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View Full Version : Will the Tempest be vapourware to the Dora9?



MEGILE
07-07-2005, 06:37 PM
The answer my friends is blowing in the wind... and when you see that the Dora9 in-game is a Nos boosted, uber tweeked flying pimp mobile.. the answer is pretty obvious.

If the Tempest is going to be a slower, heavier version of the Mustang MKIII, then my "gotta win" mentality says, stick with the Dora.
The Dora is a fantastic machine in game... and no 4 Hispano tooting RAF Uber ride is going to knock it off the top spot.

Any thoughts?
you nice?
Me wrong?

VW-IceFire
07-07-2005, 06:40 PM
Doesn't really matter to me. I really like the FW190 and the D-9s are great...but the Tempest is my favorite warplane come hell or high water.

MEGILE
07-07-2005, 06:42 PM
hmmm... Icefire, please be more controversial.

Try again.. more like..

Wtf, megile you are teh sux0r. My Tempest is going to r0x0r your little luftwaffle klownwagon down town baby.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

p1ngu666
07-07-2005, 07:17 PM
pff
190 is no klownwagon compaired to teh oneohwhine.

tempest is hard as nails tbh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

J_Weaver
07-07-2005, 08:57 PM
Well, I haven't been able to shoot a Tempest down with anything other than the ME-262. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-07-2005, 09:41 PM
Try with a P-47, P-40C, or Bf-109G-10. I found it easier in those planes to kill a Tempy.

faustnik
07-07-2005, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Megile:

Me wrong?

You wrong, Tempest good.

Atomic_Marten
07-08-2005, 01:56 AM
I predict, between these two types winner will be usually the one who starts fight with more energy.

RedDeth
07-08-2005, 02:13 AM
reality has nothing to do with how oleg will model the tempest.

Hristo_
07-08-2005, 02:20 AM
The last laugh is on Oleg and me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

anarchy52
07-08-2005, 03:24 AM
I'm pretty sure Tempests are goin to be eaten alive unless flown by FW-190 pilots.

ploughman
07-08-2005, 03:35 AM
I'm pretty sure Tempests are goin to be eaten alive unless flown by FW-190 pilots.

But then they'd be Tempest pilots wouldn't they, or are you trying to melt my brain?

WTE_Ibis
07-08-2005, 03:59 AM
If you haven't read "The Big Show" then do so.

MEGILE
07-08-2005, 06:10 AM
I like what RedDeth said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F19_Ob
07-08-2005, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Megile:

If the Tempest is going to be a slower, heavier version of the Mustang MKIII, then my "gotta win" mentality says, stick with the Dora.
The Dora is a fantastic machine in game... and no 4 Hispano tooting RAF Uber ride is going to knock it off the top spot.

Any thoughts?
you nice?
Me wrong?


I think the four 20mm cannons on the Tempest will make it a tough opponent. I used to take on the Doras and Ta's in il-2's , so for me atleast the Tempest clearly will be a vast upgrade in performance.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
As long as it is ugly and doesn't have too good performance it's worth a try.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MEGILE
07-08-2005, 06:35 AM
Ugly? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Monsieur Closterman would exclaim Sacré Bleu!

WTE_Ibis
07-08-2005, 06:44 AM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ibissix//FISHO2.jpg

WTE_Ibis
07-08-2005, 06:45 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

WOLFMondo
07-08-2005, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
I'm pretty sure Tempests are goin to be eaten alive unless flown by FW-190 pilots.

Nah, you'll find allot of Jug pilots who suddenly realise they have a plane that behaves like a jug, is even faster and more heavily armed than a Jug, dives like a Jug and can do it all right on the deck AND outperform any 190.


Originally posted by Megile:

If the Tempest is going to be a slower, heavier version of the Mustang MKIII, then my "gotta win" mentality says, stick with the Dora.

Tempest is lighter fully loaded and is faster at many heights as well as being slightly slower at others.

At least go Fishing with facts Uber trawler:P

MEGILE
07-08-2005, 07:11 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F19_Ob
07-08-2005, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Ugly? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Monsieur Closterman would exclaim Sacré Bleu!

No offense ment m8.

Ugly is good. I have a natural weaknes for ugly and crappy things and if it rattles too I'm in heaven.
Uglyness usually also is a good insurance for mediocre performance, wich also is good.
Example;

il-2 doubleseaters..can a plane get uglier? and it has some crappy performance to show against the opposition. Thats why it was love at first sight.

P47...just the sight makes u laugh and then if someone tells u it's a fighter it's impossible to hold it anymore. Got to love it.

Bf110...If one mention the name to those who flew it they'll look like they just stepped on a dog-mine and suffers from the smell.
This one I'm just forced to love since it defyes nature in every way possible.

Fiat cr42 The most important view for dogfighting is obscured to the maximum, wich earns it a place in anyones heart.

P-38 performs too well now to place itself high on the rankinglist but it's extreem uglyness makes up for the loss big time.

Tb3...pure uglyness with wings attached. If the crew didn't end thir days in battle they would laugh themselves to death.


Val wich I affectionally have renamed "Valhalla"
because flying it can only lead there.
The telescopic sight and the peashooters makes it a lovebird for me.

There are many more but they all have the uglyness in common and.....well, there it is.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

skabbe
07-08-2005, 07:48 AM
with a view forward, contrary to the FW190, i will eat you all germans with my higher speed and arming, better zoom and boom. I will personaly make my self one with the Tempest just as you are with you FW190...

JG52Karaya-X
07-08-2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
the Dora9 in-game is a Nos boosted, uber tweeked flying pimp mobile..

You nice? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Since when does it have GM1?

Jah bless--

anarchy52
07-08-2005, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by skabbe:
I will personaly make my self one with the Tempest ...
well diving into the ground on fire and wingless ought to make you pretty much one with the plane. Inseparable even.

I offer my asistance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
07-08-2005, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
the Dora9 in-game is a Nos boosted, uber tweeked flying pimp mobile..

You nice? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Since when does it have GM1?

Jah bless-- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since I made it up.. now pay attention!

skabbe
07-08-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skabbe:
I will personaly make my self one with the Tempest ...
well diving into the ground on fire and wingless ought to make you pretty much one with the plane. Inseparable even.

I offer my asistance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe. well same to you.

Atzebrueck
07-10-2005, 07:53 AM
I hope we'll see scenes like that, when the Tempest gets its cockpit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif:
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4356/gunsight4sq.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gunsight4sq.jpg)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7764/normal8mz.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normal8mz.jpg)

Unfortunatelly those aren't ingame-screenshots, but rendered ones http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

JG7_Rall
07-10-2005, 08:20 AM
That P51's gonna get owned!

MS_Siwarrior
07-10-2005, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Doesn't really matter to me. I really like the FW190 and the D-9s are great...but the Tempest is my favorite warplane come hell or high water.

PFFTT
Doras, Fw190, Tempest pft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
P-40s Rock everything http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

MS_Siwarrior
07-10-2005, 08:41 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Megile:
Nos boosted, uber tweeked flying pimp mobile.. QUOTE]

yes..........................
Too much fast and the furious. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Airmail109
07-10-2005, 11:26 AM
I cant decide whether megiles the college playboy or the college idiot....you decide! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Tachyon1000
07-10-2005, 12:18 PM
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

skabbe
07-10-2005, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

you ad TempestMKV in your airplanelist.

make or take a multiplayer mission. open the mission file with Notepad and ad TempestMKV someware in the list of other planes.

Atomic_Marten
07-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Ugly is good. I have a natural weaknes for ugly and crappy things and if it rattles too I'm in heaven.
Uglyness usually also is a good insurance for mediocre performance, wich also is good.

This is some seriously good sig material.

@p1ngu666?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Atomic_Marten/Smileys/cucumber.gif

Tachyon1000
07-10-2005, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by skabbe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

you ad TempestMKV in your airplanelist.

make or take a multiplayer mission. open the mission file with Notepad and ad TempestMKV someware in the list of other planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's that simple, shouldn't we already know something significant about its performance relative to the 190? If it can be done, why speculate??

MEGILE
07-10-2005, 05:35 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-10-2005, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skabbe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

you ad TempestMKV in your airplanelist.

make or take a multiplayer mission. open the mission file with Notepad and ad TempestMKV someware in the list of other planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's that simple, shouldn't we already know something significant about its performance relative to the 190? If it can be done, why speculate?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because right now you can't really aim because you can't get inside any cockpit so it has to be done externally. Also, we can't check top speeds to see if its accurate, and the aircraft is missing its historical weapons, ammo capacity, and we have no idea how much time has been spent on the FM.

MEGILE
07-10-2005, 05:41 PM
Icefire you said what I was thinking, but too lazy to type. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Tachyon1000
07-11-2005, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skabbe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

you ad TempestMKV in your airplanelist.

make or take a multiplayer mission. open the mission file with Notepad and ad TempestMKV someware in the list of other planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's that simple, shouldn't we already know something significant about its performance relative to the 190? If it can be done, why speculate?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because right now you can't really aim because you can't get inside any cockpit so it has to be done externally. Also, we can't check top speeds to see if its accurate, and the aircraft is missing its historical weapons, ammo capacity, and we have no idea how much time has been spent on the FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, that's quite a list of no-can-do's. Hard to believe that the Tempest would be put in game without its historical armament as what would be the point, but if you say it isn't then I am sure you are correct. Basically, I saw what appeared to be four in-wing Hispanos. I assume these would operate much as they do on that Spit that has 4 Hispanos.

Also without a cockpit, testing is difficult but one might merely test the plane's performance from the external view. As you say if the FM is not fully fleshed-out that is problematic as well, but again why would it be put into the game unfinished in this respect? If Oleg included it in 4.01 just for it to be a target and be monkeyed with, I hardly see the point in having included it, thus I assume it is nearly as complete as it can be without the cockpit. I could surely be wrong and probably am.

woofiedog
07-11-2005, 09:22 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Will we be able to hitch the Tempest up as a Mistel in the next patch.
Loaded up with a few 1000pd bomb's this will be a Great Aircraft to drop from the Fw-190 into for say a Bridge or Etc..

MEGILE
07-11-2005, 04:08 PM
So thats a unanimous.. maybe?

mtnman4
07-11-2005, 05:36 PM
If we ever do get a flyable Tempest & if it is modeled as close to "reality" as it should be, then let the Luftwhining commence!

The Temp was arguably the best plane in the war. (& I'm an American & Jug lover). Very fast, (built mostly to catch & shoot down V-1's) heavily armed-4 20mm cannons with 200 rnds/gun strong airframe etc. It outperforms the spit at high altitude & doesn't need a continent to turn around.
Watch out blues! When we get the Temps, WC will become a whole different room.

MEGILE
07-11-2005, 06:51 PM
I forsee... 15 K4s, 15 D9s, 29 Spitfire XIVs, and 1 Tempest.

JamesBlonde888
07-11-2005, 11:11 PM
Tempest and Dora...

Six of one and half a dozen o the other I think.

WOLFMondo
07-12-2005, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
Tempest and Dora...

Six of one and half a dozen o the other I think.

exactly. i still put my money on the tempest if pilots are equal however http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-12-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by mtnman4:
If we ever do get a flyable Tempest & if it is modeled as close to "reality" as it should be, then let the Luftwhining commence!

The Temp was arguably the best plane in the war. (& I'm an American & Jug lover). Very fast, (built mostly to catch & shoot down V-1's) heavily armed-4 20mm cannons with 200 rnds/gun strong airframe etc. It outperforms the spit at high altitude & doesn't need a continent to turn around.
Watch out blues! When we get the Temps, WC will become a whole different room.

I'm sorry, but as a Tempest and Typhoon lover and an avid P-47 fan (both in reality and in the sim), I can't let so much rubbish be spouted. No offence, but this has to be stopped. So, I'm gonna get all pre-emptive here and bring some facts to the thread.

Yes, the Tempest was fast but thats about all you got right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. In fact that was only about half right; the Tempest is a spectacular LOW LEVEL fighter.

The Spitfire XI and XIV were NOTICABLY better aircraft at high altitude. The Sabre II peaked its HP output at 4000 feet in FT. M gear (1st stage) and at 16,500 in FT.S. gear. (2nd stage). The Tempest hit its peak speed at 18,000 feet.

The Spitfire XIV on the otherhand hit its 446 mph peak at 26,000 feet and was still doing over 420 mph at 36,000 feet! The peak blower altitudes for the Griffon 65 were 9500 feet for M gear and 23,500 feet for S gear.

From the ADFU trials of the Tempest;

Operational load Port & Starboard Inner - 150 rounds
Port & Starboard Outer 140 rounds

not 200 rpg I'm afraid.

Furthermore the Tempest is far from the best turner or climber in the skies. Not in the leauge of the Spitfire or 109.

Some comments from the ADFU trials of the Tempest:

COMPARISON WITH MUSTANG III

Maximum Speed
26. The Tempest V is 15-20 mph faster up to 15,000 ft., there is then no choice to 24,000 ft, when the Mustang rapidly pulls ahead, being about 30 mph faster at 30,000 ft.

limbs
27. These compare directly with the results of the speed tests. At similar performance height the Tempest has a better zoom climb.

Turning Circle
28. The Tempest is not quite as good as the Mustang III.

Rate of Roll
29. The Tempest is not so good. This attribute may be improved upon later aircraft with re-designed ailerons.

Conclusions
30. The Mustang III has superior range of action and general performance above 24,000 ft. Conclusions should not be drawn below this height, but the Tempest has a much better rate of climb and speed below 10,000 feet.


COMPARISON WITH SPITFIRE XIV

Maximum Speed
32. From 0 - 10,000 ft. the Tempest is 20 mph faster than the Spitfire XIV. There is little to choose until 22,000 ft. when the Spitfire XIV becomes 30-40 mph faster, the Tempest's operational ceiling being about 30,000 ft. as opposed to the Spitfire XIV's 40,000 ft.

Maximum Climb
33. The Tempest is not in the same class as the Spitfire XIV. The Tempest V however, has a considerably better zoom climb, holding a higher speed throughout the manoeuvre. If the climb is prolonged until climbing speed is reached, then, of course the Spitfire XIV will begin to catch and pull ahead.

Dive
34. The Tempest gains on the Spitfire XIV.

Turning Circle
35. The Spitfire XVI easily out-turns the Tempest.

Rate of Roll
36. The Spitfire XIV rolls faster at speeds below 300 mph, but definitely more slowly at speeds greater than 350.00 mph.

Conclusions
37. The tactical attributes of the two aircraft being completely different, they require a separate handling technique in combat. For this reason, Typhoon squadrons should convert to Tempests, and Spitfire squadrons to Spitfire XIV's, and definitely never vice-versa, or each aircraft's particular advantages would not be appreciated. Regarding performance, if correctly handled, the Tempest is better below about 20,000 feet and the Spitfire XIV above that height.


COMBAT TRIALS AGAINST FW.190 (BMW.801D)

limb
39. Except below 5,000 feet the FW.190 (BMW.801D) has a slightly better maximum rate of climb. Because of the Tempest V's speed and clean lines however, the Tempest has a markedly better zoom climb, where the speed is kept high. Against the new FW.190 (DB.603) it is estimated that the Tempest will have a markedly superior climb below 5,000 feet, but a similar maximum climb above that height.

Dive
40. The Tempest pulls away rapidly in a dive from all heights.

Turning Circles
41. There is very little difference in turning circles between the two aircraft. If anything a very slight advantage lies with the Tempest.

Rate of Roll
42. The Tempest V cannot compare with the FW 190.


END OF EXTRACT

So the Tempest is a great aircraft but its not the best, not by a long shot. The 190D9, Spitfire XIV, Mustang III, 109K, La-7, Yak-9, F4U-4, P-47M/N and Yak-3 all have areas where they are superior.

If we are talking the about the greatest fighter of the war my vote goes with the Me-262; sigificantly faster, significantly heavier armed and a significanly better zoom climber than the Tempest. The Allies didn't panic about the "Jet Menace" for nothing; it represented a qualitative leap in air combat. Like comparing a Sopwith Camel to a Hurricane.

MEGILE
07-12-2005, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

exactly. i still put my money on the tempest if pilots are equal however http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Oleg would have to model the Tempest pretty optimistically, if it is to have any chance in playing with the current D9. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

dadada1
07-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
Tempest and Dora...

Six of one and half a dozen o the other I think.

exactly. i still put my money on the tempest if pilots are equal however http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IRL very evenly matched aircraft, so I would'nt put any money on it, too much of a gamble. D13 was superior to the Tempest V as a post war mock combat attests to.

robban75
07-12-2005, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by dadada1:
D13 was superior to the Tempest V as a post war mock combat attests to.

And that was without using MW50 as well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The Dora is still bugged between 1000 and 4000m. for example, it is 33km/h too slow at 2000m. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

MEGILE
07-12-2005, 10:42 AM
Dora was best, and this is reflected well in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mtnman4
07-12-2005, 10:58 AM
ImpStar, you might want to recheck some of your facts.
I suggest this site. It will tell you virtually everything you want to know about any Tempests.
http://www.hawkertempest.se/

MEGILE
07-12-2005, 12:11 PM
That's a pretty cool site, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BigKahuna_GS
07-12-2005, 12:21 PM
S!


Nice post ImpStarDuece.
Thanks for showing the comparisons.

Heres from a german point of view:

From a JG26 Pilot :
Fw 190D pilot Lt Karl Heinz Ossenkop of JG 26 comparing their crate to the opposition.

Spitfire: the D-9 was better in level flight, climb and dive. It was slightly inferior in turns.

Tempest: almost equal in level flight, a lengthy pursuit was usually fruitless. The D-9 climbed and turned better, but was inferior in a dive.

Mustang: the two aircraft were about equal in normal combat maneuvers, which was an advantage to us compared to the A-8. The Mustang was rather faster in a dive.

Thunderbolt: with the Dora-9 we had advantages in level flight, climb and turn. We were hopelessly inferior in a dive.

You'll notice the german pilot saying the Tempest was superior in a dive, P51D was "rather faster in a dive" over a 190D-9 and "hopelessly inferior in a dive" against the P47D.

Since the P51D & P47 are currently not superior in a dive vs a 190D9, it will be interesting to see if Oleg models the Tempest superior in a dive vs the 190D9.

I love the Tempest----hope it rocks like it did in real life !


___

LStarosta
07-12-2005, 12:21 PM
http://www.hawkertempest.se/manuel2.jpg

Clearly, the results will be obvious.

MEGILE
07-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Closterman says, be cool.

LStarosta
07-12-2005, 12:31 PM
On a related note, the Napier Sabre Series VII pulled out almost 4000HP during tests done in 1945.

VW-IceFire
07-12-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skabbe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I've heard there is a way to make AI planes flyable from an external perspective. Is this possible with the current Tempest in game and how does one do it??

you ad TempestMKV in your airplanelist.

make or take a multiplayer mission. open the mission file with Notepad and ad TempestMKV someware in the list of other planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's that simple, shouldn't we already know something significant about its performance relative to the 190? If it can be done, why speculate?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because right now you can't really aim because you can't get inside any cockpit so it has to be done externally. Also, we can't check top speeds to see if its accurate, and the aircraft is missing its historical weapons, ammo capacity, and we have no idea how much time has been spent on the FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, that's quite a list of no-can-do's. Hard to believe that the Tempest would be put in game without its historical armament as what would be the point, but if you say it isn't then I am sure you are correct. Basically, I saw what appeared to be four in-wing Hispanos. I assume these would operate much as they do on that Spit that has 4 Hispanos.

Also without a cockpit, testing is difficult but one might merely test the plane's performance from the external view. As you say if the FM is not fully fleshed-out that is problematic as well, but again why would it be put into the game unfinished in this respect? If Oleg included it in 4.01 just for it to be a target and be monkeyed with, I hardly see the point in having included it, thus I assume it is nearly as complete as it can be without the cockpit. I could surely be wrong and probably am. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hispanos yes...but only a small number of Tempests were fitted with the same Hispano type as that mounted on the Spitfire.

The Tempest V, at least the vast majority of them, used the specially designed Hispano Mark V. The Mark V had some notable improvements in performance.


The British were impressed, and by 1939 the Hispano was in production in Britain. Originally it was fed from a 60-round drum, but in the autumn of 1941 a satisfactory belt-feed mechanism was produced. The Hispano was slim, but long (2.36 m long, compared to 1.76 m for the ShVAK) and heavy. Rate of fire of the Mk.II version was lower than that of other 20 mm cannon, but the muzzle velocity was high. Initially, solid AP ammunition was preferred, but later in the war a mixture of HE/I and SAP/I was introduced. The Mk.V was a lighter and faster-firing version, without in-flight cocking mechanism and with a shorter barrel.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

Comparing the two weapons (Mark II vs Mark V), you see the Mark V had a rate of fire of 750rpm (vs 600), a muzzle velocity of 840 m/s (slightly reduced from 880 m/s), and reduced weight. The Mark V's cannon barrel was shortened to fit inside the Tempest V's wing and therefore was flush mounted. There are no protruding cannons on the Tempest we have in game therefore it is a Series II Tempest with Hispano Mark V cannons.

In testing the cannons with the AI version, I discovered they were fitted with 125 rounds (total 500). This is incorrect for even the lowest ammo ammount. It should be either 150 for the low or 200 for the high.

Proof:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/imgs/Closterman1.jpg
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/imgs/Closterman2.jpg

The rest is speculation. The turn, roll, and such seem to be about right. The plane is not exceptionally agile in roll but its turn is decent over short periods (enough to out turn a 190 or 109 for a quick burst at high speed). Speed is not really measureable but I suspect it may not be quite right yet.

So there are some attributes of the plane done very well (or seemingly so) and other attributes which are done poorly, probably due to lack of information or time to research. I did the research and I have sent it in since 4.01 was introduced.

jessi1
07-12-2005, 12:55 PM
Fix the speeds on the dora and strengthen the mgs (not the 20mm) and you have a match up.

ImpStarDuece
07-13-2005, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by mtnman4:
ImpStar, you might want to recheck some of your facts.
I suggest this site. It will tell you virtually everything you want to know about any Tempests.
http://www.hawkertempest.se/

I already have the sight book-marked. I think you are getting your Tempest variants mixed up. The only Tempest Mk to see active service was the Mk V. The Mk II, even though it has a lower mark number, saw post war service. It was still a low altitude fighter, making 442 mph at 15,000 feet and was not markedly different from the V in handling.

My facts come from my copy of the Official Air Defence Fighting Unit (ADFU) trials of Tempest V, Series 1, Aircraft No. JN.737 which was delivered by the Hawker Aircraft Company on 8th January 1944 and was the 8th production Tempest to roll off the lines at the Hawker aircraft factory in Langley, Buckinghamshire. The comparative trials were conducted at Boscombe Downe on June 15th, 1944.

You can't get muh more accurate than that, I'm afraid. First hand, professional accounts of the flying qualities of the Tempest. You can find an online copy of the ADFU trials HERE (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/tempestafdu.html)

Before I forget as well; the Tempest was never "built mostly to catch & shoot down V-1's". The design of the Tempest springs from Sydney Camms attempts to attempt to rectify some of the problems that were found in the Typhoon, mostly its poor climb and altitude performance. These studies began in March of 1940, at least 3 years before the V1 became known to the Allies and more than 4 years before it was used operationally.

AerialTarget
07-13-2005, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by F19_Ob:
P-38 performs too well now to place itself high on the rankinglist but it's extreem uglyness makes up for the loss big time.


I want a duel, sir, for you have insulted my lady. The choices of your aircraft and our altitude are yours.

WOLFMondo
07-13-2005, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
S!


Nice post ImpStarDuece.
Thanks for showing the comparisons.

Heres from a german point of view:

From a JG26 Pilot :
Fw 190D pilot Lt Karl Heinz Ossenkop of JG 26 comparing their crate to the opposition.

Spitfire: the D-9 was better in level flight, climb and dive. It was slightly inferior in turns.

Tempest: almost equal in level flight, a lengthy pursuit was usually fruitless. The D-9 climbed and turned better, but was inferior in a dive.

Mustang: the two aircraft were about equal in normal combat maneuvers, which was an advantage to us compared to the A-8. The Mustang was rather faster in a dive.

Thunderbolt: with the Dora-9 we had advantages in level flight, climb and turn. We were hopelessly inferior in a dive.

You'll notice the german pilot saying the Tempest was superior in a dive, P51D was "rather faster in a dive" over a 190D-9 and "hopelessly inferior in a dive" against the P47D.

Since the P51D & P47 are currently not superior in a dive vs a 190D9, it will be interesting to see if Oleg models the Tempest superior in a dive vs the 190D9.

I love the Tempest----hope it rocks like it did in real life !


___

Closterman makes a real point in his book about being chased by 4 Dora's while persuing another at dusk near Hamburg. He mentions he overboosted for the first time (his words where immediate and extraordinary and the plane jumped forward in regards to the effect) as he saw the persuing Dora's exhausts glowing white hot which I assume was due to full throttle and MW50 or WEP being used by them. After overboosting he left the 4 behind and caught the fleeing Dora shooting it down.

MEGILE
07-13-2005, 07:20 AM
Closterman was 1337

mtnman4
07-13-2005, 01:29 PM
You are correct sir. The Temp wasn't specifically built for V-1 defense but it was used for that9 not totally) until the allies had invaded France. Then as I'm sure you know it spent most of it's time doing ground work.

I didn't mean to say all your facts were incorrect. (I should have been more specific). I was referring to the cannon loadouts, and the turning better than the spit at high altitude. That is due to the shape of it's wing.
I thank you though for your info, as there are a couple of things I was unaware of.

At any rate, lets hope we can get this aircraft into the game. It will definitely get the Luft- boys looking over their shoulders more.

Hastatus
07-13-2005, 04:44 PM
Actually the Tempest was never assigned ground attack duties. The Spit XIV and Tempests based in Holland from September 44-May 45 were the RAFs main air superiority fighters.

They had @500 Typhoons, and Spitfire XVI fighter-bombers for ground attack duties in 2nd TAF. No need to risk Tempests strafing trains. Read the unit histories.

Some strafing missions were done as in the closing months of the war there was not a lot of air opposition, and all allied fighters strafed targets.

VW-IceFire
07-13-2005, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by mtnman4:
You are correct sir. The Temp wasn't specifically built for V-1 defense but it was used for that9 not totally) until the allies had invaded France. Then as I'm sure you know it spent most of it's time doing ground work.

I didn't mean to say all your facts were incorrect. (I should have been more specific). I was referring to the cannon loadouts, and the turning better than the spit at high altitude. That is due to the shape of it's wing.
I thank you though for your info, as there are a couple of things I was unaware of.

At any rate, lets hope we can get this aircraft into the game. It will definitely get the Luft- boys looking over their shoulders more.
Here's some details for you as there's a few you haven't got quite right.

The first Tempest squadrons were No.3 and No.56. No.3 converted to Tempest Vs in April 1944 and No.56 converted just after D-Day. These two squadrons were the ones initially assigned to V-1 duties. They flew the Tempest Mark V Series I. Externally different with the protuding Hispano Mark II cannons, these were the first 100 Tempest V's built and they never saw action (to my knowledge) over the continent.

After D-Day, around september, other squadrons were outfitted with the Series II aircraft and they were posted to the continent at bases like Volkes (when that was liberated). Contrary to what you've said, they on the whole did not fly ground attack missions. Typhoons flew largely ground attack oriented missions...Tempest V's were an entirely different matter.

Featuring the best low altitude combat performance of any RAF fighter and arguably of most frontline Allied fighters, the Tempest V was employed in what became high risk fighter sweeps and armed recon missions (targeting everything in the air and on the ground). Read Pierre Clostermans book "The Big Show" and read through his mission reports. From what I remember, there was not a single ground attack mission exclusively present in his diary during this period. There was the attack on the enemy airfield he talked about but orders were to engage the Luftwaffe in the air or on the ground (this mission proved to be disasterous with the unexpectedly heavy flak and no flak supressing Typhoons).

So do not get the largely incorrect idea in your head that Tempests were flying ground attack missions. The Typhoons were yes, the Tempests were far too valuable to use just for that purpose as the Tempest was the 2nd TAF's top fighter together with the Spitfire XIV. As fast as or faster than the Luftwaffe competition, extremely well armed, good combat radius, decent manueverability, and extremely clean aerodynamics equalled a throughoughbred fighter.

It wasn't without some flaws but it was the ultimate of the wartime Hawker fighters and easily ranks amongst the best WWII fighters if not one thats well known or reconized for its true role.

Hastatus
07-13-2005, 10:41 PM
Actually, I have never seen a single photo of a 2ndTAF Tempest with bombs or rockets under its wings. Only drop tanks or clean.

VW-IceFire
07-13-2005, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Hastatus:
Actually, I have never seen a single photo of a 2ndTAF Tempest with bombs or rockets under its wings. Only drop tanks or clean.
I've only ever seen one rocket photo and a few bomb photos. The rocket photo is rare because, although the Tempest V was fully cleared for operational use of rockets, it never used them in combat.

Most attacks on targets on the ground were trucks, cars, troop transport, trains, and parked aircraft and they were attacked with cannon fire. The same can be said of the Spitfire, Mustang, Thunderbolt, and Lightning all of which were fighters and all of which strafed ground targets of this type.

WOLFMondo
07-14-2005, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Hastatus:
Actually the Tempest was never assigned ground attack duties. The Spit XIV and Tempests based in Holland from September 44-May 45 were the RAFs main air superiority fighters.

tempest pilots were told to attack anything that moved regardless whether it was in the air or on the ground. some tempest pilots racked up large amounts of ground kills. on pilot on the raf tempest dvd talks about attacking trains almost all the time he was flying tempests in winter 1944/45.

MEGILE
07-14-2005, 01:37 PM
Tempests were uber.. I don't think the lufftwaffe could handel them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Except for that one time a TA-152 flew, and engaged one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-15-2005, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Tempests were uber.. I don't think the lufftwaffe could handel them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Except for that one time a TA-152 flew, and engaged one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Haha yes...a low alt turn fight in which a Tempest pilot stalled into the ground.

Not very representative of what the plane should be doing.

MEGILE
07-15-2005, 08:08 AM
You misinterpreted my Fish.
But i'll take what I can get http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

harryrriedl
07-15-2005, 08:45 AM
i just hope it lives up to its reputation

skabbe
07-15-2005, 09:06 AM
well all i got to say is "...On 23 January, 2nd TAF Tempests had their best day, claiming twenty-one kills (including one Me262), without loss" and FW190 is just silly, got more respect for the Bf109...

MEGILE
07-15-2005, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by skabbe:
and FW190 is just silly, got more respect for the Bf109...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif you nice?

LStarosta
07-15-2005, 11:29 AM
You're all n00bs. I can p00n j00 all in my Me163.

skabbe
07-16-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skabbe:
and FW190 is just silly, got more respect for the Bf109...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif you nice? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well in my hands the FW190 is useless, thats why i think its silly. though in your hands...

MEGILE
07-16-2005, 07:31 PM
Flying the focke wulf is like making love to a beautiful woman..
you have to take hold of the stick with both hands, and gently ease it in to position. Don't fire your cannon too early or you risk missing the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

skabbe
07-17-2005, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Flying the focke wulf is like making love to a beautiful woman..
you have to take hold of the stick with both hands, and gently ease it in to position. Don't fire your cannon too early or you risk missing the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I seem to have a problem with German women. They are a bit stiff, no joking around and they never let you see the fun stuff under you. English girls how ever are much more vivid, polite and sometimes imported from sweden. eh now i lost it... Anyway let the best girl win.

TheStriker_p51d
07-17-2005, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Closterman was 1337
this ist tru

he was a l337 h4x0R (he was able to follow a 190 in a dive, whilst h4x0ring in a spit.) NOW isnt that AMAZIN/!?!?!?!?!

p1ngu666
07-17-2005, 05:28 PM
if the series 2 is modeled correctly, it should pwn.

think the mkVI and II had the reduced ammo count because of extra things in the wings.

MEGILE
07-17-2005, 05:29 PM
It will pwn if Oleg wants it to.