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fabianfred
02-04-2008, 06:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXRuby0OXao

this nice clip shows 9 B-25s attacking a Japanese base with bombs/ .50 cal/ and 75mm shells.....starting to fire the 75mm from two miles out...the action takes a few minutes (the 30 seconds they talk about probably refers to time over target)
during which they fire 63 75mm rounds...but in il2 when I pilot the B-25G or H with the 75mm gun...it takes over 20 seconds to reload.....

any data on actual reload times for that gun?

Crash_Moses
02-04-2008, 07:12 PM
No hard data but as I recall the co-pilot seat was removed to make room for the cannon and the navigator pulled double duty as the cannon reloadererer. Twenty seconds sounds reasonable.

Dang...now I'm curious.

berg417448
02-04-2008, 07:24 PM
According to this source the gun could be fired as fast as the gunner could reload it:

http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_95341/tm.htm#

"I flew only 10 of these very exciting missions ranging along the coast of Italy and Southern France. To answer the question about these ścannon totin' Mitchell's we flew read on...this is the way I remember them...

The 75mm (3"Ł) cannon shells were 26 inches long and weighed 20 pounds each and were stored in a rack just above the breech of the big gun and back of the pilot. The rack contained 20 fused shells. This 75 mm had a upward sliding breech block that retracted down at full recoil, ejecting the used shell casing and the Cannoneer would then, as fast as he could, slam the next shell into the open breech causing the breech block to slide up to be instantly fired by the pilot who had his finger on the trigger all the time during the run.

This, of course, meant that when the cannon was fired the aircraft would instantly fill with powder smoke on each shot and since the forward firing 50 caliber machine guns were being fired also the inside of the ship became filled with smoke. It blew out quickly since the big waist windows were open to the elements. The very hot ejected shells just rolled around on the floor until the sometimes violently maneuvering aircraft attack run was over and the shell casings could be put back into the rack. The Cannoneer had to be very careful not to stumble over the ejected cases since the live cannon shells were fused and ready to go. To drop one in the confined gun compartment area would be a fatal disaster for all of us. He had to move quickly away from the gun while loading the shell since the three foot recoil of the big gun was an extremely fast, dangerous and violent movement.

The cannon run was marked by the aircraft's reaction to the big gun recoil that felt like hitting a soft but solid wall in the air...the aircraft did not stop -- it just felt like it...the cannon could be fired as fast as the loader could load it. The entire nose of the aircraft was covered with the flaming red flash of the muzzle blast...it was awesome! The runs were exciting and fast, low level flying. I remember seeing twin prop wash śwakes' behind us as German green tracers flew past my turret mixed with the angry black 88 flak bursts mixed with gray 20mm and 40mm anti aircraft fire."

fabianfred
02-04-2008, 07:49 PM
good reading...thanks Berg

mortoma
02-04-2008, 07:52 PM
You can't fly the B-25G or H in this sim.

PhantomKira
02-04-2008, 08:06 PM
Nice info! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Would you mind telling us how you managed to make the B-25G and H models flyable?

VW-IceFire
02-04-2008, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
You can't fly the B-25G or H in this sim.
AI...online. Did it once...made me wish we had a proper flyable version of the big gun Mitchell.

fabianfred
02-04-2008, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Nice info! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Would you mind telling us how you managed to make the B-25G and H models flyable?

..sorry...not allowed to tell you that here.....I could tell you.....then i'd have to kill you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

PF_Coastie
02-04-2008, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
He had to move quickly away from the gun while loading the shell since the three foot recoil of the big gun was an extremely fast, dangerous and violent movement.



That is an aweful lot of recoil. I had the pleasure of being a gun mount capt of a 3" 50 naval gun. It only had a recoil of about a foot. That thing was such a blast to fire and we were quite good with it. It was 100% manually controlled and was quite a work out for the elevation and trainer. After a 3 shot bracket we could put it in a 20ft circle at 2nm away.

I actually saw the loader get knocked on his arse by the recoil once becuase the seer was set to close and the gun fired instantly when the breech closed. He was fine but he said he would never load it again...LOL!

PhantomKira
02-05-2008, 01:37 PM
AI...online. Did it once...made me wish we had a proper flyable version of the big gun Mitchell.


Ah. Too bad. Oh well... Hats off to you for letting me know, though. Thanks.

stansdds
02-05-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
You can't fly the B-25G or H in this sim.
Ummmm... yeah... right... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Crash_Moses
02-05-2008, 03:00 PM
Totally forgot I had this site bookmarked. Great site for PBJ fans.

Claims a firing rate of six shots per run...
http://www.vmb-613.com/news/cannon_planes_440727.html

Very nice JPEG of the cannon innards...
http://www.vmb-613.com/photographs/t13e1_cannon.html

And much more. Just do a search for 75mm cannon on the website. Awesome site...

S!

flakwagen
02-05-2008, 04:11 PM
I showed this video to my grandfather, a USMC Corsair pilot, and received the following reply:

***

Interesting. When moving from Funa Futi to Eniwetok we staged through Apemama. Then later we flew from Eniwetok (Engebi) to Kwajalein (Roi Namur) then flew bombing missions out of there against Wotje, Maloelap, Mille, etc. I flew bombing missions against Mille, the Japanese base these B-25 were attacking. The B-25 activity reflected in this presentation was about the same as the Ponape missions we flew except that in our first Ponape attack there was Japanese air activity. Still plenty of anti-air fire but no more enemy aircraft on later missions. GdD

***

It's really cool to see the same aircraft that my grandfather likely escorted. I didn't understand until now how low the bombers flew during those missions.

Flak

Tater-SW-
02-05-2008, 04:41 PM
^^^ that's why I was so unhappy when in one of the last few patches they upped the min alt that B-25s will fly to 140m.

fabianfred
02-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Hey Flakwagen......did you show him the first three from the series...about them preparing the guns etc......nice tale from you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lurch1962
02-07-2008, 06:54 PM
In the video you can see extended shots of a pair of planes firing their 75's. Even with the most careful scrutiny, immediately after firing a shot neither plane is slowed to any measurable degree whatsoever by the recoil. But the folks inside would have felt as though they had slowed by probably several mph, if not more more. Just goes to show what wonderfully sensitive but misleading accelerometers our sensory systems are!

Choctaw111
02-08-2008, 09:49 AM
Starting from approximately 1:28 in the YouTube vid, the first shot is fired from 75mm and then again at approximately 1:37 the second shot is fired from the same cannon. The film is continuous and suggests that the loaders could perform that task in little more than 8 seconds, but other factors come into play. The loader reloads the cannon and then has to tell the pilot that the cannon is ready to fire again and then the pilot aims (or is already aimed) and fires. All this happens in less than nine (9) seconds.

DuxCorvan
02-09-2008, 04:06 AM
Fabian, using unauthorized stuff spoils you karma and makes baby Siddhartha cry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif