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View Full Version : Are you expecting too much from SOW?



Feathered_IV
10-23-2009, 04:55 AM
With the first glimpse of in-game views of Storm of War promised today, I wonder what the reaction of the community will be. Will it match up to five years of expectation?

Some extraordinary things have been predicted for Storm of War. Many times it has been said in many different ways, when SOW gets here it will be the answer to everything we ever wanted. All the most wished-for features will be there. Everything will fall into place. You just wait. SoW will fix everything...

But will it?

I wonder if many of us have built the next Maddox sim up in our minds so much that we'll set ourselves up for disappointment. It won't be the fault of Oleg Maddox. Lord knows he's made few promises and even fewer guarantees. It just seems that unless there is a real spitfire in every box, some people are just going to feel betrayed.

War clouds are gathering. The Storm of Whining is almost upon us.

Are you expecting too much from SoW?

Fehler
10-23-2009, 05:01 AM
I hope SOW comes with a juicer...

Mine broke the other day.

BaronUnderpants
10-23-2009, 05:17 AM
Everyone is, but thats only natural after such a long wait.

Judging from the recuest threadh over at banana forum some people dont seem to have any restrictions what so ever when it comes to "i wish". But once the "dissepointments" settles down it will be the best out there (i hope http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif) If Oleg manages to include even 1/3 of what everyone combined wish for it would be a miracle.

It will be a anticlimax of biblical proportions either way (again, because of the long wait).

That will proppably change as SoW evolves over the comming years however.

Feathered_IV
10-23-2009, 05:33 AM
Oleg just posted the update. Go get em chaps! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mmitch10
10-23-2009, 05:53 AM
I'm hoping for a flight sim with good FMs and DMs, and a better offline campaign than IL2. If I get that I'll be happy.

Some people have suggested that it may become some sort of combined arms "super-sim", where you can jump out of your U-boat, ride a tank to the airfield and fly off to bomb Portsmouth. I guess that would be nice, but I only want to fly.

Skoshi Tiger
10-23-2009, 06:00 AM
I want a sim that lets you go into third person and spend a couple of hours waxing and polishing your aircraft to get those few extra knots out of her! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
10-23-2009, 06:10 AM
No we aren't. Oleg has told us himself how much will be in SOW already.

RSS-Martin
10-23-2009, 06:18 AM
Well since I am waiting for the Pacific theatre, my expectations are not extra high, as I assume I will have to wait yet a few years.
BoB I will take along if it is so like with IL2 that you have to merge the various versions.
Otherwise BoB is not so high on my wish list.
Other areas I am more curious about. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/bag.gif http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/mimose.gif

Manu-6S
10-23-2009, 06:20 AM
Interesting news...

NO MORE OPENGL

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Bearcat99
10-23-2009, 07:46 AM
I am expectng a good flight sim... one with great graphics, great FM/DM, high scalability across the board.. from the look to the flying.. I am expecting a sim that will look as good as IL2 on perfect in the lower to midrange settings .... I am expecting a sim that will be able to benefit from hardware upgrades over the next decade.. (Like IL2) and I have no doubt whatsoever that I will not be disappointed at all.

DKoor
10-23-2009, 07:49 AM
I'm expecting to live to see it.

Haha... 5k posts... not just every day anniversary http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif.

AndyJWest
10-23-2009, 09:02 AM
Haha... 5k posts... not just every day anniversary .




Sorry DKoor, 5k is 5120, as every good computer geek will tell you (the awkward ones will say that it is actually 0x1400) congrats anyway, what took you so long...

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 09:10 AM
i'm expecting it to play at more than 12fps, but i wonder if it will, lol

doraemil
10-24-2009, 02:21 PM
It's funny, planset expectations is going to be an epic fail for some.

And that expectation can color someone's review of the sim, EVEN though Battle of Britain was announced ages ago.


BOW SOW can be the next best thing to flight combat sims since sliced bread was for sammiches, might be able to pwnage MSFX in joy riding, but since that fav new best plane isn't in there.


As for expecting too much in regards to features and the game? I am in fact. It's hard to top IL-2 1946. But the graphics look promising.

As long as the FM are accurate (from historical documents, expert / actual crew testimonies, engineering tests n stats, and comparisons)

the sounds are realistic,

gunnery physics are improved (but I like them alread).

Well the AI is difficult to do, so I won't cry too much if AI sniper gunners and fruit loops aerobatic liberal alien FM for AI fighters is in SOW.

Actually I'm looking forward for BOB theater. I like the Me-109 and Spitfires so I'm happy. No Chaika, of course I'll be bummed. Maybe a Fairey biplane might aleviate that.

But I can feel for those whose favorites are American, Japanese, or VVS planes. Maybe wait a year or two. WOW. That's pretty harsh. Hard times.

M_Gunz
10-24-2009, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
The Storm of Whining is almost upon us.

Are you expecting too much from SoW?

Some->many people have expected more from IL2 than it is still possible to run on the best PC you can get or build.
Literally they expect everything to work as reality and make all kinds of claims as to how the game engine works
based on real world causes then used those abstractions to prove IL2 wrong -- and that's been posted since 2002.

Oleg stated since the start the goal of major performance numbers (top speed, best climb) in IL2 within 5% yet
people still come up with "it was accurate before and then it changed and is still accurate, how can that be?".
Simple, neither is perfect to begin with.
It is possible to match chosen charts to within 1% but only by sacrificing much of what isn't on those charts.
You want to fly on rails then go play CFS and rejoice in your chartdom, you can even make planes to match your
charts or get someone else to.

So from what I've seen the Storm of Whining began in early 2002 and only cooled down when changes were not to be
forthcoming. The big action is where? Over at AAA, revis, errr, mod-central.

It will hot up here again when SoW is released be sure! I am ready to see how gravity isn't modeled all over again
and how engine power isn't mechanical energy, all that good stuff.

Choctaw111
10-24-2009, 04:07 PM
Everything I have seen or read has exceeded my expectations and I think I will be blown away upon release.

horseback
10-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Haha... 5k posts... not just every day anniversary .

Sorry DKoor, 5k is 5120, as every good computer geek will tell you (the awkward ones will say that it is actually 0x1400) congrats anyway, what took you so long... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, Andy, but 5k is still 5000 and has been long before geekspeak; the computer number was a shorthand approximation, not the original.

We were using 5K resistors long before the bits and bytes were enumerated.

Congrats, DKoor.

cheers

horseback

PS: A lot of us oldtimers lost a thousand or more off our post counts back about 3-4 years ago, so you may have passed the 7 or 8k point by now.

Airmail109
10-24-2009, 05:31 PM
Graphics are crap even for an alpha.

Bearcat99
10-24-2009, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by doraemil:
It's funny, planset expectations is going to be an epic fail for some.


I don't see why... we have a good idea what it will be.. and if after all this time and all the info we have received people still dont get it then that's on them.

Frankthetank36
10-24-2009, 06:42 PM
So is this going to be part of the IL2 series like Pacific Fighters was or is it going to be an entirely separate sim?

x6BL_Brando
10-24-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So is this going to be part of the IL2 series like Pacific Fighters was or is it going to be an entirely separate sim?

All new.

Chivas
10-24-2009, 07:05 PM
I know I was expecting more than what I seen in those fantasy island terrain shots. Definitely not as cinematic as Oleg suggested it would be. At the same time I doubted he would be able to make the sim cinematic with all the other features robbing cpu cycles.

I'm hoping things will get better when we start seeing BOB terrain. Its early yet so there will be steady improvement, but probably not cinematic.

Feathered_IV
10-24-2009, 07:09 PM
I expect to be greatly dissapointed by unconvincing speech packs and a shallow, soulless single player experience with little sense of achievement or reward. Luthier said he has been put in charge of SP. He was the one who championed the idea of abandoning your aircraft to run to an anti-aircraft position. I sincerely hope his tastes have matured since then.

Waldo.Pepper
10-24-2009, 07:18 PM
I am not blown away. So far I think I have basically seen Il-2 on steroids. Weak steroids as well. I hope I get blown away about SOW one day but so far I am not.

We know little or nothing about -

System requirements.
Game play.
Campaigns.
Upgrade/update policy.
Weather.
Radar.
Damage Model. (refined from Il-2 but what else?)
Flight Model. (refined from Il-2 but what else?)

I could go on and or. A small thing that bugs me is that I don't recall ever seeing a person rendered. The world is still depressingly sterile. Great if you want to see what a cross of I am Legend and BOB would look like, but not if you want to see reality. I would like a pilot modeled, not just a cockpit. (Or at least a toggle-able option for one.)

ElAurens
10-24-2009, 07:18 PM
I am often accused of being a pessimist, but you guys make me look like Mother Teresa.

Wow, such angst over a few screenshots.

It's no wonder Oleg is so tight lipped.

If he showed a fully functional 3D holographic sim that would run on a cell phone and get 20 gabillion fps, you lot would complain about the battery life.

Honestly.

Do you really think that Oleg is going to show all his cards at this stage of development?

Get real.

Frankthetank36
10-24-2009, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So is this going to be part of the IL2 series like Pacific Fighters was or is it going to be an entirely separate sim?

All new. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meh... Just got IL2 a couple of months ago for like $10 and something's already replacing it >:/

I want time to enjoy the two-hundred-something planes in 1946, would've been nice to just see updated graphics and new maps and planes and campaigns and stuff.

ImMoreBetter
10-24-2009, 07:29 PM
I am not expecting too much from SoW.

Because I know that imagination can be a dangerous thing.

WTE_Ibis
10-24-2009, 08:05 PM
All new.[/QUOTE]

Meh... Just got IL2 a couple of months ago for like $10 and something's already replacing it >:/

I want time to enjoy the two-hundred-something planes in 1946, would've been nice to just see updated graphics and new maps and planes and campaigns and stuff.[/QUOTE]
==============================================


You should have bought it five or six years ago. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


.

LEBillfish
10-24-2009, 08:18 PM
Personally, after so long I have no interest at all....

Not all that excited about the scenario, it frankly a very small (though not unimportant) piece of a very large war....and frankly am not expecting much from the sim itself....

Lets be honest, we're sitting at a PC, there is only so much software behind a small screen can do to really affect you. As I said in another thread, screen shots mean nothing to me in that if we bumped the pix/inch up in this sim we'd have the same visuals. Now they may make the DM more intense (as in more hit boxes and effects) may make the FM more difficult, on and on, yet it's still a sim flying the same missions we are today with more candy.

Lastly.....You can't tell me that after so long that PC's, software, coding and so on haven't evolved.....Yet you also can't tell me 1c scrapped all their old work for new to catch up.

Though I may be totally wrong, it really doesn't matter.......after so long I just don't care.

It will take a lot to get me excited about it.

K2

Fehler
10-25-2009, 02:49 AM
I think everyone is missing the point here...

SOW is supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of IL2 in areas you cannot depict in pictures... FM/DM

What did IL2 do to revolutionize the genre? Yeah, it looks great compared to other Brand X combat flight sims of it's day. But what is really spectacular is the WAY these planes fly and how the hit bubbles of other (not going to say the name of the game *Cough* CFS *Cough*) simulators were of the day.

Actually, the graphics are nice, but obviously that's all that can be depicted in a picture.

Real complex engine management, real damage of individual systems on board an aircraft, better "feeling" of flight. THIS is what the SOW engine is supposed to be about. And because it has taken Oleg so much time developing these things, I am CERTAIN we will be amazed at the complexity of the game when we finally get it.

If all you folks are looking at is the pictures, well hell... anyone can make a nice mesh with lots of polygons... ANd you certainly dont need a new game engine to do that!

But Oleg is special because he not only an artist, but an aeronautical engineer and pilot as well. (His English is getting better too! - damn, this man is talented!)

I suspect... no, I expect... to "see" these wonderful additions in his new game engine.

ANd logical is on my side:
What was the top line computer 8 years ago? That's what Oleg had to build his game engine. Now look at the raw computing power of machines today in comparison!

Look at the lessons Oleg has learned in optimizing the net code. Remember when it was only possible to have 16 players in a co-op game? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I remember when the whole world was on dial-up when IL2 first came out. Now the whole world has broadband or fiber optics!

Yes, Oleg has learned a great deal, and hardware capabilities have grown in geometric proportions as well! We will see evidence of this with the new engine. (Or he would not have needed to build a completely new engine to start with!)

So.... stop looking at pictures, and start thinking outside the box (or screen).

Just like IL2 was to all other combat flight games, SOW will be to IL2.. Revolutionary and far ahead of it's time!

(The preceding was a non-paid service announcement from the creators of Storm of War)

Not really... Hahah!

But otherwise, I stand by my expectations...

TooCooL34
10-25-2009, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:

Real complex engine management, real damage of individual systems on board an aircraft, better "feeling" of flight. THIS is what the SOW engine is supposed to be about.
In that regard, we need actual flight video of SOW!!! Just 1 min would be okay. We would playback the video again and again for 1 month anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Screenshots only won't calm down these trivial debate.

Fehler
10-25-2009, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fehler:

Real complex engine management, real damage of individual systems on board an aircraft, better "feeling" of flight. THIS is what the SOW engine is supposed to be about.
In that regard, we need actual flight video of SOW!!! Just 1 min would be okay. We would playback the video again and again for 1 month anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Screenshots only won't calm down these trivial debate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep! And that is the only thing I was disappointed in with Oleg's "sneak peek". I was really hoping to see some substance. Pictures are cool, but I want to see features.

But I know they will be there. A leopard cant change his spots, and Oleg wont change his either. The graphics are secondary to realism for him.

Farran1966
10-25-2009, 03:44 AM
Well said Fehler!

Some people are too quick to point the finger to criticize, lets wait and see what the man, who has created the best combat flight simulator ever, has up his sleeve.

And unless any of those who say it's not this or it don't look that can do any better, then put up or shut up!

CrazySchmidt
10-25-2009, 03:52 AM
It will be many times better than IL-2 by a considerable margin. IL-2 mods will not measure up at all.

Modders will turn to SoW just as quickly as it takes to learn the new development tools, skinners, map builders and 3D modellers will all be rushing to contribute their own particular skill set to the latest and greatest addition to this fantastic sim. All the talk in the forums about the longevity of the mods even after the launch of SoW is short sighted nonsense. If I had a dollar for every time a read a thread that stated that this sim had influenced a PC upgrade, I'd be a lot better off than I am now, which is the main reason stated that I have read for sticking with IL-2 after the SoW release.

I understand that a lot of people have put great effort into making this sim better for the community via the mods (myself included), but putting all personal efforts aside and looking at it purely from a users point of view, where is the challenge with understanding what is going to be more desirable and entertaining for the end user?

It's a no brainer, think about it.

CS. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuxCorvan
10-25-2009, 04:44 AM
Well, since they only show us the GFX part, that's the only thing we can judge about.

And right now, in that department, "Birds of Prey" towers a kilometer above SoW. Even modded Il-2 is a serious competitor. Heck, even vanilla Il-2 is a serious competitor, if not for the billion-poly models.

Feathered_IV
10-25-2009, 05:37 AM
Does anybody feel that a 2010 release might be just out of reach? My gut feeling is that the March 2010 that has been put about lately is nothing but bull from retailers looking for another pre-order. Olegs own mention of September/October 2010 seems a bit touch and go too, if the screens are anything to go by.

Uufflakke
10-25-2009, 05:44 AM
The last screenshots were from 22nd of May, so after 5 months you would expect something new to see and some developments. It's quite a disappointment to see the same Spitfire cockpit as shown on the bonus disc of 1946 from a couple of years ago and as already shown on a screenshot a year ago. And what does have this Disney landscape with a volcanoe and rubber looking rock island in the water to do with Britain?
When I posted some of the latest screenshots on page 1 in the other thread it was hard to find some decent, acceptable ones.
If you want to trigger people, make them curious and keep their attention about an upcoming game you need to come up with more than some already outdated, visually outbalanced screenshots with jagged edges. I've read somewhere that this is not gonna be just a flightsim but that it would be possible to drive a car or man the Flak so in that case -compared to other games- there needs to be done a lot of work on ground detail. Those trees for instance look like green cotton balls on a stick.

On the other hand it's not a matter of life and death. I don't have to buy it of course. And as long as there are good mods I will have fun with my good ole IL2.

Waldo.Pepper
10-25-2009, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:
SOW is supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of IL2 in areas you cannot depict in pictures... FM/DM


I don't know whether SOW is supposed to be or not. It might be - I am sure that Oleg and UBI would want us to believe that it will be, is supposed to be the revolution you are seeking. I just don't think that this is accurate. I expect improvement, yes but not a revolution like is being implied.


Originally posted by Fehler:
Real complex engine management, real damage of individual systems on board an aircraft, better "feeling" of flight. THIS is what the SOW engine is supposed to be about.

I would have agreed with better rather than real. These things were supposed to be in Il-2. I think that we can mostly agree that in Il-2 DM/FM engine management were an improvement for the genre - but they weren't - real. They weren't dazzling. And neither will it be for SOW.


Originally posted by Fehler:
Or he would not have needed to build a completely new engine to start with!)

Or alternatively the new engine is needed to justify scrapping the existing game. The existing game is no longer a strong enough revenue generator. In short the new engine is marketing.

I want to believe. But I just don't - yet.

http://www.moviezeal.com/wp-content/uploads/i-want-to-believe.jpg

squareusr
10-25-2009, 06:32 AM
It will stand up to most of the explicit expectations but it will fail to deliver many of the little things we take for granted because they have been there in IL2 for so many years.

M_Gunz
10-25-2009, 07:05 AM
IL2 4.xx FM is a direct adaptation of the SOW FM choked down to fit IL2 models, as we were told. One big difference
in the models is that SOW has distributed weight, the 3D parts have weight instead of all mass at the CoG as in IL2.
But beyond that, as we were told, the IL2 flight model is pretty much how SOW will be. Expect some differences in
handling and since they spend more time on fewer planes perhaps the fidelity to those charts.

An old adage in programming is 90% done, only 50% to go.

What else we were told? Better models. Weight is distributed and more 3D parts... hopefully an update will show more
DM examples/details. Hopefully we see more on details of the CEM and failure modes of engine and power train. DM and
the unreal things you can do with CEM are at the crux of some of the biggest gripes of IL2 limits.

The details of the models is higher than stock IL2 that I can see but then I never could run in perfect or even high.
Eye candy is not a high priority for me; DM, AI, and the view are. Were we not told there is a new view system?
I have big hopes that the current LOD system is overhauled as it is very hard to judge distances and speeds now, the
view system is one of the lesser strengths of IL2.

What to expect? Better than IL2:1946.

Waldo.Pepper
10-25-2009, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Does anybody feel that a 2010 release might be just out of reach?

Of course. And if it is released then - then expect many more months of waiting for things that are "on the box" to be released later in a free patch. Anyone remember Betty?

RSS-Martin
10-25-2009, 07:31 AM
yeah the famous two weeks thing....oh well will wait and see what comes or not.

carts
10-25-2009, 04:02 PM
i will buy it.

Feathered_IV
10-26-2009, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Does anybody feel that a 2010 release might be just out of reach?

Of course. And if it is released then - then expect many more months of waiting for things that are "on the box" to be released later in a free patch. Anyone remember Betty? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the one that broke my spirit. It was the moment I made the transition from starry-eyed nub to jaded veteran.

RSS-Martin
10-26-2009, 06:46 AM
Maybe they need this kind of "motivation" to make that what we wish for? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeUzzHLo5Gw