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View Full Version : What do you like most in v4.10?



DKoor
12-24-2010, 02:53 AM
My list;
1-the fact that humans now can be shot down from bleeding , you get shot and in couple of minutes it's bye bye - usually not even that, I just got shot and I was done in minute or so similar to when your aircraft is on fire you get reddish screen that goes red more and more as time goes (ai pilots probably too suffer ? ). I was absolutely fascinated and I really dig this.

2-G stuff. I pulled up with CW.21 too much and hear slight "crack". Effect was similar to that when I got shot in wing... slight loss of control.

3-Ai appears to be different, whether for good or worse I don't know yet.

4-P-51, from initial impressions seems like more stable plane.

...

thefruitbat
12-24-2010, 05:11 AM
the fact that its here, 50% downloaded......

EDIT

installed an checked out, now off to break some planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

PhantomKira
12-24-2010, 08:55 AM
Just pulled the long sought after P-51 "shed-a-wing" over G maneuver. Much fun was had by me, not so much by the airplane.

Night conditions. Pitch black type. Now I wish there were a cockpit light, not just instrument lights for the P-38 etc. Never ends, does it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wind! Turbulence! Finally!

GH_Klingstroem
12-24-2010, 09:35 AM
The p51 is definately more stable!!
This is the greatest patch the game ever got with all the new G stress limits etc etc...
However the game is more or less unplayable for me until the new UP is out. I just cant stand the default sounds and graphics... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But with 4.10 as a base, the game just just expanded its lifetime and awesomeness http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RegRag1977
12-24-2010, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
My list;
1-the fact that humans now can be shot down from bleeding , you get shot and in couple of minutes it's bye bye - usually not even that, I just got shot and I was done in minute or so similar to when your aircraft is on fire you get reddish screen that goes red more and more as time goes (ai pilots probably too suffer ? ). I was absolutely fascinated and I really dig this.

2-G stuff. I pulled up with CW.21 too much and hear slight "crack". Effect was similar to that when I got shot in wing... slight loss of control.

3-Ai appears to be different, whether for good or worse I don't know yet.

4-P-51, from initial impressions seems like more stable plane.

...

+1

I dig exactly the same things (don't know much about AI though).

The G thing is absolutely fabulous!No slats or flaps are going to help you once this option enabled. This feature = noob killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif .



2-G stuff. I pulled up with CW.21 too much and hear slight "crack". Effect was similar to that when I got shot in wing... slight loss of control.


Same here with the 109 and Spitfire, lol... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

I predict that it won't be long until the Red vs Blue whine contest we are used to changes to "those who knows how to fly" vs "those who do not know" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

One of the best patch, really...

Hourra! Team Daidalos! Hourra! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

**Edit********
Oh and i forgot: the fuel load 10% by 10% is a winner especially for heavy birds! And The Hs129 is so wicked http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The more i discover this patch, the more i'm impressed: very good work!

thefruitbat
12-24-2010, 10:31 AM
Well, just spent a couple of hours flying it, and like the G factor alot.

That said, i didn't really find it any issue at all to deal with. There was a few times when i had to ease off in the elevator after diving on some 109's (flying p51), but its easily manageable imo.

As for lower speed turn fighting, its not going to make any diff at all, cause unless your going fast, you will not be able to stress the airframe enough anyway.

Early war stuff is not going to really notice this anywhere near as much as late war stuff, with which you will have to pay some attention, due to the higher speeds of engagements.

The time it really does make a huge difference is when your carrying bombs, no more fighting with bombs on, thats for sure!

P51 is a dream to fly now, as well, which i like alot!

love the new high altitude, and have to get my head around some of the new difficulty settings to do with the map and navigation for hosting!

One thing i do suspect though, although i'd love to hear confirmed or not, is i'm currently doubting the g limiting on the ai after watching some of there moves....

Oh, and if you want to see something thats really cool, go into a power dive from 10000m, and watch the plane slowly disintegrate due to the g forces, looks awesome, although fairly terminal.

stugumby
12-24-2010, 10:55 AM
Love the guided bombs and the jettison feature is quite handy, but wish they would have included the bombay and hud tas ias mod, but maybe it conflicted with the mds?? Overall good stuff indeed, will have to rework some missions made with mods to change some things but its working fine except for error i posted. Also ultrapack has an update that will give you a 410 stand alone option.

rfxcasey
12-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:

Oh, and if you want to see something thats really cool, go into a power dive from 10000m, and watch the plane slowly disintegrate due to the g forces, looks awesome, although fairly terminal.

Thanks for crediting me with pointing it out to you.

rfxcasey
12-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
The G thing is absolutely fabulous!No slats or flaps are going to help you once this option enabled. This feature = noob killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif .



Hum, funny but if I remember correctly weren't insulting comments frowned upon here? Using terms like "noob" isn't going to make new players feel like this is a warm and welcoming community. Its offensive.


Originally posted by RegRag1977:
I predict that it won't be long until the Red vs Blue whine contest we are used to changes to "those who knows how to fly" vs "those who do not know" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif



And far be it from you to instigate such a "whine fest". I assume you consider yourself in the "those who know how to fly" category.

Not trying to flame here but I do get sick of the nasty attitudes that seem so abundant.

crucislancer
12-24-2010, 03:42 PM
Just played around with it real quick, basically wanted to see (and hear) how the beacons worked. Learning how to use that will consume most of my time with this new patch.

I also like the wind/Gusts/turbulence option, and I like how it tells you wind speed at various altitudes.

I haven't tried the AM radio deal yet, but I downloaded some period radio music from mission4today and populated the folders for when I get a chance to test it.

Looking forward to playing with the rest of it.

KRISTORF
12-24-2010, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by rfxcasey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
The G thing is absolutely fabulous!No slats or flaps are going to help you once this option enabled. This feature = noob killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif .



Hum, funny but if I remember correctly weren't insulting comments frowned upon here? Using terms like "noob" isn't going to make new players feel like this is a warm and welcoming community. Its offensive.


Originally posted by RegRag1977:
I predict that it won't be long until the Red vs Blue whine contest we are used to changes to "those who knows how to fly" vs "those who do not know" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif



And far be it from you to instigate such a "whine fest". I assume you consider yourself in the "those who know how to fly" category.

Not trying to flame here but I do get sick of the nasty attitudes that seem so abundant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chill out, its a game and a forum.

As far as I can see there are no insults or flames, maybe you are looking for something that isn't there, so are placing it yourself?

rfxcasey
12-24-2010, 03:55 PM
Well, tis the attitude of the world these days.

blairgowrie
12-24-2010, 04:24 PM
I am waiting!

Beirut
12-24-2010, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
I am waiting!

The wait is over - I mailed you a Christmas ******ss but moments ago. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I'll have the patch in about a minute.

Thanks to The Team for the patch. A lovely Christmas gift. Someone even said it has a Lancaster in it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RegRag1977
12-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by rfxcasey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
The G thing is absolutely fabulous!No slats or flaps are going to help you once this option enabled. This feature = noob killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif .



Hum, funny but if I remember correctly weren't insulting comments frowned upon here? Using terms like "noob" isn't going to make new players feel like this is a warm and welcoming community. Its offensive.


Originally posted by RegRag1977:
I predict that it won't be long until the Red vs Blue whine contest we are used to changes to "those who knows how to fly" vs "those who do not know" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif



And far be it from you to instigate such a "whine fest". I assume you consider yourself in the "those who know how to fly" category.

Not trying to flame here but I do get sick of the nasty attitudes that seem so abundant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


First of all, i'm really sorry if i made you think that i have no respect for newcomers or for you especially, all apologizes . I will watch myself in the future: i did not expect such a reaction at all, and do not want to discourage or mock anyone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif ...

It is just that i really love the job done by TD, and believe that this is going to make US ALL improve and fly more realistically.

And i want you to know that I felt sorry at the moment i read your thread, for i understood not all would like the new patch, but i did not think it was worth deleting my post: since i posted mine long before you posted yours i thought you would not take it like a personal attack (look at the time and date and see it was not against you mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif ).

I know this game can sometimes be frustrating... i've been there too, believe me my piloting is nothing special, it is maybe just that i am playing the game for a longer period of time,and with all this time i would say i'm simply the very slightly above average guy:

the guy who attacks only with altitude advantage, the guy that knows how not to break his crate, that also knows when it's time to run away, thus the guy that generally makes it back home, generally without so much kills. Also the guy that knows how to play in a team, that will keep his eyes on his leader and risk his virtual life to protect his team mates. I know a couple of tricks too.

With you flying with the good folks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif at the Danger Dogs squadron i have no doubt that there are no difficulty in this game that you will not in the end be able to quickly overcome, Casey.

Please, just forget my post... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rfxcasey
12-24-2010, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RegRag1977:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
The G thing is absolutely fabulous!No slats or flaps are going to help you once this option enabled. This feature = noob killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif .



Hum, funny but if I remember correctly weren't insulting comments frowned upon here? Using terms like "noob" isn't going to make new players feel like this is a warm and welcoming community. Its offensive.


Originally posted by RegRag1977:
I predict that it won't be long until the Red vs Blue whine contest we are used to changes to "those who knows how to fly" vs "those who do not know" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif



And far be it from you to instigate such a "whine fest". I assume you consider yourself in the "those who know how to fly" category.

Not trying to flame here but I do get sick of the nasty attitudes that seem so abundant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


First of all, i'm really sorry if i made you think that i have no respect for newcomers or for you especially, all apologizes . I will watch myself in the future: i did not expect such a reaction at all, and do not want to discourage or mock anyone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif ...

It is just that i really love the job done by TD, and believe that this is going to make US ALL improve and fly more realistically.

And i want you to know that I felt sorry at the moment i read your thread, for i understood not all would like the new patch, but i did not think it was worth deleting my post: since i posted mine long before you posted yours i thought you would not take it like a personal attack (look at the time and date and see it was not against you mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif ).

I know this game can sometimes be frustrating... i've been there too, believe me my piloting is nothing special, it is maybe just that i am playing the game for a longer period of time,and with all this time i would say i'm simply the very slightly above average guy:

the guy who attacks only with altitude advantage, the guy that knows how not to break his crate, that also knows when it's time to run away, thus the guy that generally makes it back home, generally without so much kills. Also the guy that knows how to play in a team, that will keep his eyes on his leader and risk his virtual life to protect his team mates. I know a couple of tricks too.

With you flying with the good folks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif at the Danger Dogs squadron i have no doubt that there are no difficulty in this game that you will not in the end be able to quickly overcome, Casey.

Please, just forget my post... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, nothing personal mate. I just get tired of the egos, not saying you have one as I can tell by your response your a humble and reasonable guy. I wish more people had that attitude. I personally try pretty hard and spend a good deal of time just helping folks because its the right thing to do. I try my best to be humble too, though it's easy to see not everyone values such an attitude. You sound like a nice guy so sorry if I caused you grief.

I don't find the G limit that big of a deal really. The first plane I tested on was a F4U and all seemed good unless you do something that you would expect to break the plane.

Second plane I tested was a Mustang which seemed all well and good. G limit really didn't become a big factor.

I did notice though that the Hellcat, which happens to be one of my favs, seems to suffer a much higher G limit penalty then the A6M5s I was pitted against. I haven't seen an AI exceed the G limit yet thought they have been pulling high G moves that will break the Hellcat that attempts to follow which would give them even more of an advantage since the Hellcat has to really heavily on boom and zoom.

From the stuff I have read it sounded like AI would be at the same penalty but from what I have observed early on this doesn't seem to be quite the case. Could be wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the AI had advantage. Just don't think they need anymore.

Wildnoob
12-24-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by rfxcasey:
I haven't seen an AI exceed the G limit yet thought they have been pulling high G moves that will break the Hellcat that attempts to follow which would give them even more of an advantage since the Hellcat has to really heavily on boom and zoom.

I not making any affirmation here, but in the Dogfights episodie about the Hellcat, one of the Zeros is simply unable to follow the American in a high g turn because it would exceed the structural limit.

The Hellcat aiframe was surely more robust than the one of the Zero, but I was wondering at which point, and therefore if it really gave him an advantage.

VW-IceFire
12-24-2010, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
I haven't seen an AI exceed the G limit yet thought they have been pulling high G moves that will break the Hellcat that attempts to follow which would give them even more of an advantage since the Hellcat has to really heavily on boom and zoom.

I not making any affirmation here, but in the Dogfights episodie about the Hellcat, one of the Zeros is simply unable to follow the American in a high g turn because it would exceed the structural limit.

The Hellcat aiframe was surely more robust than the one of the Zero, but I was wondering at which point, and therefore if it really gave him an advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sometimes (and by that I mean quite often) Dogfights will over exaggerate to make things a little more dramatic. The point is probably there... the Hellcat was a robustly designed aircraft versus the Zero that was designed with lightness and range in mind. The question is what are the G tolerances limits between the two.

I've never seen the AI cause a structural failure either.

One thing that needs to be addressed is the matter of perception. In replays I've noticed that I'll black out when the AI doesn't... but the blackout was because I was pulling more G's as the pursuit aircraft than the one being chased. I think that often happens.

PhantomKira
12-24-2010, 10:43 PM
Radio Navigation!!! All RIGHT! No more futzing about with pilotage being the only way to fly without map waypoints! And it works as advertised. Full Real is one step closer.

It appears that the AFN unit on the FW-190 has a red light for on glide path?! (Edit: No, Dufus, read the manual...) Coupled with aural cues, NDBs and Lorenz type glide path homing, one truely can do a complete instrument flight, given a "proper" simulation of an IFR direction reversal after crossing the NDB. Wonderful!

For me, the direction reversal for landing is easiest accomplished by watching signal strength and attempting to be on a reciprocal heading of my landing heading when crossing the NDB, or close to it so that minimal direction change is required to get there. One then flys the outbound heading for X time, maybe three minutes, then does a turn of say 30 degrees away from that heading. Fly one minute, do a 180 degree turn, fly another minute, then turn back to the landing heading, and watch for ILS indications from the Lorenz.

By the way, I tend to put the NDB on field. I know this is "wrong" (it ought to be at the end of the Lorenz beam), but that's the way it was done at my home field when I flew the real deal.

... and for carriers, it's time to dust up on my Morse Code skills. Wow...

'scuse me, I seem to have dropped my jaw on the floor. Time to go find it.

ElAurens
12-25-2010, 01:15 AM
Even though I'm a Curtiss fan boy and think the CW 21B is really cool, the thing that is starting to grow on me is the joystick profiling GUI.

Its a vast improvement.

Everyone seems to thing the new G limits are the best thing, but honestly the only time I have broken an airframe is when I set out to do so on purpose. And even at that it's not that easy, unless you are in a P51, then a missing wing is just a blink of the eye away.

Tried very hard to hurt a Yak 3 VK-107. Made lots of very bad noises but never shed any parts, and never really seemed to fly any differently.

The new bomb fusing seems to be an answer to a question no one asked.

Oh, the radio nav stuff just makes my head explode. I hope it's simpler than it looks on paper. Of course I can think of only 1 map in the whole sim where it might be useful, and we just got that one.

Ba5tard5word
12-25-2010, 01:17 AM
The Solomons (the slot?) maps are lovely and the new AI Cant bomber is beautiful.

The AI does seem like it might be tweaked, but then I thought there were AI changes in 4.09 and the TD people said no. I've been trying some dogfights against Zeros on a Solomons map and they keep getting right on my tail and knocking me out with very little fire, they seem more tenacious than usual, and it seems like they fly in a new formation (I saw something about this in the readme) where four of them fly in two groups of two one after the other rather than in a group of four clustered together, though once they engage they fly the same as usual.

The new stuff in FMB like Fog of War and spotting looks cool, hopefully I can figure it out. Someone said something here about beacons but I don't see anything in the menus.

DKoor
12-25-2010, 04:18 AM
I dig the Hs.129 for ground operations, lovely ground pounder.
Also new Bf-109 loadout options, F2 (one of my fav 109 variants) now has MG151/20 field mod, F4 got gondolas and G10 drop tank http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .
Perhaps the coolest feature is WfrGr.21 cm rockets under wings for Bf-109G6s, now you can jettison the tube launchers after you fire the rockets!

Tip: set your rocket delay to 2 seconds and rocket convergence to 350-500m and fire when you are approx 700m away from the target in bomber formation... hopefully rocket debris wont only affect one bomber but maybe additional bombers too! Just try to be precise to put crosshair at predicted bomber location. It isn't by any means difficult, it can be achieved easily with cockpit on, the toughest part is to calculate bomber distance this is vital in this story. Practice with icons and memorize the bombers length in your crosshair, that would be it.
But this is actually very effective way to kill a bomber (even on ace settings) without the need to get in range of the snipers.
Of course firing position is from directly 6 o clock level.

DKoor
12-25-2010, 05:18 AM
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/Hs-129_damage_1.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/Hs-129_damage_2.jpg

This damage is done by two LaGG-3s who were scoring multiple hits on my Hs-129, mostly on wings, but ultimately I survived.

It seems like this aircraft has fairly strong DM, which is nice because the IL-2 flak is merciless.

DIRTY-MAC
12-25-2010, 05:20 AM
Excellent patch the G limit thing work really good. like it alot. And the new kites, man I love the CW-21B its an awsome little figter and handles lovely and just wanna climb climb climb, check out its climb rate. and it has lots of ammo. 1000 rounds per gun. This is my new favourite figter.
The RE2000 is also a blast to fly. Lovely patch

DKoor
12-25-2010, 06:41 AM
Juts tried out the RE.2000... that thing flies better than I-16, I mean it flies almost like I-16 but without nasty wing drop tendency.
It is joy to fly, especially considering the fact that it is 1940 fighter.

About CW.21B... yes the thing is now my new fav PTO fighter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

ElAurens
12-25-2010, 08:25 AM
The mitigating factor in the RE 2000 are the pea shooter guns it has.

It is a very good aeroplane from a dynamic standpoint, if a bit slow. It's roots as a development/copy of the Seversky P35 are evident.

DIRTY MAC, I saw you pop in to my server yesterday but then leave, problems?

I'll be making some proper missions now that I have a handle on what is what.

F-six
12-25-2010, 09:31 AM
The ability to create flights with ease in FMB

F-six
12-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Also P-51D can now go 350MPH at sea level. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thefruitbat
12-25-2010, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by F-six:
Also P-51D can now go 350MPH at sea level. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

it could anyway. 367 to be precise.

stugumby
12-25-2010, 02:02 PM
Is there a variable to throw in wheel spats on the I-15? was in an older mission proofing it for 410 and swear plane 2 had wheel spats.

Bula
12-25-2010, 02:08 PM
1. Reggiane Re. 2000

2. New AI a/c - Cant Z. 1007 in particular

3. Breda 12.7 mm guns seem much more powerful now, although they (and their 7.7 mm cousins) have lost the tracer smoke. I tore a P39 in two from over 200 yards with the Bredas on a Macchi 200 and took the wing off a Hurri at a similar distance with the Bredas on an Re. 2000. Maybe Italian incendiary ammo is now modeled?

4. New skins for IAR 80/81 series. They look good. (Some parts of the IAR 81 cockpit look as though they may have been revamped a bit, too.)

5. New spinner cap (nose) for the Fiat G. 50. The old one remains for the Finnish skin but we finally have the correct version for the Italian desert skin. Looks good.

And since it's Christmas, here's a wish list for 4.11:

1. Movable radiator slats on the IAR series
2. Flyable Fiat G. 55

Thank you Team Daidalos!

crucislancer
12-25-2010, 02:16 PM
I think I might have experienced the Engine Reliability a bit ago, but I'm not quite sure as I don't fly the Seafire all that often. I set up a QMB mission with a flight of Seafires, a flight of SBDs with bombs, against a flight of A6M5s on the Coral Sea map. My Seafire overheated fairly quickly, and it took forever to cool down despite having the rad flaps open all the way and my engine and prop below 100%. When it finally did cool off, my engine sounded and acted like it had some obvious issues, lack of power and grinding noise. I know I didn't get hit, so either the new difficulty option came into play or that's typical Seafire behavior. I decided to land so I don't know how much longer the engine would have run.

I really like some of the new planes, and I've played around a little bit with the new Spitfire variants. All in all, this patch will keep my busy for a while!

Viikate_
12-25-2010, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by stugumby:
Is there a variable to throw in wheel spats on the I-15? was in an older mission proofing it for 410 and swear plane 2 had wheel spats.

Spats for I-15bis appear sometimes randomly with default skin, but you can also bind them to certain bmp skin. Here is nice skin by Hayate used as an example.

http://www.simmerspaintshop.co...15bis_with_spats.zip (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/%7Eviikate/I-15bis_with_spats.zip)

Copy the two files to PaintSchemes\Skins\I-15bis

fabianfred
12-25-2010, 03:28 PM
For those of you who miss their mods there is a new Mod activator pack out at SAS...

mortoma
12-25-2010, 05:11 PM
I didn't even know the patch was out! Just going now to get it of course. I hope the G force stuff is selectable with a difficulty switch. I suggested this be an option to the Daidalos team a bunch of times.

Ba5tard5word
12-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Yes it is a switch. I haven't seen it do anything yet but then I've only been doing short missions at sea level.

blairgowrie
12-25-2010, 06:00 PM
New Spitfire modeling. Less wobble hence better gun platform. Also flares better on landing with increased ground effect.

AndyJWest
12-25-2010, 06:44 PM
...flares better on landing with increased ground effect.
Interesting. There was a discussion on ground effect some months back, and I did a fair bit of investigation. I'll have to see if anything has changed compared to the tests I did. Fortunately my autopilot still works in 4.10 (as far as I can tell - I've only had a quick try-out), so I should be able to repeat the tests.

Ba5tard5word
12-25-2010, 06:47 PM
I like the new tracers on the Italian planes, they're like US/UK tracers now and it makes it much easier to get hits with them for some reason.

I tried messing around a little with the beacon objects...wow you can put down radio stations like the BBC and Radio Honolulu? Neat but I don't see how you can activate them in the game. Someone is going to have to make a FAQ of some sort for beacons, fog of war and spotters.

All in all I think I will wait for UP to update, I really prefer the AI in UP. Endless ostensibly nausea-inducing barrel rolls by the AI aren't really my thing anymore.

ElAurens
12-25-2010, 07:34 PM
They need to get rid of the silly two second bomb fusing.

It's stupid. And it has broken skip bombing.

If the real reason for it is to stop idiots from dropping bombs while sitting on the ramp, then just code the bomb releases to not work if the aircraft is on the ground. End of problem. Or make it a selectable option.

AndyJWest
12-25-2010, 07:41 PM
In case you hadn't noticed: 3rd screen of 'Difficulty' settings:
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/il2fb2010-12-2602-15-06-60.jpg

From the User Guide:


Bf 110 G-2 pit changes and new radio operators . No third crew member. Rear gunner
is now acting as radio operator and shift+F1 view changes positions.


Radio operator view - note navigation instruments...
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/il2fb2010-12-2602-21-06-56.jpg

... most usefully, the radio compass (right)
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/il2fb2010-12-2602-20-10-40.jpg

ElAurens
12-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Question.

Where are you going to navigate to on the tiny maps we have?

Not trying to be flippant, just really don't see the necessity of this much effort placed in something when there are so many huge gaps in the plane set, available ships, ground vehicles, maps, etc...

Feathered_IV
12-25-2010, 09:52 PM
I think they might be thinking more of the future. Especially with some of the night flying stuff they have in the works. The nav tools will work nicely in the meantime with existing maps that have a lot of open water though.

crucislancer
12-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
I tried messing around a little with the beacon objects...wow you can put down radio stations like the BBC and Radio Honolulu? Neat but I don't see how you can activate them in the game. Someone is going to have to make a FAQ of some sort for beacons, fog of war and spotters.

I can't comment on fog of war, but the beacons are fairly easy to set up. As far as using them for navigation, that takes some getting used to.

For the radio stations, if you have any experience messing with the music files in IL-2 then you won't have a problem with them. There are 7 AM radio stations, the folders are located in the Samples\Music\Radio folder. They are empty, so you need to put something in them. Technically, you can put any file you want in there, so you don't have to have .wav files of old BBC programs in the BBC folder.

I suggest going to mission4today and looking for music and radio chatter in the download section. A couple of folks have made WWII radio files for use with the InFlight folder, and they will work in the Radio folders.

Go into the FMB, look in Stationary Objects, 3/4 of the way down the list will be the radio stations and beacons. Select the one that you want to use (one that has a wav file in it) and place it someplace that will be within line of sight of your aircraft. Start the mission, and in the Controls menu just before the HOTAS section, you will find an empty command called Next Beacon. Assign a key, then go back into the game and select the beacon, the name of the beacon will come up on the right where you get engine info.

You need to have music on and I believe the In Flight music as well.

I set up the Honolulu station with 3 music files in the root folder, and 1 in folder called 1945XXXX. Setting the mission date prior to 1945 will have the 3 files play, date in 1945 will have the single file play. Very cool feature.

The other beacons work straight out of the box, just put one on the map and select it, and you will hear the Morse code once a minute. I had to download a Morse code sheet in order to get the hang of it.

mortoma
12-25-2010, 10:40 PM
Just took the patch out for a spin and flew the R-2000 or whatever you call it. And that little CW-21. So far my flying skills have not broken the G limits so all these years I probably have flown pretty lightly. Not as big of a deal as I thought at all as far as the G limits go.

So far I give the patch a good mark, 8.5 or 9 out of 10. Nothing gets a 10. Nice job and I think the extra time it took to develop was worth it. They took their time and were careful.

Ba5tard5word
12-25-2010, 10:45 PM
So what could you do with the beacons, do they tell you where their position is or something? How could you use them in a mission.

The radio thing sound complicated, but I guess it would be neat to make a Pearl Harbor mission where the Japanese planes could tune into Radio Honolulu like they did in the movies...

BoB_GEN_Tazman
12-26-2010, 12:15 AM
There are some really nice additions in this patch! I like the radio navigation and AM stations, now just to learn some Morse code...

Any info on how the AM stations are going to be handled in multiplayer? If the client does not have the audio file, will that be some sort of a disadvantage?

M_Gunz
12-26-2010, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
So what could you do with the beacons, do they tell you where their position is or something? How could you use them in a mission.

The radio thing sound complicated, but I guess it would be neat to make a Pearl Harbor mission where the Japanese planes could tune into Radio Honolulu like they did in the movies...

Do you know that compass that has been used to point to the next waypoint? It's a radio-compass. It points to a radio source that the pilot tunes in on.

A page from Aircraft Navigation History (http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ndb-nav-history.htm)


The Radio Compass was the first glimmer of hope in determining bearings to a radio station, of filling the information void of the four course radio range. It added a fixed loop antenna and visual indicator to the receiver system. With this system, as long as the aircraft was headed directly toward a radio station the needle of the indicator remained centered; headings to the right or left of the station resulted in a corresponding deflection of the needle.

The radio compass was chiefly used as a "homing" device, and bearings of radio stations off the line of flight could be obtained only by turning the aircraft toward the station and noting the magnetic compass heading when the needle was centered.

Replacing the fixed loop antenna with a rotatable loop eliminated this cumbersome maneuver. This system was called a Radio Direction Finder. With the rotatable loop, bearings could now be obtained without turning the airplane itself. The pilot or navigator would rotate the loop, usually mounted on the fuselage below the cockpit, to the position of minimum signal strength, or "null." The bearing to the radio station was then read from a graduated, mechanical dial.

By repeating this procedure with a second beacon an aircraft's position could be determined by triangulation after locating the two stations on the flight chart.

DC-3 showing ADF antenna The Automatic Direction Finder, a marvelous invention, followed the RDF. Finally, a self-contained apparatus for aircraft navigation was available. Gone were rotatable loop antennas and guess-work readings from mechanical azimuth dials. The ADF indicator needle always points directly towards the beacon, which now could be a Non Directional Beacon—NDB. Rick Covington's photograph of a Piedmont DC-3 shows the ADF antenna mounted below the cockpit.

The NDB provides good, basic navigation capabilities. An aircraft can follow the ADF needle to home to the station, although this is poor navigation practice—see later. The aircraft can track a specific NDB radio radial—electronic highway—to fly a specific course to or from the NDB station. The pilot can use two crossing radials to triangulate a position for a navigational fix. With a timer, it’s even possible to determine time and/or distance to and/or from an NDB station.

In addition, and probably the most prominent use of the NDB, it can provide an instrument approach procedure for landing. A pilot could now locate a runway without actually seeing it, to descend through overcast and/or low visibility conditions and land the aircraft by reference to the ADF indicator, the compass and the clock or a timer.

Yep, mused the old-timer, as he refilled his coffee, the ADF sure simplified navigation.

Click on the ADF Basics button to see what the old-timer meant.

VW-IceFire
12-26-2010, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
They need to get rid of the silly two second bomb fusing.

It's stupid. And it has broken skip bombing.

If the real reason for it is to stop idiots from dropping bombs while sitting on the ramp, then just code the bomb releases to not work if the aircraft is on the ground. End of problem. Or make it a selectable option.
If I'm not mistaken it's just realistic bomb fuse arming. I was practicing skip bombing last night and indeed it's difficult to perform now. You have to fly higher and time your bomb drops more carefully so that the bombs skip for approximately 2 seconds before exploding.

Blasting stuff online is going to be much harder!

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
They need to get rid of the silly two second bomb fusing.

It's stupid. And it has broken skip bombing.

If the real reason for it is to stop idiots from dropping bombs while sitting on the ramp, then just code the bomb releases to not work if the aircraft is on the ground. End of problem. Or make it a selectable option.
If I'm not mistaken it's just realistic bomb fuse arming. I was practicing skip bombing last night and indeed it's difficult to perform now. You have to fly higher and time your bomb drops more carefully so that the bombs skip for approximately 2 seconds before exploding.

Blasting stuff online is going to be much harder! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You think so?
I would say likely newbees taking up bombers will strongly tend towards zero. This is the way to push fighters, and make online missions obsolete. I agree with ElAurens absolutely, this is not realism but a forcing of playing the game a certain way, and nothing else.
Ever since bombers have been flyable on this game I have been into bombers, but this is a absolute shot in the foot.

thefruitbat
12-26-2010, 09:31 AM
rubbish, it took me about 15mins to work out bombing in 4.10.

i sorry that you guys can't be bothered to take 15 mins of your life to work it out yourselves, but thats your problem.

skip bombing is still easy, just a bit different.

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ElAurens
12-26-2010, 09:43 AM
Fruitbat, I tried for over an hour to sink a ship via skip bombing on a test map I made.

Never got it to work and I'm hardly a n00b at this sim.

JG52Uther
12-26-2010, 09:43 AM
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.

TheGrunch
12-26-2010, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.
Is that even a reasonable thing to expect to be able to do? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 09:54 AM
Well nice that you are happy fruitbat, I have tried also almost an hour and either the bombs would not go off or I blew myself up in the process, but then I am just a noob who has flown bombers for a good seven years now on this sim.
Thank you for your tips.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

thefruitbat
12-26-2010, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.
Is that even a reasonable thing to expect to be able to do? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

apparantly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

since when did planes in world war 2 'skip bomb' on land on purpose anyway?

@ElAurens, don't really know what to say, you can see what i was doing in the vid above, and i got 5 hits in a row, before i made that vid.

when i was practising at first i was mainly messing up because i was dropping to close to the ship.

i'm dropping at @40m flying level, and a bit further away from the ships than i used to.

@RSS-Martin, i never called anyone a noob, i just said it take a bit of practise.

i did say however that its rubbish that its impossible.

Treetop64
12-26-2010, 09:56 AM
"What do you like most in v4.10?"

No more being a "waypoint slave", especially on DGen CAP missions. I no longer have to feel guilty about missing one of those triangular waypoints, as though Monk is flying missions in WWII...

Seroiusly, there's so much to like in the new patch, it's hard to know where to begin.

I like the attention to the small details, like both the radiator flap and the oil cooler flap opening and closing on the Yak-1 now, among hundreds of other things.

JG52Uther
12-26-2010, 09:59 AM
No idea,its how online wars have always been done,perhaps all the online wars will have to be changed now to take in to account DT's view of how bombs should work!'Skip bombing' is probably the wrong term to use on land,but low alt attacks certainly happened.Until 4.10 that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I to am finding skip bombing very difficult now,and I am not too convinced that it is for realisms sake,or a DT ex modders view of how skip bombing should work...

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 10:04 AM
Well I got a little whisper that the UP people seem to want to change the loony bomb settings of 4.10m
I hope they do then my favorite two servers are then o.k. from my point of view with 4.10 & UP, but stock 4.10m the way it is now no thanks.

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGrunch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.
Is that even a reasonable thing to expect to be able to do? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

apparantly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

since when did planes in world war 2 'skip bomb' on land on purpose anyway?

@ElAurens, don't really know what to say, you can see what i was doing in the vid above, and i got 5 hits in a row, before i made that vid.

when i was practising at first i was mainly messing up because i was dropping to close to the ship.

i'm dropping at @40m flying level, and a bit further away from the ships than i used to.

@RSS-Martin, i never called anyone a noob, i just said it take a bit of practise.

i did say however that its rubbish that its impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is o.k. Fruitbat no hard feelings, just a bit p!$$ed about 4.10m and the skip bombing bit that is all.
As I really do enjoy flying bombers very much, actually my only interest in this sim.
But when skip bombing becomes a bit of a joke, your bomb delay depending on release hight either works or not, the mood is not exactly the happiest......well you know gruppy old fart.
Sorry if my reply came over other wise.

thefruitbat
12-26-2010, 10:23 AM
no worries.

ElAurens
12-26-2010, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Viikate_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stugumby:
Is there a variable to throw in wheel spats on the I-15? was in an older mission proofing it for 410 and swear plane 2 had wheel spats.

Spats for I-15bis appear sometimes randomly with default skin, but you can also bind them to certain bmp skin. Here is nice skin by Hayate used as an example.

http://www.simmerspaintshop.co...15bis_with_spats.zip (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/%7Eviikate/I-15bis_with_spats.zip)

Copy the two files to PaintSchemes\Skins\I-15bis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a way to make this work with other skins? I don't really understand the mechanism.

TheGrunch
12-26-2010, 10:32 AM
What aircraft are you flying, Martin? I manage to get it right probably 75-80% of the time in the B-25. Bomb delay 2s, height 50-60m.

ElAurens
12-26-2010, 10:39 AM
Viikate, I just dropped the two files you linked to into the I-15 bis folder and it did not work.

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8609/grab0000.jpg

stugumby
12-26-2010, 10:43 AM
Im doing ok with a-20g skip bombing at 230 mph 100m dropping bombs when mast top is under center of reticle, hit with 2 of 4 bombs most of the time 2 skips max. However torpedo luck is nil, always get failed in water message.

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
What aircraft are you flying, Martin? I manage to get it right probably 75-80% of the time in the B-25. Bomb delay 2s, height 50-60m.
Well the main aircraft I fly are the G4M1 the odd time a He111 and seldomly a Ju88 non stock the Ki21 and the B5N1.
My tries with 4.10m where all done with the G4M1.
First runs where done at the recommended 25m height full speed 3 sec delay set, bomb skipped hit ship nothing happened.
Next run was at 30m all the rest the same, bomb hit ship results nothing happened.
Went up to 60m everything the same, bomb hits ship sunk.
Went then to 70m everything else the same, bomb hits and I am blown out of the sky.
On the old 4.09m settings I would sink my target at a rate of a good 99% very rarely ever missed.

TheGrunch
12-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Hmm, I had the wheel-spats the three times I tried it, ElAurens. Did you choose USSR as your nationality before hiding the markings? That might have something to do with it, perhaps.

It's certainly a bit harder in the G4M1 without a gunsight as a reference, but I still managed 3 times out of 4 I think, and the time I missed was because I dropped well too early and it skipped a few times and then blew about 20m away from the ship. Admittedly I have no idea where the altimeter is on the G4M1 so I had to use the speed bar. Like the B-25 it's better to drop at about 60m, it seems. I was using whatever the biggest single bomb it can carry was.
Check the 4.10m documentation for the torpedoes, stugumby:
"Each torpedo type in IL-2 has its optimum drop parameters, of course some error is allowed,
but not too much.

LT F5W (Italian Whitehead)
100m, 300Km/h

LT F5B
40m, 250Km/h

Mk13, Mk13a
30m, 205 km/h

Mk13 late
180m, 400 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)

Type91
30m, 240 Km/h

Type91 late
60m, 330 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)

45-17
30m, 205 km/h"

EJGrOst_Caspar
12-26-2010, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Viikate, I just dropped the two files you linked to into the I-15 bis folder and it did not work.


On various skin folders since 4.09 (i.e. Fokkers) there is a customisation.ini, where you can read in following:



This file is used for customizing some minor features of the plane by binding them to certain BMP skin.
To enable some feature, put the skin's checksum under certain tag. To find out the checksum, clear skin cache
at PaintSchemes\Cache, start the game, load skin and alt-tab back to Windows. Now cache folder has a new folder
named with long series of numbers. This is the checksum.

ElAurens
12-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Thank you sir.

I'll give it a try with my favorite skins for the I-15bis.

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
Hmm, I had the wheel-spats the three times I tried it, ElAurens. Did you choose USSR as your nationality before hiding the markings? That might have something to do with it, perhaps.

It's certainly a bit harder in the G4M1 without a gunsight as a reference, but I still managed 3 times out of 4 I think, and the time I missed was because I dropped well too early and it skipped a few times and then blew about 20m away from the ship. Admittedly I have no idea where the altimeter is on the G4M1 so I had to use the speed bar. Like the B-25 it's better to drop at about 60m, it seems. I was using whatever the biggest single bomb it can carry was.
Check the 4.10m documentation for the torpedoes, stugumby:
"Each torpedo type in IL-2 has its optimum drop parameters, of course some error is allowed,
but not too much.

LT F5W (Italian Whitehead)
100m, 300Km/h

LT F5B
40m, 250Km/h

Mk13, Mk13a
30m, 205 km/h

Mk13 late
180m, 400 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)

Type91
30m, 240 Km/h

Type91 late
60m, 330 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)

45-17
30m, 205 km/h"

Well just tried it again, G4M1 800kg bomb, delay set for 3sec. Skip bomb attacks not one hit where the bomb went off, what does work is a flat dive there two attempts two sinks.
On the skip bombing runs alone with the dudds the ships should have sank, came in between 280 and 310km/h, the altimeter in the cockpit is hard to read, so usually I just use the navigators position for bomb runs, meaning when you don´t have the speed bar on you have to guess your speed.
The flat dives I think is what I will try a bit more as the skip bombing is frustrating, purely chance hitting anything. Torpedos I rarely take as so loose your option of hitting land targets too. I only take torpedos when going against a ship that is spitting very heavy flak, where skip bombing is then too dangerous.
Have to see how it is in the He111, but since I mainly fly ZvsW I seldom fly the He111, even thought it is a great bomber which I really like, but I prefer the Pacific maps.

ElAurens
12-26-2010, 11:36 AM
Well for some reason I still get no wheel spats.

Oh well. I guess it's not meant to be.

TheGrunch
12-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well just tried it again, G4M1 800kg bomb, delay set for 3sec. Skip bomb attacks not one hit where the bomb went off, what does work is a flat dive there two attempts two sinks.
On the skip bombing runs alone with the dudds the ships should have sank, came in between 280 and 310km/h, the altimeter in the cockpit is hard to read, so usually I just use the navigators position for bomb runs, meaning when you don´t have the speed bar on you have to guess your speed.
The flat dives I think is what I will try a bit more as the skip bombing is frustrating, purely chance hitting anything. Torpedos I rarely take as so loose your option of hitting land targets too. I only take torpedos when going against a ship that is spitting very heavy flak, where skip bombing is then too dangerous.
Have to see how it is in the He111, but since I mainly fly ZvsW I seldom fly the He111, even thought it is a great bomber which I really like, but I prefer the Pacific maps.
Hmm. I might make a video from the cockpit view of the G4M1 in a couple of days so we can compare notes. Too occupied with the pressing business of Christmas leftovers ATM! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 11:51 AM
No problem, shallow dives seem to work, skip bombing the way it is now pointless.
If skip bombing where the only option in bombing I would then only fly recon missions, as the settings at the moment are a absolute turn off. In my opinion.

Viikate_
12-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Tested with two different PCs. Works for both.

Also tested by two other persons and it works for them too. Do you ElAurens have absolutely clean 4.10 install.
http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/~viikate/I-15bis_spats.jpg

Ba5tard5word
12-26-2010, 12:19 PM
Maybe they could make the new skip bombing a switch to turn on and off sort of thing if it's really that bad. Or you could just switch to dive bombing...I could never figure out skip bombing in the first place.

thefruitbat
12-26-2010, 12:38 PM
don't know if this will help you RSS Martin, but heres a short vid of skip bombing in a betty, dropped at 40m height, with 3 second delay, 1*500kg bomb,

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M_Gunz
12-26-2010, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.

We could do a LOT of things that aren't possible full-switch now. Does that mean how it is now is wrong?

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 12:43 PM
Well up to 4.10 I was good in skip and dive bombing. As of 4.10 skip bombing pure luck of sinking anything at all, even the movie quoted bass fidel against a barn door would not help.
And I am no beginner with bombers, so I really do wonder how new comers will react with the 4.10 bomb settings? I can not imagine this will encourage flying bombers but more drive people to flying fighters, which is o.k. but what do you do on servers that have mission oriented maps? Just ignor them and furball?
What is going to happen on those maps when you have no one willing to fly the bombers?

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
don't know if this will help you RSS Martin, but heres a short vid of skip bombing in a betty, dropped at 40m height, with 3 second delay, 1*500kg bomb,

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Hmm it is of interest fruitbat thankyou!
Looks like you are dropping your bomb a lot earlier than I am, will try and see what turns out. Thankyou for sharing.

M_Gunz
12-26-2010, 12:55 PM
There is a way it works or FB could not have made his video. Unless he cheats and is using 4.09?

LOL FB! Not saying you did!

crucislancer
12-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well up to 4.10 I was good in skip and dive bombing. As of 4.10 skip bombing pure luck of sinking anything at all, even the movie quoted bass fidel against a barn door would not help.
And I am no beginner with bombers, so I really do wonder how new comers will react with the 4.10 bomb settings? I can not imagine this will encourage flying bombers but more drive people to flying fighters, which is o.k. but what do you do on servers that have mission oriented maps? Just ignor them and furball?
What is going to happen on those maps when you have no one willing to fly the bombers?

Pure luck? Right now, that is true. Develop new tactics and it won't be pure luck anymore, it will be skill.

I really don't think there is any reason to worry about it. New players will not even realize that there is anything different, unless veteran players are constantly complaining about the change rather then coming up a new way to skip bomb.

From my experiences online, new players gravitate to fighters first anyway, and then move on to bombers after they have played for a while and want a new challenge.

Take the new bomb fusing as a challenge to overcome. I know I welcome the challenge, along with the challenge of figuring out the new navigation options and flying some new planes.

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 01:10 PM
O.k after wathing fruitbats video and another round of testing. G4M1 800kg bomb 3sec delay dropped about the same time as on FBs vid, blew myself out of the air. Went back set the delay to a ridicules 6sec which I have never used before with a 800kg bomb. Came in at 40m dropped again simular to FB and this time it worked, ship sunk, Betty unharmed. Will take a little getting used to, after flying years differantly, also will have to remember to change my delay. But o.k. it is do-able you fellows have made your point.

RSS-Martin
12-26-2010, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well up to 4.10 I was good in skip and dive bombing. As of 4.10 skip bombing pure luck of sinking anything at all, even the movie quoted bass fidel against a barn door would not help.
And I am no beginner with bombers, so I really do wonder how new comers will react with the 4.10 bomb settings? I can not imagine this will encourage flying bombers but more drive people to flying fighters, which is o.k. but what do you do on servers that have mission oriented maps? Just ignor them and furball?
What is going to happen on those maps when you have no one willing to fly the bombers?

Pure luck? Right now, that is true. Develop new tactics and it won't be pure luck anymore, it will be skill.

I really don't think there is any reason to worry about it. New players will not even realize that there is anything different, unless veteran players are constantly complaining about the change rather then coming up a new way to skip bomb.

From my experiences online, new players gravitate to fighters first anyway, and then move on to bombers after they have played for a while and want a new challenge.

Take the new bomb fusing as a challenge to overcome. I know I welcome the challenge, along with the challenge of figuring out the new navigation options and flying some new planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well as my previous comment states I have now figured out how it works. And no I certainly am not one that will moan and groan during a game. I hate unneccesary chit chat during flying.
I love the addition of g-forces very much, this definately will make the game more interesting.
As I mentioned only the skip bombing thing bugged me, but it seemed the main problem was the delay 3 sec and 800kg does not go well, and dropping my bomb too late, so that the full 2sec till impact where not there.
All the rest is fine.

JG52Uther
12-26-2010, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Can you do one skip bombing 3 tanks moving at 30 kph please Fruitbat.
A common attack in online wars,but I reckon almost impossible now.

We could do a LOT of things that aren't possible full-switch now. Does that mean how it is now is wrong? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could be! All we are doing now is using a different mod pack,this one made by TD...

DKoor
12-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
"What do you like most in v4.10?"

No more being a "waypoint slave", especially on DGen CAP missions. I no longer have to feel guilty about missing one of those triangular waypoints, as though Monk is flying missions in WWII... Aww man, I laughed so hard.

DKoor
12-26-2010, 03:27 PM
About skip bombing guys try this for a start.

Select QMB, Pacific Islands map and P-63 King Cobra and use 1x 500lb bomb as loadout. No target. Altitude 200-500m.
Bomb delay = 2 sec.


Fly past that small moon like island pretty much straight forward. You should be able to spot 2 enemy cargo ships, if not use F7 to padlock ground.

Then level your fighter at 30-50m altitude, put crosshair on/over ships bow. Then when you are in range release bombs.
Two things are vital; first that you are at least 30m altitude and second that bomb makes at least one frog skip on water.
In USER GUIDE it says that while skip bombing minimum altitude is 25m and bomb "needs" 2 sec to arm regardless of your delay.
But in reality you will have 100% success if you follow my procedure.

So, you will destroy that cargo 100% times without you being afflicted by bomb detonation.

With dedicated ground attack planes things *may* be a bit more difficult, because of larger blasts and aircraft being slower but I think that we may adapt to that with little or no trouble.

Just remember, min alt is 25m and at least one frog skip on water before impact on ship, while bomb delay is set on 2 sec.

I need to experiment more with other bombs... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
12-26-2010, 05:48 PM
Once you've dropped, it's okay to veer off. Bomb will go straight.
The 2 seconds starts with first impact on water or just bomb release and that is why start farther out, yes?

Feathered_IV
12-26-2010, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
The 2 seconds starts with first impact on water or just bomb release and that is why start farther out, yes?

As I understand it, in real life the fusing mechanism begins spinning the moment the bomb is released and requires the minimum 2 seconds to complete the arming process. Many types of bomb required more than this 2 second minimum of course. The RAF especially had some real headaches trying to reduce their arming time to allow low level operations.

The previous system in 409 and before was a sort of magic insantaneous arming that was pretty cute for computer gamers but didn't reflect the reality at all.

mortoma
12-26-2010, 07:29 PM
I agree that the Italian Mgs are more powerful. I did a mission with me and three AI, all of us in Re.2000 set on ace. We went against four I-16 Type 18 set on ace AI. I ended up shooting down 3 of the I-16s, the first one I de-winged and the second one I hit dead six in the fuselage and it just blew up in a million pieces. The third one I shot his engine out completely ( motor/prop stopped ) and killed the pilot at the same time, so he nosed in.

joeap
12-26-2010, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
The 2 seconds starts with first impact on water or just bomb release and that is why start farther out, yes?

As I understand it, in real life the fusing mechanism begins spinning the moment the bomb is released and requires the minimum 2 seconds to complete the arming process. Many types of bomb required more than this 2 second minimum of course. The RAF especially had some real headaches trying to reduce their arming time to allow low level operations.

The previous system in 409 and before was a sort of magic insantaneous arming that was pretty cute for computer gamers but didn't reflect the reality at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Voila no reason for this "whine" then, assuming Feathered is correct and I know in Silent Hunter you can't shot torpedoes at point blank range cause like in reality they need to run a short distance (100m or so) to arm.

Feathered_IV
12-26-2010, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by EJGrOst_Caspar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Viikate, I just dropped the two files you linked to into the I-15 bis folder and it did not work.


On various skin folders since 4.09 (i.e. Fokkers) there is a customisation.ini, where you can read in following:



This file is used for customizing some minor features of the plane by binding them to certain BMP skin.
To enable some feature, put the skin's checksum under certain tag. To find out the checksum, clear skin cache
at PaintSchemes\Cache, start the game, load skin and alt-tab back to Windows. Now cache folder has a new folder
named with long series of numbers. This is the checksum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks caspar!

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd119/Feathered_IV/grab0000.jpg

Cheers Joeap. I recall reading an account by an NG1 pilot who's airfield in france was hit by low level Blenheims. He said they all came thundering over the perimeter and dropped their bombs at low level. Almost all of them failed to explode because the fuses didn't have time to arm themselves correctly and afterwards were just lying around harmlessly on the field.

M_Gunz
12-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
The RAF especially had some real headaches trying to reduce their arming time to allow low level operations.

Oh yeah, the bombs had to be 'wound up'. You would NOT want some wobble or shake happen and turn you to confetti even from....
2 seconds fall gets 2^2/2 x 9.81m(32.2ft) distance, not even 20m drop and it might be armed-armed but at least out of your slipstream.

I am reminded of what I read in one "Secret Weapons of WWII" type book. There was a part about fuses and the different design philosophies that made many weapons different. I can't say it's completely true given the early US torpedo duds but here goes; it said that the US approach was to make a fuse that works and then find ways to make it safe while the British approach was to make it safe and then find ways to make it work. IIRC that was a historic comment the book authors dug up.

PhantomKira
12-26-2010, 10:33 PM
RSS-Martin, I must point out that I swear I heard FruitBat take damage in the in cockpit portion of that skip bombing video. Wasn't much, but the distinct sound was there.

RSS-Martin
12-27-2010, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
RSS-Martin, I must point out that I swear I heard FruitBat take damage in the in cockpit portion of that skip bombing video. Wasn't much, but the distinct sound was there.
Well that was with 4.09 also the case, low level skip bomb attacks and you often ended up with a dead rear gunner, I had that happen fairly often.
But after changing my delay to 6sec things where o.k.
The only thing where I still have my doubts is that water hitting the bomb casing can stop the arming procedure, for that I would like to see hard proof.
All the rest is o.k.
Although there are also some exceptions.....just need to think of these canister bombs filled with these anti tank bomblets, during training one of these fell to the ground and the casing riped open, and there was a big hub bub because the mini bomblets where already live!

DKoor
12-27-2010, 03:07 AM
http://www.filefactory.com/fil...n/g4m_800kg_410.ntrk (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b4d88ac/n/g4m_800kg_410.ntrk)

http://www.filefactory.com/fil...ju87_1800kg_410.ntrk (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b4d88a4/n/ju87_1800kg_410.ntrk)

This is the way... 4 second bomb time delay, fire when in range = success!

BTW Stuka is fairly slow mud mover and if she doesn't get hit by the SC1800kg bomb blast I don't think anything in this game will... i.e. this is the successful way how to perform a skip bomb with any ordnance in game now.

As some guys pointed out, I've tried with more delay, 5sec or 6sec, but it doesn't give 100% reliable results since you need to be really precise not to drop too late (wont detonate) or too soon (so bomb doesn't get to the ship). I dislike that since you usually have one bomb run opportunity at best, so you must make sure that your bomb hit and detonate, which with larger delays is hell of a job... getting really precise thru the flak & fighters and all that mess...

4sec is perfect since you don't get hit by the blast and it always goes off, providing that you have one frog skip on the water which is easy peasy job to do.

RSS-Martin
12-27-2010, 03:37 AM
Well I had only set my delay for the heck of it to 6sec, because I was getting a little pi$$ed by being blown out of the air with my upto now standard 3sec delay.
Absolutely agree under heavy flak fire one does not want to have to do more than neccesary bomb runs, as that just hightens your chances of being shot down.
But I got a feeling this new setting has more something to do with preventing spawnkillers from dropping their bomb on the ground, than realism, as normally a bomb casing skipping or bouncing along a surface should have no effect to the arming procedure at all.
They could have solved that problem by having the bomb arm first when a min. velocity is reached, and all this fuss would not have aroused at all.

EJGrOst_Caspar
12-27-2010, 04:40 AM
The question is: do you want it more realistic than before or do you want it easy?

Guess it should be an option.

EDIT: Maybe we should make every new stuff as an option? So noone would complain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

EJGrOst_Caspar
12-27-2010, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

But I got a feeling this new setting has more something to do with preventing spawnkillers from dropping their bomb on the ground, than realism,



Fuse arming was introduced by the various nations to prevent accidents, yes. Generally, preventing 'spawnkillers' IS more realistic!
So this is more realistic AND good for the gameplay. Heureka!



as normally a bomb casing skipping or bouncing along a surface should have no effect to the arming procedure at all.



You seem to be pretty sure about that.
But I doubt, you have much more a clue about that, than some kind of 'feeling'.



They could have solved that problem by having the bomb arm first when a min. velocity is reached, and all this fuss would not have aroused at all.

Which would be a changing, that is as unrealistic as before. Why should we spend energy is such?

RSS-Martin
12-27-2010, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by EJGrOst_Caspar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

But I got a feeling this new setting has more something to do with preventing spawnkillers from dropping their bomb on the ground, than realism,



Fuse arming was introduced by the various nations to prevent accidents, yes. Generally, preventing 'spawnkillers' IS more realistic!
So this is more realistic AND good for the gameplay. Heureka!



as normally a bomb casing skipping or bouncing along a surface should have no effect to the arming procedure at all.



You seem to be pretty sure about that.
But I doubt, you have much more a clue about that, than some kind of 'feeling'.



They could have solved that problem by having the bomb arm first when a min. velocity is reached, and all this fuss would not have aroused at all.

Which would be a changing, that is as unrealistic as before. Why should we spend energy is such? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes o.k forget my remarks......I appricate your work, but your reply to the bomb arming is not satisfying. How many of these bombs have you seen up close? I just love it that on hand of a one or two remarks some one thinks they know about someones background and what they might or might not know.....one of the few things I really love about the internet.
I call the momentary setting fantasy, as at the moment the bomb casing is being set equal to the detonator.....but what ever..........
Just because spawnkilling nut jobs are curbed to say then that is then realistic is a real argument.....guess next when the spawnkillers decide to use the various guns of a bomber to shoot planes on the ground, and as reaction to that, turning off the guns until the aircraft has left the ground, and then declare that as reallistic too?

Which would be a changing, that is as unrealistic as before. Why should we spend energy is such?
That reveals a lot. O.k. so the sim is leaving the track to depict as real as possible WWII flying, and is following developers wims.
Then one can only hope that your type are then not allowed to fiddel around with SOW.

Schön zu sehen das die Sesselfurzer-Experten alles besser wissen, wer braucht schon Tatsachen, wenn irgend eine Nase hinterm Bildschirm, einfach mal so aus dem blauen was behaupten kann, ohne Belege. Bin sicher so könnt ihr bald fliegende Schweine auch erklären. Bei so einer Antwort kann man nur sagen setzen sechs!

JtD
12-27-2010, 05:26 AM
Martin, where are your facts, I am all ears.

A test report on how detonator vanes or the timer clockwork were immune to impact would suffice.

M_Gunz
12-27-2010, 05:42 AM
How is it leaving realism to have the bombs require the time they really did to arm as they did when before they did not require such time?

You have the fuse with contact plunger up front and beanie-propeller driving the arming mechanism. You drop them 30+m to water and they are armed before the skip which ... does that start the fuse or does hit the ship start the fuse? Before it was only when hitting the ship and then zero delay before the code loses the bomb as sunk.

Or was there something other than front contact fuse start? A timed fuse inside? IIRC some big bombs had this, incendiaries.

I know that most if not all explosive cannon shells ingeniously armed by spin and not go off until away from the weapon.

JG52Uther
12-27-2010, 06:18 AM
Hopefully more experienced modders can fix it in the new UP release...

ElAurens
12-27-2010, 07:27 AM
I have yet to see DT provide any documentation for bombs failing to arm if they touch the water before 2 seconds. This is a totally arbitrary solution to a "problem" that did not exist.

And are we taking the sim on some glorified, make everything as difficult as possible for percieved realism quest?

When the sim was originally coded, Oleg understood that a balance between uber realism and playability is a necessary component of a computer simulation.

We play this sim for enjoyment, in our spare time as a diversion from the cares of life. It should never become a second job.

Oleg got this. It seems the "percieved realism" uber alles crowd does not.

TheGrunch
12-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Oh Gunz, but don't you get it? Heaven forbid that skip-bombing no longer be the easiest bombing activity known in the game! So much so that until 4.09 I had a 100% success rate against ships, right from my very first try copying someone online! And now I'm ticked off, historical provenance of the fusing or not! DT are just a bunch of scummy modders! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Jeez, Uther, if skip-bombing was even mildly realistic, you'd have to deal with a sea that isn't a perfect mill-pond 100% of the time, so you'd be worrying about whether the bomb landed on the crest of a wave or in a trough. You'd have to worry about bombs that no longer have a 100% success rate even under their ideal drop conditions. There are a whole host of things that are wrong with the difficulty of skip bombing in the game already (particularly skip-bombing on land!).
To whine about a minor change that was made based upon the way that bombs are actually constructed is a bit rich, even if I do agree that there should be some chance of the bomb continuing to arm as long as it doesn't hit the target before the two seconds is up, and that the skips off the water shouldn't always stop the arming process.
If the arming process was so short and delay fuses so reliable that such low-level bombing was perfectly possible, why do parafrag bombs even exist?

DKoor
12-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
if skip-bombing was even mildly realistic

I concur with the much of your post, this is actually a quantum leap in realism compared how it used to be.

Check this out;
http://www.filefactory.com/fil...111bombkill_402.ntrk (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b484gfe/n/kunail2_he111bombkill_402.ntrk)
...this is actually me flying IL-2 and BnZ-ing a He-111, I released the bombs with 10sec delay on that bomber in mid air.
One bomb caught it, and after 10sec He-111 went BOOOM.
Realism, hell yeah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

This is how it used to be, but no one ever said one word of complaining about that.

M_Gunz
12-27-2010, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
And are we taking the sim on some glorified, make everything as difficult as possible for percieved realism quest?

1) Who is this "we" that is taking the sim anywhere? And with Oleg's blessing no less?

2) "as difficult as possible" unless your name is Fruitbat or some few others that don't seem to have any big problem skip bombing. It leaves me wondering who IRL had such a good record even in practice?

The real bombs were not insta-arm so what ground do you stand on to defend the old arcade way? In case you missed it, TD is not finished patching yet.

Aviar
12-27-2010, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
You drop them 30+m to water and they are armed before the skip which ... does that start the fuse or does hit the ship start the fuse?

Here is how the 4.10m 2-second Fuse timer works:

The Fuse timer begins when the bomb(s) is released. The bomb(s) must drop for 2 full seconds without coming into contact with anything before it can arm. If the bomb(s) touches anything (water, ground, the target itself, etc.) before those 2 seconds have timed out, it will not arm.

If you also have the in-game Bomb Delay set, that timer will begin when the bomb(s) makes contact with an object (ship, tank, vehicle, structure, etc.). *Note that the Bomb Delay will only come into play if the bomb(s) is actually armed.

If you are skip-bombing over water and you miss the ship, the Bomb Delay timer starts after the bomb(s) stops skipping. If you did not release the bomb(s) at a correct angle and it doesn't skip, the Bomb Delay timer starts at impact.

The same goes for skip-bombing on land. The Bomb Delay timer starts when the bomb(s) stops it's forward momentum. Again, the bomb(s) must be armed before the Bomb Delay starts. Obviously, if the bomb(s) does not arm, it will not detonate.

I think that about covers it all.

Aviar

crucislancer
12-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Last night I found out that there are a few new single player missions. Bf-110G-2 and B-25, both for learning the blind landing system, a couple of I-15 missions, an HS-129 mission, and some for the Fokker XXI, though I wonder if those showed up with 4.09m. Regardless, that’s a nice little bonus, I think. I tried the Bf-110 blind landing last night a couple of times, going to have to try it plenty of times more in order land safely.

M_Gunz
12-27-2010, 12:39 PM
Then the 2 second delay should be up in just under 20m if the plane drops from exactly level flight, more if you're descending and less if you're rising when it drops.

IMO turning the moment after you drop the bomb is a good idea. I've done that since the start just to avoid AA. And they have changed the proximity damage if a 4 or 8 second delay works because before if the bomb sank then it was tough luck.

We don't deal with waves... I wonder when that's going to matter? I wonder when I might have a PC that could track so much, so fast, and not just some random event? People want to know how real a sim is and there's one place they're not.

crucislancer
12-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
So what could you do with the beacons, do they tell you where their position is or something? How could you use them in a mission.

The radio thing sound complicated, but I guess it would be neat to make a Pearl Harbor mission where the Japanese planes could tune into Radio Honolulu like they did in the movies...

Once you get used to it, the beacons aren’t too difficult.

The Non-Directional beacons would be used for German, Japanese, and Russian planes, and a couple others as well (B-25, Beaufighter). These planes have the appropriate instruments in order to use those beacons. Tune to the beacon that you want, and use the appropriate instrument to point yourself in the right direction. The beacon will generate a morse code signal every minute, corresponding to the beacon ID, for instance CM. This also shows up on the screen when you select it. When you fly over it, there is a slight increase in noise followed by silence, which means you are right over it and can select your next beacon.

The AM radio stations are used the same way as the Non-Directional Beacons. Tuning into a radio station is possible even if you don’t have the instruments to figure out the direction, but all you are going to do is get entertainment from it.

Other Allied planes, like those from the U.S., use a different system, relaying on the morse code signal rather then an instrument. Those beacons will generate a certain morse signal based on where they are in relation to the plane that’s tuned into the beacon. For instance, if the beacon is located at 330 degrees from the plane, and that particular beacon’s morse code signal for 330 degrees is “Y”, then the morse code for “Y” will be heard. There are two types of these, one for carriers, and one for land based airfields.

And then there’s the blind landing system. I haven’t tried the Allied system, but I played around with the German one last night. It uses tones and the instruments in order to guide the plane in. Once you get a to a certain distance from the airfield, a short series of tones sounds so you can begin your decent. When you are almost there, more tones sound and a light comes on in the instrument.

All in all, it’s a lot of fun to figure it all out.

DKoor
01-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Wow... I figured something up today, pleasure discovery...
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/re2000_view.jpg
...it was first that I saw new command, "landing lights" and second... when I strafed the locomotive, it exploded after a few long bursts, but to my amazement it wasn't that usual black "pooof" (I think it used to be like that), but instead it was fountain of white vapour and smoke, really nice, check out the pic.
Also can't seem to remember wind carrying the smoke this way...

You guys are welcome to correct me maybe I'm wrong and this was in previous game versions (but I haven't noticed it really). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Yeah... game is stock 410, of course.

VW-IceFire
01-11-2011, 06:18 PM
That's all new!

I do a lot of train busting and it is new in 4.10.