PDA

View Full Version : Missions out of fuel range



pudsterIV
03-23-2006, 01:09 PM
Kia ora. Doing the RAF Singapore campaign, gotta love those little Hurris! Had a couple of missions however outside of our fuel range. I was leading the 2nd flight escorting Blenheims and the 1st flight turned back before reaching the target and the waiting oscars! I myself would of never made it home if there wasnt an allied airbase nearby the target. Anyone else experienced this?

elphifou
03-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Yeah, sort of the same happened to me on one of the New Guinea/P-40 campaign missions escorting bombers. On the way back, I heard a few other fighters sending "I'm hit" calls. Then I realized I was running out of fuel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I could have landed on one of the other bases, but like an idiot I persisted in trying to make it home... and ended up in a zillion pieces in a forest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

GerritJ9
03-23-2006, 02:37 PM
Whoever designed those Far East Hurricane missions clearly did not test them- they are totally impractical, even when landing on the nearest friendly base rather than home base. I never managed to escort the Blenheims all the way to the target, even with the most rigourous fuel conservation and ignoring enemy aircraft unless they actually attacked.

pudsterIV
03-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Ive had two missions escorting the Blenheims. Made it there and then to a nearby ally airbase with less then 10 gallons left. Thats flying at 55% throttle leaned out. That gives ya a speed just above the Blenheims cruise.

vocatx
03-23-2006, 04:29 PM
I haven't flown the RAF side of this campaign. Do you have any idea of how many kilometers the flights were? I can get 800 km. out of a Hurri with proper engine management. Try cruising (if memory serves) about +2 lbs boost, 1900 rpm.

Flying this from the IJA side, on two missions so far, I have made it back to base while ALL my squad mates ran out of fuel.

Nimits
03-23-2006, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by GerritJ9:
Whoever designed those Far East Hurricane missions clearly did not test them- they are totally impractical, even when landing on the nearest friendly base rather than home base. I never managed to escort the Blenheims all the way to the target, even with the most rigourous fuel conservation and ignoring enemy aircraft unless they actually attacked.

It's not a question of design, but rather DGen not recognizing the range limitations of the aircraft in question. For the Singapore campaign to have viable targets as the front line moves, there will be situations where targets are at "exreme" range for on side or another.

Two other serious problems in this regard are:
(1) The AI does not do a good job of fuel management and the cruise speeds for most aircraft in DGen are too high (burn more fuel)
(2) At least one plane, the D3A1 (and probably others, based on reports) has dramatically lower fuel endurance as modelled in the game versus what it shold be in real life (in the neighborhood of only 33%-50% of historical range). The Hurricane should about be able to pretty much fly across the Singapore map and back based on its real life range, and P-40s should be able to fly from Port Moresby to Buna (historically, they flew as far north as Lae, at least).

eskimo-again
03-23-2006, 11:38 PM
playing any campaign on new guinea is pure masochism.

Max.Power
03-23-2006, 11:57 PM
This happens in the european campaigns too. I was trying to do an me 109 campaign on the easter front and there was one mission that was impassable because fuel was bingo half way to the target. If you ran at the target (a flight of cargo planes), made a shot, and turned around immediately, you could almost glide back to friendly territory. Because of that mission I don't play offline anymore.

KG51-Edelweis
03-24-2006, 05:15 AM
Hmm I can´t complain about the Singapore campaign,
although I am flying on the Japanese side, always had enough fuel to get back. Only on one mission you are so hopelessly out numbered, how you are to survive that I don´t know?

ImpStarDuece
03-24-2006, 05:32 AM
The main problem with the DGen is that cruise speeds are too high. In Merlin engined aircraft, a combination of low boost and low RPM will get you home safely almost every time.

The Hurricane II manual recommends that the best speed for maximum range is 160 mph I.A.S, or 170 mph I.A.S below 5,000 feet.

I don't know if it works in game, but the lowest fuel consumption settings for a Merlin XX are at -4 boost and 2000 rpm (30 gallons/hour) . Any setting below 0 boost and 2000 rpm will give you a fuel consumption of less than 40 gallons/hour, which will give you around 2 hours cruising time with about 15-20 gallons reserve fuel.

At full boost and full RPM fuel consumption is around 130 gallons/hour, or about 2 gallons a minute. As the Hurricane only carried 94 gallons of fuel, that rate burns through available supply VERY quickly. Ata moderate cruise setting the Hurricane had enough fuel for around 90 min flight time, even after making allowances for climbing to altitude and for 15 minutes combat time.

FinPEP
03-24-2006, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by KG51-Edelweis:
Only on one mission you are so hopelessly out numbered, how you are to survive that I don´t know?

Scrambling six Ki-43's to encounter the raiding party of around 30 Brewsters? Take off, fly a few hundred meters and ditch the plane on the ground. Mission succesful with zero casualties on either side.

KG51-Edelweis
03-24-2006, 10:17 AM
Yeah 10 Blenheims, 3 brewsters and about 20 Hurricanes, with only six Ki43´s against them.
Tried it several times, only ended up as Swiss cheese. Will try the ditching tip see what happens.
Thanks for the tip! http://sil40.hp.infoseek.co.jp/img005.gif

horseback
03-25-2006, 09:44 AM
As I recall, there's a line you can put in your config. file that will set an upper range limit of your DGen missions. Here's the last section of my config. file:

PolygonOffsetUnits=-1.0

[DGen]
NoBadWeather=1
MissionDistance=75
RandomFlights=0
MaxFLAK=100

AirIntensity=Low
GroundIntensity=Low
Maxbomberskill=0

;UseParachutes

PolygonOffsetUnits=-1.0 is there to give you a reference point. It would normally be the last line in your config file.

MissionDistance is the one you want to set in kilometers. It's the one-way distance for your mission. Since most of my DGen campaigns are centered in the Eastern Front, and I'm flying 109s and I-16s, I limited the range pretty sharply. Flying bomber escort as a #2 or #4 can use up a lot of fuel...

The RandomFlights, AirIntensity, & GroundIntensity are set to Low allow a higher frame rate because then there's only the activity involved with your mission generated.

The maxbomberskill=0 keeps the bombers at Rookie level, where they're more likely to properly continue to fly in formation rather than dogfight with you, and it also limits ai gunners from popping you at the most ludicrous ranges (greater than 600m or so).

MaxFlaK only applies to ships' AAA, unfortunately, so the ground based AAA is still going to be impossible to 'surprise' and deadly at amazing ranges.

Hope this helps.

cheers

horseback

Nimits
03-25-2006, 11:12 AM
Mission Distance only limits the range of carrier campaigns in the PTO. Land-based campaigns are unaffected.

horseback
03-25-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Nimits:
Mission Distance only limits the range of carrier campaigns in the PTO. Land-based campaigns are unaffected. References please. I haven't had a suicidally long mission since adding that line, and I believe I added it before the release of Pacific Fighters.

cheers

horseback

Nimits
03-25-2006, 09:36 PM
From the DGen Studies thread at SimHQ.com, originally posted by Starshoy:

"MissionDistance= (0-300)
"In FB - prefered mission distance in km
"In PF - any value means that carriers are located in shorter than historical distance on maps where it is important - Hawaii, Midway, Marianas."

Because of the way most of the PTO maps (with the possible exception of Singapore) work,the Mission Distance setting was meaningless anyway.

If it seems to be working for you, maybe Starshoy turned it back for the Singapore map, (or it's even possible he never actually disabled it; DGen has not always been the most coherently documented program in history).