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View Full Version : Good news about Ju88 bug fixes



Danschnell
02-16-2006, 02:44 AM
I have been e-mailing Oleg a lot recently about Ju88 AI bugs. It seems he believes me about the Ju88 and will probably fix it!

He sees the crashes after takeoff because Ju88s wobble instead of gaining altitude, and he sees the crashes after dive bombing and the bombs missing by miles.

He still doesn't believe that under most circumstances there is no collision avoidance. I'm still working on getting him to believe that one... watch this space http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RAF_Loke
02-16-2006, 02:58 AM
Keep working http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
02-16-2006, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by Danschnell:
I have been e-mailing Oleg a lot recently about Ju88 AI bugs. It seems he believes me about the Ju88 and will probably fix it!

He sees the crashes after takeoff because Ju88s wobble instead of gaining altitude, and he sees the crashes after dive bombing and the bombs missing by miles.

He still doesn't believe that under most circumstances there is no collision avoidance. I'm still working on getting him to believe that one... watch this space http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nice work. But I have seen collision avoidance (I made a long post with pics), so trying to convince Oleg that something isn`t there which is, seems strange. Still, if Oleg actually makes further improvements to the AI, without doing something stupid (like getting them to fly thru eachother) then i`m all for that.

Sturm_Williger
02-16-2006, 03:20 AM
It's the PK from dead 6 that worries me the most. Especially when it's an A6M5's Mg's only http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

JG52Uther
02-16-2006, 03:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif yes PK is annoying.Far to easy with all that armor.

KG26_Oranje
02-16-2006, 05:37 AM
S!
Dive bombing in JU88 is 100% ok.
We dont mis and no crashes.
Climing is correct to after start.
dont chances that!!!! oleg.
Its the level stabalizer that need some correction and the damige code.
25% and no bombs , it still loose alt under speed of 330 km/h
Its a flying zippo lighter lol.

Here u go.
Pic say more than words.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/KG26Oranje/Luftwaffe-Axis/ju88dive.jpg



Aim wiht circle on target on dive till ,
The buzzer is calling,
Than aim wiht curser on target and relise on that moment all ure bombs.

Danschnell
02-16-2006, 09:28 AM
Dive bombing in Ju88 is not ok. You say 'we.' I am talking about AI. They can't divebomb without crashing. Try it yourself. Go into fmb, set one up to divebomb from 2000m. Crashes every time.

Also, Seafire, as I have said before to your post about the collision avoidance, yes I know it is modelled, but only under very limited circumstances. It is so limited it isn't useful. In most situations collision avoidance is not modelled at all. c'mon I know people like to defend Oleg but you must've seen this.

Oh, and I forgot, PKs are too easy to get.

Stackhouse25th
02-16-2006, 09:37 AM
flap retraction

xTHRUDx
02-16-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
flap retraction

yes, they act the same way the Wildcat's flaps act

p1ngu666
02-16-2006, 07:47 PM
thanks for that oranje http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Destroyer110
02-16-2006, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Danschnell:
Dive bombing in Ju88 is not ok. You say 'we.' I am talking about AI. They can't divebomb without crashing. Try it yourself. Go into fmb, set one up to divebomb from 2000m. Crashes every time.

Also, Seafire, as I have said before to your post about the collision avoidance, yes I know it is modelled, but only under very limited circumstances. It is so limited it isn't useful. In most situations collision avoidance is not modelled at all. c'mon I know people like to defend Oleg but you must've seen this.

Oh, and I forgot, PKs are too easy to get.


From my experiemts, I have found out the following for AI bombing (all planes flying at max speed 445)


(1) Ju88 carring 2 * 2,000 (4,000) have a great deal of trouble taking off, especially on short run ways.. they generally have to bounce afew times past the runway before gaining enough speed to climb. (in other words, make sure there are no hills in the flight path!)

(2) Ju88's carrying 4,000 of bombs cannot dive bomb below 3,000m, they don't have enough time to roll and dive through before needing to drop their bombs, thus bombs are dropped anywhere.

(3) The second AI plane following the leader AI plane (both carrying 4,000) gets confused and cannot gain height to follow the leader. when it catches up to the leader (below but inline), it drops speed and banks left and right but cannot climb to rejoin.

Apart from the above, JU88's dive bomb ok.

Stop hassling Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif LOL!

csThor
02-17-2006, 12:00 AM
The loadouts with 2x SC1800 or 2x SC2000 are both not historical and are a serious overload for the Ju 88. The only reason they're still available is because of technical issues with the program.

Tooz_69GIAP
02-17-2006, 03:08 AM
Those loadouts should not be used for dive bombing, and as Thor says, are a major overload for the Ju-88.

If you do use the large ordinance, you should only level bomb with them unless you start from like 5,000m or something.

With the standard loadouts, it's still advisable to start your dive from over 3,000m as it will take time to pull out. You have to remember this isn't a Stuka, but a rather large-ish twin engined aircraft.

KG26_Oranje
02-17-2006, 05:57 AM
Danschnell U need to go back to school i ges.
KG26 is a bomber SQD and we try and test out from day one the JU88.
We dive bomb wiht all load outs from 1000 m to 4000m alt and we manige to hit targets and get out the dive.
Including 100% fuel , 2 x SC2000 from start point 4000 alt.
On 40 , 50 , 60 and 90 % dive angel.
Over speeding to 800 KM/H and drop under 500 meters alt.
(Plane breaks up on 880 km/h)
Hit target and get out off the dive.
U dont belive it ?
Well come online and join us in a test run.
Buht if The bomb delay is not set up correctly , yes than u dont make it out off dive
The explosian will get ure plane lol.

S!

Sturm_Williger
02-17-2006, 06:32 AM
Oranje - Danschell is talking about the AI not being able to dive-bomb with the Ju88 - human pilot is not a problem.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Danschnell
02-17-2006, 07:02 AM
Thank you Williger. At least someone understands what I was saying. Jeez whats wrong with this forum. I made it clear I was talking about AI in the very 1st post... but still people 'accuse' me of not being able to dive bomb.

Oranje I know how to dive bomb thank you. No I don't miss, yes I do pull out in time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, every time anyone says anything at all about Ju88 bugs, everyone suddenly starts shouting 'but it would be that way with 2x2000kg!!!' Nobody is ever reporting bugs with 2000kg bombs. Everybody already knows its unrealistic and nobody tests with those bombs. I certainly never bothered looking at AI behaviour with 2000kg bombs.

The good news... Oleg has fixed the genuine AI bug with Ju88 divebombing. He also fixed the problem with Bf110s colliding during ground attack. I'm sure these fixes will make it into an official future patch.

Oleg is very dedicated to his community, and I'm going to enjoy finally flying a 4.04b01m Bf110 career where they don't collide as much.

My recent communications with Oleg have proved to me just how reasonable man he is, and if you send solid proof of a problem he will fix it. However, the proof has to be solid. He won't investigate himself. He has to see the problem in front of him.

p1ngu666
02-17-2006, 09:12 AM
why on earth it has those loadouts is beyond me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

could they take 1 2000kg bomb ?

oranje i tried out the method u posted above and i miss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

quiet_man
02-17-2006, 10:29 AM
@KG26_Oranje
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
AI = Computer controlled plane

quiet_man

KG26_Oranje
02-17-2006, 11:46 AM
Sorry Danschnell.
miss that part.
P1ngu666 i dont say u hit it for 100% lol
I still miss sometime`s hehehehehe.
Its just practise and more practise.
Play a biht wiht the speed setup or alt.
thats helps a bit to bro.
Buht keep the IAS/TAS chard as the standard.
Settings :
500 alt stuvi bomb alt
Dive speed 460KM/h on speedbar = +/- 470/480 on tas setting.
or adjust ure aim a bit to the top of target.
S!

p1ngu666
02-17-2006, 12:37 PM
i think i practised too much http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Danschnell
02-18-2006, 05:45 AM
Its OK Orange I won't hold it against you.

PBNA-Boosher
02-18-2006, 06:40 AM
The Ju-88A-4's I've sent into combat through the Ace AI have been able to hit their targets pretty well, generally 1/2 of the bombs land on target, I'd say that's good for a plane carrying four bombs.

However, the only AI I've tested with has been bombing ships, so maybe naval targets are different? My only problem when flying the Ju-88 is getting the dive sight to work, I have problems operating it in the Stuka as well. Any advice?

FOKite
02-18-2006, 09:54 AM
As we are talking JU88 bugs has any body else noticed the u/c doors? Both sets are closed on the ground with the u/c leg poking through closed doors. Were working correctly b4 we had flyable version. (SB has one set u/c doors that folds inwards and one correctly outwards http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif)Hardly a show stopper I agree but if the JU88 is going to be worked on, maybe could be fixed?

A.K.Davis
02-18-2006, 07:04 PM
Does anyone know if the landing gear door animation problems have been formally reported or if it is a known issue?

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2315/ju88gear7da.jpg

|CoB|_Spectre
02-18-2006, 11:06 PM
I noticed some strange artifacts associated with the forward cockpit gun while playing online this evening. Here are three screenshots that show three artifacts that appear in the lower cockpit glazing and move in relation to the forward cockpit machinegun movement:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact3.jpg

FOKite
02-19-2006, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
I noticed some strange artifacts associated with the forward cockpit gun while playing online this evening. Here are three screenshots that show three artifacts that appear in the lower cockpit glazing and move in relation to the forward cockpit machinegun movement:
I guess you have found the reason for the request in the readme to accept this cockpit "As is" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/I_B_Spectre/Ju-88gunartifact3.jpg

MercilessFatBoy
02-19-2006, 07:58 AM
guys oleg clearly said accep the copit as it is... dont u ever read the read me file? this plane as u see had some mistakes on the modeling....... it wasnt gona be put into the game because of this but oleg felt sorry for us and spend time to get it into the game..... dont spect 3d model bug fixes. only report FM AI OR DM fixes..

|CoB|_Spectre
02-19-2006, 09:44 AM
Yes, MercilessFatBoy, we do read the READMEs. To "accept cockpit as it is" is rather vague, though it was my impression Oleg was talking about the compromises that had to be made regarding aspects of non-standard equipment, layout, and the inability to model the left aft-facing machinegun for human operation. Nothing was said about artifacts, which at this point I'm not sure are videocard related, driver related or what. This is the reason for the post, to see if anyone else has experienced the anomoly. To lump all observations under the "accept as it is" may be doing a disservice to a developer that obviously tries to fix issues that did not show up during beta testing. Let's let him decide, shall we!

JG52Uther
02-19-2006, 09:57 AM
Spectre i noticed that problem as well.It would be nice to have everything fixed,but i doubt there is time.I thought Oleg's quote 'Accept cockpit as is' refered to the radio op/rear gunner position as well.I am just happy to have the JU88 in the sim,and would rather have it with the current problems,than not at all.

Jippo01
02-19-2006, 10:56 AM
artifacts are fixed.


-jippo

|CoB|_Spectre
02-19-2006, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Jippo01:
artifacts are fixed.


-jippo

Thanks Jippo, it's always nice to hear from someone in-the-know. Thanks also for the fantastic Ju-88, you're a master.

Destroyer110
02-19-2006, 05:04 PM
yes, there are still graphic problems but overall I'm glad to have the Ju88.

The glitches I found are;

(1) looking up from belly gunner position, you see right through the pilots/co-pilots(?) legs / bottom half of the body.
(2) When in the Belly gunner position (Gee, i spend a lot of time there?) and look left and right, you can see right through the 2,000 KG bombs. I understand the 2,000 kg Bombs are unrealistic and should be removed but cannot (for some reason?)


These are only minor features and don't really need addressing.


One problem I would like as a bomber gunner, is the ability to Yaw the aircraft when being chased by a fighter. I'm getting sick and tied of shooting the tail off! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW, the AI Ju88 needs 3,000M to dive bomb probably carrying any bomb load. It's a 2 engine medium bomber not a single engine fighter/bomber. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif