PDA

View Full Version : What does it take to sink a Carrier?



BradC.
12-12-2005, 10:28 AM
Had a mission where I was defending my carrier vs 10 @ of Kates, Zekes and Vals and one of my two carriers took a torpedo right in the front... and was hit by at least 7 bombs. When it was all over, her smokestack and rear deck were belching smoke. But that was it.

Has anyone sunk a carrier? Do they list, break up, go down fast, what? Also, it seems to me the damage model (or however thats done) isnt detailed at all to show bomb or torpedo damage to ships. After a couple bomb hits, my carrier still looked fine and had no apparent damage textures or ill effects.

Oh, and this game rocks! I'm new to the game, just had it a few days and its super cool!

OT: Had my 1st oil on the glass windshield from popping a zero too close this morning... scared the hell out of me, thought my own engine exploded. I couldnt see **** cept a little spot right thru the target reticle.

Immediately requested landing... picked the undamaged carrier to land on, course I had taken engine damage by that time and my engine RPM was getting lower and lower... knew I didnt have much time...

My absolutely thrilling mission came to an abrupt halt after I barely managed to miss the arresting hook and flew off the carrier deck. Managed to splash down softly and make it out to fight another day. Didnt end it there, I watched the rest of the battle unfold from F2 views of all the other aircraft. Its like watching a freaking WW2 action movie! I love this game!

jds1978
12-12-2005, 10:33 AM
try a couple Tiny Tims aimed at the waterline of an IJN carrier....

I believe i've seen several carriers sink so far...they seem to go down quick once they get damaged fatally

Lord_Rhah
12-12-2005, 10:35 AM
it does indeed rock! Do you have the "full" merged game? if not, i'd SERIOUSLY recommend getting a copy of IL-2 Forgotten battles with the Ace expansion pack, then get online, because online games are were the real fun is at.

As for Carriers, yes they can be destroyed, but it takes a lot of hits. The damage model is quite basic as well, i dont think it really matters where you hit them, just X amount of times. Usually, you can get visual damage by hitting them in certain places though (flight deck etc) They generally sink with the stern or the bow first. it looks pretty cool.

Try building yourself a small mission in the Full mission editor, then turn unlimited ammo on and bomb the **** out of a carrier, you'll soon see the results

and welcome to the world of IL-2/Pacific fighters

JG53Frankyboy
12-12-2005, 10:36 AM
2000kg/4000lb or 6 torpedoes (japanese/US/UK) midships will sink a fleet carrier normaly in game.

1000kg/2000lb or 6 torps will send a jeep carrier to the fishes.

RAF74_Poker
12-12-2005, 10:52 AM
Since Vals only deliver 250kg + 2x 60kg = 370kg, it will take 6 successful sorties to kill US carrier.
Zeke's w/ 250 kg bombs will take 8.

SBD's w/ 1600 lbs will sink Japanese carrier in 3.

Oh, and in most cases you need to hit the same spot.
Carriers seem to be split into 3 zones for damage, front, middle, rear.
the damage criteria needs to be reached in one zone to sink it, I think.
Therefore one bomb on rear, one in middle, and one on front will result in damage to all 3 zones, but not a lethal kill.
I believe this is how it works.

Also, carriers seem to go down easier if all hits are to the bow area.

ElAurens
12-12-2005, 10:53 AM
I put 10 torps from an AI H8K1 "Emily" into the USS Essex and all it did was put a hole in the flight deck.

Ijnpilot
12-12-2005, 12:01 PM
I agree with the near invicibility of US carriers. Maybe its me, but somedays I get bored and use the Coral Sea map for DB practice. Besides my flight I set the other flights to Kates at ace level with torps of course. Out of the 12, about 10 normally hit. Most of the DBs including myself normally drop the bombs right on the deck of the carrier and all that happens is a bit smoke.

Anyone else get the same results? As for the game, I absolutely love it! My love for flight sims goes all the way back to when I was 13 so that would make it 8 years of playing. Jane's simulators like F-15 give me feelings of nostalgia, but in no way compare to this crown jewel of flight sims.

Kuna15
12-12-2005, 12:36 PM
It is easier to sink IJN carrier than USN one. Loadouts...
Few SBDs (1600lb) can do more damage than G4Ms and D3As.

And it takes a few 1600 hits to sink IJN carrier.

Load up Coral Sea in QMB and take a SBD and D3A (in difficulty set invulnerability and unlimited ammo) and test it out.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jds1978
12-12-2005, 12:49 PM
Ijnpilot Posted Mon December 12 2005 11:01
I agree with the near invicibility of US carriers. Maybe its me, but somedays I get bored and use the Coral Sea map for DB practice. Besides my flight I set the other flights to Kates at ace level with torps of course. Out of the 12, about 10 normally hit. Most of the DBs including myself normally drop the bombs right on the deck of the carrier and all that happens is a bit smoke.

Anyone else get the same results? As for the game, I absolutely love it! My love for flight sims goes all the way back to when I was 13 so that would make it 8 years of playing. Jane's simulators like F-15 give me feelings of nostalgia, but in no way compare to this crown jewel of flight sims.

this is historically accurate...Val's couldn't carry a big enough bomb-load to do a whole lot to US warships. Their real ship killer was the Kate loaded w/ torpedos

JG53Frankyboy
12-12-2005, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Kuna15:
It is easier to sink IJN carrier than USN one. Loadouts...
Few SBDs (1600lb) can do more damage than G4Ms and D3As.

And it takes a few 1600 hits to sink IJN carrier.

Load up Coral Sea in QMB and take a SBD and D3A (in difficulty set invulnerability and unlimited ammo) and test it out.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

the ships have the same damage modell, its just so that the planes can carry different amoints of loadouts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


and so far i know the D3A and SBD were THE shipkillers in the early WW2 time ?!?!

Troll2k
12-12-2005, 04:40 PM
I have sunk carriers with 7 torpedoes.All the torpedoes hit broadside.Torpedoes hitting the stern and props did not seem to do anything.Also with 2 tiny tims at the center of the flight deck will sink a carrier.

mortoma
12-12-2005, 05:05 PM
I got one with that big bomb they put in the nose of a JU-88 and you fly it and release it using a FW-190A-8. But I forget what they call that thing! A Zwillig or something like that?? It was non-historical so I made up my own FMB single mission for it. It took me about 20 tries before I finally got the S.O.B.!!

It was a large US carrier but I don't remember which one. The method I used that was finally sucessful was to drop down to the wave tops and approach the bow head on in a suicide Kamikaze routine. Any other way and the Zwillig or my 190 ( or both ) would get hammered by the flak from the carrier.

But the carrier did go down. And it was only a two or three minute sinking where it went down head first, straight down into the water. The golden colored screws of the carrier kind of glimmered as it went down so it was a beautiful sight to behold!!!

Kuna15
12-12-2005, 06:48 PM
@ mortoma that was likely Mistel bomb (Ju-88+FW-190A combo)? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Now that thing produces large blast... http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/a-bomb.jpg

marc_hawkins
12-12-2005, 09:29 PM
Screenshot here where you can just about see a carrier going down (second one)

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/35010114/p/213

My carrier should go down the number of times i've slammed into it.

slo123
12-12-2005, 09:43 PM
honestly the first thung that came to mind was



a hole in the wall

it seemed pretty obviouse to me

slo123
12-14-2005, 01:30 PM
what is that not true? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

jds1978
12-14-2005, 02:37 PM
JG53Frankyboy Posted Mon December 12 2005 12:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kuna15:
It is easier to sink IJN carrier than USN one. Loadouts...
Few SBDs (1600lb) can do more damage than G4Ms and D3As.

And it takes a few 1600 hits to sink IJN carrier.

Load up Coral Sea in QMB and take a SBD and D3A (in difficulty set invulnerability and unlimited ammo) and test it out.




the ships have the same damage modell, its just so that the planes can carry different amoints of loadouts


and so far i know the D3A and SBD were THE shipkillers in the early WW2 time ?!?!


you are correct about the SBD. However, the Val couldn't carry the bombload to successfully penetrate most ships armor. For example, at Pearl Harbor the Vals were tasked to attack the airfields rather than Battleship Row for this reason.

Corsair-D
12-14-2005, 05:13 PM
On the subject of tiny tims, I find them very unpredicable. I use the space between the second and third rings of the gun sight to aim them. Is there a better way to aim than that? I can hit a ship spot on at close range, but they are supposed to be stand off alternitives to torpedoes.

Nimits
12-17-2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
It is easier to sink IJN carrier than USN one. Loadouts...
Few SBDs (1600lb) can do more damage than G4Ms and D3As.

And it takes a few 1600 hits to sink IJN carrier.

Load up Coral Sea in QMB and take a SBD and D3A (in difficulty set invulnerability and unlimited ammo) and test it out.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

the ships have the same damage modell, its just so that the planes can carry different amoints of loadouts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


and so far i know the D3A and SBD were THE shipkillers in the early WW2 time ?!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The D3A was only marginally effective against US capital ships. Most carriers (US or otherwise) can survive 6 or more bomb hits,and there generally weren't enough D3As with enoguh bombs in a IJN airgroup to sink anything heavy. The Hermes, Dorsetishire, and Cornwall in the Indian Ocean were partial exceptions to that rule, but then they weren't technically capital ships (the Hermes was an old light carrier, and the other two were cruisers), and in any case, they were swarmed by an overwhelming, unopposed force of Vals (approx 80-90) unlikely to be replicated in any other scenario. No American or British fleet carrier or battleship was ever sunk on the high seas by the IJN by bombs alone; it was always torpedos or a combination of the two.

AKA_TAGERT
12-17-2005, 10:13 AM
It will take 3 torps to sink a carrier

This calculation is based on the following data

http://www.webundies.com/images/tr206y24.jpg

leitmotiv
12-19-2005, 12:31 AM
Right after PACIFIC FIGHTERS was released I was very interested to find out the vulnerability of Japanese and U.S. warships. A quick way to test is to simply drive your aircraft right into the ship. The tests resulted in some odd results. I was able to sink the AKAGI carrier with one SBD carrying the 1600-lb armor-piercing bomb. I guessed the best way to get into the entrails of the big ship would be to dive in under the overhang aft and crash right into deck above the steering engines and rudders. Worked. She sank by the stern with one hit. Smashing into some destroyers and submarines sometimes resulted in no damage at all to them---not even fires. The toughest nut is obviously the English VICTORIOUS class armored flight deck carrier. I haven't tried this, but the optimum solution should be a Ju87B with the heaviest AP bomb you can lug and bring friends. This nearly sent ILLUSTRIOUS to the bottom in early 1941. The Val used a 250-kg high explosive bomb and a 250-kg semi-armor-piercing bomb. I have no idea which they selected for the sim Val. The SAP bomb could spear deep into a U.S. carrier and burst on the armored deck above the vitals wreaking havoc in the hangar and funnel uptakes. Val SAP bombs left YORKTOWN at about 20 knots when the Kates arrived to give her the coup de grace. Too bad the ships in the sim do not give you a real test of skill---Japanese warships put over their helm and turned as tightly as possible at the highest possible speed to try to throw off aircraft attacks. U.S. Navy warships steamed as fast as they could manage (I estimate ship speed in this sim to be a measly 25 knots) and, by doctrine, did not throw over the helm unless absolutely necessary so they gave their AA directors optimum solutions.