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hamrtime
08-07-2006, 06:52 PM
I know they have somthing to do with the engine, but other than that I don't know. somone help?

FritzGryphon
08-07-2006, 07:10 PM
Something about regulating the power to the spark plugs.

Practically, you don't have to do anything with them. Turning off 1 magneto will reduce power slightly. Turning off both will stop the engine.

VW-IceFire
08-07-2006, 07:21 PM
Basically they make power by spinning magnets if I'm not totally off base. Most aircraft have two magnetos...I think thats per engine. Redundancy sake.

I understand that real warbirds...you start the engine, get them running, and then run them up at full power checking both magnetos before getting going.

p-11.cAce
08-07-2006, 07:22 PM
The mags generate the electricity which fires the spark plugs. Due to their potential for failure, and the obvious reesult of said failure, aircraft generally have 2 of them.

Snow_Wolf_
08-07-2006, 07:37 PM
A magneto is a combination of a low voltage alternating current generator and a high voltage coil and distributor. The magneto serves the same ignition purposes on aircraft as the battery/alternator and the high voltage coil and distributor serves on a car.

An aircraft magneto is driven mechanically by the engine and it changes mechanical energy into electrical energy. Operating on the principle of electromagnetic induction, it generates its own primary current and therefore needs no outside source of electrical power such as a battery or generator/alternator. The magneto generates its own low voltage current to energize the ignition coil, which is inside the magneto. The magneto€s ignition coil transforms (by electromagnetic induction) the low voltage current to high voltage current. The distributor in the magneto picks up the high voltage current from the coil and delivers it through the coil to the spark plugs at the proper time to ignite the fuel-air mixture in the engine combustion chamber. The delivery of current to each spark plug is timed according to the firing order of the engine.

A sound working knowledge and understanding of the fundamental principles of magnetism, electricity and electromagnetic induction are necessary in order to properly understand the operation of the magneto. Stated in simple form, a current of electricity is a movement of electrons; this electricity is in a conductor (usually wire made of copper) in the form of electrons, and that the electricity which is in the wire may be forced to move by magnetism, when this is properly applied. This method of making electrons move by magnetism is known as €˜Electromagnetic Induction€ and was discovered by Michael Faraday in 1831. Faraday€s experiments showed that when a closed loop of copper wire cuts across a magnetic field at right angles, or when a magnetic field cuts across a closed loop of wire at right angles, an electromotive force or pressure (ELF) called voltage is generated in the wire. This voltage forces the electrons in the wire to move, and when the electrons move we have a current of electricity. This wire must be a closed loop in order hat the electrons may return to their source, if not, an ELF will be generated, but no current will flow because the circuit is open and electricity will NOT flow in an open circuit.

It must be understood that these electrons are not consumed. They are moved and returned to their source. The electrons may be used indefinitely without loss. A simple generator which has all that is necessary to generate a current of electricity includes:

€ a magnetic field

€ a closed loop of copper wire

€ movement of the closed loop at right angles across the magnetic field

Direct current (DC) flows only in one direction, whereas alternating current (AC) flows in one direction, stops, then alters it direction, flowing in the opposite direction. This happens because the direction of flow of induced current in a conductor depends on the direction in which the conductor cuts across the magnetic field. When the loop of wire cuts up through the magnetic field, the current flows in one direction, and when it cuts down through the magnetic field, the current flows in the opposite direction.

A rotating magnet type magneto operates on the principle of electromagnetic induction, in this type, the coil windings are wound about an iron core and remain stationary, while the magnetic lines of force, or flux lines as they are sometimes called, cut across the stationary windings.



To understand how magnetos work, we must first learn a little about induced voltage. If you had a means of measuring small amounts of current, you take a length of wire and attach it to both terminals on the meter. By passing a magnet by the wire, you'd find the meter detects a current going through the wire. You also would find that the faster you pass the magnet, the higher the output is. Conversely, if you pass a current through a wire, it will set up a magnetic field (the principle at work in those electromagnets seen in junkyards, etc) these concepts are the basis for magnetos, generators and alternators. Two principal electrical circuits are used inside a magneto: the primary and the secondary. The primary circuit is used to create a useful voltage and the secondary takes that voltage, multiplies it and sends it on to the spark plug leads.



In the primary circuit, a rotating magnet, driven by engine power induces a current into a set of windings called the primary windings. They are, typically, 180 to 200 wraps of copper wire insulated by an enamel coating. As this magnet rotates past a given point, the levels of magnetic influence vary, causing the levels of magnetic field surrounding the windings to increase and decrease rapidly. This sets up a current within the primary windings that also makes the primary windings magnetic. But the voltage isn't up to where we want it yet. As when own like poles of magnets repel one another, something of a standoff exists between the magnetic field created inside the windings and the magnetic field that initially started the current flowing. Each 'pushes' the opposite direction.

At a certain point, this opposing force builds to a maximum value the manufacturer has determined during the design of the magneto. When this magnetic disagreement reaches its highest level, a switch ( the breaker points) opens, causing the current in the primary windings to stop and its magnetic field to collapse suddenly. Imagine letting go of the rope during a tug-of-war contest. A very rapid change in magnetic influence occurs across the primary winding's wires in an incredibly short amount of time boosting voltage output to high levels. Remember that the rate at which the magnetism changes across a wire is what determines how much current will be produced. Wrapped around the primary windings are thousands of wraps of a very fine wire laid in to take advantage of the magnetic field generated by the primary winding voltage. These primary and secondary windings are in one assembly called the coil. Because there is so much wire exposed to the powerful magnetic field created by the primary windings, a much higher-voltage current is generated and sent down the line, where it crosses a set of heavy contacts (the distributor) and then passes through the ignition harness to each spark plug. Because of the nature of a rotating magnet, a magneto produces its electricity in pulses of extremely short duration, which means we have to connect our circuit to the correct spark plug at the same time the short-duration, high-voltage impulse leaves the secondary windings. To do this, the breaker points must be timed properly to take advantage of the magnet position in relation to primary windings (this is called the 'E gap').

In addition, the distributor switch must be properly aligned with the correct spark plug lead, so the flow coming from the secondary windings will go to the proper spark plug. The breaker points are timed to the rotating magnet by means of a cam, which allows them to remain closed until the precise moment they can be opened to interrupt the current going through the primary windings. Because electricity is flowing through the points when they open, arcing will occur, which will damage the points in short order if not prevented. To do this, a capacitor is placed in parallel with the points. Since the capacitor has an initially higher resistance than the low-resistance points, no electricity flows into it. However, when the points begin opening and resistance between the points increase, the electricity selects the easier path through the capacitor. Just as the capacitor is filled, the electrical movement into it stops, but the points are now too far apart for arcing to occur. Also mechanically linked to the engine and breaker point cam is the distributor. Nothing more than a rotating switch with electricity coming in the center, the distributor is designed to have a closed circuit to a different spark plug each time the breaker points open.
To produce even a minimal amount of spark from a magneto, a sufficient amount of rotational movement is necessary to get the magnet inside the magneto to produce enough usable current. Since the cranking speed of an airplane starter is not enough to do the trick, manufacturers have added features to both delay (******) the timing, to prevent "kickback" due to ignition of the mixture before the piston reaches top dead center, and to make the magneto put out some sort of spark at low rotational speeds. As these features are used only for starting, aircraft engines may have one or both magnetos equipped with them. The most common of these is an impulse coupling, which uses a spring and flyweight design to hold the magneto back a bit during starting and then "kick" it at a higher speed to provide the necessary speed for spark. Impulse couplings produce the distinctive "clank clank" sound you hear if you pull your propeller through by hand. Not only does the impulse coupling "snap" the magneto to produce a greater voltage, it also ******s the timing during start. When the engine starts, the flyweights pull outwards and enable normal operation

Spark Advance

Since a measurable amount of time is required to complete the burning process after it has been started in the cylinder, efficient engine operation necessitates that the fuel-air mixture in each cylinder be ignited before the piston has reached top center, just prior to the beginning of the power stroke. The timing of the discharge of the igniting spark is called 'spark advance' and it is measured in terms of degrees of crankshaft rotation. Spark advance is a basic characteristic of an engine that must be decided upon early during the development of the engine. Spark advance is always a compromise, usually between freedom from detonation at high-power engine operation and best fuel economy when cruising at low-power engine operation.

The combustion flame front that radiates out from each spark plug within the cylinder when the plug is fired advances at a rate of about 35 feet per second when combustion begins. This speed increases to a maximum of roughly 150 feet per second, then slows as the combustion process nears completion. Under ideal conditions, the rate of burning should be such that the maximum pressure due to the expansion of the gases by the heat of burning will be reached just after the piston leaves the top-center position. The pressure due to expansion will then continue to force the piston down in the cylinder through the length of the stroke and end as the stroke is completed.

In practice, the spark advance used at high-power settings is determined by running detonation tests on an engine with varying degrees of spark advance, usually at take-off power and rpm. From these tests is selected the degree of spark advance that provides engine operation free from detonation at specified conditions of cylinder temperature and carburetor air temperature and at take-off fuel-air ratios down to about 10% below the specified value. This degree of detonation margin is used to allow for engine deterioration during the normal life of the engine between overhauls. At the low and intermediate powers used for cruise, most engines generally are not near their detonation limits.

Bearcat99
08-07-2006, 08:10 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Magslee.PNG (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499519/)

Uhhh try to make the world safe for Mutant kind?


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif (Sorry I couldnt resist....)

Stackhouse25th
08-07-2006, 08:23 PM
if you ever dont know something do this:

www.google.com (http://www.google.com)

then type in your search say "magnetos".

It then displays magneto information. Also, if you want to find a good encylopedia source, type into google "Magnetos Wiki". that will give just as good if not the best information as to the operation etc

skarden
08-07-2006, 08:31 PM
yeah google is great for that kind of stuff for sure but in this case i think snow wolf pretty much covered it( too much for me,it's gunna take a few reads to get it all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif)

Good post snow wolf.

Divine-Wind
08-07-2006, 08:37 PM
I need 50 aspirin after reading Snow Wolf's information. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


Originally posted by Bearcat99:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Magslee.PNG (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499519/)

Uhhh try to make the world safe for Mutant kind?


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif (Sorry I couldnt resist....)
Bearcat for the win! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Doolittle81
08-07-2006, 09:25 PM
Question: Why don't cars have magneto's? OR...Why don't aircraft have batteries?

Haigotron
08-07-2006, 09:50 PM
I understand that real warbirds...you start the engine, get them running, and then run them up at full power checking both magnetos before getting going.

will this be emulated in BOB? !


OH BTW, Galland for president of the world

Esel1964
08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Cars used to have magnetos ,i.e. Ford model T.

When you kick-start a motorcycle,you're spinning a magneto to provide spark.

Magnetos aren't used in cars,because for the wattage/amperage needed in modern cars,alternators are more practical.

mortoma1958
08-07-2006, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Basically they make power by spinning magnets if I'm not totally off base. Most aircraft have two magnetos...I think thats per engine. Redundancy sake.

I understand that real warbirds...you start the engine, get them running, and then run them up at full power checking both magnetos before getting going. You are correct but it's not just warbirds but also most modern day GA aircraft with reciprocating gas engines use the same technique. You check both magnetos separately, looking for a slight but not severe RPM drop, then you switch back to both magnetos before takeoff.

Also since it has not been mentioned yet, the reason most gas recip engined planes have two mags is because most of these planes have two spark plugs per cylinder, unlike most ground based vehicles like cars and motorcycles. If one magneto goes out, the other magneto runs the other set of spark plugs since the engine will still run with only one spark plug firing per cylinder. Just a little less power, which explains the slight RPM loss you see during the aforementioned engine "runup" check before takeoff.

Targ
08-07-2006, 11:15 PM
Aircraft do have batteries.

StellarRat
08-07-2006, 11:18 PM
One other important point: The magneto circuit is isolated from the rest of the electrical system in the plane. That way if something goes wrong with the electrical system your engine will keep running. Unlike a car where if the alternator dies your car will eventually quit running when the battery runs out of juice.

mortoma1958
08-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Targ:
Aircraft do have batteries. Not most WWII era aircraft!! Most modern day ones do but only so the engine can be started without hand propping or use of ground based engine spinning equipment, like used on many of the WWII planes.
The I-16 is an example of a plane that was started by specialized, motorized engine spinner. There were also starters on many WWII birds that were like some kind of explosive cartidge, similar to a shotgun shell. Firing one would spin the engine a few turns, just long enough to get it to fire on some cylinders.

mortoma1958
08-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by StellarRat:
One other important point: The magneto circuit is isolated from the rest of the electrical system in the plane. That way if something goes wrong with the electrical system your engine will keep running. Unlike a car where if the alternator dies your car will eventually quit running when the battery runs out of juice. Exactly correct sir....

fordfan25
08-07-2006, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by hamrtime:
I know they have somthing to do with the engine, but other than that I don't know. somone help? Thay fight the X-men right?

Targ
08-07-2006, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Targ:
Aircraft do have batteries. Not most WWII era aircraft!! Most modern day ones do but only so the engine can be started without hand propping or use of ground based engine spinning equipment, like used on many of the WWII planes.
The I-16 is an example of a plane that was started by specialized, motorized engine spinner. There were also starters on many WWII birds that were like some kind of explosive cartidge, similar to a shotgun shell. Firing one would spin the engine a few turns, just long enough to get it to fire on some cylinders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DC3 and c47 have batteries as well as the dc-6. Be tough to start a 747 on batteries though as the APU is for that.
Every aiplane I have seen has batteries.

DmdSeeker
08-08-2006, 01:30 AM
Great reply; Snow Wolf

luftluuver
08-08-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Basically they make power by spinning magnets if I'm not totally off base. Most aircraft have two magnetos...I think thats per engine. Redundancy sake. Not only for redundancy sake but also because of the time it would take the flame front to travel across a 6"(150mm) bore.

Yes mortoma, the Sabre used cartridge starters. Some jet old engines also used cartridge starters.

Sergio_101
08-08-2006, 03:31 AM
Yes, also for flame travel, there is a pronounced
RPM drop during a "mag check". A mag check involves
shutting off one mag at a set RPM and noting the
RPM drop and listening for misfires.

Almost all airworthy engines have two plugs per cylinder.
The primary reason is redundancy.

Most engines will have mags running paralell
so one failing will not stop the engine.

There are a hundred variations of the idea.
Some engines have more than two mags.

All P&W R-4360s have either 7 mags or 4 mags!
R-4360 with 7 mags are high voltage mags.
R-4360 with 4 mags are low voltage (low tension) mags with "boosters"
at each spark plug. (boosters are small ignition coils).

R-2800s have two mags and seperate distributers.
But both mags are on the same drive in a layer cake fashion.
Late C series engines went to a low tension mag.

Most engines have two independant mags with integrated
distributers.

Some magnetoes have a battery exciter for starting.

As I said, a hundred variations.

Sergio

Taylortony
08-08-2006, 12:34 PM
Ok to clear a few points up, Most Aircraft have a battery......... period, this is not to do with starting the engine, you could if you wanted swing it or use a handcrank, obviously it is an advantage to use an electric starter and indeed most do. the reason you have a battery is to power the likes of electric flaps the radios ( main reason) lights etc........ this is charged from the Alternator of which you in the majority have one per engine, now incase the alternator fails the battery must be able to produce sufficent power for a given period of time to power essential services, ie flaps if electric, gear if electric and the radios, (minimum units)and fuel pumps again if needed.

As said the Magneto is a stand alone system that will allow the engine to run even if you take the battery out and throw it overboard, you have 2 for redundancy and as said you have 2 spark plugs per cylinder on all aircraft engines. on a typical flat four the mags will proved sparks to the bottom plugs on one bank of cylinders and the top ones on the other, the reasoning is the lower plugs tend to foul with lead, so by having mags do 1/2 the cylinders if you get bad fouling it negates one mag being lost on all cyls, Ie if the top plugs were powered by one mag and that failed then if any plugs fouled on the other you would be in deep poo......................

as said their are various systems, booster coils, shower of spark, vibrators and impulse couplings, most of these are simply to aid starting as when you are cranking the engine the spark for ignition is small, by using the above you up the spark size on cranking allowing the engine to start....

mortoma1958
08-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
Ok to clear a few points up, Most Aircraft have a battery......... period, this is not to do with starting the engine, you could if you wanted swing it or use a handcrank, obviously it is an advantage to use an electric starter and indeed most do. the reason you have a battery is to power the likes of electric flaps the radios ( main reason) lights etc........ this is charged from the Alternator of which you in the majority have one per engine, now incase the alternator fails the battery must be able to produce sufficent power for a given period of time to power essential services, ie flaps if electric, gear if electric and the radios, (minimum units)and fuel pumps again if needed.

As said the Magneto is a stand alone system that will allow the engine to run even if you take the battery out and throw it overboard, you have 2 for redundancy and as said you have 2 spark plugs per cylinder on all aircraft engines. on a typical flat four the mags will proved sparks to the bottom plugs on one bank of cylinders and the top ones on the other, the reasoning is the lower plugs tend to foul with lead, so by having mags do 1/2 the cylinders if you get bad fouling it negates one mag being lost on all cyls, Ie if the top plugs were powered by one mag and that failed then if any plugs fouled on the other you would be in deep poo......................

as said their are various systems, booster coils, shower of spark, vibrators and impulse couplings, most of these are simply to aid starting as when you are cranking the engine the spark for ignition is small, by using the above you up the spark size on cranking allowing the engine to start.... I disagree, it has just as much to do with starting the engines as it does to run any stupid radio or accessory. And how many modern GA aircraft have handcrank capability?? Almost none of them!! And you would want ot try and hand prop most of them either!!
If I could not have started my training aircraft with an electric starter, I'd probably would not have even taken up the hobby of flying at all!!!
It would have been just too much of a pain in the arse.

Snow_Wolf_
08-10-2006, 11:19 PM
lol not touching this topic again even if i got a 10foot pull

...there is a battry ignition system but that what some early aircraft use ...... most of today aircraft use either the high tension systems or the low tension systems .....

Treetop64
08-10-2006, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
Great reply; Snow Wolf

Yeah. I think we're all experts in Ohm's Law after reading that piece.

Taylortony
08-11-2006, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
Ok to clear a few points up, Most Aircraft have a battery......... period, this is not to do with starting the engine, you could if you wanted swing it or use a handcrank, obviously it is an advantage to use an electric starter and indeed most do. the reason you have a battery is to power the likes of electric flaps the radios ( main reason) lights etc........ this is charged from the Alternator of which you in the majority have one per engine, now incase the alternator fails the battery must be able to produce sufficent power for a given period of time to power essential services, ie flaps if electric, gear if electric and the radios, (minimum units)and fuel pumps again if needed.

As said the Magneto is a stand alone system that will allow the engine to run even if you take the battery out and throw it overboard, you have 2 for redundancy and as said you have 2 spark plugs per cylinder on all aircraft engines. on a typical flat four the mags will proved sparks to the bottom plugs on one bank of cylinders and the top ones on the other, the reasoning is the lower plugs tend to foul with lead, so by having mags do 1/2 the cylinders if you get bad fouling it negates one mag being lost on all cyls, Ie if the top plugs were powered by one mag and that failed then if any plugs fouled on the other you would be in deep poo......................

as said their are various systems, booster coils, shower of spark, vibrators and impulse couplings, most of these are simply to aid starting as when you are cranking the engine the spark for ignition is small, by using the above you up the spark size on cranking allowing the engine to start.... I disagree, it has just as much to do with starting the engines as it does to run any stupid radio or accessory. And how many modern GA aircraft have handcrank capability?? Almost none of them!! And you would want ot try and hand prop most of them either!!
If I could not have started my training aircraft with an electric starter, I'd probably would not have even taken up the hobby of flying at all!!!
It would have been just too much of a pain in the arse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Early C150 had a hand pull cable, several older types need swinging, hell I won't even mention Coffman starters to you, but I was not just referring to GA aircraft..........

Suppose the 30 years as a Licenced Aircraft Engineer, Chief Engineer and Nominated Engineer, servicing, maintaining and rebuilding piston aircraft, airliners, jets, helicopters, warbirds does give me a little more background on the subject , but i could be wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Akronnick
08-11-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Targ:
Aircraft do have batteries. Not most WWII era aircraft!! Most modern day ones do but only so the engine can be started without hand propping or use of ground based engine spinning equipment, like used on many of the WWII planes.
The I-16 is an example of a plane that was started by specialized, motorized engine spinner. There were also starters on many WWII birds that were like some kind of explosive cartidge, similar to a shotgun shell. Firing one would spin the engine a few turns, just long enough to get it to fire on some cylinders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it has a radio, it has a battery, but in aircraft, the battery does not supply current to the spark plugs, only electical accessories.

fighter_966
08-11-2006, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Targ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma1958:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Targ:
Aircraft do have batteries. Not most WWII era aircraft!! Most modern day ones do but only so the engine can be started without hand propping or use of ground based engine spinning equipment, like used on many of the WWII planes.
The I-16 is an example of a plane that was started by specialized, motorized engine spinner. There were also starters on many WWII birds that were like some kind of explosive cartidge, similar to a shotgun shell. Firing one would spin the engine a few turns, just long enough to get it to fire on some cylinders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DC3 and c47 have batteries as well as the dc-6. Be tough to start a 747 on batteries though as the APU is for that.
Every aiplane I have seen has batteries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bf109 had mechanized starter not battery it was
used by two men via crank...so?

Top_Gun_1_0_1
08-11-2006, 03:47 PM
can anyone please provide an illustration of how magneto functions on an aircraft engine?

T.Y.

Buster_Dee
08-11-2006, 04:08 PM
I was flying a Cessna 152 that lost the electrical system. I can state with certainty that the mags could have cared less http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sergio_101
08-11-2006, 04:19 PM
Planes that start by APU still normally
use an APU that's started by battery....

Even mags that have battery powered exciters
use no battery power for normal operation.

It is a rare thing to find a plane of any era
that lacks a battery of some sort.

The Wright flyer had a battery for ignition.

Sergio

Taylortony
08-11-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
Planes that start by APU still normally
use an APU that's started by battery....

Even mags that have battery powered exciters
use no battery power for normal operation.

It is a rare thing to find a plane of any era
that lacks a battery of some sort.

The Wright flyer had a battery for ignition.

Sergio


Chinook uses a Hydraulic motor to start the engines and the APU, you pump a reservoir up by hand to 3000 psi, this turns a hydraulic starter on the APU to start it, then converts into a pump driven off the APU to turn the engines over......... still needs a battery for the HEIU though.............



Bf109 had mechanized starter not battery it was
used by two men via crank...so?


still had a battery in it.



TOP GUN THIS SHOULD HELP YOU

http://selair.selkirk.bc.ca/systems1/Engines/Aircraft%20Magneto%20systems.html

http://www.sacskyranch.com/aircraft_magneto_troubleshooting.htm

StellarRat
08-11-2006, 10:04 PM
Mostly they try to defeat X-Men and allow mutants to dominate the world.