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bpcw001
03-25-2008, 06:28 AM
Hi all,

Being back to IL2 1946 with 4.08m after having paused on the original for quite some while. I'm mostly playing offline due to the lack of good pals.
What keeps bugging the heck out of me is the abysmal AI that didn't seem to have improved over the time.
Still, the AI

- seems not affected in any way by wind/weather, torque, blackout/redout

- seems to have super planes with some tuning not available to the non-AI player. Even when in exactly the same type of plane, AI can outfly and outclimb me with ease. How come my wingmen can catch up with me pretty fast after takeoff although I'm climbing at full power with a perfectly trimmed plane and cowl flaps closed?

- comes down from somewhere to shoot down the enemy in front of me which I took so long to sneak upon. Friendly AI must not steal my kills once I've tagged an enemy!

- tactics are sometimes horrible. No Me109 or FW190 pilot would try to flee from allied aircraft by trying to spiral-climb to high altitude. It would make more sense for them trying to bring the Yanks down to medium/low altitude and engage them there, especially for the FW190.

Please forgive me if this is a reiteration of well-known problems. I just had to get this off my chest.

Any chance that some of the really obvious AI flaws get fixed in 4.09m?

Capt.LoneRanger
03-25-2008, 06:40 AM
lack of good pals is not a good excuse for not flying online. There are many great pals on the servers and on Hyperlobby and if you don't go out, you surely won't meet some. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway: These flaws were in IL2 since the original IL2 and since they were not corrected in 8 years, I guess that answers your question about 4.09. In case it doesn't, let me add, that work on IL2 officially stopped over a year ago.

blackpulpit1970
03-25-2008, 06:45 AM
Flying offline for me is a big dissapointment as well. I thought by now it would be somewhat different with the newer patches but it is not. The super A.I. that can pull off anything without worry of blackouts, super speed and climbing abilities really gets annoying when you want to practice offline for online. I mainly fly online but sometimes you want to do some testing with convergence or joystick settings or something of the sort and it is impossible to practice because your either chasing your enemy for miles on end until you turn around and let him bounce you with his always better altitude or his super turning and non black out abilities will get you. Online is the only way to go unfortunately, love the sim but dissapointed in the A.I. How about the super roll over and over while maintaining incredible speed without any loss, love that one.

Hkuusela
03-25-2008, 06:48 AM
The AI is a PITA, can't argue with that. Especially if it's compared to the BoB Wings of Victory, that has really excellent AI. But we'll just have to live with it and try to enjoy other aspects of this excellent sim.

About the spiral climb: It was one of the standard defensive manouvres for pilots flying 109's.

bpcw001
03-25-2008, 06:48 AM
Thanks for your reply.
I didn't know that official work on IL2 had stopped. Given that fact, there will be nothing to expect from 4.09m with regard to AI. Too bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Concerning the online pals ... you may be right. Being not even able to do proper formation flying, I'm probably just not up for the competitiveness found in online playing which made me look for some lame excuse.

bpcw001
03-25-2008, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Hkuusela:
About the spiral climb: It was one of the standard defensive manouvres for pilots flying 109's.

Why would they do this against US planes like the Mustang, Thunderbolt or Lightning? Those planes are said to do much better at higher altitudes. So why would a Me109 or Fw190 pilot shift the fight into unfavourable altitudes?

Please enlighten me.

Hkuusela
03-25-2008, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by bpcw001:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hkuusela:
About the spiral climb: It was one of the standard defensive manouvres for pilots flying 109's.

Why would they do this against US planes like the Mustang, Thunderbolt or Lightning? Those planes are said to do much better at higher altitudes. So why would a Me109 or Fw190 pilot shift the fight into unfavourable altitudes?

Please enlighten me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, of course they would not do that against an opponent that climbed better (as I understand it, pretty rare in a 109, depending on E of course). The way I understand the manouvre, the idea was not to take the fight higher to take advantage of better qualities of the A/C in altitude (since it might not have any...). The idea was to take advantage of the better climb in order to get away and fight (run?) another day. The spiral was needed not to let the enemy get a shot at you.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-25-2008, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by bpcw001:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hkuusela:
About the spiral climb: It was one of the standard defensive manouvres for pilots flying 109's.

Why would they do this against US planes like the Mustang, Thunderbolt or Lightning? Those planes are said to do much better at higher altitudes. So why would a Me109 or Fw190 pilot shift the fight into unfavourable altitudes?

Please enlighten me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the BF109 and FW190s reach these altitudes before the other planes get there?

The goal is not to change the altitude, but to increase the energy-advantage over the enemy and climb away from him.

rnzoli
03-25-2008, 07:14 AM
Because the BF109 and FW190s reach these altitudes before the other planes get there?
There is no point in climbing spiral when your opponent is already at higher altitude. For example, escorting the incoming bombers, to which the FW190s and BF109s are just trying to climb up to.
Late in the war, the German disengagement tactics were mostly about diving out of the combat zone.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-25-2008, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Because the BF109 and FW190s reach these altitudes before the other planes get there?
There is no point in climbing spiral when your opponent is already at higher altitude. For example, escorting the incoming bombers, to which the FW190s and BF109s are just trying to climb up to.
Late in the war, the German disengagement tactics were mostly about diving out of the combat zone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said climbing away is ALWAYS the best method of gaining an advantage or escaping?

bpcw001
03-25-2008, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
Late in the war, the German disengagement tactics were mostly about diving out of the combat zone.

Absolutely. They tried to get down low after disengagement from allied bombers in hope to escape undetected from escort fighters. The Luftwaffe was heavily outnumbered back then, so they tried to not stick their nose out in the sky too prominently.

Maybe spiral climbing away from an opponent on your six was a real world maneuvre.
However, in IL2, I'd find my butt peppered when trying this in a Me or Fw with a P38, P47 or P51 on my tail.
Again a problem with the AI, or to be found online as well?

DuxCorvan
03-25-2008, 08:36 AM
AI in this game is a POS. Pause.

It's awfully bad, so they allowed it to cheat so blatantly it hurts: that way it has a chance.

Specially horrible the supersonic dives without damage, the always unending climbs, the Robocop AI gunners, the 'chase you till the end of world' AI mofos, and the 'MIllenium Falcon Star Wars hyperdrive' effect when your wingmen spot the enemy: they are on your side, and suddenly "wooooossssh!" and they're ten miles forward and above.

Hkuusela
03-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by bpcw001:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
Late in the war, the German disengagement tactics were mostly about diving out of the combat zone.

Absolutely. They tried to get down low after disengagement from allied bombers in hope to escape undetected from escort fighters. The Luftwaffe was heavily outnumbered back then, so they tried to not stick their nose out in the sky too prominently.

Maybe spiral climbing away from an opponent on your six was a real world maneuvre.
However, in IL2, I'd find my butt peppered when trying this in a Me or Fw with a P38, P47 or P51 on my tail.
Again a problem with the AI, or to be found online as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Obviously it all depends. I suppose using the spiral climb takes a lot of nerves and skill. You must know the right situation to use it and the right opponent. I'd say that in the end of the war, with the German inexperienced pilots, it was much safer to dive anyway if you had the chance.

Here's a Finnish pilot describing his encounter with two Yak-9's:

"It was a case as two Yak-9s came toward me. They approached from the north and made me turn at them. The altitude was about one and a half thousand (meters). They engaged me, being a little above. I was coming from south and my red light was on (indicating low fuel), because our base was nearby. I was heading for Lappeenranta but as they slipped behind my back I had to start climbing.

- In a spiral climb??

Yes, a spiral. We kept climbing. Finally we were at 5000m. All the time I was worrying how far my petrol reserve would take me. We kept going round and round in a spiral. Each time I saw the enemy was about to shoot I pulled some more and each time he missed. But I heard two snaps and I came to Lappeenranta with two holes. But my underlying intention was that in case there is enough fuel, I shall take a shoot. I thought this is such a juicy situation that I shall not let them out of my hands even though I should run out of petrol, because there was an airfield just below.

My plane was so light that I was able to climb better than they could. There were no problems. We flew nose to tail and the rearmost Yak had no chance of shooting. But the one behind me kept jerking, trying to get deflection ...
Then I saw the (Russian) boys were being left behind. First one turned and dived, then the other one and I as the third. Then I kept shooting at them as long as I could. I was sure that the first one I fired at was in my opinion definitely going to fall. I got to shoot at the other one too, but then I throttled back and took direction to Lappeenrant I was not sure, I could not be sure because I had not seen them crash. Yet I reported them. Now that I can find in the Geust list both names, so they both fell down.

And the very next day the same thing. Another two, another two Yak-9s (shot down) according to Geust.

- Hemmo Leino, Finnish fighter ace. 11 victories."

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

There is another one saying he tried it but failed and didn't try it since.

bpcw001
03-25-2008, 09:49 AM
Interesting stuff.
The problem is that in real life, the pursuing pilot will break up at some time, be it due to his own fuel running out or due to getting frustrated.

IL2 AI will stay on your six until you're done.

Sigh ... if only this **** AI were better ...

SeaFireLIV
03-25-2008, 10:09 AM
So what`s going on `ere, then? Ah, my favourite subject...

...But I see I am faced with an overwhelming no win situation, so I`ll just leave you guys to entertain yourselves as you obviously are.

I`ll show myself out.

rnzoli
03-25-2008, 10:11 AM
I have flown a lot with a mixed human/AI environment (co-op missions) so here are a few tips that can help:

Originally posted by bpcw001:
Still, the AI
- seems not affected in any way by wind/weather, torque, blackout/redout True. You can see the dramatic effect in bad weather, when you switch on the autopilot. All the shaking is gone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So do NOT fight the AI in clouds, in turbulence and always throttel back when trying to hang on to their barrel rolls/spiral dives.

- seems to have super planes with some tuning not available to the non-AI player. Even when in exactly the same type of plane, AI can outfly and outclimb me with ease. How come my wingmen can catch up with me pretty fast after takeoff although I'm climbing at full power with a perfectly trimmed plane and cowl flaps closed? Strange, I always have to wait for them, no kidding! (I am flying various fighters.) Maybe armament (drag), or fuel load can explain, but perhaps you are not climbing with optimal climb speeds (too steep climbs will slow you down).


- comes down from somewhere to shoot down the enemy in front of me which I took so long to sneak upon. Friendly AI must not steal my kills once I've tagged an enemy!
If you are a flight commander, you can influence the behaviour of your wingman for sure. If you ask them to "Re-join" your flight, they will happily hum along at your tail, not engaging the enemy. If you ask them to cover you, they will engage the enemy only if the enemy engages you (typicall when enemy fires at you). If you ask them to attack, they will do everything to bring planes down, doesn't matter who and when made them smoking. I know for sure however, that I am able to call back my wingman from the tail of an enemy fighter with the "rejoin" order (so I can steal his kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)


- tactics are sometimes horrible. No Me109 or FW190 pilot would try to flee from allied aircraft by trying to spiral-climb to high altitude. It would make more sense for them trying to bring the Yanks down to medium/low altitude and engage them there, especially for the FW190. I must say that the AI is very much energy concious. If you are lower on energy, they will try to climb away in circles. If you are catching up, they do spiral dives. If you are a better turner, they will make a head-on and then straigten out to separate first. To be honest, quite effective tactics, a smart human pilot does the same or even better.
[/QUOTE]

crucislancer
03-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by bpcw001:
Hi all,

Being back to IL2 1946 with 4.08m after having paused on the original for quite some while. I'm mostly playing offline due to the lack of good pals.
What keeps bugging the heck out of me is the abysmal AI that didn't seem to have improved over the time.
Still, the AI

- seems not affected in any way by wind/weather, torque, blackout/redout


Yeah, this is a bummer when you have to fight them in bad weather. It's bad enough trying to keep the plane steady.



- seems to have super planes with some tuning not available to the non-AI player. Even when in exactly the same type of plane, AI can outfly and outclimb me with ease. How come my wingmen can catch up with me pretty fast after takeoff although I'm climbing at full power with a perfectly trimmed plane and cowl flaps closed?

I rarely see this. As an example, this morning I was playing the NWE Dgen campaign, USAAF P-47D, and despite the fact that I was in a gentle climb at 80% throttle/85% PP, it took the rest of my flight a heck of a long time to catch up. On the other side of the spectrum, I don't seem to have any problems catching up to my flight when I'm tail-end Charlie.



- comes down from somewhere to shoot down the enemy in front of me which I took so long to sneak upon. Friendly AI must not steal my kills once I've tagged an enemy!

Yeah, this is frustrating for me as well, especially when I tell my wingman to cover, and then he bags the kill I was about to finish off. But, in the end it isn't much of a big deal if I'm just trying to get the mission complete.



- tactics are sometimes horrible. No Me109 or FW190 pilot would try to flee from allied aircraft by trying to spiral-climb to high altitude. It would make more sense for them trying to bring the Yanks down to medium/low altitude and engage them there, especially for the FW190.

This doesn't bother me at all. I just let them go. They will come back down most of the time, anyways. Then they are yours.



Please forgive me if this is a reiteration of well-known problems. I just had to get this off my chest.

Any chance that some of the really obvious AI flaws get fixed in 4.09m?

Yeah, the AI has a lot of advantages. But, when you know what they are, you can devise ways to defeat those advantages, even when flying with the difficulty full on. I'm no hot shot pilot by a long shot, I just know what they are going to do, they almost telegraph their moves. The only time I get in trouble with the AI is when they gang up on me. My wingman tends to be a boob, and doesn't do anything even remotely like covering me.

If offline isn't working for you, I'm sure you can find some online action. It's rare that I don't have fun when I fly online, if you just know what you are looking for. Dogfights? Go to Skies of Valor. Mission oriented with plenty of air to air? UK Dedicated or something like Spits vs 109s if you want full-switch. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

BWaltteri
03-25-2008, 10:12 AM
I am always curious to find the ways how I can overcome some particular enemy. It's always pleasing to be able to shrug the AI off of my tails.

Sometimes they crash when you just fly enough low.

ImMoreBetter
03-25-2008, 10:23 AM
The AI are not super-climbers. They're super-accellerators, super-enginecoolers and super-abdominalbodybuilders.

Other than that, they are the exact same as your planes.

The AI isn't that uber. They're just more gutsy.

I can climb with any AI plane without problem, and control the stalls that result as they do.
I can turn with them, assuming we have comparably turning aircraft, And out roll them.

You're right, the AI would stay on your six longer in that situation. But, you can do the same to them.



And on top of all this, it's easier to make super-AI than it is to make AI with human flaws.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-25-2008, 10:26 AM
AI is...well...it's bad.

All the more reason I fly exclusively online. Not that some human pilots are much better with all the hokey stick-stirring, negative G's to beat the band, and flip flops that would give Gumby whiplash. But at least there's not as much predictability in it and there's a bit more satisfaction knowing that there's a thinking human on the other end.

joeap
03-25-2008, 10:31 AM
Boy are we spoiled. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rnzoli
03-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Well, there is at least one definitely good thing in AI.

I never ever had to apologies to an AI pilot after colliding with his aicraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif be that friendly or enemy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And if the fight was tough, I can shoot up his chute without feeling guilty about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Aaron_GT
03-25-2008, 10:37 AM
Sometimes the AI does good things, sometimes not. The ultimate in AI is still to come. Certainly some games in the past have had good AI in some circumstances, but have also had some predictable routines too.

EAW was very good in many ways, but sometimes the AI would fall into a series of repeated maneouvers, and as long as you didn't do anything to disturb its routine, you could cut off its manoeuver and shoot it down.

bpcw001
03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Wow, interesting posts here.
So, apparently most people are able to handle most of the AI's annoyances.

Hmm ... seems I've still got some work ahead ...
Given my current skills, I probably wouldn't last long enough in online fights to be of any use.

buddye1
03-25-2008, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:

And on top of all this, it's easier to make super-AI than it is to make AI with human flaws.

As some of you might know, I am a life time IL2 flyer but I also worked as a c++ programmer on the BOBII AI for 3 years.

The above statement is so true. The time and expense to implement and test human AI features into the game is just staggering. They have to be done over and over with super testing and refined and tuned. It is hard for me to believe a for profit company could ever aford the expense (coders and tester and schedule = $).

I am now working on a new more deterministic and less random approach for the higher skill levels in BOBII for our 2.08 release and we will need to test and refine it for months with our best AI testers and analysis. Like I said the time and cost and time is staggering but of course the AI is very important to BOBII as we do not have MP.

Then of course after all that time and effort some people will not enjoy or like the effect and we will refine it again.

Really good AI requires a effective loop for feedback and refinement, I think.

buzzsaw1939
03-25-2008, 12:20 PM
I guess another way to look at the super AI is, how long would we stay intersted in this sim, if we could out fly and out shoot them after practiceing for a while?

Think of it this way, the AI don't have a refly option!

Although they are unrealistic, I've come to enjoy the challenge. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Aaron_GT
03-25-2008, 12:58 PM
There was (I am not sure how hot this area still is three years ago) interest in using adaptive techniques to 'evolve' responses for AI in video games (similar techniques are used for robotics). Recognising the situation and setting appropriate short-term goals is the difficult bit, though, apparently. Setting a goal of 'win the dogfight' would be too broad, and so there would be far too many simulation runs required to evolve a behaviour to do that from scratch. It's probably a lot easier in the constrained 2.5D world of an FPS

Bearcat99
03-25-2008, 01:45 PM
The AI in this sim definitely has issues... but it is still among the best AI in any sim... IMO the friendly AI could use more work... if the friendly AI did their jobs better a lot of the advantages of the enemy AI would be rendered moot....

I find that by mixing the skill sets of the enemy AI you can get a more random approach... but with friendly AI I usually make them all veteran or ACE in the missions I maker for myself. It is definitely IMO one of the biggest faults.. if not the single biggest fault in the sim.... I hope the AI in SoW will be better.

To be fair though I have lost AI in clouds... online and off line... I have noticed that you have to take a radical departure from your normal path though.. and even then it doesn't always work...

As for online... fly coops....

Xiolablu3
03-25-2008, 02:08 PM
Guys, if you cannot live with the Ai's flaws (face it, with the work the CPU has to already do in this sim, there is not much room for a complex AI) then you should get online as soon as possible.

Think of Multiplayer as like SIngle player but with ten times the immersion factor and challenge if you pick a good server.

There are servers with all difficulty settings, many with historical missions and planesets.

If you are just starting out online then I recommend Ukdedicated2. (UKded1 is fun but has wonderwoman view)

Get online and make your chat bar 6 lines so you dont miss anything, read the brief and learn to fly and fight at 10x the rate of single player

I_KG100_Prien
03-25-2008, 02:10 PM
The largest grip I've had with the AI is the "6th sense" that it has- detecting you on their tail when in reality, wouldn't. Though I did learn that if you keep your gun sight off of them until it's time to shoot you can avoid it.

I did an experiment once:

I pulled up on an AI's 6. Kept my sight off of it, and it just flew along merrily as if nothing was wrong. I moved my sight on, and it began to maneuver and jink around. Took the sight off, and it resumed level flight. Rinsed and repeat. Was quite interesting.

It makes me pull my hair out because darnit.. if I work on sneaking up behind him, I deserve to reap the benefits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

I_KG100_Prien
03-25-2008, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by bpcw001:
Wow, interesting posts here.
So, apparently most people are able to handle most of the AI's annoyances.

Hmm ... seems I've still got some work ahead ...
Given my current skills, I probably wouldn't last long enough in online fights to be of any use.

Don't let that deter you from online play. You have to start somewhere. Quite frankly, you can be an AI slaying ace, but still be "green" when you take on some of the online aces. You will get shot down, and probably quite a bit. But it's how you learn.


I found that flying online actually improved the way I fly offline.. Because it got me away from some of the bad habits that I could get away with against the AI, but not real players.

SeaFireLIV
03-25-2008, 02:36 PM
*Steps momentarily into the room*

Notice, bpcw001 while those who speak of online over offline forget, conveniently, to mention the negatives of online.

Online, when it works, is indeed a joy, nothing is better than working in a team against a competent enemy team and through tactics taking down the other side, knowing they are all human.

However, don`t forget the pilots who shoulder-shoot, care nothing for your efforts to help him and don`t even remotely act to help you. I have seen pilots far worse than AI and that`s saying something when you compare a computer programmed routine to the most complex organism in the universe.

There are times I go back offline away from online and breathe a sigh of relief when I find myself with and against competent AI that at least fights like it`s in a war and doessome teamworking.

And AI really is not bad.

I_KG100_Prien
03-25-2008, 02:43 PM
Seafire does make a valid point. Maximum online enjoyment comes from making friends and flying with them, or of course joining a Squadron. Most take newbies in with open arms and will teach you a lot of things.

Sometimes online play does turn into Air Quake where you can't get help to save your own tail, and if you help someone else you'll get accused of "kill stealing"... be sure there are some point mongering jerks out there.. But that can be said for ANY game that has online capability- not just IL2. Some folks have the mentality that you have to go down in flames, or be in pieces to be "a kill".. Namely the yay-hoo's who will keep pumping you full of lead- regardless of the fact that you are now belching a huge cloud of black smoke, are missing an aileron and have a hole the size of Kansas in your fuselage... You are obviously still a dangerous threat, and they gotta have the "points". (Irregardless of the fact that if you land in that condition, when you hit refly they'll often get credit...)


I got griped at one night in Zekes v Wildcats.. I shot a friendly down when he swooped in between between me and an opponent I had been dancing with... Not my fault he got greedy and flew in front of me just as I pulled the trigger. He deserved what happened. But of course it was *my* fault he got himself shot down....

But all the same.. don't be discouraged. Give it a try there are servers that cater to every skill level and play style.

crucislancer
03-25-2008, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
*Steps momentarily into the room*

Notice, bpcw001 while those who speak of online over offline forget, conveniently, to mention the negatives of online.

Online, when it works, is indeed a joy, nothing is better than working in a team against a competent enemy team and through tactics taking down the other side, knowing they are all human.

However, don`t forget the pilots who shoulder-shoot, care nothing for your efforts to help him and don`t even remotely act to help you. I have seen pilots far worse than AI and that`s saying something when you compare a computer programmed routine to the most complex organism in the universe.

There are times I go back offline away from online and breathe a sigh of relief when I find myself with and against competent AI that at least fights like it`s in a war and doessome teamworking.

And AI really is not bad.

Well said.

DuxCorvan
03-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
the most complex organism in the universe.

Bold assumption:

1) We don't know the whole universe.

2) Even if you say "in the world", a human being isn't conceptually more complex than a roach, or an orangutan.

And AI... sucks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Aaron_GT
03-26-2008, 05:10 AM
How about 'probably the most intelligent beings currently on planet earth with opposable thumbs capable of holding a joystick'

rnzoli
03-26-2008, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
How about 'probably the most intelligent beings currently on planet earth with opposable thumbs capable of holding a joystick'
"Probably the race with the most sex-hungry males currently on earth with opposable thumbs capable of mast***censored****"

Dux?

bpcw001
03-26-2008, 07:02 AM
Thanks for all your posts encouraging me to go online.

I have a pretty solid online FPS background, so I know what it means trying to play anything else than anarchic deathmatch-style on public servers. FPS AI bots have come a long way, and sometimes it is indeed more fun to play with them than with real people.

That's why I was talking about pals in the beginning. If you ain't part of a good team and ain't playing against another team that deserves this term, it's probably not going to be fun.
I actually have a bunch of pals being avid gamers, but unfortunately they never made it into flight sims.
I made the mistake of confronting them with Falcon 4.0 in the first place, which probably scared them away for good.

I might actually try IL2 online though. Can't get any worse than being shot down or being *****ed at by nerds.