PDA

View Full Version : A very good game, but...



Rea1SamF1sher
03-21-2011, 10:41 AM
Well I really don't know if someone created such a thread already. I am actually a PC gamer but since it's almost the same game and in the Console section there are more members active and therefore more will be able to read it, I choosed the NG section.

It's very nice how AC developed and now there are lots of options that make a lot of fun to use but there are these three points I still think AC doesn't manage to achieve but should:

- The Assassin
Now question yourself, what do you think an Assassin does and in which way he does it? I like the clothing in AC for the Assassin but overall I would like to have more depth to the experience of an Assassin. For example more "tactical thinking" in AC. Considering that, I am coming to the second point.

- Challenge
In ACB the devs tried to have more variety and also implemented the difficulty levels of a mission. The thing is it still feels simple, the combat is more indepth and again you have more variety. But I often see a battle ending in a few seconds because of the lack of AI intelligence to defend themself. Often people don't die once while fighting but more by falling from a big tower or they just fail at a mission because they were detected (because of lack of stealth features). Often it comes down to repeat and repeat and repeat hitting the conter button. Now having challenge in the game would make it more fun and give more Longevity which is the third point.

- Longevity
Playing the same missions over and over wouldn't get boring as fast as if there is some Challenge to it. Battles wouldn't get boring as fast as if there would be some challenge to it or it requires actually skill to kill a group of soldiers.

Now if the next AC features real difficulty levels it would give a lot more Longevity to AC and it wouldn't be such a pain anymore to wait for the next AC title. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Saracenar
03-23-2011, 03:39 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing just today, on my way to university.

I love Assassin's Creed. I think its an awesome series with amazing potential (some of which, as already been utilised). But there are definitely areas that can be improved.

Addressing the topic of challenge, I know that the developers allowed the enemies to attack you at the same time rather than one at a time like in the previous games, and this has helped to increase the difficulty. I was all for it.

But they introduced kill-streaks as well. Now don't get me wrong, I think they are awesome, and I love pulling off a perfectly fluent stream of them. But its just another of the mechanics they've introduced that has made the game so much easier. Kick does this as well, to some degree.

The solution: make kill-streaks harder to pull off. I'm not sure how, maybe make the buttons you need to press different from square, square, square (for the PS3) or X, X, X (for the Xbox). Give enemies the ability to kick. Let even more attack at the same time. Give weaker enemies a chance to receive a non-lethal counter-attack (in the way that the Borgia Captains could dodge your blows, but just, with a lower rate of success (maybe something like 15% to 20%, higher for Agiles, lower for Brutes, etc.

This way, you are forced to rely on your speed and reaction time even more, which makes it harder for you to survive if you just run in hoping to annihilate everyone with just one button (which is pretty much the case at the moment).

For me, its really just combat that makes the game so easy. If it was harder (or, there was an option to make it harder), I would get more enjoyment from the game, being able to face intelligent enemies.

Further on the subject of intelligent enemies, I would also suggest that the notoriety system be changed. Here's how I think it should work: after completing missions, depending on how public they are, what the repercussions are, your notoriety meter is adjusted fittingly. There should also be a secondary notoriety meter that cannot be lowered. Because really, if there's word circulating about a man who is hunting down the servants of the Pope and eventually the Pope himself/the Pope's son, it isn't going to die down when they stop seeing wanted posters.

And wouldn't you think the guards would be receiving word to keep an eye out for him? If they can get up wanted posters of him, then surely the guards would know what he looks like (Ezio honestly couldn't take all of them down/silence every herald/kill every corrupt official), and, really, Ezio is a one of a kind dresser. No one else looks like him.

If he's slaughtering ranks of guards, they'd also be wary of encountering him. While you're notorious, or have a certain level on the permanent notoriety scale, progressively more and more types of guards will be searching for you. More Seekers. More Brutes, more Agiles, etc. They'll all be checking hiding spots, and if they see you, they'll get suspicious.

Well that was a lot...I could probably go on much further though.

Ass4ssin8me
03-23-2011, 04:02 AM
The sad thing is, most of these problems were not present in AC 1.
Even in the combat it was harder and guards actually attacked.. Not just stand there waiting to get hit. And I HATE the kick feature.
Quick stepping was a lot better. Even after beating AC:B once and a half times ( I don't like Brotherhood, and I just can't finish it a second time ) I still attempt to quick step before being disapointed at his kick.

bitebug2003
03-23-2011, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Ass4ssin8me:
The sad thing is, most of these problems were not present in AC 1.
Even in the combat it was harder and guards actually attacked.. Not just stand there waiting to get hit. And I HATE the kick feature.
Quick stepping was a lot better. Even after beating AC:B once and a half times ( I don't like Brotherhood, and I just can't finish it a second time ) I still attempt to quick step before being disapointed at his kick.

To pick up your point about AC1, I hated that game with a passion. The fights got on my nerves. The punch in the stomach landing you flat on your face - the constant throwing you about (yes, I know you can counter that). Having dispatched around 15 guards and getting the 'reinitializing message'...to then be spotted by another guard (or someone cried Assassin!!!!). Just totally bogged down the game for me. IMO

Having to flee constantly where multiple guards managed to get on the rooftops before you - every corner you turned there were more guards.

The mission resets were a pain (especially with the informer (having to hear the same dialog again)
The lengthy speech after saving a citizen results you in being locked on to them until they are finished, meanwhile guards are coming for you.

IMO.

But I digress.

AC2 and AC:B - at least you had more weapons at your disposal to dispatch the enemies quicker - avoiding them is even better as you can see them on the mini-map, unlike in AC1 where you were likely to get an arrow in your back because you climbed up on to a roof with your back towards a guard that you didn't know was there.

As for the combat in general, they still wait for you to attack but considering this isn't Prince of Persia where combos were a given, it would be a little unfair for 5 blades to come at you once with little to no defence.

Unless the Assassin has fast reflexes than the guards, the combat can't really change.

IMO.

[SPOILERS]
Crepi Il Lupo springs to mind - it was very easy to pull off a 13 hit kill streak.
[END SPOILERS]

I guess it's down to preference - but I quite enjoyed the combat in ACII/AC:B
But I would have preferred more stealth based moves.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

kriegerdesgottes
03-23-2011, 10:33 AM
I absolutely loved the first one and I played it every single day for about two years but I do agree with some of your complaints about the game. I don't get though how people can hate the first one soo much when it's not that different from two. Two gets just as repetitive as the first one once the game is beat and in every AC game, at the end, all there is to do is walk around and kill guards, which is awesome and fun, but ACB is no different. I like them all though, I just fear for the series in the future having only 10 months now to make instead of a developing time that...you know makes sense.

Rea1SamF1sher
03-23-2011, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Saracenar:
And wouldn't you think the guards would be receiving word to keep an eye out for him? If they can get up wanted posters of him, then surely the guards would know what he looks like (Ezio honestly couldn't take all of them down/silence every herald/kill every corrupt official), and, really, Ezio is a one of a kind dresser. No one else looks like him.
That's also the point why I mentioned and asked the question what an Assassin actually is and what and how he does it. The thing is, I am always finding myself searching for fights against more and more soldiers because there is no consequences, it isn't challenging which makes the game very boring in time. You can carry a lot of weapons. This should be limited in my opinion so you have always to decide which weapon you need for the next mission. He carrying so much weapons but hasn't got really a disadvantage because of that. He still moves as fast as if he wouldn't have any weapons at all.

There needs to be disadvantages and advantages for every weapon. So for example the hidden blade has the advantage that it's quiet assassination which noone notice til the man is falling down. This is actually what defines an assassins or how the most people imagine what an assassin is. GTA is challenging me and that's why I always keep coming back that's not the case with AC. It has a great story and great features but it doesn't use it's full potential.

Colossus_1191
03-23-2011, 12:11 PM
This is the weak point of the games. They do almost everything well, but the combat is way too easy. In Brotherhood, we have an army at our disposal, but no inticement to strategically use them because we can take out 10 guys without breaking a sweat. In that way, there is also no real reason to try and sneak around. Hell, there is no reason to upgrade your weapons or armor either. The games lack severe balance in this area.

If the games made combat very difficult requiring us to focus on stealth, strategy and exploring (like finding secret entrances), then these games would be perfection.

Saracenar
03-27-2011, 03:31 AM
Being a one man army kind of makes the whole 'way of the assassin', if you will, because Ezio can decimate entire armies. So, why doesn't he just walk into the Vatican the start of the game and kill everyone?

That's the kind of thing that really makes me want to see a change in the combat.

I guess it can be partly excused because Ezio is, at this point, the best assassin in the world (right?).

I really think that, in addition to the changes I suggested above, the health meter should not be so greatly buffed, as you progress. It should take a few hits to kill you, and that's it.

If guards can break your defences, more actively attack, and dodge, it will be better. Lose killstreaks or make them harder to pull off. But now I'm just repeating myself.

What did you think of my changes to the notoriety system? I think it would force more stealthy approaches.

UBOSOFT-Gamer
03-27-2011, 05:16 AM
well, i think they devs improved the AI. And imo it is ok the way it us.

Maybe the devs could give option of different difficulties like in ego shooters??

El_Sjietah
03-27-2011, 05:58 AM
They took a step forward in ACB with limitted counter possibilities, more agressive AI and more distinction between enemy types.

Then they took 3 steps back with implementing the kick feature. Instant, 100% guaranteed defense break is a big no-no in any combat system. Even Papal Guards, the supposed big bad meanies, go down as easy as militia. Just start off with a kick and roflcombo your way through the rest of the army.

AC1's combat is still the best imo. You could still take out mobs of enemies with roughly the same speed as in ACB, but at least it took some actual skill on the player's part.
And fleeing the scene was an actual requirement instead of completely massacre the entire city garrison.

crash3
03-27-2011, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Ass4ssin8me:
The sad thing is, most of these problems were not present in AC 1.
Even in the combat it was harder and guards actually attacked.. Not just stand there waiting to get hit. And I HATE the kick feature.
Quick stepping was a lot better. Even after beating AC:B once and a half times ( I don't like Brotherhood, and I just can't finish it a second time ) I still attempt to quick step before being disapointed at his kick.

the kick move just took all difficulty out of the game also when fighting cesare it just came down to button smashing against an easy opponent with simply lots of health-very disappointing considering all the trailers about this showdown there should be more fencing moves before finding an opening then striking. people generally die when they get hit once by a sword they dont do that weird flinch thing that guards do when you attack them

we need to see limbs flying and proper stab wounds being shown in AC3 we should have COMBAT STREAKS NOT KILL STREAKS where you keep fighting until aguard shows a weakness and you quickly slash them or stab them before they get their guard back up or they move out of the way

also if a guard surrenders you should show mercy and not kill or else notoriety would increase greatly as you killed him in cold blood whereas a guard who runs you kill him as he is an eye witness and will tell other guards of what you did

also get rid of archetypes of guard because it make the combat too predictable therefore easy as we know how to combat each different guard

the most basic guards should be able to dodge, counter, kick/punch, grab, parry, stab etc

also when fighting i get knocked over quite a lot and ezio is lying there for quite a while and the guards simply wait for him to get back up in the next game there should be a control to make the assassin role along the floor in cae he is knocked over to avoid the guards stabbing down on him

Inorganic9_2
03-27-2011, 09:14 AM
I thought the fluidity of the kill streaks was awesome and should be implemented ONCE IN COMBAT. However, I do not think they should be made as a reason to get into combat.

As someone said above, AC was awesome when "fleeing the scene was a requirement". Yes, Ezio might be a brilliant swordsman, but no one is so brilliant that they can take out 20+ trained soldiers. I want to have to think "Oh no, there're too many guards. Best escape before I'm killed" or "I need my Assassins before I'm completely mobbed"

Also, I thought Brotherhood was far too eager to show off the fighting skills and, ergo, became a sort of "fight these guys, then these guys, then these guys too". I swear, by the end of the game, Ezio had killed over 900 people...that's just a bit too insane.