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View Full Version : Some really sad news about a former Spitfire pilot



leadbaloon
07-23-2004, 07:54 AM
I don't even really know why I'm posting this, maybe just to get it off my shoulders and somehow disperse my sadness.

Anybody in the UK is probably familiar with the hunt for Mark Hobson, wanted for two double murders in North Yorkshire. He's alleged to have beaten two twin sisters to death and beat and stabbed an elderly couple last weekend. Anyway it turns out one of the elderly couple that were murdered, James Britton, was a Spitfire pilot during WW2. A sad end for a man who was prepared to put his life on the line for generations to come.

leadbaloon
07-23-2004, 07:54 AM
I don't even really know why I'm posting this, maybe just to get it off my shoulders and somehow disperse my sadness.

Anybody in the UK is probably familiar with the hunt for Mark Hobson, wanted for two double murders in North Yorkshire. He's alleged to have beaten two twin sisters to death and beat and stabbed an elderly couple last weekend. Anyway it turns out one of the elderly couple that were murdered, James Britton, was a Spitfire pilot during WW2. A sad end for a man who was prepared to put his life on the line for generations to come.

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-23-2004, 07:58 AM
how an ******* brings away a brave's life.

a salute to this man, and the ones that died beside him- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I hope they dont arrest this Hobson.. i hope he wont surrender to the police-. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

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Hoarmurath
07-23-2004, 08:02 AM
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Monson74
07-23-2004, 08:13 AM
Sux big-time to survive WWII only to get beaten to death by some lunatic - life can be ugly.

S!

Monson


"The Zerst√¬∂rers will form an offensive circle." - G√¬∂ring

Farkitt_
07-23-2004, 08:16 AM
Catch him and bring him 'ere. I'll sort the F**cker out.

Anyone wanna watch? Not for the Squeamish mind you.

http://www.jacksonharrison.co.uk/BoB2/Battle_personnel/Profiles/RAF/images/lacey.jpg

Raiden48
07-23-2004, 08:40 AM
Sad to hear this, but let me say that the death of the man is not worst just because he was a Spitfire pilot, its sad because a human being was killed in such a sad way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Udidtoo
07-23-2004, 09:23 AM
Terrible news LeadBallon, sometimes there just isn't any rhyme or reason.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Indianer.
07-23-2004, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Farkitt_:
Catch him and bring him 'ere. I'll sort the F**cker out.

Anyone wanna watch? Not for the Squeamish mind you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


When you get hold of him give me a call so i can give ya a hand.

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"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

horseback
07-23-2004, 10:35 AM
It happens here, too. Marion Carl was murdered by a housebreaker a few years ago. Unfortunately, some scum see the elderly solely as easy victims. When you're done with him Farkitt (assuming there's something left), send him to the States-we still have the death penalty in most states.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

ASM 1
07-23-2004, 10:38 AM
ah that is sad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

As Monson said... to survive WWII for things to end this way....

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

Owlsphone
07-23-2004, 10:45 AM
horseback, we should bring him to Texas...

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

mortoma
07-23-2004, 11:03 AM
Sad to hear, I just hope they don't try to outlaw knives and fists in the U.K. now. That's their usual answer to problems. Got a problem?? Just pass a new law, it solves everything.

horseback
07-23-2004, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
horseback, we should bring him to Texas...

Vertically challenged since 1984.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, in California, the appeals process would have him dying of old age...

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

FW-Raptor
07-23-2004, 11:07 AM
Salut! To a Brave and Wondeful man!

RIP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Mysticpuma2003
07-23-2004, 11:30 AM
Just so you know, the law is an *** in the UK. If you're scum you get it easy, if you toe the line, you get hammered. I guess that when he's caught, he'll caim mental illness, get sent to Broadmoor, behave well, be seen by a Psychologist and be free and on his way in five years. Then again he could get life and be out in 10!! Now that's a life sentence....nope it's pathetic here in the UK. Life should mean life. Oh well that's got that off my chest..so Salute to a hero who fought for our freedom. Thankyou from all of us who appreciate it, Neil.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

Franzen
07-23-2004, 11:39 AM
Not picking on you guyz or anything but I guess I got another way of thinking. What if he had never faught in the war or even seen a Spitfire, you know, like the twin sisters?

Another thought goes like this. He was an elderly man. I'm assuming the twin sisters were not elderly and therefore died much further from the natural end then what he did.

No disrespect to anyone. I just think a little differently.

Fritz Franzen

ASM 1
07-23-2004, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Not picking on you guyz or anything but I guess I got another way of thinking. What if he had never faught in the war or even seen a Spitfire, you know, like the twin sisters?

Another thought goes like this. He was an elderly man. I'm assuming the twin sisters were not elderly and therefore died much further from the natural end then what he did.

No disrespect to anyone. I just think a little differently.

Fritz Franzen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Point taken - I agree, I guess that leadballon was posting to air his general sadness/distress at the whole matter, I doubt that there was deliberate intent to make the old man seem more important than the two sisters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Maybe, in highlighting the fact that the man was a Spit pilot, leadbaloon thought it lent relevance to the topic of this forum....(Not trying to speak for you by the way mate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) However the whats and whys and what ifs aren't really important are they? I just hope they catch the bastard... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Very sad business indeed...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

Franzen
07-23-2004, 12:41 PM
You are right Andrew. It just seemed to be a little downer to me that we all often do this. I suppose it's got a lot to do with the things I see and am presently seeing this week. It causes me to think deeply about life and it's value.

I remember seeing an episode of the original "Star Trek" series where an alien lifeform was arguing with Kirk as to why it should spare the crew from annilation. The alien critisized the human race for mourning the death of and individual but not so much for the death of the masses.

That has sort of stuck with me since then. I believe the reason is so what simple. Mass death goes beyond our comprehension. It's kind of like looking up on a clear night and estimating the size of the universe. We can relate to the death of an individual.

How this relates to this topic is that it has changed my way of thinking. I have always tried to inspire people to think openly, in their own way, and question everything. What disappointed me about this thread was the "common thought". And with this common thought the lives of the mass almost went unmentioned.

I am in an area where we are expecting heavy flooding in the next few days. There are an estimated 1.5 million poor farmers within a 1 hour drive in any direction from where I sit right now. Their indvidual annual income is less than my coffee budget, much less. Most likely there will be a few less people after the floods.

Seeing and knowing something like this really makes one think and the way we think is most of our current global problems.

I don't blame anyone in this thread or think any thing negatively. On the contrary. Had it not been for the original poster we would never have known of the four lives lost. I highly respect this community and this thread is just one of the reasons.

I simply want to inspire individual thought.

Fritz Franzen

hotspace
07-23-2004, 12:52 PM
The git http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I hope they hang him from the nearest tree annd let him die.............slowly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Hot Space

Monty_Thrud
07-23-2004, 01:04 PM
What a complete bastardd (and other profanites) this Mark Hobson is...after doing your duty for your country, wouldnt it be nice to think you could grow old with your loved ones...without this turdd,(even more profanites...but much worse this time, cause i'm getting even madder)taking your better life away...the only joy i can raise from this sad sad story is him being imprisoned and being some big mean violent inmates biatch for life...there now i feel a little better, but only a little

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NORAD_prowlr_UK
07-23-2004, 01:34 PM
this post will probably be removed but here are my views:
I sympathise with all the families involved but they should put this ****ing bastard on public show and let all people do as they wish (families first of course) to the ******.
they should televise across the world to show what real justice is

NORAD_prowlr_UK
07-23-2004, 01:36 PM
oh BTW i live less than 20 miles from where it took place

PBNA-Boosher
07-23-2004, 01:38 PM
Oh I'd love to make sure this guy dies a slow and painful death. I could just imagine. Stick a knife into his guts, and twist it nice and slowly, then drag the blade down, down, down. Cut his intestines in half, and keep on cutting. Afterward, slash him in every place you can think of. Then, bring on the lemon juice....

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

ASM 1
07-23-2004, 01:40 PM
killing the motherfu*ker would be too easy for him IMHO......

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

NegativeGee
07-23-2004, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NORAD_prowlr_UK:
oh BTW i live less than 20 miles from where it took place<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a million miles away from me either.....

Then again, I'm less than a mile from where that Copper was shot and killed on Boxing day last year.... its always a bit shocking when things like this happen close to home http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

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Obi_Kwiet
07-23-2004, 02:32 PM
Too bad it's in Britton. No chance of the death penelty. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Nexus2005
07-23-2004, 02:34 PM
Such a shocking and tragic end to a brave man, his wife and 2 young girls. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I believe that life does indeed now mean life in the UK (I'm sure it was on the news a while back) and I hope this piece of scum rots in prison for the rest of his.

I despair at some of society nowadays, there was also a WWII veteran who got beaten dreadfully while walking home one night because he was in an area "not for whites." A man who fought to defend his country beaten up for walking in a part of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif.

It does seem to me in this country our laws are being set up to protect the criminals more than the public, there was a story on East Midlands local news today about a man who was the victim of an unprovoked attack in the street and is now paralysed on his right side. The attacker was caught and convicted, but only received 200 hours of community service.

I am very much against the death penalty though, it is barbaric and no system is perfect so there is always a chance of a miscarriage of justice. What can you do if the poor bloke was sentenced to death. Having to live for the rest of your life in prison is ultimately the death penalty, but the criminal has also suffered prison for a very long time.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

[This message was edited by Nexus2005 on Fri July 23 2004 at 01:42 PM.]

VOL_Hans
07-23-2004, 02:37 PM
WHAT!?

If they can't give him the death penalty, they can atleast have an "Accidental discharge" of a firearm with it pointed at his head...
That or maybe a kneecap...or both...

Agreed on that lead, it was a sad end, but I wouldn't be surprised if they said he tried to fight back.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Istreliteli
07-23-2004, 02:46 PM
we should hire quentin tarantino to figure out how to kill this f***, and be entertained at the same time!
...my respects to the fallen who survived messerschmidts and was killed, a true victim of modern society.
PS- UK mates out there, is it true you have somewhat of a problem with copycat clockwork orange inspired crimes?

Ya sizhu i smotru chuzhoya neba iz chuzhoya okna, i ne vidyem ne odnoi znakom iz zvezdiy,ya hodil po vsyem dorogo iz tuda i suda, a vernusya i ne smog, razgredyet sledi, no isli yest karmane pachka sigaret nachat vsye ne tak uzh plocha na syevodnachniy dyen-Victor Tsoi, Kino (Gruppa Krovi)

Nexus2005
07-23-2004, 02:46 PM
This is Britain, the police and prison service don't use firearms and the public cannot buy pistols and most other weapons legally. Quite right too imo, just look at our levels of gun deaths compared to the US.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

necrobaron
07-23-2004, 09:44 PM
Salute to a great man.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

If Mr. Britton had access to a gun, he might still been alive. I wonder how beating deaths in Britain compares with that in the US per capita?

"Not all who wander are lost."

BennyMoore
07-23-2004, 09:46 PM
A British cop told me that when firearms were outlawed, the crime rate rose over two hundred percent. He saw the numbers on paper, on the job. Was there a murder? Now we've got got three!

They still get guns. The good guys don't.

If that Spitfire ace or even those two girls had weapons, perhaps this would not have happened. It certainly could not have made the situation worse, and it almost certainly would have made things better. Then again, the government would probably have imprisoned the innocents for using excessive force. Bah! This is why I am an admitted mysanthrope.

necrobaron
07-23-2004, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
A British cop told me that when firearms were outlawed, the crime rate rose over two hundred percent. He saw the numbers on paper, on the job. Was there a murder? Now we've got got three!

They still get guns. The good guys don't.

If that Spitfire ace or even those two girls had weapons, perhaps this would not have happened. It certainly could not have made the situation worse, and it almost certainly would have made things better. Then again, the government would probably have imprisoned the innocents for using excessive force. Bah! This is why I am an admitted mysanthrope.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa! I realized the anti-gun laws aren't as good as they initially sound and don't necessarily reduce crime rates, contrary to popular belief, but I had no idea the figures were that extreme! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

BennyMoore
07-23-2004, 11:53 PM
Yeah, people who hold Nexus' views piss me off very badly because they perpetuate evil and get people like me killed.

In Australia, the crime rate increase after the gun ban wasn't as dramatic, supposedly only seventy percent or so, but I didn't hear that one first hand.

WTE_Ibis
07-24-2004, 01:33 AM
Yep, that's right,all the bad guys handed their guns in during the enforced buy back period and those bad guys that had legal guns registered them so that the police know where they are. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif The good guys however get hassled by hundreds of police(at night even) checking to make sure that our guns are locked up.What a waste of police manpower.Buys a few votes for the bludgers in power,panders to the do-gooders and does bugger all to prevent gun crime. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

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BennyMoore
07-24-2004, 03:27 AM
You forgot to mention that the bad guys won't be able to be any more guns, because it's not legal to do so! What a perfect solution! And what do honest citizens want with guns, anyway? Horrid nasty things that go bang. Ban them! Commence murdering World War Two veterans and old ladies and young girls!

CHDT
07-24-2004, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I despair at some of society nowadays, there was also a WWII veteran who got beaten dreadfully while walking home one night because he was in an area "not for whites."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I took last summer a few days holidays in London and by curiosity I went in the "Londonistan": what a poor feeling I had there as a "lone white male"!

Since this experience, I regard the concept of "multiculturalism", so praised by our medias and politics, with a much more suspicious mind for the near future of Europe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Franzen
07-24-2004, 05:15 AM
This thread is starting to go in the wrong direction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

CHDT
07-24-2004, 05:36 AM
In French, there's a sentence saying that "God laughs at people crying at consequences but ignoring the causes."

The politic of the ostrich.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But you're right, Franzen, this thread is probably starting in the wrong direction....like a lot of thing these days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[This message was edited by CHDT on Sat July 24 2004 at 04:54 AM.]

Franzen
07-24-2004, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
In French, there's a sentence saying that "God laughs at people crying at consequences but ignoring the causes."

But you're right, Franzen, this thread is probably starting in the wrong direction....like Europe does http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The politic of the ostrich....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, agreed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

leadbaloon
07-24-2004, 07:11 AM
Hi,

I wasn't trying to imply that the life of a former Spitfire pilot is more important than the life of the two girls, or even his wife, when I started this thread. I started it almost immediately after reading the story, and it was a reaction to it really. As I said, I wanted to get it off my back really and thought it would be of interest (probably the wrong word to use in this circumstance) to the community, as the deaths and illnesses of veterans are often reported on the board.

Immediately on posting it I started to question the wisdom in putting it up, as it was obviously going to turn into a virtual lynching.

I think the thread has taken a turn for the worse too.

I don't believe in the death penalty. There are just too many cases like that of Derek Bentley. The Guildford four and the Birmingham six would all have hung (framed for Irish terrorist attacks that they didn't commit). There are lots of miscarriages of justice in this country, just last week the foster father of Billie Jo Jenkins was granted an appeal because the evidence on which he was convicted was so flimsy. He wouldn't be able to make an appeal if he were dead; neither would the women who have been released after (false) accusations that they had suffocated their babies, based on one doctors theory that two kids in one family couldn't die of cot death.

And the Londonistan thing and racist bile that's starting to appear is well out of order. I used to live in Bradford which has a massive Asian community. I've been spat at in the street for being white and know of a couple of cases of white people being beaten up purely for being white. But I also know of lots of cases of Asians being beaten up for being black, being spat at, getting dog sh1t posted through their letterboxes etc. Seperatism and hatred doesn't help anybody. There are wider issues to be addresssed in these cases and while we are busy pointing fingers and blaming each other for the ills in our societies we are taking our eye off the ball. The one thing all these racist attacks have in common is that they are all (pretty much) carried out by, angry, bored young men, often from areas with high unemployment and general poverty. It's a way of getting their kicks, I'd go with the lads from my school to fight with the the lads from other schools in the area, then a couple of weeks later, we'd be going to fight a different set of lads, just from a different town. Often young men just want an excuse to fight, it's a right of passage of a kind, you just need an excuse. I grew out of it, many didn't. They progressed onto the terraces at Bradford City, fighting with supporters of other football clubs and got into racially motivated violence as a kind of sideline. Young asian men aren't really any different on the whole.


Flame away.

Borris the crazy ozzy
07-24-2004, 07:12 AM
i salute him and his mates for defending britain even tho im australian. look on the bright side tho. hes probably enjoying a beer with one of his friends

CHDT
07-24-2004, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I used to live in Bradford which has a massive Asian community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there are now many parts in Europe that have massive foreign communities, but surprisingly there's no similar movement of massive European communities settling down as compact groups, in Asia for instance.

Other difference, the foreign people who come now to Europe (no more as individuals, but as whole communities) treat our countries like some kind of neutral space without identity or history, but in their motherland they keep on the contrary a very strong feeling of their identity (just try to build a church in some countries).

If a "white" keeps his culture in a foreign land, it's colonialism and if it's in his country, it's racism. But if a foreigner keeps his culture in Europe, it's multiculturalism! I definetely don't understand this "double standard", especially from European natives thinking like that, they must suffer from some kind of "ethnomasochism". But I understand the foreigners taking advantage of this situation, because of our open (weak) mind; it's just so simple like that, of course with the ultra-strong argument "you racist" coming immediately to the people just trying to say "hey, I'm here at home" !

Is all this thing good for European "natives"? Honestly, I don't know. I'm rather thinking that someone will have to "pay the bill" in a perhaps not so distant future. In fact, on the subject, I read a commentary in the Guardian of a TV documentary of Channel 4 whose title was "The last white boys": it was not very funny to read that as a European "native", the feeling of being a minority on motherland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Time will tell what happens!

[This message was edited by CHDT on Sat July 24 2004 at 08:34 AM.]

Franzen
07-24-2004, 08:30 AM
Nice post Leadbaloon. You know, something I've always liked about this forum, the only one I even open, is that it does seem like a community of sorts. I like the fact that everyone has an opinion about almost anything and they take the time to share it. This thread is a perfect example.
You read something and was effected by it. You then took the time to post it here. That requires a certain degree of respect and trust you have for this community. I guess I can say it's these sort of posts that make this forum worth participating in. Sure, you get a few that get a little out of hand but for the most part the opinions and discuusions in here are very interesting.
I never once thought you were implying a greater importance on the pilot. I just wanted to remind everyone of the others that suffered the same fate.
This is the right place to post a story such as yours and both your action and your story is appreciated by the majority.
It's nice to know that if we ever want to be listened to, we have a place to go. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
07-24-2004, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I used to live in Bradford which has a massive Asian community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there are now many parts in Europe that have massive foreign communities, but surprisingly there's no similar movement of massive European communities settling down as compact groups, in Asia for instance.

Other difference, the foreign people who come now to Europe (no more as individuals, but as whole communities) treat our countries like some kind of neutral space without identity or history, but in their motherland they keep on the contrary a very strong feeling of their identity (just try to build a church in some countries).

If a "white" keeps his culture in a foreign land, it's colonialism. If a foreigner keeps his culture in Europe, it's multiculturalism! I definetely don't understand this "double standard", especially from European natives thinking like that, they must suffer from some kind of "ethnomasochism". But I understand the foreigners taking advantage of this situation, because of our open (weak) mind; it's just so simple like that, of course with the ultra-strong argument "you racist" coming immediately to the people just trying to say "hey, I'm here at home" !

Is all this thing good for European "natives"? Honestly, I don't know. I'm rather thinking that someone will have to "pay the bill" in a perhaps not so distant future. In fact, on the subject, I read a commentary in the Guardian of a TV documentary of Channel 4 whose title was "The last white boys": it was not very funny to read that as a European "native", the feeling of being a minority on motherland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[This message was edited by CHDT on Sat July 24 2004 at 07:29 AM.]

[This message was edited by CHDT on Sat July 24 2004 at 07:31 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right. I am somewhat fortunate that I am German but born in Canada. My "born in Germany" friends cannot express any displeasure with any subject to do with anyone that isn't German without the risk of being called "Nazi". Luckily for me I have the freedom to express my opinions(not radical)on the same topic without being lynched. I'm sti......

AHHHHHHHH! You got me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

So, what do you think of the new patch? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

CHDT
07-24-2004, 08:50 AM
Fritz, you understood me perfectly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To discuss of these questions is just like dancing on a mine field, with P.C. snipers all around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I laughs now, but in fact, it's very sad. Sad and probably dangerous, not for us perhaps, but probably for our children http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


P.S. Btw, patch is great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Franzen
07-24-2004, 09:01 AM
My collegue and I were staying in Beijing in a five star. Before leaving his room he would carefully hide any valuables he had. I told him he was too nervous and didn't have to worry, he should trust people a little more. He said it wasn't a matter of trust. He said that someone young and honest can be changed negatively by an opportunity. Once they make the mistake and take something they can never fully go back.
I understood his logic and carry it with me today.
I don't blame the immigrants but in fact blame ourselves. In our quest for righteousness we are creating negative opportunities.

Fritz Franzen

leadbaloon
07-25-2004, 04:30 AM
CDHT,

While I'm really reluctant to ressurect this thread and risk opening the proverbial can of worms, I want you to know that whilst I can't get along with comments about Londonistan, etc. Your post about integration (or lack of), within multicultural societies is something I can understand, and have had first hand experience of. As I said in my post, seperatism and hatred doesn't help anyone, and it cuts both ways.

Believe it or not, when I was studying art at college (shameless plug for my art, innapropriate, but hey http://garethmccorry.co.uk/ ), I did a painting trying to deal with some of the issues you raise, seperatism that comes from the Asian community as well as the whites, my feelings at having stood in the city centre in Bradford and witnessed the first mass book burnings on European soil since the Nazis (following the Ayatollah Kohmeni's issuing of a fatwa on Salman Rushdie, because he said The Satanic Verses offended Islam). The tingle of fear I'd feel when walking past a group of asian lads with Hamas sprayed on the wall behind them. It also documented cases of fascist groups marching in the city, and racist violence perpetrated by the white community. It was called Whoisandwhoisnt. It was an attempt to show that it comes from both sides and both are wrong. The college banned it from the premesis, saying it was racist and inflammatory. Seems it's okay to criticise one group (the white community), but not the other. Inequality is inequality, whichever way you look at it. These issues can and should be addressed, but without pointing fingers and apportioning blame. That just serves to divide.

No hard feelings?

CHDT
07-25-2004, 06:37 AM
Very good post, leadbaloon, it's so rare to be able to discuss of these things with a calm and constructive mind.

I've nothing against progressive and in reasonable number assimilation of individuals even from much different cultures or origins, but I don't believe in brutal integration of communities as a whole: for me, multicultural societies don't exist, there are only multiracist societies with separated communities: that's manageable in time of peace and prosperity, I don't think this would be very confortable if the global situation gets worse.

It's like when you are preparing a mayonnaise sauce: you have to mix the different elements with care and in the good proportions. Or you get something that is not eatable, or for a society something that is not viable (just think of the ex-Yugoslavia or Lebanon).

On this subject, I just read an article about the situation in Great Britain where the government tries to leave the communautarism solution to build a new concept called "britannicity".

But there are also positively stupid solutions: like to oblige British imams to speak English, to avoid fundamentalism. As if a fundamentalism imam couldn't speak a perfect Oxford English!

I'm also thinking of Canada government which is thinking of letting Chariah courts operating in Canady, because of the pathologic Occidental fear of being accused of racism against another culture! Of course, "white" culture can be criticized even with the most harsh arguments, this is not racism, but freedom of speech in this case.

You're also right when you wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It was an attempt to show that it comes from both sides and both are wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true, some ethnomasochist people in Occident cannot simply imagine that the bad feeling that racism is can also be forwarded against whites ones by other ethnies.

And yes, when you said that every man on the earth, from any ethnies that you want, can be bad, you broke the unwritten rule "only whites are bad"!

Personnally, I'm tired of being guilty for everything wrong in this world and not able to defend my own culture without being accused.

I respect every culture, but I don't know why I would have to let mine be changed or simply disappear, like the Roman empire to take an historical example.

[This message was edited by CHDT on Sun July 25 2004 at 05:46 AM.]

DaBallz
07-25-2004, 06:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nexus2005:
This is Britain, the police and prison service don't use firearms and the public cannot buy pistols and most other weapons legally. Quite right too imo, just look at our levels of gun deaths compared to the US.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nah, you blokes have reverted to thugs with
knives, clubs, and fists. If you are tough and
can run you can get away with it.

We have a better idea what to do with the usless punk
that Murdered US MARINE General Marion Carl.
Were gonna fry him in the electric chair.
Gun ownership may result in gun death,
but if some 2 bit punk kicks in my door
I'll send him out in a body bag. That's the
kind of gun death i can live with.

Da...

Nexus2005
07-25-2004, 10:29 AM
First off, I would like to say I do not condone racism in any form between any 2 or more groups of people. I was only mentioning the fact that it was racially motivated because I was describing what happened and pointing out the dreadful irony of a man being beaten for walking in a part of his country he fought to defend. We are all human beings, to me, people having different coloured skin is just the same as people having different coloured hair and eyes. We are all different, that's what makes life interesting.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Were gonna fry him in the electric chair.
Gun ownership may result in gun death,
but if some 2 bit punk kicks in my door
I'll send him out in a body bag. That's the
kind of gun death i can live with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you call us thugs. Our system is very far from perfect as I have already said, I know criminals still get guns but we have armed police for that. But, there are far far fewer guns around in Britain than in the US and that alone makes me feel safer. Banning guns is the first step, fighting illegal guns continues. But you can NEVER achieve a society without guns if you don't ban them first.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

[This message was edited by Nexus2005 on Sun July 25 2004 at 11:07 AM.]

CHDT
07-25-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We are all different, that's what makes life interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and we should better try to keep this diversity.

For instance, if I go to Japan, I'm pleased to see there Japanese people.

On the contrary, if I go in a multicultural area, I don't see diversity: I see at first the erosion of the indigene culture (just think of the American natives destiny) and at the second hand a grey and sad mix of various weakened influences.

That's not my idea of diversity, a world like the "Babel Tower" or like the city in "Blade Runner" movie, where everything is the same everywhere.

Another example, what's the most beautiful? Colors cleverly arranged on the pallet of a painter or these colors roughly mixed together and giving this way a single grey color?

Btw, I'm probably stupid, I still don't understand why people praising diversity as a supreme valor (mostly white urban educated occidental people) often forget to defend their own cultural and ethnic specificities. That's perhaps the sign of the decline of a civilisation when people are tired of themselves and ready to let the place to others without saying anything, but ready with their last forces to fight against their own compatriots not happy with the deal!

Nexus2005
07-25-2004, 12:13 PM
There is a big difference between racism culteral erosion. I am concered that the British culture is being changed, and I do believe that the culteres of all nations should be preserved. This is why I think that all immigrants should be able to speak english well (I think they have to take a test now) and perhaps also be educated about our history and culture (I believe they do already have to take citezenship lessons, although this may only be asylum seekers). I welcome the move that has come where immigrants must pledge allegance to the queen and the country because I think it is more likely to make them proud to be British.

BUT I dislike your sentence about different colours, I think a British person that happens to be black but was born here is as British as I am and belongs here as much as I do. In my eyes to say otherwise would be like saying somebody isn't British or doesn't belong because he has blonde hair.

But I really don't think this is what this thread was about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

CHDT
07-25-2004, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is why I think that all immigrants should be able to speak english<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a saying in my country about that: "a cat which barks will never be a dog" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Btw, to take an extreme example, all the 11th September pirates were rather well educated and integrated persons which spoke very probably a much better English than I. So, these integration parameters around language or allegance to the queen are rather weak in front of a strong ethnic conscience. And totally obsolete also in the tomorrow world driven by the shock of the cultures.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think a British person that happens to be black but was born here is as British as I am and belongs here as much as I do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fully agree with you and it's a good thing.

The problem is that this generous idea of tolerance is almost only applied in the "white" Occident. Ask perhaps a white Zimbabwean farmer, born in Africa, if the black Zimbabwean citizen consider him as a Zimbabwean. It's rather "one white, one bullet", as the Mugabe militias sang in the recent political demonstrations.

Other example, even if a white boy is born in Japan and spends years there, he will never be considered as a Japanese one by the Japanese people.

Why is it ok to think like that in Japan? Why is it not ok to think this way in Europe? We are open to people coming from countries which are not open to us the same way. There's no reciprocity and we find that normal. I repeat it, but I can't understand this "double standard" jugement!

And I could also speak of demographic parameters which would describe the whole situation in an even worser way!

I'm really sad to say that but I think times are coming in which kindness will be synonym of weakness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Just think to the Roman empire which failed when the Romans forgot that they were Romans!

Simply said, I don't want to forget who I am, where I come from and I do wish to offer to my children a safe future in a peaceful Europe which would not look like a big Yugoslavija flamed by ethnic chaos.


P.S. Btw, it's cool to discuss of such serious things in a reasonable and respectful way.

Indianer.
07-25-2004, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We have a better idea what to do with the usless punk
that Murdered US MARINE General Marion Carl.
Were gonna fry him in the electric chair.
Gun ownership may result in gun death,
but if some 2 bit punk kicks in my door
I'll send him out in a body bag. That's the
kind of gun death i can live with.

Da...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol...my kind of place.


BTW they caught the guy who is the main suspect in the murders.

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

Aaron_GT
07-25-2004, 02:24 PM
He (victim) lived about 3 or 4 miles up the road from us. Thankfully the prime suspect was caught tonight.

It's quite shocking for us in North Yorkshire as this is 60% of the normal number of murders in England's largest county all in one go.

I hope Hobson is responsible for all 4 as if not then there is still someone at large.

Aaron_GT
07-25-2004, 02:33 PM
CHDT wrote:
" it was not very funny to read that as a European "native", the feeling of being a minority on"

Britain is overwhelmingly white European. It would require a massive shift for this to change, and that is highly unlikely. In fact the UK is likely to end up welcoming increased immigration as the population ages, at the expense, possibly, of some scenes reminiscent of Alf Garnet. But in the UK we are all immigrants and around 50% have some non white ancestry in our families from the last 300 years.

Aaron_GT
07-25-2004, 03:39 PM
BennyMoore wrote:
"A British cop told me that when firearms were outlawed, the crime rate rose over two hundred percent. He saw the numbers on paper, on the job. Was there a murder? Now we've got got three!"

That's not correct. For one thing you can go and look on the Home Office's web site for the figures. No such increase. There have been increases in the rates of some crimes in Home Office figures, but you have to bear in mind that the way figures have been compiled have changed a number of times in the last 10 years, mostly elevating the figures. (My sister used to work for the police on crime databases and still works in the law enforcement area - she could fill in the details). The changes in reporting methods (mostly to harmonise methods across all UK forces) are the reason why the British Crime Survey (BCS) is often a better measure. This has used the same methodology over the last 10 years. This has shown a decrease in overall crime over the last 10 years, but with a rise in violent crime assoiated with alcohol. The UK has a very definite problem with mostly young males engaging in acts of violence on leaving pubs. The level of drinking has increased considerably here in the last 10 years.

Nexus wrote:
"I believe that life does indeed now mean life in the UK (I'm sure it was on the news a while back)"

It always has, but it is complex. Basically a 'tarriff' is set which is the basic period that the lifer will spend in prison. They are then released 'on licence' rather than paroled. At any time the Home Office may recall that person to prison. It's not unknown for lifers to recalled multiple times, and something like 10% of lifers are recalled at one time or another to spend more time in prison without necessarily having committed any other crime. The tarriff can, at the moment, be set to an arbitrary length, although that might get changed due to the European Convention on Human Rights (which is NOT an EU thing).

Taylortony
07-25-2004, 05:22 PM
I hope he rots now they have him,
sad to say UK law will probably see him in a nice cosy prison living the lap of luxury for the next 20 years.

T

Franzen
07-26-2004, 12:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
I hope he rots now they have him,
sad to say UK law will probably see him in a nice cosy prison living the lap of luxury for the next 20 years.

T<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, maybe he'll be in a lap but I don't think it will be luxury. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Fritz Franzen

Capt.England
07-26-2004, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nexus2005:
There is a big difference between racism cultural erosion. I am concered that the British culture is being changed, and I do believe that the culteres of all nations should be preserved. This is why I think that all immigrants should be able to speak english well (I think they have to take a test now) and perhaps also be educated about our history and culture (I believe they do already have to take citezenship lessons, although this may only be asylum seekers). I welcome the move that has come where immigrants must pledge allegance to the queen and the country because I think it is more likely to make them proud to be British.

BUT I dislike your sentence about different colours, I think a British person that happens to be black but was born here is as British as I am and belongs here as much as I do. In my eyes to say otherwise would be like saying somebody isn't British or doesn't belong because he has blonde hair.

But I really don't think this is what this thread was about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

http://www.bobcs.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just my 2 pence worth to say that this is the view of most white people here in Leicestershire. For those of you that don't know, Leicester has got a very high ethnic Hindu community which has helped the city with fabulous Food, cheap gold, and are a very friendly people. The trouble with some people in this country is that most of the racists are made because of unfair rules that give immigrants too much handouts but will not help the poor in this country. This I know because one of the Asian guys I work with has a wife who works for the DHSS and she told me that if I was on social benefits I would not get much in help from the social. If I came "off the boat" (sorry if that offends anyone!) I would get a house if I had a family, a car (that's the truth!!!) and be helped with English lessons, education, and in getting a job. If I was on the dole and was born here, I be lucky if I got any help in keeping my house, a clarting job at Mac worm-burgers or else my benefits would stop, and not much hope of getting any help in paying my debt off from losing my job. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Back on topic, hope the git who killed gets to be the soap boy in the showers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW Nexus2005. You are only about 5 miles from where I live near to Ansty.

Britwhiner No.1

IKG26Redcoat
07-26-2004, 02:36 PM
like someone said earlier, the **** will claim insanity or summat , twist it and b on the street in a few years. i feel for his family,horrible tragic thing to happen. there is just no real protection in this country for the inocent and the elderly are seen as easy marks.
if it was my parents, id spend 20 years, but id get the bastard

There are a lot of people, who say, that bombing can never win a war. Well, my answer to that, is that it has never been tried yet, and we shall see.
Sir Arthur Harris
CinC Bomber Command

Nexus2005
07-26-2004, 02:54 PM
lol Capt.England how did you know I'm from Leicestershire? I actually live near Loughborough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)

[This message was edited by Nexus2005 on Mon July 26 2004 at 05:16 PM.]

Taylortony
07-26-2004, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nexus2005:
lol Capt.England how did know I'm from Leicestershire? I actually live near Loughborough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bobcs.co.uk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

shudder thats within 10 miles of me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif im moving hehehehe

BennyMoore
07-26-2004, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
For one thing you can go and look on the Home Office's web site for the figures. No such increase. There have been increases in the rates of some crimes in Home Office figures, but you have to bear in mind that the way figures have been compiled have changed a number of times in the last 10 years, mostly elevating the figures. (My sister used to work for the police on crime databases and still works in the law enforcement area - she could fill in the details).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blah blah blah! That's what they would love for you to believe - ban guns and crime goes down.

Well, it doesn't, and I have nothing more to say to you. Anyone who does not agree with that most important of facts is an enemy.

Others may find this harsh, but his type are the same who are trying to take my guns away. And that is unforgiveable!

Aaron_GT
07-27-2004, 04:43 AM
Benny Moore wrote:
@Blah blah blah! That's what they would love for you to believe - ban guns and crime goes down.

Well, it doesn't, and I have nothing more to say to you. Anyone who does not agree with that most important of facts is an enemy.

Others may find this harsh, but his type are the same who are trying to take my guns away. And that is unforgiveable!@



Now, where did I say that I thought banning guns reduced crime? You are putting words in my mouth. For the record I don't believe at all that banning guns reduces crime! What I objected to was the use of the ridiculous statement that crime had risen dramatically (200% increase - a tripling!) in the last few years (You didn't say from when, so I assumed 10 years or so).

NorrisMcWhirter
07-27-2004, 06:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Not picking on you guyz or anything but I guess I got another way of thinking. What if he had never faught in the war or even seen a Spitfire, you know, like the twin sisters?

Another thought goes like this. He was an elderly man. I'm assuming the twin sisters were not elderly and therefore died much further from the natural end then what he did.

No disrespect to anyone. I just think a little differently.

Fritz Franzen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're precisely right - all life is precious irrespective of past actions, nationality or race. Of course, there are exceptions and this story is particularly ironic because this man put his life at risk for his own generation and those of the future.

The law is incorrect in Britain at the moment; people should be able to use reasonable force to defend family/property AND sentences should be harsher for all but especially for repeat offenders.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

NorrisMcWhirter
07-27-2004, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If I came "off the boat" (sorry if that offends anyone!) I would get a house if I had a family, a car (that's the truth!!!) and be helped with English lessons, education, and in getting a job. If I was on the dole and was born here, I be lucky if I got any help in keeping my house, a clarting job at Mac worm-burgers or else my benefits would stop, and not much hope of getting any help in paying my debt off from losing my job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you been reading the Daily Mail again ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Last time I heard, the net flow of population was out of the country.

That aside, it's easy to point the finger at people and say that they shouldn't be here/helped out because they have come 'off the boat.' Sure, there is a lot of problems being generated by the influx of people but a *considerable* number of migrants come here and contribute economically by setting up businesses and being successful.

What annoys me more is what is fast becoming the de-facto British standard of being bone idle/sponging of the dole then pointing the finger at the migrants when they actually DO want to come here and WORK to make a better life for themselves.

So, why don't these 'indiginous' people direct some of their national 'pride' into making the country a better place (i.e. by working) rather than making it worse with scrounging and having layabout chav yobs popping out from between their legs at precisely 9 month intervals?

A classic example of the national hyprocrisy is where you see lads (and lad-ettes) walking down the street, clad in England football shirts, swearing and spitting onto the floor every 15 seconds. How can you love your country then spit on it/be abusive to your countrymen? Bizarre.


Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

Aaron_GT
07-27-2004, 08:32 AM
Norris McWhirter wrote:
"What annoys me more is what is fast becoming the de-facto British standard of being bone idle/sponging of the dole then pointing the finger at the migrants when they actually DO want to come here and WORK to make a better life for themselves. "

Indeed - ship the workshy to Olvier Letwin's mythical island, not immigrants. Mind you, I feel bad that we are picking the best of doctors, nurses, etc from developing nations (where they are needed too) just because we don't want to pay what is required to keep nurses trained here in the profession. (Not that all those PPPs help the NHS balance of payments). Those UK residents not working who have become depressed and despondent should be helped to get over that and become useful members of society again. People who don't work because they are -lazy- and who expect state handouts I have little time for. Carrot and stick required.

Aaron_GT
07-27-2004, 08:34 AM
Sorry Ivan - we've gone very offtopic again - I'll stop now.

lkemling
07-27-2004, 09:57 AM
While many states are trying to abolish the death penalty Texas has installed a express lane!!

Capt.England
07-28-2004, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nexus2005:
lol Capt.England how did you know I'm from Leicestershire? I actually live near Loughborough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bobcs.co.uk

[This message was edited by Nexus2005 on Mon July 26 2004 at 05:16 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spotted it in another thread a couple of nights ago! Saw the photos of Quorn from the air. Not spying on you BTW http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Britwhiner No.1

Capt.England
07-28-2004, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If I came "off the boat" (sorry if that offends anyone!) I would get a house if I had a family, a car (that's the truth!!!) and be helped with English lessons, education, and in getting a job. If I was on the dole and was born here, I be lucky if I got any help in keeping my house, a clarting job at Mac worm-burgers or else my benefits would stop, and not much hope of getting any help in paying my debt off from losing my job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you been reading the Daily Mail again ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Last time I heard, the net flow of population was out of the country.

That aside, it's easy to point the finger at people and say that they shouldn't be here/helped out because they have come 'off the boat.' Sure, there is a lot of problems being generated by the influx of people but a *considerable* number of migrants come here and contribute economically by setting up businesses and being successful.

What annoys me more is what is fast becoming the de-facto British standard of being bone idle/sponging of the dole then pointing the finger at the migrants when they actually DO want to come here and WORK to make a better life for themselves.

So, why don't these 'indiginous' people direct some of their national 'pride' into making the country a better place (i.e. by working) rather than making it worse with scrounging and having layabout chav yobs popping out from between their legs at precisely 9 month intervals?

A classic example of the national hyprocrisy is where you see lads (and lad-ettes) walking down the street, clad in England football shirts, swearing and spitting onto the floor every 15 seconds. How can you love your country then spit on it/be abusive to your countrymen? Bizarre.


Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
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: More irreverence :
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: You've seen them... :
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'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree with you Norris! BTW, did you notice what I said about Leicesters Hindu community putting something good into my community in Leicester? As for chavscum, you should see the estate just the other side of the local shopping centre for the biggest concentration of chavs on this planet! I think they must have a cloning plant set up in Beaumont Leys just for making chavs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Britwhiner No.1

Nexus2005
07-28-2004, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Spotted it in another thread a couple of nights ago! Saw the photos of Quorn from the air. Not spying on you BTW <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ohhhhh yeh, forgot I posted that lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.bobcs.co.uk/sig/Nexussig/sig2.jpg (http://www.bobcs.co.uk)