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Woke_Up_Dead
02-20-2009, 03:31 PM
Bombers are always fun in dogfight servers when you're flying a fighter, they will either make a nice big target or will give you a goal to defend. I have figured out the attacking part somewhat, but I'm not sure what's the best way to defend a bomber.

So let's assume that it's your typical, open-cockpit dogfight server, the bomber I'm trying to defend is a four-engine American heavy, he's flying at 3-4000m, alone, no other escort fighters, and we will likely only encounter single bandits (probably climbing to meet us or co-alt with the bomber) on our way to the target. I like flying the more nimble fighters like the Yaks or Spits. So where do I set up; how high above him, in front, behind, off to one side? When do I attack the bandit; as soon as he looks at the bomber, when he turns towards it, when he's already firing?

ImMoreBetter
02-20-2009, 04:03 PM
I would go for above. Off to the side/in front/behind would be tricky to say. Obviously most attacks from the enemy are going to becoming from the rear quadrants, but you probably shouldn't let the enemy get that far in anyway.

Do not throttle back to allow the bomber to keep up with you. Lightly weave back and forth or around the bomber to keep your speed up.

Attack the enemy as soon as you can, once he has taken interest in the bomber.
Do not wait for him to saddle up behind the bomber, it is better to jump on him while he is heading towards the bomber, not after.

general_kalle
02-20-2009, 04:35 PM
if he has spotted you but still head's for the
bomber a succesful headon is gonna be difficult..therefore you dont want to go for him head on and when you then miss him which is likely he has more than enough time to carry out 1 or two attacks on the bombers.

if he's no interest in you you might aswell make a lead turn. that means that you begin turning 180% before you reach him so that you will be heading the same way as him just as he passes you and your in a position to engage him.

dont give him space for an attack on the bomber.

DKoor
02-20-2009, 04:42 PM
You can't do much, really.
It's not like in RL where someone is in fear for his life... and besides some guys have a lot of experience and will decimate that bomber before you can intervene, if you ever got the chance to intervene in the first place.

For instance FW-190 is diving on "your" bomber.
He gets in gun range blasts the bomber and just flew away in shallow dive. You in your Yak or Spit can only wave at him.

DKoor
02-20-2009, 04:49 PM
But in the other hand, if you fly on pit always closed server, then everything is changed.
Now you can actually surprise your attacker even if he sees you in approach... he cannot track you and the bomber at all times, it is very easy to lost your bandit on closed pit server and is in many cases fatal (mistake). Once when you caught on FW in your Spitfire you'll be all over him and he can't do anything to get away (that is if you fly semi-decent).

Zeus-cat
02-20-2009, 04:57 PM
What was the most effective tactic in real life? Trying to kill the attacking fighter or just harass him to keep him from attacking the bomber?

AnaK774
02-20-2009, 05:13 PM
Dkoor is spot on, against decently positioned enemy who knows what to do, you can only deny follow up attacks, initial pass is in most cases freebie and if bandit flys for survival, your possibilities stay on spectator only unless you leave bomber unescorted.

Against badly positioned its all different ballgame, but again, if you prefer to actually escort bomber and not wander off too far from your escortee...

1.5-2.5km above and waving on bombers 12 maybe 3-4km ahead would be my pick for position

Woke_Up_Dead
02-20-2009, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
You can't do much, really.
It's not like in RL where someone is in fear for his life... and besides some guys have a lot of experience and will decimate that bomber before you can intervene, if you ever got the chance to intervene in the first place.

For instance FW-190 is diving on "your" bomber.
He gets in gun range blasts the bomber and just flew away in shallow dive. You in your Yak or Spit can only wave at him.

Fair enough, but you probably know that most fighters who attack bombers on the open-pit servers aren't good enough to bring down a B-29 in one pass, even with the big-cannon armed 190's. I'm talking about a more typical case: some intermediate pilot with an energy advantage over the bomber but not over me, attacks a B-29 that's tough enough to survive single passes 90% of the time.

By the way, where is the weak spot on a B-29? On the B-17 and B-24 it seems to be on the wing right outside the outer engine; hitting that spot will set the fuel tank on fire on the B-17, it will often de-wing the B-24, but on the B-29 it only puts holes in the wing while the bomber keeps flying.

xTHRUDx
02-20-2009, 05:43 PM
here's all your info. enalrge your brain
http://www.enter.net/~rocketee...aaf/13thtactics.html (http://www.enter.net/%7Erocketeer/13thaaf/13thtactics.html)

VW-IceFire
02-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
What was the most effective tactic in real life? Trying to kill the attacking fighter or just harass him to keep him from attacking the bomber?
The most effective tactic was used by the 8th Air Force in 1944. Attach groups of escort fighters to fly along the path of the bomber stream with orders to seek out and destroy the enemy wherever found. That meant engaging fighters while they were on the ground, mustering at lower altitudes, or flying in at higher altitudes.

The short term meant that bombers would be exposed to attack from time to time but the long term results were devastating to the Luftwaffe which were often attacked multiple times from takeoff to landing...nowhere to hide or take refuge as the potential would always be there. This also was a huge hindrance to pilot training as those pilots would potentially be exposed to marauding fighters as well.

But thats a strategic type of escort where the long term benefits are the goal rather than short term. Plus you'd still tend to have one group of fighters with the bombers at various times. I don't know what their positioning would be....other than to keep a distance from the formation and keep their speed up and weave back and forth. I think they'd try and spot potential attackers and engage while they were setting up their attack.

Flying through a real life bomber formation was a bad idea....gunners were nervous sorts (can't blame them) and would shoot at anything that didn't have 4 engines).

In game I'll stay high and fly around the bomber(s)...weave back and forth. Soon as I see a threat at their level or higher I do my best to engage and annoy the attacker either causing a break off or causing damage to make their attack on the bombers that much harder.

Escorts that fly at the same altitude or lower and fly at the same speed are worthless to the bomber escorts. Threatening fighters will attack from above.

DKoor
02-20-2009, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
You can't do much, really.
It's not like in RL where someone is in fear for his life... and besides some guys have a lot of experience and will decimate that bomber before you can intervene, if you ever got the chance to intervene in the first place.

For instance FW-190 is diving on "your" bomber.
He gets in gun range blasts the bomber and just flew away in shallow dive. You in your Yak or Spit can only wave at him.

Fair enough, but you probably know that most fighters who attack bombers on the open-pit servers aren't good enough to bring down a B-29 in one pass, even with the big-cannon armed 190's. I'm talking about a more typical case: some intermediate pilot with an energy advantage over the bomber but not over me, attacks a B-29 that's tough enough to survive single passes 90% of the time.

By the way, where is the weak spot on a B-29? On the B-17 and B-24 it seems to be on the wing right outside the outer engine; hitting that spot will set the fuel tank on fire on the B-17, it will often de-wing the B-24, but on the B-29 it only puts holes in the wing while the bomber keeps flying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The best course of action is to keep above bomber and judge about that threat... if enemy is climbing up to meet the bomber, you can do whatever you like with him. You can even left him to B-29http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , it has so powerful defense HMG's.
Now if he is stupid enough to make a pass and return to your bomber paying no attention to you, then catch him from above when he makes the turn to make a second pass.
But you will still have a lot of problems catching him even if you set up your defense position good, because as I said some of the fighters are just tremendously faster than Spitfire or Yak (unless you like to fly Yak-9U which is the best option if you ask me).

RPMcMurphy
02-20-2009, 06:47 PM
I stay above the bombers and fly S turns or circles looking for enemy fighters while staying close, but my bad habit is that I always end up chasing an attacking fighter and I end up away from the bombers and that leaves them unescorted. But I am chasing this enemy plane so I am still protecting them from a potential threat. All I can do is all I can do.
See badguy plane.
Attack badguy plane.
Sorry bomber if another one attacks you durring that process; I'll be back as soon as I can.

DKoor
02-21-2009, 02:15 AM
I oversaw your question about weak B-29 spot... IIRC it was also outter side of the wing, but B-29 is quite a different beast compared to B-17 or B-24. Tougher to down because of many reasons.

Aviar
02-21-2009, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by RPMcMurphy:
I stay above the bombers and fly S turns or circles looking for enemy fighters while staying close, but my bad habit is that I always end up chasing an attacking fighter and I end up away from the bombers and that leaves them unescorted. But I am chasing this enemy plane so I am still protecting them from a potential threat. All I can do is all I can do.
See badguy plane.
Attack badguy plane.
Sorry bomber if another one attacks you durring that process; I'll be back as soon as I can.

This is probably the worst thing you can do as an escort pilot...endlessly chasing an enemy plane farther and farther from the bomber group, leaving them with one less friendly fighter.

However, don't feel bad, as this is typical from most of the online pilots I have seen over the years.

After hosting thousands of coops, I have come to the conclusion that SUCCESSFULLY escorting bombers is the number one hardest mission for an online pilot to complete.

Aviar

Lt_Letum
02-21-2009, 07:00 PM
A good escort should never:
Lose the bombers
Dogfight
Chase enemy fighters
Or
Descend below the bombers

Dustysquareback
02-21-2009, 08:19 PM
I love to fly escort on SOV. Typically, I will fly 2k above and 1k ahead or behind the bomber.

Often the first pass is a freebie - but after that, I'm on their *** and with E to spare.

Choctaw111
02-21-2009, 08:58 PM
I would weave back and forth above the bomber if I were the only one covering. That even works with two escorts weaving back and forth above the bomber and crossing each other.

RPMcMurphy
02-22-2009, 02:33 AM
You don't want me escorting your bomber.
I would go off chasing some planes getting into a furball ending up in a stalag and youd never see me again, except maybe after the war hobbling into some gasthuas on one leg looking for a beer and a sandwich.
I hate escorting bombers. I need training for sure.

jamesblonde1979
02-22-2009, 03:10 AM
The best way to escort a bomber is to clear it's path of opposition. Send a flight ahead of the formation to scout, another to stay close to the bomber and one on each flank.

But I'm assuming this thread is about a single escorting fighter???

It's a lost cause if there are more than one bandit. If you are a single fighter wanting to protect a formation of bombers then make a nuisance of yourself by diving on any fighter attemting to move into position to attack and making a feint, any sensible attacker will be worried about you and have to change their plans. You might be able to hold them off with feint attacks until support arrives.

To me that is the only real answer if you are alone: call for help.

It doesn't matter where you weave about in relation to the bomber formation, the key is having height on your bandits. If they spot you they will be wary, if they don't try and take one out.