Good one, I got trapped in one and it was a fast learning curse...er, curve.

F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HART_dreyer:

1.) If you are up against an experienced BF-109 that flies his game to near perfection you are unfortunately in a helpless situation and will be forced to fly on the defense until you either get help from your teammates or until he makes a serious mistake (unlikely to happen).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah true...I have met such single 109's that I wasn't able to get one single shooting pass on and couldnt get away from either although I belive I flew the hurri to its limit on those occasions.
I fought such a pilot some weeks ago but I probably stopped the recording in the beginning of the mission instead of turning it on because I couldnt relocate the track again.
That pilot did everything right and stayed on the vertical at speed until I couldnt dodge the attacks anymore..then when I was damaged it was end of story. ( should have bailed instead of continue dodging) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Its because of those kinds of pilots I try to shoot whenever I can. I also try to be very careful in climbing after them unless I have cannons and belive I might hit, but still check my speed and try level out so I have enough energy to meet him in a head on when he comes down.
But that is still not a favorable position to be in....sometimes one just have to choose between two bad options and do the best possible.

good input!

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 10:35 AM
As the Hurricane has a brutally slow roll, heavy amounts of rudder are in order. She also has a heavy compression factor at high speeds that almost make the controls unresponsive.

The best defense for a B and Zer is to lure them into diving lower and lower each time they try to swoop you. Keep speed as close to 400km/h as possible and start a shallow turn as they begin their dive. Most of them get too much speed and can't make a sharp enough turn to get guns on you, if you use quick, shallow dives while turning under the diving bird, followed by a quick, hard rudder wingover and you can get a snapshot off as they pass by your nose. As stated, it doesn't take much of a hit from the Hispanos to cripple most fighters.

The interesting thing about the hispanos on the Hurri is that they completely disappear off of the screen at approx 1km. Any other gun's shells, although effectiveness will drop significantly, travels well up to 3km...especially the laser-guided, 20mm SHVAKs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SlickStick:

The interesting thing about the hispanos on the Hurri is that they completely disappear off of the screen at approx 1km. Any other gun's shells, although effectiveness will drop significantly, travels well up to 3km...especially the laser-guided, 20mm SHVAKs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


20mm hispano cannons on hurricane dissappears after approximately 800m in full speed.

The ShVAK 20mm and UBS heavy mg's on the hurricane fieldmodel (Russian) both end at slightly over 1000m.

The il2's 23mm cannons go to 1600m or slightly more and the mg's end at about 1000m


The russian types had very good trajectory and the closest high velocity the Germans had was the 15mm cannon on bf109 F2 (in FB)
I had to test them today so I was sure of the different variants.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 11:21 AM
I'll have to post my tracks showing distance tags in a head-on and the range of the various guns.

Unless a recent patch has changed it, 20mm SHVAKs went waaaaaay beyond 1km with almost no loss of trajectory.

F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SlickStick:
I'll have to post my tracks showing distance tags in a head-on and the range of the various guns.

Unless a recent patch has changed it, 20mm SHVAKs went waaaaaay beyond 1km with almost no loss of trajectory. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no idea how it was before the patches because I strangely didnt test the distances until recently, but it wouldnt surprise me if something was reworked since the weapons have always been critisised.

I tested them by enabling icons and see how far away my plane was when the tracers dissappeared. I was flying full speed.
Until now I had myself mistakenly mixed up the distances for the hurricane field model and the Mk2C so it was good I checked again.

I try to recheck my tests before posting anything because after a while it gets easy to mix up numbers......and I have been forced to eat my words before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 12:00 PM
Of course, you eating anything is not my intention. More for my personal curiosity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, I was referring to the SHVAKs on Yak 3s and La-7s. I didn't test the Hurri Field Mod yet.

I use the same method, head-on in a QMB with icons on, unlimited ammo and recording the track. I line up the AI and start firing from approx 4km. Later when viewing the track, I use pause to gauge the distance, using the exact same perspective each time.

I try to pause it right at the point that the AI flies into the stream and I check the distance.

F19_Ob
10-14-2004, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SlickStick:

Also, I was referring to the SHVAKs on Yak 3s and La-7s. I didn't test the Hurri Field Mod yet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah...I was only re-testing the Hurricanes and 109's for this post.
Would be pretty interesting to know if the results are the same on those later planes, or if the hispanos are the same on spits.
I havent tested that either.

--------------------------

Anyway......Its funny how ones interest in a plane can be boosted just by reading a book featuring the plane.
I always liked the hurricane but the 109 was my all time favorite.....now I'm back to the hurri again, although I have many favorites now. If I live that long I will read about them all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 12:50 PM
One thing I seem to recall is that the Hurricanes had an older version of the Hispano, as compared to the Spitfires that had them.

The Spitfire's Hispanos appear to shoot much farther. Not sure if the above is why or not.

sunflower1
10-14-2004, 12:51 PM
SlickStick has the technique spot on, I stumbled upon it working out how to protect my flight of Sturmoviks when the campaign generator handed me one of those nightmares scenarios.

You have to be looking to force the BnZ'er to steepen their vertical lines against their will whenever you can and then try to set up for the snapshot on their overshoot. But as Hart-Dreyer points out, if you're directly underneath and out of speed, you're toast. It seems like there is a certain distance away, in relation to their altitude advantage, that is a sweet spot.

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 03:18 PM
Excellent points, sunflower.

My one hard fast rule is never, ever follow a B and Zer back up to stall speed. That would be too easy for them. Always maintain your speed because even if you are below them, you still have an escape route with energy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif