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View Full Version : Difficult choice - Track IR or Stereoscopic glasses?



irR4tiOn4L
05-25-2005, 08:59 PM
Hello all i am here because i am faced with a choice - either buy stereoscopic glasses from edimensional which provide a true 3d depth perception (ive had my eye on these for a very long time), or buy TrackIR which puts your head in the game. Track ir is a lot more expensive, and i cant afford both. Right now i use my joysticks pov hat, albeit set up to act as a mouse (love saitek programmability). I find this relatively natural and easy, though i doubt its as good as doing this with your head.

Track IR would be great for competitive play and better situational awareness, but stereoscopic glasses make the entire scene far more real and believable. I dont play online much so its a question of which enhances and immerses you better.

To those who have one or both of these, which is the better choice? How does IL-2 support these features - for example does IL-2 support the vector expansion, and does it work well with 3d glasses. Finally, which is better for other games?

Thanks all!

BlakJakOfSpades
05-25-2005, 09:21 PM
trackir, no question
vector not supported fully, but it does help a little because it'll only register if you tilt your head, with a standard trackir if you lean it moves the view but because vector can differentiate between leaning and tilting it'll help you out

3d glasses don't work well at all, period

-HH-Quazi
05-25-2005, 09:36 PM
I second that. TrackIR m8.

steve_v
05-25-2005, 10:11 PM
tir

knightflyte
05-25-2005, 10:34 PM
There is absolutly NO QUESTION.

TRACK IR!

The glasses have a really cool effect I'm sure.

But, Track IR will make it seem like you are IN the cockpit of your favorite WWII ride. It will improve your situational awareness like no other device can.

Since it seems like your going to buy one of the two anyway...... I'd HEARTILY recommend putting your money down on the TRACK IR.

I've got TRACK IR ver. 1, and I am extremely happy with it. Version 3 should be SOOOOOOOO much better. Been flying for 3 years with it.

Once you get it spend some time setting up a good profile for yourself. This will create a GOOD deadzone so you don't have to keep your head rigid.

Imagine sitting in an Me 109 as you prepare for take off. You look left and check for aileron deflection. Now right. Check. Fire up your engine and look at the instrument panel to see your revs.

As you take off and attain flying altitude you see them at 2 o'clock. They're about 1000 meters below you. The sun is at your back and has allowed you to catch the B 17s off guard. You roll over to dive on them. All the time keeping your eye on them looking for tell tale signs you,ve been spotted.

Your first pass catches the engine on fire of the lead bomber. They start to scatter as you watch them using the Track IR. Careful, watch the tachometer so you don't burn the engine. Then start to climb for another pass to get another of the remaining bombers.....................

The point is you can watch not just for enemies and allies, but ALSO pretty effectively manage your engine.

Stereoscopic glasses can't do that.

WOW is such a small word and it's effect doesn't last long.
Go for the TIR and have something you can really use and enjoy PAST the WOW factor.


EDIT:
As far as the glasses goes. It's been a LONG LONG time since I've seen them mentioned in THIS forum or at Sim HQ.
If I remember clearly there was problem with them and refresh rates causing headaches. Again it's been a long time and NOT having them mentioned says more about the functionality and value of the glasses for our needs.

blakduk
05-25-2005, 10:37 PM
I havent had the opportunity to use trackIR yet but it looks impressive. As far as stereoscopic glasses go, they dont do much for improving gameplay- they seem more like a gimmick that only serve to give you a headache after a relatively short while. They dont seem to achieve much as far as improving situational awareness or even depth perception.
My advice, dig deep and go for the trackIR, that's what i intend to do.

Sturmtrooper
05-25-2005, 11:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

TIR is :

THE BOMB !

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

It's ALL THAT ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I have TIR (why else would I replying in the affirmative?), and it made me a better pilot.

Okay,well, it increased my situational awareness and THAT made me a better pilot.

There is a slight learning curve that you will overcome.

Turn your head ,look around.

Killer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

IT'S WORTH IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Owlsphone
05-26-2005, 12:32 AM
+1 for TrackIR.

GAU-8
05-26-2005, 01:04 AM
TRACK-IR 3 PRO, with VECTOR.

it is REALLY the only choice.


it will take you a week to get used to. (gunnery wise)

as ive said before to others... why have a hand control your view..when your head, has been doing it all your life...

3D is cool, but it does nothing to make you FEEL THERE, like TRACK-IR does.

John_Stag
05-26-2005, 01:21 AM
TrackIR.

With glasses you'll use them for a while then bung them with all the other junk you bought to "Enhance Your Gaming Experience".

TrackIR, you will NEVER consider removing.

pourshot
05-26-2005, 01:55 AM
TiR http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

T_O_A_D
05-26-2005, 02:55 AM
TIR

I have come to the point that if a game does not support it, I won't play it. except for a few choice First Person shooters, I play at LAN parties.

I like the driving and the flying games, with it.

Hands down TIR!

irR4tiOn4L
05-26-2005, 03:53 AM
thanks all for the responses but can we be a bit more objective? Unless youve used them, you cant talk about their effect.

Although many here have used TrackIR and profess how good it is (it must be a lot more immersive than using the POV hat as a mouse control - though this works well) noone here seems to have even seen what these glasses do, let alone have them. My monitor can do the required refresh rates, and every review of both products gives great praise.

I have seen what stereoscopic effects can do and if these glasses are anything like Imax then i will not hesitate to pick them. Again you cant call these a gimmick when you watch 3d pictures on a 2d screen - you simply cannot imagine the effect. Please does anyone have them here?

madsarmy
05-26-2005, 04:02 AM
TIR http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TooCooL34
05-26-2005, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
thanks all for the responses but can we be a bit more objective? Unless youve used them, you cant talk about their effect.

Although many here have used TrackIR and profess how good it is (it must be a lot more immersive than using the POV hat as a mouse control - though this works well) noone here seems to have even seen what these glasses do, let alone have them. My monitor can do the required refresh rates, and every review of both products gives great praise.

I have seen what stereoscopic effects can do and if these glasses are anything like Imax then i will not hesitate to pick them. Again you cant call these a gimmick when you watch 3d pictures on a 2d screen - you simply cannot imagine the effect. Please does anyone have them here?
Me, I have both.
Tir -> Two Thumbs up
eDimensional Stereo 3D glasses -> piece of s**t

Ok. Effect is impressive but you'll never use it after 3 days trial, be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

irR4tiOn4L
05-26-2005, 04:16 AM
ok cool Toocool! Tell me i know this is a very personal thing but why do you dislike the glasses. I understand well enough what Track IR is like, but i dont know what games with those glasses are like. Is the effect immersive? Why did you stop using them after three days? Is it because they dont make your flying any better really, while Track IR does? What are they like in other games, eg do you use them in single player FPS or racing games?

GAU-8
05-26-2005, 04:38 AM
with the glasses..suppoert is only for NVIDIA..although it MIGHT have changed, just enuff to say "support with ATI graphic cards.

due to shutter effect, whatever refresh rate your monitor is at..is cut in HALF. so you HAVE to run your monitor at 120 for each lens to refresh at 60 ( this was the old way, i heard there is a new driver in works, or allready out to fix, but i cant confirm)

eye strain. you get used to it, but it was like taking off a strong pair of glasses at times.

in IL-2 AEP/PF.. most cases is that you get blurry/fuzzy text, cockpits that are a bit fuzzy, the sunlight problem showing thru cockpit gets worse. some systems and game run fine with them.. nost others have some kind of problem...

i took everything i read with a grain of salt, and bought some....

effect when it worked was great..WHEN it worked.

the salt didnt help.

SidCheshire
05-26-2005, 04:39 AM
Well...do I feel outnumbered http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif, but I will try to be objective.

I haven't tried TIR, but I have got the 3-D specs. I intend using both and will buy TIR when I can afford it, along with some pedals. I went for the glasses first because I can use the hats on the stick. I used them until recently when I swapped monitors after my 6 year old 19" monitor played up. The current temporary monitor won't support the necessary refresh rate, so I get flickering areas on the ground.

However, when using them with the nVidia drivers I use them on IL2 and CoD/UO. Once set up, they do give a totally different perspective. The cockpits go 3d and give a look and feel of seperation to the different objects in the cockpit. I like flying A-20 and Me-110 - these cockpits, for me, become more immersive.

They do take getting used to, but so does anything new that alters views or personal gameplay. The only real drawback is they darken the screen initially, bit like wearing sunglasses, but this can be countered in the settings.

I would like TIR and will get it....one day.

Hope this is of use.

TooCooL34
05-26-2005, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by SidCheshire:
Well...do I feel outnumbered http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif, but I will try to be objective.

I haven't tried TIR, but I have got the 3-D specs. I intend using both and will buy TIR when I can afford it, along with some pedals. I went for the glasses first because I can use the hats on the stick. I used them until recently when I swapped monitors after my 6 year old 19" monitor played up. The current temporary monitor won't support the necessary refresh rate, so I get flickering areas on the ground.

However, when using them with the nVidia drivers I use them on IL2 and CoD/UO. Once set up, they do give a totally different perspective. The cockpits go 3d and give a look and feel of seperation to the different objects in the cockpit. I like flying A-20 and Me-110 - these cockpits, for me, become more immersive.

They do take getting used to, but so does anything new that alters views or personal gameplay. The only real drawback is they darken the screen initially, bit like wearing sunglasses, but this can be countered in the settings.

I would like TIR and will get it....one day.

Hope this is of use.
Wow, you really like blurry screen, good for you. Welcome to blind wannabe club.
I'm sorry I had retired.

F19_Orheim
05-26-2005, 05:00 AM
tir...... A friend of mine has both, the glasses he put away after 2 weeks, bit TIR,, well if you get it you won't be ale to fly without it after awhile, so much better is the SA for you

SidCheshire
05-26-2005, 05:02 AM
Who said anything about a blurry screen?
Once set up and configured, the blurry screen goes.

irR4tiOn4L
05-26-2005, 05:04 AM
toocool did you stop using them only because they made cockpits blurry in IL-2? Also it should be noted that the only reason they only support Nividia is because ATI has said it cant be bothered making stereoscopic drivers - i should note that i bought my 6800 partly because i would be able to get stereoscopic glasses.

I can get my monitor to run at 1024x768 at 100hz. or 1000x750 at 120hz. I havent tried powerstrip to truly boost this as high as it will go. What refresh rates do your old/new monitor run the effect at SidCheshire and what would you recommend? Although my system can go far higher than 1024, i mainly play at this resolution on my 19 inch. Will these refresh rates be enough for a relatively smooth image?

Also i play a lot of games other than IL-2 - games where there are far more objects in the foreground as opposed to distant planes and ground - what are the glasses like there?

I of course havent given up on Track IR by any length, but i have found out enough about it to have a fairly good idea - these i dont.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
05-26-2005, 05:12 AM
im flying for 3+ years now and im about to buy a TIR3 unit because i hear so much good stuff about it
im using my stick HAT for years and my SA is pretty good
the question i have is, should i buy the vector expansion, is it worth the extra money and do i benefit from it with FB/PF?
so Tir3+vector=TIR3pro am i right?

thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TooCooL34
05-26-2005, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
toocool did you stop using them only because they made cockpits blurry in IL-2? Also it should be noted that the only reason they only support Nividia is because ATI has said it cant be bothered making stereoscopic drivers - i should note that i bought my 6800 partly because i would be able to get stereoscopic glasses.

I can get my monitor to run at 1024x768 at 100hz. or 1000x750 at 120hz. I havent tried powerstrip to truly boost this as high as it will go. What refresh rates do your old/new monitor run the effect at SidCheshire and what would you recommend? Although my system can go far higher than 1024, i mainly play at this resolution on my 19 inch. Will these refresh rates be enough for a relatively smooth image?

Also i play a lot of games other than IL-2 - games where there are far more objects in the foreground as opposed to distant planes and ground - what are the glasses like there?

I of course havent given up on Track IR by any length, but i have found out enough about it to have a fairly good idea - these i dont.
Cockpit is ok. It's wonderfuly 3D.
Gunsight crash pad looks like it would bump into my head!
Environments are truly out there behind cockpit frame. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But every distant or small objects are not very clear and it eventually degrade your flying and gives headache.

One more, since you sometimes gotta glance forward with Tir, using 3D glasses with Tir is not a good idea since the glass can't cover your whole field of vision. (thou Tir can be figured move fast but I won't recommend it)


There's always a good reason when most people recommend something. Just buy right thing. You can buy another later if you really want it.

irR4tiOn4L
05-26-2005, 06:00 AM
yes toocool people do choose something for a good reason but then often the best things are neglected by most too. I am concerned because shelling out 200 bucks for mostly flight and maybe some racing sims is a lot - i play a lot of other games too, and am thinking that maybe id prefer the 3d effect.

Id love both, but whats this your saying about this not being a good idea - do the glasses block vision too much? Bummer. If you could use both, would you?

By the way, are you sure youve set the effect up optimally if distant objects are blurry? What refresh rate did you use it on too?

and finally again, what are they like in other games?

BTW im confused as to who makes Track IR - ive seen it on both the natural point and e dimensional websites.

SidCheshire
05-26-2005, 06:01 AM
Refresh rate on the current 17" monitor won't go above 85, so isn't particularly suited as ideally the glasses perform at at least 100.

Refresh rate on the 19" monitor at 1024 x 768 was 100 or 120. Both of these worked fine.
I didn't suffer with headaches and usually played for a couple of hours including comfort breaks...

I used them on Call of Duty fps - made the weapons and vehicles come right out of the screen. The objects and scenery also become 3d, how much is user defined because you can set the distance depth. However, the further back I set the effect, the more the system has to work. I also lost the crosshair, but there is one available to use with the glasses.

irR4tiOn4L
05-26-2005, 06:06 AM
excellent so at least my refresh rate is fine.

SidCheshire when you were using them, did you play more often with them on or off, and did they prove so beneficial to gameplay that immersion sufferred without them?

Problem with most reviews is that they dont say whether their attraction lasted..

SeaFireLIV
05-26-2005, 06:12 AM
I know you won`t listen to us if we haven`t tried the 3D glasses, but consider this.

The 3D glasses JUST add immersion.

The TIR adds IMMERSION and a PRACTICAL USEFULNESS. You can even use track IR for other games. I used it in UT2004 to drive and look around in (perfect) - although it`s difficult to control when on foot.

I guarantee that TIR will still be useful to you a year later. The 3D glasses, I doubt it.

SidCheshire
05-26-2005, 06:25 AM
Seafire is right in that the glasses add immersion and, IMHO, are a way of enhancing the game. I would not say that they were essential for immersion whereas, as most have said from experience, TIR has a practical use. The glasses will not give you any advantage, but will add eye-candy.

I tended to use them offline mostly and would use them 50 - 50 as I found that I was paying more attention to the eye-candy than what was actually going on.

If you want something that provides impressive eye-candy, then the glasses are fine. If you want something that is practical and can give some practical help in finding and keeping those enemy a/c, then the TIR is the one. Bear in mind I haven't used it, but many others have.

I have used the glasses with an nVidia FX5600 with both WinME and XP using the 71.84 and previous driver versions.

TooCooL34
05-26-2005, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by SidCheshire:
Refresh rate on the current 17" monitor won't go above 85, so isn't particularly suited as ideally the glasses perform at at least 100.

Refresh rate on the 19" monitor at 1024 x 768 was 100 or 120. Both of these worked fine.
I didn't suffer with headaches and usually played for a couple of hours including comfort breaks...

I used them on Call of Duty fps - made the weapons and vehicles come right out of the screen. The objects and scenery also become 3d, how much is user defined because you can set the distance depth. However, the further back I set the effect, the more the system has to work. I also lost the crosshair, but there is one available to use with the glasses
If it's running perfectly with 'setting' you said, why even you lost your crosshair? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

No,irR4tiOn4L,I won't use them both.

SidCheshire
05-26-2005, 06:40 AM
Games have been graded by Nvidia for how they run with their 3d effect drivers. IL2 has a 5, the highest, whereas CoD has a 0. The loss of the crosshair is probably one of those things that happens when running a game that doesn't fully support 3d viewing. The effect was fine and a crosshair was available, so no loss of gameplay.

knightflyte
05-26-2005, 10:40 AM
I've been on these forums for about ..... well since Dec 8, 2002 ....
We're a pretty good community that keeps abreast of ANYTHING that can enhance our experience in the sim. If the glasses were something that made the IL2/FB/PF experience BETTER it would be known by us here.
Do a quick search and find how many posts are made concerning the glasses. My feeling is if they were that good the community would know about it. And if it WAS good it would be heralded across the forum.

They could be great and, even tho you get a 3D effect.... do you get DEPTH PERCEPTION? (That's something very hard to portray in a game, and would be a GREAT benifit to any gaming in general)

If you are interested in using it for other games you should have said so in your post. You didn't.

Good luck with either choice........... I still vote for Track IR, and believe you will not be dissappointed with it.

If you do get the glasses it would be great if you posted some sort of review.

BaldieJr
05-26-2005, 10:54 AM
Get on e-bay and buy a pair of anaglyph glasses for $4. Nvidia cards will do anaglyph 3d easily so your total investment will be the cost of the glasses.

You'll play with it for a week and realize that 3d is a waste of time and money.

Then you'll order TiR (as everyone here has suggested) and be pleased.

If you want to save yourself $4 and lost time, just don't bother and buy TiR.

Rook_336
05-26-2005, 03:21 PM
Wow... I find it interesting that so many ppl have opinions against stereo glasses when they actually haven't tried them... real informed there, lol

I happen to have both a TIR 3 Pro and e-Dimensional glasses running off just an AMD 2400 with 1 Gb ram and a GeForce 6800 GT. The 3D effect is great and when you combine with TIR it's probably the closest to a home VR system on the cheap.

The frame loss is only about 25 % (don't ask me how, those driver programmers are pretty smart I guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and I only use it for offline play because I need every single FPS when I'm online.

That being said I recommend TIR over the glasses if you're only getting one of these accessories. The reason WHY these glasses aren't as popular is that they are far more difficult to get setup and working comfortably than TIR and that a good percentage of players cannot see well through the glasses for medical reasons (the way their eyes interpret stereo images). I suspect this is also why people bash them so much. They work fine for me, here are some images I recorded in 3D anaglyph mode (the e-Dimensional images are much cleaner, clear text and gunsight, and in better color, obviously). Whip out your red/blue 3D glasses and have a look at these images:

http://www.devil-dawgs.com/Temp/il2fb01_50.jpg

http://www.devil-dawgs.com/Temp/il2fb03_50.jpg

http://www.devil-dawgs.com/Temp/il2fb06_3.jpg

http://www.devil-dawgs.com/Temp/il2fb06_50.jpg

http://www.devil-dawgs.com/Temp/il2fb07_4.jpg

So to you naysayers, believe what you need to believe to sleep at night, but I can play this game fine in stereo 3d.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

brimigus
05-26-2005, 03:35 PM
I've got both, and the problem with the 3d is the bright light produces a head spliiting stobe effect.Play the game on a dark doom level or quake map and it's sweet.Oh and anything that moves has a ghost blur for some reason.real hard to hit planes but the cockpits look great,very 3d

Wilburnator
05-26-2005, 05:45 PM
I have TIR3 and the glasses... love the TIR, hate the glasses. I bought them 2 years or so ago, and they weren't hard to set up at all. They did however degrade picture quality and kill frame rate, as well as make any game much more difficult to play. After a couple of hours of trying various games and saying "neato" here and there, I stuck them in a drawer were they still sit. In my opinion they are a novelty that will hold your interest only very briefly, and then you'll regret spending the money on them. I sure did.

knightflyte
05-26-2005, 08:18 PM
A 25% frame loss is HUGE!


There, I can sleep now :P

Bearcat99
05-26-2005, 11:11 PM
TIR without a doubt.

B16Enk
05-27-2005, 01:57 AM
I bought the TiR and E3D spec package deal a while back.

The glasses were impressive when coupled to my old nVidia Ti4200, refresh sucked at the time so I upgraded my monitor, adding to the cost yet again!

New monitor has 3 brightness levels applied by presses of a button, solved the darkness issue nicely.

Then I upgraded to an ATI 9800XT, and that was the last time I had the glasses working with IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TiR is in constant use, the glasses are now gathering dust. Upgraded TiR to V2 son now has my V1.

Note:
3D glasses will not work with a flat screen monitor, as CRT manufacture is now being ramped down it will be interesting to see what Edimensional do with prices etc.

JunkoIfurita
05-27-2005, 02:27 AM
I don't have the eDimensional Stero3D glasses, but I did have their 'force feedback' headphones for a while.

A while being the week and a half for the 'Rumble' function to stop working (a function I was lax to use because it introduced an annoying high-pitched hum into the speakers anyway), then another 3 weeks for the headphones to give up the ghost and die altogether.

So I went a did a little research - and you should see the number of people who've had similar problems with eDimensional products! The headphones rarely last more than a month, and barely anyone can stand to use the glasses. Those that can found them very easy to break (bump them on the desk when putting them down and you'll snap some wiring).

I can only come to the conclusion that eDimensional produces utter, utter junk hyped up to 'improve the gaming experience'

Track IR, on the other hand, is produced by Natural Point (eDimensional was marketing for them at the start). I don't have a unit (yet), but the number of satisfied simmers on this forum alone should mean something, right?

----

RAAF_Edin
05-27-2005, 04:25 AM
Definitely TrackIR http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I have one and love it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Kannaksen_hanu
05-27-2005, 05:55 AM
My buddy has those glasses, and we've tried several times to to get it work satisfactory. We havent been able to do so.

When the gunsight is ok, the cockpit bars are out-of-sync. When cockpit is in sync, outside views and gunsight are off. If icons are on the plane is far far away, but texts are hovering on screen surface. It is impossible to make the difference between two planes if they are close together. Also all sorts of "fake-3d" effects reveal themselves. For example I-185 cockpit looks really good normally, but with glasses some gauges are just painted cardboard pieces.

TIR was much better investment. And 6DOF too. Although IL-2 doesnt support it fully, the trackhat mode makes it even more accurate.

DarkBlueMan
05-27-2005, 06:03 AM
I have both products and never really got the best results from the LCD glasses. When I did get them to work the results were pretty good but in order to get a decent refresh rate I had to lower the screen resolution considerably to reduce the flicker.

Overall I think they are more trouble than they are worth and as most have said already, TIR is a better investment.

Technology needs to develop more if we are to be able to get good stereo vision.

womenfly
05-27-2005, 06:14 AM
<span class="ev_code_PINK">the envelope please .... the winner is ... TrackIR3 Pro! </span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

My TrackIR3 was the best hardware I purchased for flight sim's ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif it ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif it ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif it!

P.S. Buy the Vector Expansion too if you can, makes a difference.

Gadje
05-27-2005, 06:43 AM
I have both.

I originally bought the edimentional glasses when I had an ATI card and although the company said otherwise...they simply do not work with those graphics cards.

When I upgraded I chose a 6800GT mainly because of the glasses.

After about a week of tweaking I got them to work ok....well justabout. However.

They only work in perfect mode. Many ground objects, runways, buildings, some trees appear to float off the ground.....which looks really cr*p.

You cannot change this by tweaking, as it happened in an earlier FB patch. I read this somewhere on edimensionals forum.

Inside some of the cockpits the look is amazing when you get it right. Looking through the F2F2 telescopic gunsight is quite stunning and the layers of depth are worth seeing.

Some cockpits dont work so well. You get ugly ghosting on parts of the cockpit, particularly the instruments.

But in this game the 3d effect only really works on the cockpit. Outside(apart from the floating objects!) everything any distance away remains flat.

Its a wee bit like being in a real 3d cockpit with a projection screen just in front of you showing everything else 2D.
Even getting up close to big bombers they still look flat.

But the worst thing for me apart from the hellish eyestrain, was playability. I just didn't want to actually fly a mission with them on as it made it less real and involving, not more. In an arcade sense it is worth a try and most people seeing their favourite rides pit in 3d would go.... wow!. But I did not find it playable.

Thats why I reckon like most of the people here who have these glasses they lie, like mine in a box gathering dust.

Trackkir on the otherhand is the most amazing thing I have ever bought for gaming. To the point that 3D glasses negated my immersion in flying IL2 the reverse is true for Trackir.

It is brilliant. Get it.

By all means try 3D Glasses you will probally enjoy them for a while. But when you get Trackir you will wonder how you ever played this sim without it.

WFLZ
05-27-2005, 07:35 AM
I haven't tried the glasses but I'll say this about my Track IR. The effect on my simming would be the same if my Track IR or my Joystick broke. They are both essential, and I won't play a flight sim that doesn't support Track IR.

jamesdietz
05-27-2005, 10:28 AM
Track IR4 no contest- simply wonderful!

irR4tiOn4L
05-27-2005, 11:40 AM
I listen to everyone of course and it hasnt got past me how many love and use TrackIR here. The problems mentioned with the stereoscopic glasses i have also noted.

About the 25% frame rate hit - thats because its rendering the scene twice - my comp is fast enough though.

It seems to me, talking specifically about the glasses, that they dont work very well with IL-2 and are a personal thing. TrackIR in comparison gives you a great advantage.

Thing is, im not after advantage or improving my flying (more and more that POV hat mouse is proving very good). Im after something that will add to my games a layer of believability - TrackIR does this for sims, but the glasses do for many other games too.

The main reason why i keep arguing for them is because i have seen the stereoscopic effect at Imax about 3 years ago, was totally blown away and instantly wanted the effect in games. Ive read in a few reviews that the glasses are better than the Imax effect.

If anyone has seen those Imax 3d movies (stereoscopic not the anaglyph red and green ones) - are these glasses as good or better than that? (not necessarily just in IL-2 but other games such as Doom3, silent hunter III and other games)

If they are, well i still want both trackIR and the glasses, but considering how long ive waited for them and the quality of the effect, id start with the glasses.

If the effect isnt as good as Imax, and is significantly worse, then a few years wait for stereoscopic effects is in order - Track IR is fantastic now.

Frankly i fully agree that this community would have picked them out if they added so much to the game - the only problem is that a flight sim - with tiny objects far away and only the cockpit in the foreground - isnt suited to showing off depth perception - the imperfect effect in IL-2 only worsens this. What i need to know is if the effect is much better in other games.

PS Since when is Track IR 4 out??

also, to some previous poster, the glasses are specifically meant to give you depth perception - thats why you cant know what they are like untill youve tried them - try imagine what the flat output on the monitor would be like with depth .

TooCooL34
05-27-2005, 01:19 PM
irR4tiOn4L,
Why you keep asking again and again when you have your own thoery, preference and conclusion?? Are you enjoying it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif (like pov hat, 3D effect e.g. )

That two things are not that very expensive. Just try them yourself and let me know whether you're satisfied or not. You actually don't want to listen to our opinions it seems.


If the effect isnt as good as Imax, and is significantly worse, then a few years wait for stereoscopic effects is in order - Track IR is fantastic now.
Yes, they're far worse. Just wait for new technology stereoscopic effects.
This is my last visit to this thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

irR4tiOn4L
05-28-2005, 07:54 AM
thanks toocool i was trying to get an answer which i could ground in my own experiences - though i still dont know what they are like in other games, it seems that they are not yet as good as they could be.

So i think ill go for TrackIR instead. Thanks all!

SeaFireLIV
05-28-2005, 08:40 AM
Hahaa! At last! I was begining to think that after all the yeas he was never going to be convinced.

But, to be honest, it`s a little bit of a mistake to expect rounded view of opinions here, this is a flight sim. For immersion and use TIR can`t be beat - You`ll always get the same answer here. You really should try several games forum to see how well those 3D glasses are received.

But you`ve made the right long-term choice with TIR anyway! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

knightflyte
05-28-2005, 09:58 AM
We have him now.......

Soon he'll be brainwashed and forget all about those glasses. THEN we can introduce him to the secret order of Track IR.

We'll have a banquet dinner with induction ceremony where irR4tiOn4L will learn the secret handshake. From then on he'll be known as Darth irR4tiOn4L.

After all "HE IS THE CHOSEN ONE"

Come learn the dark side of the force, where you will experience a power far stronger than you could ever imagine.

(Can you tell what I saw yesterday?)

Airmail109
05-28-2005, 02:21 PM
I need to get myself a CheatIR 3 pro set, with 6DOF....after i got myself a new pc though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif......in september http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif (bloody ATI decided to delay the release of the R520....Grrrrrrrrr http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif)

stpierce9538
06-24-2005, 09:00 AM
I have both units and use them together. Seems to me alot of people just give their opinions of what they think the glasses are like. Probably never used or even seen a pair. Glasses are very immersive when setup properly and work great. I use them all the time with FS2004. Never had any eyestrain issues or headaches (probably goes back to being setup properly). There are adjustments for 3D depth and convergence. If 3D seperation is set too high it will cause blurriness so each game has to be setup differently. Buying either will give enjoyment. Used together (track ir and 3D glasses)gives the highest immersion factor. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LStarosta
06-24-2005, 09:09 AM
Well, it all depends.

Do you look dorkier in a huge a$s pair of glasses, or a weird as$ baseball hat with a huge ball on the bill.

kokillar
08-02-2005, 10:23 PM
Heya guys,

This is my first time posting here, I've never took part in the UBI communities (I got an account because of Brothers in Arms, an amazing authentic WW2 experience), but this thread caught my interest.

I am now getting into IL2:FB/AEP, it is my first time getting into a flight sim (I used to be a pure FPS fan, I currently play COD:UO (I believe this is the best ww2 fps), BF2, and America's Army.

I am hoping to get a copy of Pacific Fighters soon, so I can get in the online action. It seems like nobody in all of Canada stocks it in their retail or online stores. I think I will end up buying it from gamestop or amazon.ca, whichever has cheaper shipping.
Anyways, enough about myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have not tried Track IR, but from what I've heard it sounds like something I might end up buying if I really get into flight sims.

But I have tried the same kind of stereoscopic 3d glasses (wired) that eDimensional offers. It was a few years back, so technology should be better since then.
When I set them up with Nvidias stereoscopic drivers (I do not remember the driver version), I loaded up that Nvidia test/demo thing. It had an nVidia logo jump out of the screen, and completely amazed me. It looked so **** good I wanted to hold that logo in my hands.

At the time, I was playing FPSes like Soldier of Fortune, BF1942 and MOH:AA. Things didn't jump out of screen in these games, but rest assured there was an amazing amount of depth perception. Sometimes I just stood or walked around marveling at the eye-candy, and would eventually get shot from being distracted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I ran those games at 1280x1024, my CRT set at 100 hertz. I was running a Geforce 4 MX 440 at the time, all those game's setting were at the max.
In Soldier of Fortune, in the first level where you go down the subway with the shotgun, the immersion was high and it looked like I was actually there.

The only thing is, the drivers support for games is not high, and you'll find many that look weird or don't even work with it.

The other problem is refresh rates. I only could only get up 100 on my old CRT (I use an LCD monitor now, and those glasses don't support LCD, although I do know the new versions do. However, I am unsure of the refresh rates on an LCD, mine only goes up to 75 at 1280x1024.

The effect of the glasses simply blew me away, but eventually I stopped using them and they turned into dust collectors. Although the effect was great, they didn't have any impact on my efficiency in games, but made it more realistic. At times it could be so distracting that I would watch the game in awe.
The problem was the glasses were bulky, and sometimes it felt more comfortable and I performed much better in games when playing without them. I never suffured from headaches and such, but I did take breaks for comfort and to relax my eyes. I had the set up the seperation perfectly for each game, if only I could get a higher refresh rate to reduce eye strain. The other reason they turned into dust collectors is because of my move to LCD, and I don't feel like shelling out more $$ for another pair.

IMHO, I would use the money and upgrade your system, and when you can really can't make any major upgrades, and you have some money to burn, consider giving the glasses a try. Everyone has a different experience with them, and you will only know yours once you try them. However, they only add immersivness and depth in your game to make it more believable, it will not give an edge over other gamers or give you an advantage.

As for the Audio FX headset, I got my pair from Tigerdirect.ca 6 months ago. I am still using them for all my gaming, and I honestly think they are amazing. The rumble effect can be very subtle or very strong, you can change it to your tastes. It really does kick for explosions, and I can feel everyshot I take in COD:UO, as if I was feeling recoil. I can also feel the blast of a grenade in the distance, or the silent rumbling of AA guns. For me, the only thing I've heard that may be better than this headset is the Steelsound (https://www.steelpad.com/Default.asp) or those 6 channel headphones with built-in mini speakers.

If you are looking for something to give you an edge in FPS gaming, consider the Logitech MX518. It is amazingly accurate and fast. Switching DPI settings on the fly is also useful, from the low DPI for sniping (around 400), the mid DPI for rifling (around 800), and the high DPI for machine gunning (around 1600).

I hope this information is useful, and sorry for the long post. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

B16Enk
08-03-2005, 01:24 AM
I hope this information is useful, and sorry for the long post.


Nice first post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Welcome to the community, your Xfire profile ain't going to change much as you get into FB/PF (unless you use Xfire to join PF servers) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Taylortony
08-03-2005, 01:41 AM
I have a normal pair of the Olympus glasses that are equivalent to a 52 inch screen feet away and to be honest they are cool for a bit but really I would say got track IR

My glasses although used to watch films on sfter a while strain your eyes, even the blurb says remove them every 15 mins to refocuse your eyes.... would hate to think what they are like in game.. will have to try em sometime though.

NP_Jason
08-03-2005, 03:21 PM
I know I am a bit biased, but if you want an immersive flight-sim experience then TrackIR is the way to go. I've heard lots of complaints about ED's glasses, but haven't tried them myself. I still think TrackIR is a must have for any flight-simmer. Plus the TrackIR 3 or 3 Pro will last you a long time and you won't ever shelve it. Unless of course we come up with a better one ;-)

Great thread and glad to see so many positive comments on the TrackIR.

BTW the TrackIR is entirely manufactured by NaturalPoint. E-Dimensional is simply a distributor of ours that used the TrackIR trademarked name improperly at times in the past.

http://www.trackir.com

:-)

Jason Williams
TrackIR Product Manager