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View Full Version : Tip for Noobs: Run with Scissors!



HayateAce
08-22-2008, 08:05 AM
This is for new folks who have tried the scissors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin-vSQqoeo) , but get shot down anyway. In both the hunted and hunter roles, I've noticed that the main reason this move fails is that the turns are not held long enough. Pilots that try to shake me with turns that are too shallow never leave my field of view and are easy targets each time they pass the windscreen.

You don't have dump every last ounce of energy to do this, just hold the turn a bit longer. Count out loud if you have to, so you can find the sweet spot. Obviously if you hold the turn too long, you will give a better or equal turning a/c a brief gun solution.

Also, toss in random rolls as you go into the next scissor. It well help you not pass right in front of the attacker's gunsight every time. Fly against friends or even ai, record tracks, watch yourself from the enemy's view. While you are performing the scissors, think about your opponent. Are you making him work hard to track you?

Remember, this is a last resort close combat move. If you have enough room, turn into your attacker. If not, draw him in until just before he opens fire then get to it. If you don't remain calm, you get jittery and make your turns too shallow.

Part 2: What to do when your scissor has worked!

HTH.

HayateAce
08-22-2008, 08:05 AM
This is for new folks who have tried the scissors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin-vSQqoeo) , but get shot down anyway. In both the hunted and hunter roles, I've noticed that the main reason this move fails is that the turns are not held long enough. Pilots that try to shake me with turns that are too shallow never leave my field of view and are easy targets each time they pass the windscreen.

You don't have dump every last ounce of energy to do this, just hold the turn a bit longer. Count out loud if you have to, so you can find the sweet spot. Obviously if you hold the turn too long, you will give a better or equal turning a/c a brief gun solution.

Also, toss in random rolls as you go into the next scissor. It well help you not pass right in front of the attacker's gunsight every time. Fly against friends or even ai, record tracks, watch yourself from the enemy's view. While you are performing the scissors, think about your opponent. Are you making him work hard to track you?

Remember, this is a last resort close combat move. If you have enough room, turn into your attacker. If not, draw him in until just before he opens fire then get to it. If you don't remain calm, you get jittery and make your turns too shallow.

Part 2: What to do when your scissor has worked!

HTH.

general_kalle
08-22-2008, 08:56 AM
i cant chip in a couple of advices aswell.

if you have been doing schisser turning left and right for a long time its important to vary your turning a bit

sometimes make it sligly climbing, sometimes slightly diving, sometimes turn more, sometimes less and maybe even do a sudden violent turn (without stalling if course) if you have been doing scissers for some time the enemy will be surprised when you suddenly keep turning one way around.
you might also roll your plane to one side, say left and then throw the stick forward doing a negative G turn the opposit way, that is definately going to be surprising
using rudder will help increase your rate of roll to enable you to turn the other way faster.

Bremspropeller
08-22-2008, 09:02 AM
Mom always told me not to run with scissors...

HayateAce
08-22-2008, 09:03 AM
Dunno Kalle,

The moves you describe are exactly what I wait for. If the bandit abandons the scissors and pulls a full turn I am right on him firing. If you haven't thrown off your attack in 6-8 cycles you are doing it wrong.

HayateAce
08-22-2008, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Mom always told me not to run with scissors... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something tells me and your 190 scissor just fine.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

stalkervision
08-22-2008, 09:18 AM
Straight scissors dogfighting for a newbie is a bad idea. Hell even for the more experianced! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I don't recommend it whatsoever because you keep crossing your enemies flight path and he can take many MANY good shots at you.

Try the "rolling scissors" instead http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0k7XXv16g4&feature=related

HayateAce
08-22-2008, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:

Also, toss in random rolls as you go into the next scissor. It well help you not pass right in front of the attacker's gunsight every time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Most of us end up fighting down in the grass at some point, where a rolling scissors is void. Noobs live down there. That was the point of this post.

BTW, Choice video. That is so much fun to watch.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

stalkervision
08-22-2008, 09:41 AM
Isn't that video great HayateAce ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I have done this freqently with BOB/WOV Ai.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

I do a "horizontal rolling scissors" if that is the word for it down low. Turning and barrel rolling. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HayateAce
08-22-2008, 09:45 AM
Bookmarked.

Thanks Stalker!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

stalkervision
08-22-2008, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Bookmarked.

Thanks Stalker!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your welcome buddy. Ya this is worth a bookmark for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-22-2008, 01:49 PM
Scissors is a good pointed subject, sometimes sharp, other times blunt. This is interesting from a fresh viewpoint (ie...not WW2)...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN ~&gt; http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm

:
:
Q: How did the F-86H compare with the MiG-19?

A: We had a better roll rate. The F-86H got its wing up and turned immediately. Our roll rate was considerably better than the MiG's.The MiG, however, had a better turning radius. From that, the best F-86H maneuver against the MiG-19 was a "scissors" where we rapidly changed directions. If we got into a turn with the MiG-19, we were in deep trouble! Also, the MiG-19 had large speed brakes and decelerated better. When the MiG threw his boards out, the F-86H kept on going. The answer was never to decelerate with the MiG. If the MiG decelerated going straight ahead, then our answer was to pull the stick back and turn our deceleration into altitude. The program evaluated Navy and Air Force aircraft against the MiG-19. In what envelopes could we operate against it? Like any other aircraft, it could be taken if we knew what we were doing.The MiG19 had obvious advantages with its lower wing loading. It was a better turning airplane. With an afterburner, its acceleration was better, and with its bigger speed brakes, its deceleration was better. But in roll rate, the F-86H was superior. In fuel load and weapons systems, we were superior. We had other areas where we were competitive. Our mission was to recognize them.
:
:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>