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Acunnon
05-25-2006, 12:32 AM

J_Weaver
05-25-2006, 09:40 AM
I saw that too. Interesting. Most of these modern firearms don't interest me in the least. But I guess if my butt was on the line I'd take what ever does the job best.

Celeon999
05-25-2006, 10:26 AM
Well, ive voted for other.

Never write off new innovations like my fav assault rifle HK G-11 prototype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G11) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Maybe the idea behind it comes back one day.

The only problem with that weapon was and propably still is that it is too much ahead of our time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Show me an assault rifle that can fire 35 rounds per SECOND ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

cpt_Alex2006
05-25-2006, 10:52 AM
I always loved the UZI simplicity, SA80 is good, but hey you wouldnt want to club someone with it if it jammed. Tried and tested g36/colt commando goodness.

Acunnon
05-25-2006, 03:18 PM
The more I think about it for an assault rifle I would have to pick a standard layout but I have to pick other for my favorite smg FN P90 (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_p90tr.htm)

Goose_Green
05-25-2006, 03:26 PM
I have used the L85A1 and A2 versions (SA80) in the past in various combat scenarios and I especially like this rifle in FIBUA (Fighting In Built Up Areas) or as we like to call it FISH (Fighting In Someone's House). The rifle is shorter than the generic M16 designs and is far better for urban roles than open field engagements due to it's compact size, unless you are using the SUSAT optic sight which is rather good for longer range engagements.

Although being in the Armoured Corps we are not scaled for the SUSAT sight so we have to make up with the iron sights - but I have used the sight when attached to the LSW (Light Support Weapon) an equivelent principle to the Bren. The sight is very good and easy to use.

The older A1 version used to be a real pain when using it in the Auto mode due to jamming and cycling of the empty cartridges. However, the newer A2 version is far better with improved recoil spring and improvements with cartridge ejection to name but a few.

Even though the magazine is situated behind the trigger it does not pose much of a problem when mag changing - if you're drills are excellent and fluid then the whole process is drama free. To be a good shot the shooter must understand the marksmanship principles and be confident with their skills/abilities and their rifle.

Although the rifle has cost millions in R&D, production and modifications it's still a good rifle - I was more than confident with it when I was in Iraq 3 years ago.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8139/0041a1eu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My personal weapon L85A2 or SA80 when serving in Iraq

The_Silent_O
05-25-2006, 04:02 PM
Like Goose Green here...I can only comment on the Rifles I've been issued throughout this chaos I call a career. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've qualified (or 'Koala-fied' as we called it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif) the M16A1 and the M16A2 only using the iron sights. Athough the A2 had some great improvements on the adjustments for the iron sights.

The thing about the M16 series is that it is very easy to train on. So it fits a wide variance of experience (some of our best shooters in the army were women who had never fired a weapon before).

We are also going to a shorter carbine, the M4, essentially a cut down M16 if you have not seen it. It comes with an optics package as you can see...(haven't fired it and probably never will, getting close to retirement time)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/M-4carbine2.jpg

My best shot was putting my first burst of my M60 Machine gun on a metal target at about 600 meters at night in the desert. First tracer hit, then richoceted straight up into the air! KEWL! (that was about 20 years ago in Ranger school)

Sabastian_Healy
05-25-2006, 04:12 PM
Bulpulp rifles are supposed to be more cleaner in dirty enviorments {ie desert, mud, snow}
Myself i prefer anything that shoots a target to kill it, like a FALA1 with its 7.62 round. Hitting somethign with a 5.56 give the enemy a chance to shoot back if it hits an arm for example {i know a wounding weapon}. A 7.62 round copper jacket will remove the offending apiture {in alike a penny, out like a basketball}

Goose_Green
05-25-2006, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Sabastian_Healy:
Bulpulp rifles are supposed to be more cleaner in dirty enviorments {ie desert, mud, snow}
Myself i prefer anything that shoots a target to kill it, like a FALA1 with its 7.62 round. Hitting somethign with a 5.56 give the enemy a chance to shoot back if it hits an arm for example {i know a wounding weapon}. A 7.62 round copper jacket will remove the offending apiture {in alike a penny, out like a basketball}

Totally agree there about the calibre. Many serving soldiers I spoke with regarding the change over from the SLR or FN FAL to SA80 mentioned the disagreement with the change. They always said that a 7.62 round would drop a target - for good, but with a 5.56 you are inviting the target to get back up!

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/588/fall1a1suit1kg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Celeon999
05-26-2006, 03:59 AM
We are also going to a shorter carbine, the M4, essentially a cut down M16 if you have not seen it. It comes with an optics package as you can see...(haven't fired it and probably never will, getting close to retirement time)



The M4 series could soon be taken out of service http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HK-416 System (http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/hk416.html)

Now that we talk about new stuff. What about an underwater pistol ? Im sure the Navy Seals would love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

HK P11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_P11)

blastomatic1759
05-26-2006, 04:48 AM
i dont find bullpups to very ergonomic, the FAL is extremely ergonomic. now thats a good combat rifle. a nice 308 round and a reliability factor that goes beyond.http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/BoattrashBill/101_0196.jpg

general_kalle
05-26-2006, 07:02 AM
dont know if u know it

P90 (http://www.accuratereloading.com/p90.jpg)

thats what i call alternative magazine placment

cpt_Alex2006
05-26-2006, 10:50 AM
Wasnt out to knock the SA80, but having experience off a self extracting rear on range is a little discerning, (A1 I think).
As cadets we got well used kit, if it was your own it would heve a little extra tlc..

Alex

comanderFritz
05-26-2006, 11:04 AM
personally I like the more traditional firearms (M14, Fal, BAR and others that look like a weapon) I collect guns but I don€t have very many modern rifles, new ones are expensive and you get the same effect plus with ww2 and other guns you get some history with them. if any of you know how to wield and know us firearms laws here is a good link for part kits they still have FN FAL but they wont last new laws says no more barrel/receiver imports (passed last July surprised there still on market) I buy mostly from these guys my mg42 from them was in GOOD condition I have some Mosins on the way we shall see how they turn out

Well here is link directly to part kits they used to have ppsh and stuff but those dried up around Feb.
Main cite
http://www.interordnance.com/

Part kits
http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Scre...gory_Code=Parts+Kits (http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=INTERORDNANCE.com&Category_Code=Parts+Kits)

Acunnon
05-26-2006, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
dont know if u know it

P90 (http://www.accuratereloading.com/p90.jpg)

thats what i call alternative magazine placment

I mentioned it a little earlier, it is a nice weapon. I had the privilege to fire it once its smooth easy to operate low recoil and accurate not just for a smg either. To bad I can not own one even here in the USA there are some weapons civilians can not own. I have an M14 and a Thompson M1928 (navy model with the drum mag and horizontal for grip) but but I can not own a P90.

Sabastian_Healy
05-26-2006, 06:20 PM
{drools at the pics} this ia a cool post!

Acunnon
05-26-2006, 08:36 PM
High Explosive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Nalper/mk47-2.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Nalper/mk47-1.jpg

High Caliber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Nalper/barrett_m82a1.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Nalper/barett_m82a1_m16.jpg

Whermacht02
05-28-2006, 10:14 AM
I dont know too much about guns, only that i like assault rifles. If i had to choose a bullpup design, i will surely go with the Steyr AUG. It is an awesome looking weapon, it even has a scope buil in!!
If someone would come and tell me "pick an assault rifle so you can try it", i would defenitely go either with an AK-47 or the FN FAL. But thats just because i like those rifles...

WilhelmSchulz.
05-28-2006, 11:26 AM
Guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Baldricks_Mate
05-28-2006, 06:27 PM
Interesting opinions! In Aussie such things are well and truly banned, socially and legally. One would be a pariah and suspected of being up to no good for even discussing such weapons.

I have had nothing to do with weapons since my Navy <STRIKE>daze</STRIKE> err days. But the training has never left me...esp rifle drills.

We had SLR's (7.62mm), F1 sub machine guns (not sure of round size now) and 9mm Browning pistols back then. I never had anything to do with bigger than that. I must say I was not that impressed with the SLR. Maybe they were good when they were new but ours were fairly knocked about. The sights sucked too.

Give me a rifle with good sights (steel and/or optics), minimalize the recoil but be a decent calibre, well balanced in the hands...make it reliable and not too prone to jamming with dirt and muck. Not too big but able to be used to semi-snipe with.

Add a sure-fire pistol that can fire anywhere, anyplace, anytime with a good mag capacity.

Oh, and a good jacket...

Celeon999
05-29-2006, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by Acunnon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
dont know if u know it

P90 (http://www.accuratereloading.com/p90.jpg)

thats what i call alternative magazine placment

I mentioned it a little earlier, it is a nice weapon. I had the privilege to fire it once its smooth easy to operate low recoil and accurate not just for a smg either. To bad I can not own one even here in the USA there are some weapons civilians can not own. I have an M14 and a Thompson M1928 (navy model with the drum mag and horizontal for grip) but but I can not own a P90. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The HK G-11 prototype ive mentioned above used exactly the same. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hecker&Koch G-11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G11)

Bobario
05-29-2006, 07:40 AM
Just my 2p worth on the subject. I have fired both the L1A1(SLR) and the SA-80, and MUCH prefer the SLR. IMHO the SA-80 is all back to front, I felt like I had to struggle just to load and then **** the thing. The cocking handle is on the wrong side for gods sake and you have to flip the thing on its right side to load it then to the left side to **** it, or check the breach. This is common in all bullpup designs due to most shooters being right handed. Changing the mag on a proper assault rifle, you can more or less keep the target in your sights the whole time. Change the mag, then **** it with your left hand, unless you have been counting your rounds in which case there would be no need to **** it. Also, after a heavy day on the range, the SA-80 would start to missfire much sooner than I had ever experienced with the SLR. One time, we were told to do a range session in full NBC kit, without preparing our weapons for firing, and the thing began playing up after about 10-15 rounds. Something I have never experienced with the SLR. Admittedly, my SLR was issued to me as a regular soldier (Grenadier Guards) and the SA-80 a few years ago with the TA. As someone said earlier on this thread, its different firing someone elses weapon who may not have given it the same care and attention you would to your own. One time (in the TA) I had to hand my rifle over to someone who was about to do an assault course carrying it and needless to say it came back with the sights covered in mud. However, the shorter length and full auto capability of a bullpup design would be an obvious advantage in a FIBUA environment. As long as you trusted the thing to fire when you pulled the trigger that is. Plus the 5.56mm round is very low powered compared to the 7.62mm NATO round. A clean hit with a 7.62mm round would more than likely kill you through something that I believe is called Hydrostatic Shock, whereas a 5.56mm round is designed from day 1 to case an serious injury. A dead enemy needs only a hole in the ground and a bodybag, an injured soldier need to be casevacced to an aid station, possibly flown home, then treatment and rehabilitation for the rest of his life, places a greater strain on the enemys resources.

Baldricks_Mate
05-29-2006, 06:41 PM
Quote by TommyAtkins1966: I have fired both the L1A1(SLR) and the SA-80, and MUCH prefer the SLR.

Ahh, our weapons were issued on a needs basis and you never had the same one twice. The gunnery PO's were responsible for the armoury and they had their, uhm, funny ways. I can see that a personal issue would be cared for much more...

I agree with the 7.62 being a far superior calibre to 5.56. I cannot fathom the intent to wound. I was taught that when a weapon is used, it is used for deadly force. There is no shades of grey.

What did you think of the SLR at longer ranges, say, 200m+ ?

J_Weaver
05-29-2006, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Baldricks_Mate:
I agree with the 7.62 being a far superior calibre to 5.56. I cannot fathom the intent to wound. I was taught that when a weapon is used, it is used for deadly force. There is no shades of grey.


Same here. I've always been taught that if you have to shoot a man, shoot to kill and put him down. I can under stand the idea behind the assault rifle, but didn't the Germans hit the nail on the head with their 7.92x39mm (I think) followed by the Russians with the 7.62x39. It seem to be that your more likely to put your target down with one round of the above mentioned compared to the 5.56mm round.

Acunnon
05-29-2006, 10:29 PM
is all about trade offs the 762 has more stopping power over the 556 but the 556 will have less recoil. So for example a 762 rifle may kill on the frist round but the 556 will reaquire the target faster for a second shot. besides most people (not counting those hopped up on god knows what) will drop after getting shot weather it a 22 or a 45 or 752 or a 556 or 20mm