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Skarphol
02-02-2004, 02:59 PM
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace and was visible for some seconds.
If the Norwegian Media are correct, this caused a lot of outrage in the USA. And here is what I am curious about: Why does this upset americans, while europeans probably would think "Well, that must have been enormously embarrasing" and just let it be with that. I mean; Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Madonna and many other american pop-stars play on sex all the time, often a lot more than european pop-stars do, and nobody seem to outrage. In Norway we have the US-produced TV-series "Sex and the City" wich is showing a lot more than a single breast once in a while. I suppose that TV-serie is shown in the US to.
So why this reaction to a normal, human breast? It was even partially covered by a piece of jewellery!

I will not be very surprised or annoyed if this thread is locked, because it's completely off topic, and probably a touchy area to. But this is the only forum where i meet US citicens on a daily bases.

Can any of you americans please enlighten me?

Skarphol

Skarphol
02-02-2004, 02:59 PM
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace and was visible for some seconds.
If the Norwegian Media are correct, this caused a lot of outrage in the USA. And here is what I am curious about: Why does this upset americans, while europeans probably would think "Well, that must have been enormously embarrasing" and just let it be with that. I mean; Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Madonna and many other american pop-stars play on sex all the time, often a lot more than european pop-stars do, and nobody seem to outrage. In Norway we have the US-produced TV-series "Sex and the City" wich is showing a lot more than a single breast once in a while. I suppose that TV-serie is shown in the US to.
So why this reaction to a normal, human breast? It was even partially covered by a piece of jewellery!

I will not be very surprised or annoyed if this thread is locked, because it's completely off topic, and probably a touchy area to. But this is the only forum where i meet US citicens on a daily bases.

Can any of you americans please enlighten me?

Skarphol

Zen--
02-02-2004, 03:05 PM
Because it was live on camera....and childen saw it as well.

For concerts that adults go to, such things are fine but when kids are involved that is another story.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

jeroen-79
02-02-2004, 03:09 PM
Yeah, they might get the impression that looking at breasts is fun.

tsisqua
02-02-2004, 03:17 PM
Us Yanks seem to be unable to distinguish between mammary glands, and the rest of the more intimate parts.

Come on, its the first thing that a baby becomes aquainted with, and then we take them away till they are "old enough". They are only breasts.

(two of my favorite things in the world)

Tsisqua

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LW_lcarp
02-02-2004, 03:26 PM
Because Americans are to uptight about such things. We are raised thinking sex and the human body is a bad thing.

"If winning isnt everything why do they keep score"
Vince Lombardi

Chuck_Older
02-02-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skarphol:
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace and was visible for some seconds.
If the Norwegian Media are correct, this caused a lot of outrage in the USA. And here is what I am curious about: Why does this upset americans, while europeans probably would think "Well, that must have been enormously embarrasing" and just let it be with that. I mean; Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Madonna and many other american pop-stars play on sex all the time, often a lot more than european pop-stars do, and nobody seem to outrage. In Norway we have the US-produced TV-series "Sex and the City" wich is showing a lot more than a single breast once in a while. I suppose that TV-serie is shown in the US to.
So why this reaction to a normal, human breast? It was even partially covered by a piece of jewellery!

I will not be very surprised or annoyed if this thread is locked, because it's completely off topic, and probably a touchy area to. But this is the only forum where i meet US citicens on a daily bases.

Can any of you americans please enlighten me?

Skarphol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, it does not "upset Americans". Americans are not "upset" by sexual characteristics. if we were, how could there be so many of us? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The problem is one of scale. What you are hearing is the 'upset' minority. For everyone complaining, imagine all those who are not. It's the same old story: if something goes right, you never hear about it, but if something goes wrong, you'll never hear it's end. The majority of the folks complaining are parents, and there are some prudes, I'm sure, as well. But these people weren't so 'upset' by the dancing that was going on, I'll bet. people are funny.
Second, it's cultural. In Europe, you have many different attitudes and customs. For instance, it is much more common for a European to encounter a nude beach than an American to. So we are generally not as used to seeing a bare breast by chance. Conservatism is alive and well here. By the same token, think of the famous European red light districts, or the Asian ones, were triple X rated theatres are on the sides of the streets, while a general bazaar with outside shops selling non-sexually oriented goods and services in the midst of the same street are the norm. Certainly that would not happen in the US!
Thirdly, the breast didn't 'jump out', that idiot Justin Timberlake (who sould be deported to the moon on general principle) tore Ms jackson's costume. I am sure many folks here immediately thought of a rape act being portrayed as "art" because that moron Timberlake in effect tore her costume off. And although I have no manner of doubt Timberhead, er, Timberlake did it by accident, many folks aren't going to think that, no matter what you say to them.
Fourth, the half-time set is supposed to be carefully planned so no slip ups like this happen (pun intended). In other words: it's supposed to be that this sort of thing is gauranteed not to happen. I think that MTV (who put on the show) will never host a half-time set again.
Fifth, someting you may not understand is American TV. On regular TV channels, you will actually see partial nudity, but only very infrequently as 'shock value', and only past a certian time of night. I think what you don't understand is that 'Sex and the City' is not a regular TV show on a regular TV station at 6 pm, it is on a cable channel, that is to say, a TV station that you pay extra money for the rights to view. There is a rating on these types of shows to warn anyone who may be offended by the show's content. We really like lawsuits and lawyers over here and d@mn near everything has to have a disclaimer so the makers of any type of product aren't sued by some yahoo who thought he should eat a bottle of Preparation H hemerrhoid cream to solve his um, discomfort.

Short version: Americans ain't Europeans and we have different cultural acceptances. This is one of them. I'm not too sure that the Norwegian press has it's finger exactly on the pulse of America, but it did bother a lot of folks.

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

CPS_Dragonaire
02-02-2004, 03:39 PM
Very Nice reply Chuck. As an American, I comlpetely agree with what you stated there... and I for one find the whole thing quite amusing. However, I would not be surprised if the whole thing was staged.

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CPS Co-founder
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tsisqua
02-02-2004, 03:59 PM
Great post, Chuck. Mine was intended to be a bit light hearted, but you are correct about cultural differences. For example:

As a young soldier in Berlin, I was (as many were) invited to join a family for a meal on what was called "German American Friendship Day". I was called into the First Sgt., and was told that a young man would do well to bring flowers to the matriarch of the family, but cautioned me that red was out of the question, as red implies romantic intentions. I was instructed in proper German etiquette, and warned about what subjects were taboo.

While at this beautiful family's home, after our meal, we retired to a tv room. On the tv were advertisments that featured nudity as a theme. Although I thought that this was odd, I didn't mention it. The lady of the home was interested in sharing her memories of WWII, and I was not about to stop her.

At the Wansee there were nude beaches, and the appearance of a breast was not a very shocking thing anywhere, although modesty did require that in public, this did not happen intentionally.

It was nothing either, to see a road worker relieving himself as you were passing by, all pretty much in mixed company. This was also a bit strange to me, but then again, this was not my country . . . it was theirs.

We all have our quirks that others can't understand. I really think that after reading Chuck's post (I didn't see the slip myself), that this shouldn't have happened . . . here.

Tsisqua

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Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

fordfan25
02-02-2004, 04:36 PM
becouse it was Janet Jackson. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.giflol

il_gufo
02-02-2004, 05:16 PM
I believe it most certainly was a collaboration of Janet and Justin. I have seen a close up photo which shows snaps on Janet's outfit where the bra cup attached.

I have seen articles that speculate it was a publicity stunt since Janet Jackson has a new album coming out next month.

As an American I concur with Chuck and the follow on replies that we do have a very different cultural view on what's acceptable regarding nudity/sexuality, etc. I'm not going to try and comprehend the why's of it; I'm sure many people have written long sociological theses on the evolution of morals in different cultures.

tiuborg
02-02-2004, 05:26 PM
Very VERY good discussion threadhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Interesting reading toohttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LeadSpitter_
02-02-2004, 05:27 PM
It didnt upset anyone, just the moronic US media which has nothing else to make a big nothing over.

the stars are puppets and do something supposably shocking just to get recognition to promote new movies cd or anything to get on the front page of a paper.

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Kampfmeister
02-02-2004, 06:07 PM
All of the above. Good post Chuck_Older. As Americans we are much more uptight and prudish than our European counterparts, whether it be sex or alcohol. I think it simply comes down to different cultural attitudes. I also think you can blame a lot of those puritan attitudes to the very vocal religious right faction in this country. Most people could probably have cared less, and found it rather amusing. But you are not going to hear from those that weren't offended rather the minority that were.

I myself grew up in America in a European family, so much of what is taboo in this country has never really bothered me, but I can understand other peoples feelings toward these subjects. Zen also mentioned that many children were watching this program and I have to agree with his point. However, it was a pretty racy display to begin with even before Janet's coming out party. It therefore begs me to ask a question of all the offended parents. Why were your kids watching such a lewd halftime show to begin with, not to mention the game, since football in itself is a rather violent sport? I can't recall the last time I saw a family oriented half time show. There is such a thing as parental control. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down those parents, but they have a responsibility in determining what their kids watch. Of course in this case it was all quite a surprise. Either way, there was no excuse for it happening on prime time television where such things are normally forbidden.

One more thing. I'm glad we don't have the proliferation of nude beaches in this country as they do in Europe. The few I've visited (and I was clothed at the time) were not very appealing. Most of the people on those nude beaches should never have been naked in the first placehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

LEXX_Luthor
02-02-2004, 06:15 PM
Faked?? ---&gt; http://www.drudgereport.com/mattjj.htm

If CBS planned it, they wanna blame it on MTV. Funny we now label the right wing Fascist media corporations as "progressive." Only the combination of white male and Black female is acceptable to the Corporation.

Did they fake the breast too? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


__________________
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aerick2
02-02-2004, 06:43 PM
I thought "progressive" was a euphamism the bleeding heart liberals used on themselves... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Get over yourself. Calling conservatives wing "fascists" makes about as much sense as calling liberals "commies".

Menthol_moose
02-02-2004, 06:56 PM
I really hope it wasnt michael in drag ?!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

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Eh, mates! What's the good word?

JRH147
02-02-2004, 07:16 PM
My two cents.

I am a father of two children under 5 years old. Thankfully, they were out back playing when JT exposed JJ.

Before I had children, I would've thought that was cool and "cutting edge." But now that I've had them, I've become more conservative in my viewpoints to the point that now I find myself offended by such an act during a sports event.

I just wanted to watch football.

I attend church on a weekly basis, but I'm not a right-wing nut that most people associate the word conservative with.

For me, it comes down to decency and a respect for your society. MTV as a general rule has zero respect for the society we live in and relishes in degenerating our children.

There is a huge difference between exposing children to violence and exposing them to nudity/sexuality. Children inherently understand the difference between good and evil and want to know that it is possible to defeat the "bad guys" - either real or imagined.

No matter what you do, either by throwing out your TV or refusing to let them play with guns, they (I guess I'm referring to boys) will naturally engage in "violent" acts. I know parents who have barred such toys and end up finding their boys using brooms or Barbie dolls as guns...they want to know that they have some control over their own fears.

Exposing them to nudity/sexuality, while there's obviously nothing wrong with it when you're older, when you're a child it destroys your innocence. It does nothing but add more confusion about a subject they would never even consider on their own.

It just would have been nice to enjoy a football game without the horse-farting ads, the preaching about the evils of smoking, or has-been recording artists exposing themselves.

So that is why there is a huge uproar about it, although most will forget about it by the end of the week.

Future-
02-02-2004, 07:36 PM
I just checked out the link Lexx_Luthor provided... and honestly, the first thing that came to my mind while looking at the two pictures was "OUCH!". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
If this was a planned move, from my point of view it can be disregarded as "painful" (poor breast) and silly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
If it was unplanned, well, sh!t happens. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, the "painful" part remains. (how can anyone do this to a breast? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif)

To join the discussion about cultural differences, let me tell you first: I'm a german.
Now, while many people here in germany enjoy a somewhat more open approach towards nudity and sex, there's something that is quite confusing for us:
while sex often seems to be a big taboo (even "Sex and the City" is, by german standards, more to be recognized as funny and partly absurd than "erotic"), it is quite common in the U S of A that many people own at least one gun. Also, a broad variety of violence seems to be spread throughout the land, both in games and especially in movies.
This leaves many germans with the strange question as to why violence and death seem to be more "popular" than sex for the U.S. public.
Of course, we know that behind closed doors, most americans enjoy sex a lot more than watching the entire uncut "Rambo" trilogy or going to the shooting range; but in public/media, it seems that it is a lot easier for U.S. people to talk for hours about the latest robbery, a new report of a murder or a bloody gang war, before even for ten minutes anything regarding sex is openly talked about.

I'd be glad if someone could step forward and reply to this, I don't intend to insult or question anything, I'm merely curious. Of course, if you want to know anything that puzzles you regarding germany, go ahead and ask.
Although we are somewhat way off topic on this board, I think this truely is one of the best threads that I ever saw here, and I really hope we can continue it on for some time.

S! gentlemen

- Future

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tsisqua
02-02-2004, 08:29 PM
Future,
I am glad that you posted, because I was aware that you were German, and my post refered to Germany, only because it was the only example of which I could speak, having been there for awhile.

I think that the USA attitude stems from the country's puritan origins. One of the reasons that the native americans were looked down upon was their custom of dress, or lack thereof. There are still churches near me that require women to not only cover their heads, but also to be covered all the way to the throat. We have indeed relaxed a good bit from the days when a swimsuit looked more like a burlap sack, but alot of this still hangs on in people that were simply brought up this way, generation after generation.

Americans have tried to keep their children's innocence as long as possible, rightfully so, since they seem to grow up so quickly anyway. However, the "uptightness" often draws our kids away into the very things that we try to protect them from. Others grow up with all sorts of mental disorders when the well meaning parents incorrectly convey the idea that sex is somehow wrong. Let's face it, it is a very important part of life, and is a beautiful expression of people's love for one another . . . not just for procreation.

I'd also like to add that I noticed that in Europe, most people had very healthy attitudes about this. It seemed that, since it was much more easily discussed there, that it was not as big a deal as it is here. I remember Arnold Shwarzenegger several years back, on a live tv show, compared body building to sex, and used some very descriptive words. He didn't seem to understand the uncomfortable silence in the studio. He couldn't have understood at that time.

Amazing how we are all so alike, yet so different.

Tsisqua

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Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

BS87
02-02-2004, 08:33 PM
Because Sex was taught as taboo to americans as we grew up. Just like the "f" word was taught to be a bad thing. If noone had ever drilled it into peoples mines that the "F" word was an insult, it would just be a normal adjective.

WUAF_Badsight
02-02-2004, 09:25 PM
im with Menthol_moose on this one :!

mllaneza
02-02-2004, 10:10 PM
It was a pretty crass move by Timberhead, all things considered. I actually didn't see the event, having lost interest in the massive sucking sound coming from my television. MTV should be happy people are talking about the breast rather than how awful the show was. CBS is certainly dead set that MTV never do another halftime show, compared to last year it may be one of the worst ever.

Now, this *is* the sort of thing that the FCC takes a dim view of. And the family values set has, by their standards a legitimate point that, if it was deliberate, was well outside of community standards for a family event like the Superbowl. Maybe the costume malfunctioned, maybe it was a (stupid) prank,

And for the rest of the world, who got a head start on colonizing the New World ?

The Puritans.

Any more questions about why the country is uptight ? Many of the original 13 colonies were founded by religious seperatists. The same kind of guys that have compounds these days. The 60-70% that doesn't take things that seriously doesn't mind the occasional boobie on tv and might actually wonder why the FCC allows so much violence on tv.

Oh, and partial credit for answering "Eskimos" above.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

kyrule2
02-02-2004, 10:39 PM
For me the bottom line is that the half-time show during the super-bowl was simple-minded entertainment for simple-minded people. It was nothing more than a raunch celebration of the "me" generation. Seeing people grab themselves and talk about sex like it is some trivial thing is disturbing. We are accepting more and more in the US and I think our moral standards have declined greatly. I'm not singling out this incident, I'm looking at the situation as a whole and the trends that seem to be appearing (and have for some time).

I work in the city (social worker) and see ALOT of families with numerous children of teenage parents. Desensitizing something like sex which can have dire consequences is dangerous and inexcusable IMHO.

I guess I'm old-fashioned but I think this country seriously needs to take a look at where its going in terms of moral acceptance as far as the media is concerned. We have way too many songs and television shows about violence, sex, drugs, etc. Children simply start viewing these things as part of life, no big deal. Unfortunately it sells but we suffer in the long run, something the record labels and producers don't give a damn about.

Like I said, simple-minded entertainment for simple-minded people.

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LEXX_Luthor
02-02-2004, 11:15 PM
Yeah the Implant jumping out was a filler, literally, for lack of entertainment value.



__________________
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AcesHigh_AVG
02-02-2004, 11:30 PM
I agree with kyrule2 and the other guy who posted talking about his kids.

I think it is terrible that that sort of thing is happening during the superbowl a time when the most viewed sports event should be open to all viewers both young and old. The constant use of sex as entertainment is degrading this country's fiber and that fiber is the family. It is encouraging kids to experiment with sex and as a result there are more single mother families than ever before. About 80% of the girls I work with, and have worked with, all have at least one kid. None of them are married or even have a live-in boyfriend. That means that the kids are going to grow up within a very unstable household. They will not have the same attention given them since their mothers are out working all the time and their fathers are out fathering other children with different girls. They also won't have the same advantage economically since most of the mothers have not finished college and are forced to work minimum wage jobs. The rest of the families that have married and had kids are therefore forced to pay to help support the growing number of unwed mothers through their taxes. In all this is going to mean the United States will deteriorate from the inside because we are not giving as great an opportunity to our children as our parents and grandparents gave to us.

I'm not saying that this one incident is the cause of all of this, but incidents like this in their culmination will be like a rushing tide beating down the foundation of our country.

You may call those of us who believe this, "facists" or "prudes", but the fact of the matter is that this deterioration will occur. It happened in the Roman Empire as well. While "facists" and "prudes" tried to stop the empire from crumbling from within (a great deal was done to try to stop the rampant open sexuality) they obviously didn't succeed, so you shouldn't fear us today, rather fear yourselves and your own lack of foresight.

The same is happening in Europe as well. No one can say that the effects of this open sexuality have not taken their toll there as well. My uncle lives in France and he has attested to the same problems as we share in the United States.

This isn't to say that sex is not a great thing. It is. Its just that it is more powerful than most people imagine and can destroy as well as it can give pleasure.

tsisqua
02-02-2004, 11:41 PM
Well, seeing that I did not see the live show, I went to Kazaa and downloaded a video clip, and I must say that I am convinced that it was planned. I really can't see someone decorating her nipplage the way that she did if she didn't know that it was going to be seen. The snaps on the cup allowed JT to pull it off quickly, and there was no time for the censors to do anything about it. The last line in the song "I'll have you naked before this song is through . . ." or whatever he said . . . all part of the act.

I have to wonder if this wasn't all started by the Britney/Madonna kiss. The publicity generated was good for both their carreers, and I'd guess that Justin and Janet wanted to get in on the act. The sad thing is that it probably worked.

Tsisqua

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LEXX_Luthor
02-02-2004, 11:42 PM
AcesHigh_AVG:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You may call those of us who believe this, "facists" or "prudes",<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I called the Media Corporations "Fascist" not the people. If the media really wanted to entertain, they would write better script than jumping Implant.



__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
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IcarusXP
02-03-2004, 12:03 AM
I missed it. I was working and listening to the game on the radio. And I have to say that was the best played game of football in a long time.

What gets me is, when did we Americans become so anal retentive that a 2 secound boob shot puts our media in an up-roar? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The sad thing is, we get no game highlights, or replays because everyone is so flipped out over a boob.

Oh, man, I'm moving to Canada...at least they have basball and laugh at the streakers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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T_O_A_D
02-03-2004, 12:05 AM
A boob loose Bha!! Didn't bother me!

What did was seing Kid Rock with our flag cut or torn to slip over his head and worn as a smock, then taking it off and tossing it back into the band. While singing how proud he was to be born here. Did he miss the class on how to take care of our flag? I was at work and only got to see glimps of the show and it was black and white tv too. So I basicly missed the boob till I woke up today and found out about it. My first thougt was well she stole the show then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for raising my kids well for one they are girls so they have boobs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Second is i expose them to the worldin small steps. Then see how they react, at what given reaction they have my wife and I discuss it with them. Unlike my folks Kept me in a dark room. When I escaped I went wild, wild , nearly spent time in the jail house for my ignorances. My brother is still lost. So I try not to hold my kids down like squeazing a watermelon seed , cause when you loose grip there is no telling were it will land.

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[This message was edited by T_O_A_D on Tue February 03 2004 at 02:43 AM.]

GAU-8
02-03-2004, 12:18 AM
hahaha..

i LIVE in houston..and i have NO idea WHO won....or whats worse..WHO WAS PLAYING!

but i heard abbout "the nipple attack on public television"

i dont mind that it happened, i just mind that it was JANETS.... i can think of better boobies to be "misplaced" on TV purpously

Future-
02-03-2004, 12:43 AM
@ AcesHigh_AVG & Kyrule: Well, gentlemen, you are partly right. Unleashing today's youth to find out about the pleasures of sex on their own is certainly not the right way. But also, it's wrong to make them believe sex is a bad thing.
Basically, I think a more open minded approach is needed. Don't block everything that has to do with sex from the kids; instead, talk with them and help them to learn the important things about love and sex. Tell them about both the pleasures and the dangers that come with it. Sexual education is needed, along with a less "prude" common reaction about sex.

Now, it's true that here in Europe, we also face problems with teenage girl mothers. Although we have a more open general philosophy regarding sex, today's youth has become too much sucked into the industries' fangs... many young people overate the will to be cool by far. They sometimes even refuse to admit that they are wrong or don't know something, just to not lose their "face" in front of their friends/schoolmates.

So, what can we do? The solution is (basically) simple: let your kids know that you are there for them, that they always can come to you no matter what trouble they are in, talk with them about why you want them to do this and why you want them not to do that.
Teach them that it's not that important what others think or do, help them to find their own way.

Remember:
Something that is new AND forbidden is most interesting to the young, but if they at least know the important facts and know their parents won't eat them alive if they decide to do it, there can't be much going wrong. In the end, logic prevails.
At least that worked in my case... I'm 23 years old (young!) now, and apart from new year's eve, I never drink alcohol; I don't smoke; never tried drugs (never wanted to!) and apart from two close calls, I succesfully managed to avoid making a baby so far. I think I did well for somebody that had his "first time" with 15.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

pourshot
02-03-2004, 12:59 AM
I think it's very interesting to see how other people see the world.I think most Australians are easy going when it comes to nudity so long as it's appropriate for the time and place.

Like at the beach nobody cares if a woman wants to sunbath topless,but if she was to go to the shop next to the beach topless well thats just being a exhibitionist.

And God forbid I should ever have a shower without half my family walking in and out all the bloody time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif However It's no big deal just life ,I'am yet to see someone with something new http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

kyrule2
02-03-2004, 01:10 AM
Future, I understand what you are saying and that a balance is required. This is pretty obvious to anybody with common sense (which there are surprisingly few) though. The fact is in America we are bombarded with sex, it is everywhere. I just think it is time for a change, a little more restraint.

To see what a liberal/uneducated attitude towards sex results in I invite anybody to walk through the rescue mission with me and see all of the 16 year-old mothers, while the fathers are long gone and off to score again. Hey, its just sex.

But yes, you make some good points, especially about parenting. The problem is that the parents are never around anymore, and there is usually only one. The family nucleus of the US has been breaking down for some time, and I think liberal attitudes/desensitization of sex, violence, drugs, etc. is a big factor. Just my thoughts.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

Rajvosa
02-03-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Well, seeing that I did not see the live show, I went to Kazaa and downloaded a video clip, and I must say that I am convinced that it was planned. I really can't see someone decorating her nipplage the way that she did if she didn't know that it was going to be seen. The snaps on the cup allowed JT to pull it off quickly, and there was no time for the censors to do anything about it. The last line in the song "I'll have you naked before this song is through . . ." or whatever he said . . . all part of the act.

I have to wonder if this wasn't all started by the Britney/Madonna kiss. The publicity generated was good for both their carreers, and I'd guess that Justin and Janet wanted to get in on the act. The sad thing is that it probably worked.

Tsisqua

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't have said it better myself, Tsisqua! I mean, look at Justin. He's not even surprised and definitely not embarassed. If I incidentally exposed one of my coworkers breasts, I'd die of embarrasment! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Discusting attentionseekers. Bring the Boss on!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

JRH147
02-03-2004, 01:11 AM
Future -

All I can say is I felt the same exact way you did when I was in my twenties. Something happens (or at least happened to me) when I actually had kids of my own (and am now in my 30s). I don't think there's anything wrong with sex or that it is bad, and I certainly won't teach that to them - but there is something about having your own that tends to make you more conservative.

Icarus said
"What gets me is, when did we Americans become so anal retentive that a 2 secound boob shot puts our media in an up-roar?

The sad thing is, we get no game highlights, or replays because everyone is so flipped out over a boob."

That's the whole point - there is a significant amount of the population that does care and so a really really great football game (with some amazing quarterbacks) isn't even mentioned the next day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Aside from the halftime show, that was one of the greatest Super Bowls I had ever seen (and I didn't even know who was playing until 5 minute prior!)

As a side note - this thread is really unique - I was a little reticent to post something almost "political" because these kinds of posts usually drive me nuts, but I'm really pleased that it's gone well (so far...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

So I have a question back at the Europeans - are all Europeans socialist/leftist/progressives? (Please don't take this as a derogatory term) The reason I ask is because from the magazines and the news sites and posts from Europeans here, it certainly seems that way. Are there any conservative voices over there that you actually respect? (In other words, you don't feel are completely right-wing-fascist-nuts) There are a few leftist thinkers that I respect here in America (although I completely disagree with them) because they present their opinions rationally and intelligently.

Do you have similar types in Europe or do you believe them all to be religious zealots?

Skarphol
02-03-2004, 01:36 AM
Firstly I would like to thank you all for an amazing number of very well written answers to my questions! I started this thread before I went to bed last night, and as I come to work there are thirtysomething excellent answers. I'm really stunned!

Now, back to some thoughts I've made, while reading your answers:
- The outrage does not apply to all americans.
- Many of you are very good, conserned parents!
- The cultural differences between the US and Europe are alive and well, but is no barrier of mutual understanding

Future_ wrote: "So, what can we do? The solution is (basically) simple: let your kids know that you are there for them, that they always can come to you no matter what trouble they are in, talk with them about why you want them to do this and why you want them not to do that.
Teach them that it's not that important what others think or do, help them to find their own way."

That's an opinion I support with all my heart, and are trying to teach my two sons on 2 and 6 years. It's a little bit early on the 2-year old though..

JRH147 asks: "are all Europeans socialist/leftist/progressives?" and the answer is of course NO! Norway, to take my country, is the only nation besides Iran that is run by a priest! (Our Prime Minister is priest of education) Myself, I have allways voted conservative.

When it comes to teenagers giving birth in the US: In Norway, the average age for a woman giving her first birth is between 29 and 30! And we have been very open minded to sex during most of the 20th century. We are only 4.5 mill people though, and makes up a very little percentage of Europe.

As I started this thread last night, I tried to think of how often my 6 year old son has been exposed to a bare breast. He sees my wifes two breast at least once a week, and through the media in general; breasts at least twice pr. month..

Anyway, I'm starting to grow proud of this forum, as this has really "enlightened" me, as I asked you to, and the thread has not deteriorated to flaming and pointing fingers!

Skarphol

Ankanor
02-03-2004, 03:23 AM
there is a whole music industry in Bulgaria that lives on selling sex. To explain a bit better: 99.9% of the singers are women in the 20s, some even teenagers, who sing nonsense, but in their videos they wear almost nothing. Most of them look like barbies... In fact I have talked to some friends that turnthe sound off when they watch such clips http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.
And most of them wear miniskirts...

F19_Ob
02-03-2004, 04:28 AM
then ofcorse Media always tries to make shocking news of everything and try to portay ordinary uninterresting things as "shocking" and it seems to work.

Slush69
02-03-2004, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

(...)

Short version: Americans ain't Europeans and we have different cultural acceptances. This is one of them. I'm not too sure that the Norwegian press has it's finger exactly on the pulse of America, but it did bother a lot of folks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet (which I'm sure has gone up in flames), but just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for a balanced and thoughtful reply, with which I agree wholeheartedly.

thnx/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

Slush69
02-03-2004, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AcesHigh_AVG:
You may call those of us who believe this, "facists" or "prudes", but the fact of the matter is that this deterioration will occur. It happened in the Roman Empire as well. While "facists" and "prudes" tried to stop the empire from crumbling from within (a great deal was done to try to stop the rampant open sexuality) they obviously didn't succeed, so you shouldn't fear us today, rather fear yourselves and your own lack of foresight.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fascinating theory there. Of course it flies directly in the face of most established knowledge about the decline and fall of the Roman empire, but fascinating nonetheless. Especially if you could substantiate that rant a bit?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The same is happening in Europe as well. No one can say that the effects of this open sexuality have not taken their toll there as well. My uncle lives in France and he has attested to the same problems as we share in the United States. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a European this makes me a bit concerned. Exactly what problems do I face over here because of open sexuality? I'd really like to know.

cheers/EoE

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

HansKnappstick
02-03-2004, 04:50 AM
Aside of perhaps Norway, in all European countries you would be labeled as a ******ed conservative if you said you were embarassed by seeing an incidentally exposed female breast in a place it did not belong to. As a matter of fact, show business is believed as a place where sex does belong to (vide Ankanor's post, not so much in Germany but moving in that direction fast).
Youngsters get introduced to various things (not only sex, also smoking) way too early for them o realize consequences. But these are of a different kind than in the U.S.: we have some specialized medicians here who take care of those girls' problems. Those visits are commonly viewed with equal moral charge as, say, a tooth extraction. So contrary to the opinion of Future, we have too feww children in Europe.
Not that I believe teenage mothers to be the solution - just the opposite, a solid fundament of family values is getting lost on this continent. But now I start sounding as a revisionist...

Bill_Door
02-03-2004, 06:45 AM
Really a great discussion. To be honest, i donâ't expect this kind in this forum anymore.
@JRH147
- are all Europeans
- socialist/leftist/progressives? (Please don't
- take this as a derogatory term)
No problem. To call someone "socialist/leftist/progressives" is not derogatory in Europe. This is a US invention I guess. Another cultural difference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But to answer this:
No, not all are socialists.
And yes, from a US point of view, compared to guys like Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney and so on, even the most conservative Europeans are bleeding heart tree huggerâ's.
So this is really hard to compare. I often got the impression that the same values that are rated as conservatism in the US, appears in Europe by politicians who calls themselves as "liberals" or "neo-liberals" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif But this is only true for their economic views. They donâ't have this religious attitude.

@HansKnappstick
It is much easier to get an abortion in the US than it is in Germany. And i really donâ't think that any woman who decided to go through this look at it as a "tooth extraction" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

AcesHigh_AVG
02-03-2004, 07:22 AM
Slush69

I believe the fall of the Roman empire had as much to do with Roman attitude than with any other factor. As the Roman empire progressed it shifted from very traditional, often very extreme family and national values, to very self-centered values.

In the beginning Romans were bound together by the common goal of a strong nation. This was secured by strong families and family values. Loyalty, trust and mutual support within the family spilled out into the political and national areanas, and led to strong national values and solidity. As Rome grew stronger militarily, and as a result economically, the attitudes shifted from an extroverted value system, which provided national strength, to a more introverted attitude where many Romans focused upon their own pleasures and desires without thinking about the consequences.

This introversion of values was possible since the precieved threat of Rome's enemies were held at bay by the strong Roman military machine. Introverted values led to open sexual attitudes among other things (i.e. rulers who where concerned more with their own status than with the preservation of the empire).

These attitudes, especially about sex were largely foreign to the attitudes of the early Roman empire. As these more open attitudes progressed the empire slowly became disloved from within as the focus of life was upon pleasure rather than upon the necessities of maintaining a strong national unit. There became a divide between "conservative" Romans who wanted a return to the old way of life within the empire and the more "liberal" Romans who were only interested in new forms of pleasure and the prusuit of these things (whether they be sexual or otherwise).

In the end there was too great a rift between each Roman individual, as each desired to find their own personal pleasure. The result is a lack of cohesion on the national level and the eventual disintegration of the Roman state from within, which opened the doors to destruction from outside forces.

I am by no means saying that sex was the only cause of Roman disintegration. I believe it to be more of a measuring device that shows the level of progressive attitude change within a society that will eventually lead to its downfall. There are many other attributes besides sex which led to the downfall of Rome. Political lust by politicians who were out only for their own glory, general lust for riches by the more affluent Romans. A desire to expand beyond their limits militarily, primarily for the gain of riches. And the lust for entertainment besides sex, such as the games, where violence is glorified for the entertainment of the masses.


About Europe. You may not realize what you face in Europe as you like many may feel the government is taking care of the problems of single mother families etc. The fact is that the money being used to care for these people is coming out of every citizen's pocket, since that is the nature of government. I realized this when I worked with several single mothers. Society at large is paying for what the father of their children should be paying. This of course is not a problem if there are not that many single mothers. However, as their numbers rise so do the expenses that must be borne by all citizens. In the end the greater the number of unwed mothers the more everyone must pay, it eventually will become a great drain on society when you must pay for not only your own kids but the kids of every delinquint father.

Bill_Door
02-03-2004, 07:40 AM
AcesHigh_AVG
right, "the money being used to care for these people is coming out of every citizen's pocket"
but if you dont pay now for the education of this children, you will have to pay later - for prisons!
Btw, ether if they are your kids or the kids of someone else, they all deserve a proper chance! Dont let the suffer because of their family status.
But this is theoretical. I dont have numbers at hand, but I dont see a problem with huge numbers of single (juvenile) mothers in Europe.

HarvenDEJ
02-03-2004, 07:57 AM
Aha.. of course it was staged.. everything is staged now-a-days... And for the people whining about the kids.. what is a kid? Like a 16 year old? Think they are offended.. bah.. the girls can look at their own breasts.. the boys look at the girls.. this social brainwashing has gone far enough.. Parents are to blame http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif... Stop acting like everything is evil and bad.. Men are not attracted to breasts naturaly I believe.. I believe due to society making them such a taboo.. such a forbiden fruit of life.. that is what attracts people to it.. Because you aren't supposed to see them.. and when you do.. you are being "bad" and that turns you on yadda yadda yadda.. ahaha.. Think covering your kids ears from hearing a bad word is gonna do anything? First of all if they know what the word means.. it's no use in covering their ears up because they already know what was said.. if they have no idea what it means.. don't tell them it's a very bad thing that shouldn't be said.. because.. due to human nature..they will get excitment from saying it.. because they know it's bad.. so instead.. just write it off as another word and their wont grow to think it's some object that they must obtain secretly.. so they can use it to thwart their enemies.. come on.. you know what i speak is true!

Slush69
02-03-2004, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AcesHigh_AVG:
Slush69

I believe the fall of the Roman empire had as much to do with Roman attitude than with any other factor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That has traditionally been a popular view, but as far as I know, no semi-modern scholar takes it seriously anymore. The consensus seems to be that it was far more complicated than just a morale decline.

Among the reasons mostly mentioned are economic factors, a decline of Roman military especially at the limes, and a significant rise in strength of neighbouring cultures.

But, if we for arguments sake accept that civilian morale played a key factor, then how do you explain that the fall of Rome coincided with the rise of Christianity in Rome. Shouldn't that have had the exact opposite effect if there's any ground for that theory?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
In the beginning Romans were bound together by the common goal of a strong nation. This was secured by strong families and family values.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Family values? Interesting choice of words, since I'm led to believe that it signifies quite specific notions in US interior politics.

What makes you think that what you call "family values" has anything to do with how Romans viewed the family, and what values they attributed to it?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
These attitudes, especially about sex were largely foreign to the attitudes of the early Roman empire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not so sure about that. Take homosexuality for instance. While it's true that the Lex Scatina outlawed sex between two male Roman citizens, it was not because of any morale issue with the act itself, as I guess you would have it?

In early Roman times sex was seen as an act of domination. Had two Roman male citizens had sex one would - according to the Romans - have been dominated by the other. His status as a FREE Roman citizen would have been violated.

That's why Romans outlawed sexual intercourse between two (or more) Roman male citizens, but not homosexuality in itself. In fact it was perfectly acceptable and quite widespread, but only between Roman citizens and slaves.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
About Europe. You may not realize what you face in Europe as you like many may feel the government is taking care of the problems of single mother families etc. The fact is that the money being used to care for these people is coming out of every citizen's pocket, since that is the nature of government.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. We support single parents through our taxes, when they do not have their own income. How is that a problem?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I realized this when I worked with several single mothers. Society at large is paying for what the father of their children should be paying. This of course is not a problem if there are not that many single mothers. However, as their numbers rise so do the expenses that must be borne by all citizens. In the end the greater the number of unwed mothers the more everyone must pay, it eventually will become a great drain on society when you must pay for not only your own kids but the kids of every delinquint father.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you brought up 'society'. If X amount of children need Y amount of money, then how will it cost more, if society as a whole pays then if the parents pay. Not because I advocate the former, but from an economic point of view the amount of money is the same, all other things being equal.

Finally: As far as I know, the percentage of single parents is greater in the US then in Europe as a whole. How does that conform with our lack of family values, our support of single parent families (when needed), and our less restricted attitude towards sex?

cheers/slush
(Who's about to call it a day and go home)

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

BaldieJr
02-03-2004, 08:03 AM
Oh who cares?

Lock this before the Ususal Suspects find it.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
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+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
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Friendly_flyer
02-03-2004, 09:04 AM
Hi all!

I usually stay out of such discussions, as they tend to degrade to flame wars, to no good ends for anyone. Being an European, I have tried to understand the American position. I may be miles off, so bear with me:

To understand the apparently irrational fury of US citizens over a single mammalium during a Suberbowl game, I think we Europeans need to understand the significance Superbowl has in US, and the status of the mammalium involved.

First, the Superbowl is no ordinary event. It is held once a year, and in many ways is National day, Christmas and New Years Eve rolled into one. At least for parts of the adult population, this is a thing looked forward too all year. Reflecting this is the high number of people watching it and the fact that it is always started with the National anthem (something that would be seen as ridiculous in Europe).

As such, it is not your average sports event, but a public national ritual, comparable to a Norwegian 17. of May or a British coronation. Had the Queen herself chosen to show a mammalium to the public on such an occasion, it would be an outrage here in Europe too. It would be _very_ bad form, though female anatomy is not in itself considered harmful to youngsters over here.

The second half concerns the owner of the breast. Janet Jackson is to many an icon of "healthy" pop-music, a black girl who has succeeded in a field dominated by white artists. As such, she is not only an icon of success (according to conventional wisdom, everybody loves a winner in the US), but also of racial unity, still a sore spot over there. That she, off all, should choose to degrade Superbowl (the National Rituale) and herself in such a way must have angered many.

Sadly, the racial aspect have also been mentioned by some American media. Mr. Timberlake is a white boy, Mrs. Jackson a "black" (well, she is really mostly white with a few African genes I guess) girl. To rip off a piece of her dress (even if it was arranged, which it doubtlessly was) has been seen as a form of rape by some, as a hint on interracial sex by others. That race is even an aspect in this is a sad, sad thing.

Thirdly, it most also be noted that most Americans don't really care, just like most of us tree-hugging European. It is very vocal minority groups like the absurdly named "Moral majority" who demands Mr. Timeberlakes and Janet Jacksons head on a platter.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-03-2004, 09:40 AM
Haha, the picture is in all the European (at least the dutch) newspapers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't like Justin Timberlake at all and Janet Jackson probably needs to sell some more CD's.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

perioikos
02-03-2004, 09:49 AM
"You may call those of us who believe this, "facists" or "prudes", but the fact of the matter is that this deterioration will occur. It happened in the Roman Empire as well. While "facists" and "prudes" tried to stop the empire from crumbling from within (a great deal was done to try to stop the rampant open sexuality) they obviously didn't succeed, so you shouldn't fear us today, rather fear yourselves and your own lack of foresight."

Why the Roman Empire fell (in five easy to read -- if not perfectly grammatical -- sentences):

What did the Roman Empire in was conspicuous consumption caused by an excess of wealth. Success bred indolence which led to the reliance on foreign troops to maintain the empire.

The military, once pre-eminent and seperated from the traditional constraints of the Republic, gradually turned into a standing army composed of barbarian troops.

This fusion of Roman material wealth with the warrior codes of the barbarian tribes eroded the connections between the military and the concept of the state, in favor of personal (tribal-leader) loyalties.

In essence, the roman empire fell when it was no longer roman.

LOL ...

BTW, it's a free market system ... the evil innuendo-spewing media exists only to satisfy/ gratify your expressed desires ... if you don't play, they'll have to change their game.

blabla0001
02-03-2004, 09:59 AM
So it's wrong for childeren to see a naked breast on TV but it's ok that they suck on them when they are an infant only because they can't remember it when they are older.

If you think about it is ironic that a breast is such a taboo, for us humans the female breats is the fountain of life when we get born, then it becomes a taboo until we are found old enough to find out it can be used for something else then food.

JR_Greenhorn
02-03-2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
...the fact that it is always started with the National anthem (something that would be seen as ridiculous in Europe).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As you may or may not be aware, all sporting events in the US commence with the national anthem--not just hte Superbowl--or so I've heard.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Thirdly, it most also be noted that most Americans don't really care, just like most of us tree-hugging European. It is very vocal minority groups like the absurdly named "Moral majority" who demands Mr. Timeberlakes and Janet Jacksons head on a platter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've got this one nailed, as far as I'm concerned. Many of us don't care either way that it happened, and many more are upset, but I think very few are outraged.

Nice jab at the moral majority, I couldn't agree more.

Huxley_S
02-03-2004, 10:04 AM
I think the whole thing was brilliant. I like Mr Timberlake and as he said to the BBC today he's an entertainer and his job is to give us (the mewling, tedious public) something to talk about and make our lives more interesting.

Personally, I don't think nudity or titilation is anything to get upset about. Possibly the Superbowl isn't the place for it - had it been the World Cup they might have got a more appreciative "Way hey!" response.

I'm sure the controversy will do nothing to stop the sales of their concert tickets or records.

Good luck to 'em!

Friendly_flyer
02-03-2004, 10:22 AM
Thanks, Greenhorn! I guess I wasn't that far off.

BTW: Quite some researchers nowdays do not seek internal reasons for the demise of the IMPERIVM*ROMANVM. Rather, they argue that external factors like deforestation and erosion degraded Roman agriculture, forcing them into larger agricultural units and more intense slavery, thereby effectively abolishing the free Roman farmers. Still, the Mediterranian area suffers the consequence of Roman times. It would take something like 2000 years of non-habitation to bring Italy back to what it was before.

Sex hardly had anything to do with it.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

NorrisMcWhirter
02-03-2004, 10:28 AM
Hi,

What was even remotely interesting about it except that the Timberlake twerp was taking a liberty.

People have been streaking at UK sporting events for years and we are supposed to be the most reserved and uptight of all Europeans. For this incident, I imagine that I'm not the only British person to treat it with a great deal of cynicsm.

A classic double standard - it's ok to market 'under-age' sex with Britney's first release/show her snogging some bints on MTV but it isn't OK to show a tit (sorry, nipple) on the telly.

I was disappointed, actually; I expected Janet to have nips like tax discs.

Cheers,
Norris



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
I think the whole thing was brilliant. I like Mr Timberlake and as he said to the BBC today he's an entertainer and his job is to give us (the mewling, tedious public) something to talk about and make our lives more interesting.

Personally, I don't think nudity or titilation is anything to get upset about. Possibly the Superbowl isn't the place for it - had it been the World Cup they might have got a more appreciative "Way hey!" response.

I'm sure the controversy will do nothing to stop the sales of their concert tickets or records.

Good luck to 'em!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

vanelvis
02-03-2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skarphol:
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace and was visible for some seconds.
If the Norwegian Media are correct, this caused a lot of outrage in the USA. And here is what I am curious about: Why does this upset americans, while europeans probably would think "Well, that must have been enormously embarrasing" and just let it be with that. I mean; Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Madonna and many other american pop-stars play on sex all the time, often a lot more than european pop-stars do, and nobody seem to outrage. In Norway we have the US-produced TV-series "Sex and the City" wich is showing a lot more than a single breast once in a while. I suppose that TV-serie is shown in the US to.
So why this reaction to a normal, human breast? It was even partially covered by a piece of jewellery!

I will not be very surprised or annoyed if this thread is locked, because it's completely off topic, and probably a touchy area to. But this is the only forum where i meet US citicens on a daily bases.

Can any of you americans please enlighten me?

Skarphol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VanElvis Wrote: I am an American and I have no Idea why this offends people. The only reason I was upset was I missed it. I was in the another room for a few minutes when it happened. I guess a few of my fellow citizens are a little uptight. Mabey they have never seen a nipple before. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Bo_Nidle
02-03-2004, 10:41 AM
Being in the UK I didn't see it but come on guys,theres always room for jugs!

Bo_Nidle

"You've got to treat your kite like you treat your woman.get inside her five times a day and take her to Heaven and back"
Lord Flashheart RFC 1917

Friendly_flyer
02-03-2004, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> People have been streaking at UK sporting events for years and we are supposed to be the most reserved and uptight of all Europeans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He-he, showing of your stuff is an honored sports tradition in Europe. It has an old cultural presidence going back to pre-christian times. It's really a sign of superiority. Footballers (soccer players to our American friends) do it all the time, even in prudent, catholic Spain. See the otherwise wildly innaccurate film "Braveheart" for a demonstration of it in its original form.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

LEXX_Luthor
02-03-2004, 11:25 AM
And those Germans. Adolf Galland "the gallant" flew NAKED in Spanish Civil WAR.

...okay, flew in his "underwear." But Spain was a hot place. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

Stille-NachT
02-03-2004, 11:55 AM
I don't mean to start an anti american arguement here...

But I think there are a lot of americans who jump to complain about instances like this, because they know there is alot of sexual abuse etc about there. HArdcore porn can be brought in america freely (in certain shops of course).

There soft core porn also shows alot more than over here.

I don't buy for one moment that over here in england we are say more sexually explicit than america. You only have to look at the thousands of interent porn sites to realise america is quite the "sex" capital.

The loathing for what they know is already rife in their country makes them shout out at "reminders" of whats out there beyond there "friendly" neighbour hood.

"freedom" of speech and expression, I'm afraid is something that can cause alot of problems.

Here in england we simply know the boundries well. So shocking things on Tv etc after the watershed is fine, beacause (again may annoy but sadly true) in england, we are not so "inspired" by what we see on TV.

BpGemini
02-03-2004, 12:20 PM
I think most of the controversy was surrounding the event as a whole. That homo Justin Timberlake was signing about getting Janet naked by the end of the song. He then proceeded to rip her breast cover off her outfit at the end of the act. This sends signals to youth that itâ's ok to run around and disrobe women when they want.

Personally Iâ've probably seen more breasts than most European men so nothing bothered me about this incident. Then again my kids werenâ't watching the half time show either. Itâ's all about perception of safety. Parents will monitor what their kids watch and they were assuming that network television was safe.

Should art and the body become of a less taboo around the world? Probably, but there will always be people who believe otherwise. The U.S. isnâ't nearly as bad as a large portion of the world when it comes to nudity shock.

In the end, itâ's the parentâ's choice on a situational basis and in this case the choice was taken away from the parents. Thatâ's what theyâ're mad about. Not a booby.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

JRH147
02-03-2004, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:

In the end, itâ's the parentâ's choice on a situational basis and in this case the choice was taken away from the parents. Thatâ's what theyâ're mad about. Not a booby.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly what I was trying to get at (albeit not as succinctly).

Drisc
02-03-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kyrule2:
...

I guess I'm old-fashioned but I think this country seriously needs to take a look at where its going in terms of moral acceptance as far as the media is concerned. We have way too many songs and television shows about violence, sex, drugs, etc. Children simply start viewing these things as part of life, no big deal. Unfortunately it sells but we suffer in the long run, something the record labels and producers don't give a damn about.

Like I said, simple-minded entertainment for simple-minded people.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have not read ahead yet so if this is somewhat repeatitive, please forgive me...

I find it ironic that within the U.S. we find it "unacceptable" to show nudity on t.v. (in this case, J.J.'s peep show) but yet we can show countless numbers of violent television programs.

BTW didn't they show "the lingerie bowl"? during the Superbowl? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

well thats all I have to say about this.

VIVA JANET!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

moeity12344
02-03-2004, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Hi,

What was even remotely interesting about it except that the Timberlake twerp was taking a liberty.

People have been streaking at UK sporting events for years and we are supposed to be the most reserved and uptight of all Europeans. For this incident, I imagine that I'm not the only British person to treat it with a great deal of cynicsm.

A classic double standard - it's ok to market 'under-age' sex with Britney's first release/show her snogging some bints on MTV but it isn't OK to show a tit (sorry, nipple) on the telly.

I was disappointed, actually; I expected Janet to have nips like tax discs.

Cheers,
Norris



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
I think the whole thing was brilliant. I like Mr Timberlake and as he said to the BBC today he's an entertainer and his job is to give us (the mewling, tedious public) something to talk about and make our lives more interesting.

Personally, I don't think nudity or titilation is anything to get upset about. Possibly the Superbowl isn't the place for it - had it been the World Cup they might have got a more appreciative "Way hey!" response.

I'm sure the controversy will do nothing to stop the sales of their concert tickets or records.

Good luck to 'em!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, there was a streaker at the Superbowl from what I hear. The station that was airing the Superbowl tried very hard to keep the streaker off camera - and succeeded, but it just goes to show how up-tight our media can be.

ZG10_Oiink
02-03-2004, 01:22 PM
What can i say.....if she atleast didnt had those sadlebacks....darn she is getting old....i realy understand why she had them covered when dancing...she would have knocked her self out with out cover.....

But it is wrong to do this infront of children...its also wrong for about all Danish paper shops to have porn magazines in child hight...and have a public tv chanal showing "late night films"....in the final end it comes down to what the parents have told there children about boobs, butts and the rest of the boy girl thing...there is a natural way to look at this and there is the scared parent way to look at this.....and yes im a parent my self...

BpGemini
02-03-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drisc:
I have not read ahead yet so if this is somewhat repeatitive, please forgive me...

I find it ironic that within the U.S. we find it "unacceptable" to show nudity on t.v. (in this case, J.J.'s peep show) but yet we can show countless numbers of violent television programs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What is generally accepted by each culture is debatable per situation and molded by the opinions of said culture. Some parents let their kidâ's watch/play with violence and nudity in TV/Movies/Games while other parents wont let their kids watch Looney Tunes because of the â"violenceâ".

I generally feel that itâ's best to base each freedom upon the childâ's reaction to freedom (with-in reason). If a child watches Poltergeist for the very first time and has nightmares and visions for the next week then IMO material of that level should be on hold. If the child exhibits an attitude of â"yeah it was scary but itâ's just a movieâ" (itâ's just entertainment) then perhaps that child is ready for that level of maturity. In no manner should you be watching porn with your children (IMO) like I said with-in reason. In another manner, if youâ're watching the History Channel and theyâ're displaying art work of Scipio Afracanusâ' female chariot riders with their traditional one breast exposed then once again you base the content on the reaction of the individual.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

AcesHigh_AVG
02-03-2004, 08:55 PM
Text in quotes originally posted by Slush69

_______________________________________________
"That has traditionally been a popular view, but as far as I know, no semi-modern scholar takes it seriously anymore. The consensus seems to be that it was far more complicated than just a morale decline."
_______________________________________________


I agree. There is much more than just moral decline in the fall of the Roman empire, but I think that moral decline was a great contributing factor, and I am not just talking about sexuality.

_______________________________________________
"Among the reasons mostly mentioned are economic factors, a decline of Roman military especially at the limes, and a significant rise in strength of neighbouring cultures."
_______________________________________________


I agree.

_______________________________________________
"But, if we for arguments sake accept that civilian morale played a key factor, then how do you explain that the fall of Rome coincided with the rise of Christianity in Rome. Shouldn't that have had the exact opposite effect if there's any ground for that theory?"
_______________________________________________


Don't forget that the rise of Christianity came at the very end of the Roman empire. Like I said before, many people did not want to see the moral decline of Rome and I think Christianity opened the door for those people to find solidarity with each other. Christianity also did not immediately change Roman behavior, after all many Christians were persecuted by the Roman government. Christianity was only accepted as the state religion when the empire found that it had decayed so far that some sort of turn around was badly needed.

_______________________________________________
"Family values? Interesting choice of words, since I'm led to believe that it signifies quite specific notions in US interior politics."

"What makes you think that what you call "family values" has anything to do with how Romans viewed the family, and what values they attributed to it?"
_______________________________________________


You mistook my intentions. I was not drawing a direct parallel between current Western family values with those of Roman family values. Roman family values were very different from those we have today. In todays world Roman values would seem very Spartan and at times violently harsh. However, their views on sex were somewhat similar to ours in terms of having children within a marriage, and not acting indecently and shaming the family name. These values would indeed effect the national values slanting them more towards conservatism than anything else.

_______________________________________________
"I'm not so sure about that. Take homosexuality for instance. While it's true that the Lex Scatina outlawed sex between two male Roman citizens, it was not because of any morale issue with the act itself, as I guess you would have it?"

"In early Roman times sex was seen as an act of domination. Had two Roman male citizens had sex one would - according to the Romans - have been dominated by the other. His status as a FREE Roman citizen would have been violated."

"That's why Romans outlawed sexual intercourse between two (or more) Roman male citizens, but not homosexuality in itself. In fact it was perfectly acceptable and quite widespread, but only between Roman citizens and slaves."
_______________________________________________


That is true. However, this neither positively or negatively effects my basic argument. This merely states the conditions found in traditional Roman society. If you move forward through Roman history you find that even these standards are broken in the Roman world. Again don't mistake me, I am not directly comparing modern Western morality and values with Roman morality and values. I don't think that can be done. What I am trying to say is that traditional Roman values were gradually broken down and contributed to the fall of the empire. By our standards traditional Roman values may not seem like any thing we would consider values at all. However, that does not change the fact that their values did change over time.

_______________________________________________
"Yes. We support single parents through our taxes, when they do not have their own income. How is that a problem?"
_______________________________________________


I guess that depends on how you look at the issue and the circumstances.

_______________________________________________
"Since you brought up 'society'. If X amount of children need Y amount of money, then how will it cost more, if society as a whole pays then if the parents pay. Not because I advocate the former, but from an economic point of view the amount of money is the same, all other things being equal."
_______________________________________________


I would have to say I disagree for these reasons. First it will cost more because the single mothers will have to recieve money for both themselves and their children. If the family was whole the husband (in most cases) would be able to provide for his family out of his income. If the state payed then each one of us would have to help foot the bill for what the father would owe to his own family. The costs may or may not be the same, but in one instance the state is drawing money from society to pay for the children and the abandoned mother. In the other the father is taking responsibility for his own family and footing the bill. I guess it comes down to what is fair? Is it fair to expect society to take responsibility for the delinquint father's incurred responsibility or for society to expect him to take responsibility for his actions.
_______________________________________________

"Finally: As far as I know, the percentage of single parents is greater in the US then in Europe as a whole. How does that conform with our lack of family values, our support of single parent families (when needed), and our less restricted attitude towards sex?"
_______________________________________________
I am not sure, but I think that America has a greater population that Europe which could account for the discrepacy. I also know that Europe is also much more advanced (that does not necessarily imply something good) in contraceptives and abortions. I belive Europe was using RU486 well before its introduction to America. I also know that in Europe there is a greater tendency for the man to stay with the mother if there is a child than is the case in America, I'm not an expert on this however.

Take Care,
Aces

dugong
02-03-2004, 09:14 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skarphol:
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace

I live in America. I love it - but it is the stooopidest place on the planet. It is all about being correct - whether it be politicaly, sexually, organically, hypothetically, elomenopely, whatever. That exposed breast upset someone somewhere. Therefore the FCC must do it's best to make amends. It is a goverment orginazation after all.

I think the dancing they did was just as bad as the exposed anatomy. Funny how that is acceptable and the exposure is not. The line is fine, but curves this way and that. None of it really bothers me. I would have liked to see both of them. Oh well.

IcarusXP
02-03-2004, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dugong:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skarphol:
Last night on Superbowl, Janet Jacksons right breast suddenly jumped out of its hidingplace

I live in America. I love it - but it is the stooopidest place on the planet. It is all about being correct - whether it be politicaly, sexually, organically, hypothetically, elomenopely, whatever. That exposed breast upset someone somewhere. Therefore the FCC must do it's best to make amends. It is a goverment orginazation after all.

I think the dancing they did was just as bad as the exposed anatomy. Funny how that is acceptable and the exposure is not. The line is fine, but curves this way and that. None of it really bothers me. I would have liked to see both of them. Oh well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeh, well...Privilage and Responsibility go hand in hand, when one is out of balance we get Tirany, or Anarchy. Take you pick.

The Boob thing was just tstless, and the whole half time show was unapropriate for the audiance.
At least in America you have the right to watch it, ot turn it off.

"The only reason we liberated France was to get to Germany"
-Rush Limbaugh
http://trackpad.home.comcast.net

Friendly_flyer
02-04-2004, 01:54 AM
Well, it's fairly few countries in the world where you don't have the freedom to turn of the telly.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

Slush69
02-04-2004, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AcesHigh_AVG:
(...)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Aces,

Gotta get some work done, so I have to cut this one short. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. In my opinion there's very little basis for the assumption that frivolous sex led to Roman decline. Especially since Roman regulations regarding sex were based on the protection of Roman citizenship and not the act itself. In short: It wasn't a moral judgment, but a legal one.

As for the support of single parent families (there's such a thing as single fathers too, you know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), we simply have different views on the role of government, and we probably won't reach an agreement anyway. But that does not change the fact that, all being equal, it will cost the same amount of money to support single or couple families. Oh, and regarding the US and Europe: I was talking percentage, not absolute numbers.

But as I said: Gotta work, so let's end this here, right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cheers/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
02-04-2004, 06:29 AM
Hi,

I disagree.

In the police state known as Britain, I tried to the turn the TV off only to find that I was dragged out of my house at 3am by men with mirrored sunglasses, tied to a rock, and dumped into the sea for 'crimes against the state.'

Cheers,
Norris



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Well, it's fairly few countries in the world where you don't have the freedom to turn of the telly.

_Fly friendly!_

_Petter Bøckman
Norway_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

HansKnappstick
02-04-2004, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slush69:
Since you brought up 'society'. If X amount of children need Y amount of money, then how will it cost more, if society as a whole pays then if the parents pay. Not because I advocate the former, but from an economic point of view the amount of money is the same, all other things being equal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never in life. If X amount of children need Y amount of money and it is provided by natural parents, the cost for the society is Y. If the money is taken from the taxpayers' pockets, the overall cost becomes Y + Z, Z being the cost of the administration needed for the collection and (re)distribution of money. Z_all is quite huge amount of money in the European conditions, in the order of Y_all, talking all the social benefits not singling the support of single mothers out.

Besides, there are other, not measurable costs caused by the fact that children are raised in incomplete families.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Finally: As far as I know, the percentage of single parents is greater in the US then in Europe as a whole. How does that conform with our lack of family values, our support of single parent families (when needed), and our less restricted attitude towards sex?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One viable explanation is that a statistically significant number of European girls discovered another way of dealing with the problem than becoming a young mother and after that they can just go on without much reflection.

Slush69
02-04-2004, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HansKnappstick:

Never in life. If X amount of children need Y amount of money and it is provided by natural parents, the cost for the society is Y. If the money is taken from the taxpayers' pockets, the overall cost becomes Y + Z, Z being the cost of the administration needed for the collection and (re)distribution of money. Z_all is quite huge amount of money in the European conditions, in the order of Y_all, talking all the social benefits not singling the support of single mothers out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Noticed the "all other being equal"? That includes transaction costs. Speaking of which: I would very much like to see some proof that the transaction costs of social welfare are as large as the welfare paid.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Besides, there are other, not measurable costs caused by the fact that children are raised in incomplete families.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look at statistical correlation then yes: in some strata of society there's a correlation between crime, etc and a single parent family upbringing.

You cannot transform that to a general causal rule or that single parent families lead to extra costs. Since you yourself called those costs "unmeasurable" that discussion will probably lead nowhere, so let's just agree to disagree.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
One viable explanation is that a statistically significant number of European girls discovered another way of dealing with the problem than becoming a young mother and after that they can just go on without much reflection.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are trying to compare apples and peaches. But let's do that. First of all abortion is not harder to come by in the US. Second: The abortion rate is significantly higher in the US then in Europe so the argument is moot.

On a more personal note I find that none of the young women I know, who had to go through the trauma of an abortion, found that it was an easy solution, and they definitely reflected on it then and now. The way you write about it makes me wonder, if you actually know anyone who had to go through it, or if it's just how you would like to think things are.

/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

HansKnappstick
02-04-2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slush69:
As for the support of single parent families (there's such a thing as single fathers too, you know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), (...) it will cost the same amount of money to support single or couple families. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if this was the case, then we have some working mothers and fathers who decided to fulfill their responsibility and support their children themselves (surprise! not everything has to be ordered by the state!). They pay taxes for those families where someone is missing or failing. Thus they pay double the same debt, so to say, but this is okay with the European (or rather Marxist) notion of having to redistribute everything.

HansKnappstick
02-04-2004, 08:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slush69:
Noticed the "all other being equal"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes noticed and allowed myself to disregard. There is no such thing as "all other being equal". The money just does not want to go out of a rich man's pocket and enter the poor man's pocket by itself. Please read Keynes less and start thinking. Or go to your next tax office and take alook at the ammounts of people employed there. Do they create anything? No, they just redistribute your and my money.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
let's just agree to disagree.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed, if you agree not to vote at the next Europarliament election http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The way you write about it makes me wonder, if you actually know anyone who had to go through it, or if it's just how you would like to think things are.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I used to know people like this in the times one does not choose the company, now I do choose and the like types do not fit of course. Now I happen to go to work everyday by the suburbean at the same time young people go to the Uni and I am really affraid of the future of this civilization when I hear them talk.

Blutarski2004
02-04-2004, 08:35 AM
To truly grasp (to coin a phrase) Ms Jackson's mammary "malfunction", it has to be taken in the broad context. It came at the climax (to coin another phrase) of an S&M/Bondage themed half-time show which somehow found its way into a family-oriented Super Bowl telecast. If that was not enough. the Super Bowl telecast was further punctuated by advertisements featuring farting horses, bestiality humor, and erectile dyfunction treatments.

This constitutes proof to me that there is precious little true creative talent at work in Hollywood. The pathetic effluvia which gushes forth from that huge sewer pipe known as the American entertainment industry is generated by a "creative" process which has mistaken cheap and offensive titillation for real entertainment. This wave of offensive slop finally seeped into the Super Bowl, which has up to now been a premier family-oriented sporting event.

The outraged public reaction, IMHO, is most welcome. It is one thing to be open-minded about such matters. It is quite another to have it jammed down our throats in every waking moment.

BLUTARSKI

TacticalSkirmsh
02-04-2004, 08:46 AM
Personally I think most have missed the whole point entirely, unless they actually believe it was accidental http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

The question is should there not be accepted norms of dress and action in public places and events, especially when they are for the general public (i.e., families likely to be present)?

The issue isn't about sexuality, it is about some entertainers going beyond acceptable boundaries, and that without any consent/knowledge of others. I want to know that entertainers will adhere to such norms if they are involved in "general public events."

On a personal note, more and more female (and male I suppose) entertainers/singers are going beyond mild sexuality to help sell whatever "product" they're pushing, into more and more pornograhic ventures.

It seems like there are fewer "women" singers in particular who value themselves and their music enough to dress attractively without exposing themselves completely.

Faith Hill (and I'm sure there are still others) are attractive and use their sexuality but not in the manner that Brittney Spears, Maddonna, Janet Jackson (?) & company do. Personally they lose all creditability with me as entertainers. However, their sales records probably go through the roof. I'm an old prune I guess.

Regards

[This message was edited by TacticalSkirmsh on Wed February 04 2004 at 07:54 AM.]

oFZo
02-04-2004, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HansKnappstick:
I used to know people like this in the times one does not choose the company, now I do choose and the like types do not fit of course. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a person involved in an abortion (being the almost-father) I hereby want to point out this comment hurts me.
What I make up out of your comments is "people involved in these actions are morally corrupt, one should keep them out of one's society."

Thank. you. very. much.

-oFZo
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.bryant3/ETSigHolland.gif
Founding member and Offical Keeper of The Herbs of the Eurotrolls.

"The Lord is coming. Look busy."

AcesHigh_AVG
02-04-2004, 09:43 AM
Dugon,

I think the whole show was bad. The boob incident just topped it off. I think that is why so many people are upset by it.

Blutarski2004
02-04-2004, 09:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TacticalSkirmsh:
Personally I think most have missed the whole point entirely, unless they actually believe it was accidental http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

The question is should there not be accepted norms of dress and action in public places and events, especially when they are for the general public (i.e., families likely to be present)?

The issue isn't about sexuality, it is about some entertainers going beyond acceptable boundaries, and that without any consent/knowledge of others. I want to know that entertainers will adhere to such norms if they are involved in "general public events."

On a personal note, more and more female (and male I suppose) entertainers/singers are going beyond mild sexuality to help sell whatever "product" they're pushing, into more and more pornograhic ventures.

It seems like there are fewer "women" singers in particular who value themselves and their music enough to dress attractively without exposing themselves completely.

Faith Hill (and I'm sure there are still others) are attractive and use their sexuality but not in the manner that Brittney Spears, Maddonna, Janet Jackson (?) & company do. Personally they lose all creditability with me as entertainers. However, their sales records probably go through the roof. I'm an old prune I guess.

Regards

[This message was edited by TacticalSkirmsh on Wed February 04 2004 at 07:54 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Cars, beer, toothpaste. How far in the future can it be before they are "selling" us political candidates in the same manner?

BLUTARSKI

roybaty
02-04-2004, 11:05 AM
I dunno but I think those were pasties we saw anyway (I HOPE http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif)

But seriously the problem is that the bowl is a "family" show, and people shoulda have been advised if there was going to be intentional nudity.

BTW I really don't think it was intentional that the whole bra cup came off. I think the whole front was supposed to rip off to reveal a red bustier or something, but not show too much skin. Kinda a trick to make people gasp for a sec before the realized her tatas were still covered, but things malfunctioned.

I myself wasn't bothered, hell I just got back from Las Vegas of all places http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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Bill_Door
02-05-2004, 03:02 AM
LOL - I just love this:
"CBS announced it will broadcast the Grammys using an "enhanced" tape delay system, an apparent effort to avoid a repeat of the breast-baring incident.

For the first time in the 46-year history of the Grammys, the network will be able to delete inappropriate video as well as audio, CBS said in a written statement Tuesday."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/04/jackson.grammys/index.html

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif"enhanced" tape delay system http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
This is exactly what Iran is doing all the time if they are broadcasting tv-shows like ,football games, from foreign nations. They use a timeslip to give the censors about 10 min. if there is something they dont like.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Ladys and Gentlemen, these are proud times we are watching. The rise of a new axis.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif The axis of the prude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Iran, USA, (who wants to join? Come on, a Axis must have three members? )
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Censors of all countries, unite!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif