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whEinstien
02-15-2006, 02:52 PM
may we please have a quickfix patch for damage model, weapon ballastics, fm correction and reduced aaa accuracy patch for 4.03m.

Jetbuff
02-15-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by whEinstien:
may we please have a quickfix patch for damage model, weapon ballastics, fm correction and reduced aaa accuracy patch for 4.03m.
So they're all porked? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Oh, and you failed to mention in what way... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

georgeo76
02-15-2006, 03:32 PM
get back under the bridge

Enthor1
02-15-2006, 03:39 PM
I do not think he was typing to you guys and have you tried flying a Mosquito against ground targets lately?

The request was respectful and and your responses are not.

whEinstien, welcome to the ubizoo, not all of the inhabitants live in the same cages as the guys above but there are a lot of them, do not let them discourage you.

zaelu
02-15-2006, 04:07 PM
What do you understand by "quick"? Even if those were true problems (wich I don't think they are)... a quick fix? You must be kidding. We waited for this patch many months and it was delayed so much, obviously for minor "quick" fixes. If your problems are true you shoud expect you "quick" fix in 1 year... or maybe not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And also you should be more precise when pointing a problem.

ImpStarDuece
02-15-2006, 04:13 PM
Without specifics it's a little hard to take this seriously.

My general view of the subject is this:

Damage model

Fine, within the limitations of the game. Engine, pilot, fuel tanks, control cables can all be damaged, destroyed and are modeled internally. Flaps, alierons and rudders can be shot off or damaged. The DM in IL2 is better than in any other flight sim I have played to dat.

Freakish stuff happens occasionally, as it did in real life: in the last week, offline, I have had a single 20mm MG round cutting a P-47 in half and got a pilot kill and an engine fire against a FW 190A with just two .50 cal rounds. But, I've also put over 2 dozen 20mm rounds into a 190D only to have the bugger slip away from me.

As in real life results vary.

There are two main let downs:

1.The propensity for some planes to explode in mid-air from concentrated heavy cannon fire needs to be toned down. Fire and crippling damage were far more common.

2. Trailing edge hits seem to do less damage than they should, making dead 6 shooting relatively ineffective (but far from totaly so)

Weapons ballistics

I see no problem here. The ballistics of all weapons appear to be reasonably accurate to their real life counterparts. The M2 fires flat and hard, retaining energy well. The Mk 108 chunks out the 30mm rounds in a suitable arcing trajectory. The 20mms are a mixed bag, as they were in real life.

Relative weapon performance seems about right as well, with the possible exception of small to medium calibre AP rounds being hard done by because of the lack of critical systems internally modelled (ammunition boxes, radios, hydraulic and oil resivors, oxygen bottles, linkage lines etc).

I'm just basing this off personal weapons research, not having actually fired anything larger than a .303 in my life.

FM correction

Always controversial. Everyone seems to want their plane(s) to perform exactly as they think it flew, or should of flown. All sides have their own personal account of how their plane was superior in whatever aspect.

In general there are some flaws, which are inbuilt and inherent and linked to some basic limitations to the sim.

1. Heavy planes appear to have problems with their building, retention and loss of energy.

2. Relative dive acceleration and zoom models ahistorically favour lighter aircraft.

Some planes underperform or overperform according to the data that we have. However, we may not be privy the data which the FM's are based on.

Generally speaking, in most cases, the relative performance of aicraft matches their historical performance, to within a few percent. Nothing is PERFECT, but almost everything is acceptable. When its not, the community usually picks up on it and whines till they go red in the face and turn blue.

AAA accuracy

I actually think its more like AAA awareness and rate of fire which need adjusting. Gunners in IL2 are robots.

Remember that Oleg has stated repeatedly in the past the AAA was made more effective than real life in order to compensate for the reduced numbers of guns because of performance issues.

A general rule of thumb is that in IL2 each piece of AAA is roughly 3-4 times more effective than its real world counterpart. A single gun is more representative of an entire battery in performance.

This makes life easy for your computer and mission builders, but hard for pilots who dont understand why it is that way it is.

crazyivan1970
02-15-2006, 04:44 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

ElAurens
02-15-2006, 04:50 PM
The only "quick fix" that is needed is the hit box problem with the Mosquito. Currently the aircraft is basically unusable.

JG53Frankyboy
02-15-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
The only "quick fix" that is needed is the hit box problem with the Mosquito. Currently the aircraft is basically unusable.

a secound could be the Ju88 auto flap settings - very annoying during landing approach and at start for the AI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
02-15-2006, 05:02 PM
i think this patch was rushed out, hence these bugs

flying a mossie with anything vaguly flakish about is suicide. the mossie dm is really odd and weak, but its not only that...

crazyivan1970
02-15-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think this patch was rushed out

I think you think too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WOODY01
02-16-2006, 02:20 AM
Im no expert on the Mossie, but I would expect it to not handle flak hits from large caliber guns...Its wooden...

Apart from that I have no problem with any of it, and loving the way the Aircraft are starting to feel. Im very satisfied with the whole series.

joeap
02-16-2006, 03:07 AM
There IS a bug with the Mossie hit box, with arcade mode on you can see (and it's been posted here) it gets damaged ABOVE the right wing. Ju-88 also has a flap bug, as I experienced last night.

SeaFireLIV
02-16-2006, 03:15 AM
I agree, the Mosquito is the only MOST OBVIOUS bug, regularly proven, that I can see that could use a quick fix Patch (the hit boxes are in the wrong place). The rest of it mentioned by the original poster is just an unproven personal `I wish` list.

msalama
02-16-2006, 03:19 AM
The rest of it mentioned by the original poster is just an unproven personal `I wish` list.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Can we please get a quickfix disabling morons around these boards?

The-Pizza-Man
02-16-2006, 03:34 AM
The contruction of the mosquito was actually very resistant to battle damage.

JG5_UnKle
02-16-2006, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The rest of it mentioned by the original poster is just an unproven personal `I wish` list.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Can we please get a quickfix disabling morons around these boards? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and remove my posting right? pffft! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

msalama
02-16-2006, 03:40 AM
and remove my posting right? pffft! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ach, you're right & would probably include me as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif But hey, let's bribe the mods so that all OTHER morons get disabled but US http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
02-16-2006, 03:53 AM
Is wheinstein leadspitter? Over at SimHQ, Leadspitter posted a topic, and an exact replica appeared here at the same time posted by wheinstein. I forget which topic, but it seemed fairly obvious.

KG26_Oranje
02-16-2006, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by whEinstien:
may we please have a quickfix patch for damage model, weapon ballastics, fm correction and reduced aaa accuracy patch for 4.03m.

I agree,
i`m not a expert on computer code`s.
Buht there are things incorect in this patch or not yet repairt.
Dont get me rong , i`m very happy wiht my new toy the JU88 :-).
Buht the ju88 and mossi are now the Flying Zippo Lighter.
And the Bomb 250KG+500kg on the G4M1 are now super wapons , drop one and u distroy berlin for 50%.
Compare it wiht the SC2000 or SC500 and u notice the div.
I have send oleg my bug report on waht i have found .
So i go not in details again lol.
He diht a great job an it most be very hard to make us happy lol.
I just hope it will be repairt soon.
S!

guderian_ente
02-16-2006, 05:36 AM
may we please have a quickfix patch for damage model, weapon ballastics, fm correction and reduced aaa accuracy patch for 4.03m.

Can I add world peace and cold fusion to the list?



I actually think its more like AAA awareness and rate of fire which need adjusting. Gunners in IL2 are robots.


Exactly. This goes for computer opponents in all games, whether they are AA gunners, pilots, or whatever.

Simply put, humans have an OODA loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop) while computer opponents have not.

NAFP_supah
02-16-2006, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think this patch was rushed out

I think you think too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you need to show some basic respect to your "bosses" customers. Way to go mouthing of to the people that need to buy his future products!

msalama
02-16-2006, 06:06 AM
Hey, c'mon. Everyone gets a bit cheeky every now and then regardless of their status...

U just taking this s**t too seriously is all. HTH http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GR142-Pipper
02-16-2006, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think this patch was rushed out, hence these bugs They're all rushed out...or strangely unofficially leaked (time after time)...or this or that. The fact is that there are simply too many aircraft for the development team to do a quality job with.

GR142-Pipper

Kocur_
02-16-2006, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

AAA accuracy

I actually think its more like AAA awareness and rate of fire which need adjusting. Gunners in IL2 are robots.

Remember that Oleg has stated repeatedly in the past the AAA was made more effective than real life in order to compensate for the reduced numbers of guns because of performance issues.

A general rule of thumb is that in IL2 each piece of AAA is roughly 3-4 times more effective than its real world counterpart. A single gun is more representative of an entire battery in performance.

This makes life easy for your computer and mission builders, but hard for pilots who dont understand why it is that way it is.

Hm! So is it that for that purpose automatic guns have projectiles, which work as if there were proximity or time fuzes? Even though didnt IRL...

guderian_ente
02-17-2006, 04:07 AM
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_fuze):



The proximity fuze was developed through a U.S. and British collaboration during World War II. Vannevar Bush, head of the U.S. Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD) during this war, credits it with three significant effects. It was important in defense from Japanese Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific. It was an important part of the radar-controlled anti-aircraft batteries that finally neutralized the German V-1 bomb attacks on England. Third, it was released for use in land warfare just in time for use in the Battle of the Bulge, where it decimated German divisions caught in the open.


The proximity fuze was a US and British monopoly in world war two. The timed fuzes used by other countries were not anywhere near as effective as the AAA fuzes in the game, which work exactly like proximity fuzes.

It would be better to simply remove the proximity fuze effect from the AAA in the game and give them direct fire (impact fuze) capability only. Their extremely high rate of fire and instant spotting, identification and target tracking already makes them more effective than the real thing.

Kocur_
02-17-2006, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by guderian_ente:
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_fuze):

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The proximity fuze was developed through a U.S. and British collaboration during World War II. Vannevar Bush, head of the U.S. Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD) during this war, credits it with three significant effects. It was important in defense from Japanese Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific. It was an important part of the radar-controlled anti-aircraft batteries that finally neutralized the German V-1 bomb attacks on England. Third, it was released for use in land warfare just in time for use in the Battle of the Bulge, where it decimated German divisions caught in the open.


The proximity fuze was a US and British monopoly in world war two. The timed fuzes used by other countries were not anywhere near as effective as the AAA fuzes in the game, which work exactly like proximity fuzes.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. But my point was about caliber: proximity fuses were used in large guns, like 5' Mk38 (USN) or British 94mm. They were not used IRL in automatic cannons of 37-40mm area, not to mention smaller ones.

LEBillfish
02-17-2006, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
The only "quick fix" that is needed is the hit box problem with the Mosquito. Currently the aircraft is basically unusable.


I disagree 100% with this as it makes an excellent target in large groups for my FW190...Why as it stands, I can kill 20 in a coop no problem it makes a wonderful target drone..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Capt._Tenneal
02-17-2006, 08:53 AM
So, hitbox bug aside, the Mossie is a " tough " wooden plane that can take the hits, but we can all joke about delta wood ? Fix the LaGG dm model too, while you're at it Oleg . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

guderian_ente
02-17-2006, 09:02 AM
But my point was about caliber: proximity fuses were used in large guns, like 5' Mk38 (USN) or British 94mm. They were not used IRL in automatic cannons of 37-40mm area, not to mention smaller ones.

We are totally in agreement. There is no basis for using proximity fuzes in any of the AA guns in the game, except maybe late in the war in the large AA guns on the US ships (not sure if they have those guns in the game).

The best solution as it is now would simply be to drop the proximity fuzes (or timed fuzes) altogether and make all AA guns fire impact fuzed shells only. It would be more realistic than the current situation.

p1ngu666
02-17-2006, 09:05 AM
the mossie isnt tough
and with a few hits it takes 50mph or so off the topspeed
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Kocur_
02-17-2006, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by guderian_ente:

The best solution as it is now would simply be to drop the proximity fuzes (or timed fuzes) altogether and make all AA guns fire impact fuzed shells only. It would be more realistic than the current situation.

Oh, but large caliber guns (manually loaded) primary ammo were shells with time fuses! Deleting those would make it unrealistic in opposite direction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So proper mix would be: time fuses for large caliber guns (75 - 128) and impact fuzes only for all automatic cannons, regardless of caliber.

Kocur_
02-17-2006, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the mossie isnt tough
and with a few hits it takes 50mph or so off the topspeed
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

So Mosquito and Fw-190 have something in common http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Professor_06
02-17-2006, 09:42 AM
Acually, with the exception of the CoG on the P51 and P47, Im patch out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

guderian_ente
02-17-2006, 10:20 AM
So a proper mix would be: time fuses for large caliber guns (75-128 mm) and impact fuzes only for all automatic cannons, regardless of caliber.

I can live with that. The problem right now is that the low level AAA (i.e. the automatic cannons) are using "time fuzes" in situations when the distance is changing rapidly, like when you are heading straight towards them. Of course in real life they would never be able to set their time fuzes that quickly even if they had them. Ergo, they are using proximity fuzes.

Keeping the time/proximity fuzes for the big guns I can live with, even if they are a bit too effective because they always have the correct altitude. But I'm for anything that works and is quick to implement, and your solution seems to fit the bill. I do wish that Oleg would look at this since IMHO it's more important than all the ATA issues put together, even if it takes second place to The Wobbles of course.

ElAurens
02-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
my FW190...

Billfish... in a.... a... 190.....


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif


The apocalypse is opon us...

crazyivan1970
02-17-2006, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by NAFP_supah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think this patch was rushed out

I think you think too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you need to show some basic respect to your "bosses" customers. Way to go mouthing of to the people that need to buy his future products! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all he is not my boss lol...hellooooo
Second of all p1ngu666 and me quiet often pick on each other, sorry you did not know that.
Thrid ...where is your sense of humor? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

ElAurens
02-17-2006, 10:52 AM
Sense of humor? On these boards?

Ivan ,you know better....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Viper2005_
02-17-2006, 11:13 AM
Sense of humour for both the red and blue pilots has been undermodelled for as long as I've played this game. Oleg, please fix this in the next patch!

Kocur_
02-17-2006, 11:14 AM
The problem right now is that the low level AAA (i.e. the automatic cannons) are using "time fuzes" in situations when the distance is changing rapidly, like when you are heading straight towards them. Of course in real life they would never be able to set their time fuzes that quickly even if they had them. Ergo, they are using proximity fuzes.

No automatic AA cannon ever had ammo with time fuses - until Bofors' Trinity with 3P projectile in early... 1990shttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wingstrut_1
02-17-2006, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Enthor1:
I do not think he was typing to you guys and have you tried flying a Mosquito against ground targets lately?

The request was respectful and and your responses are not.

whEinstien, welcome to the ubizoo, not all of the inhabitants live in the same cages as the guys above but there are a lot of them, do not let them discourage you.

If he is familiar with games, and this is a game, he may find the subtle sarcasm of the posts were not directed at him personally but rather at aspects of this game, development, groupies and game addicts.

By the way, Okha's pilot has no parachute. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

guderian_ente
02-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Remember that Oleg has stated repeatedly in the past the AAA was made more effective than real life in order to compensate for the reduced numbers of guns because of performance issues.

A general rule of thumb is that in IL2 each piece of AAA is roughly 3-4 times more effective than its real world counterpart. A single gun is more representative of an entire battery in performance.

Actually this cuts both ways. Yes, we have fewer AA guns in the game but we also usually have fewer aircraft than in real life.

World war two aircraft usually operated in large formations, especially when attacking an important target like an airbase where the most muderous flak in the game is found. Because of performance issues we rarely have an accurate number of aircraft in the game, which begs the question if AA gun effectivenes really needs to be increased that much.

Don't get me wrong: low altitude flak was deadly in world war two, but medium and high altitude flak was much less effective.

A.K.Davis
02-21-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by JG5_UnKle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The rest of it mentioned by the original poster is just an unproven personal `I wish` list.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Can we please get a quickfix disabling morons around these boards? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and remove my posting right? pffft! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you retain your rights, but your posts appear as incoherent babble to normal users. Oh wait...

A.K.Davis
02-21-2006, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by guderian_ente:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remember that Oleg has stated repeatedly in the past the AAA was made more effective than real life in order to compensate for the reduced numbers of guns because of performance issues.

A general rule of thumb is that in IL2 each piece of AAA is roughly 3-4 times more effective than its real world counterpart. A single gun is more representative of an entire battery in performance.

Actually this cuts both ways. Yes, we have fewer AA guns in the game but we also usually have fewer aircraft than in real life.

World war two aircraft usually operated in large formations, especially when attacking an important target like an airbase where the most muderous flak in the game is found. Because of performance issues we rarely have an accurate number of aircraft in the game, which begs the question if AA gun effectivenes really needs to be increased that much.

Don't get me wrong: low altitude flak was deadly in world war two, but medium and high altitude flak was much less effective. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, our names are:


SlowFire=x.x
MaxFLAK=(0-100)


Use us in the [DGEN] section of your conf.ini, for we are the scourge of flakwhiners. For mission builders, you are entirely in control of the amount of flak in your missions. We cannot help you escape the Harpy screech of the flakwhiners, for only you are in control of this.

And for the stock single missions or quick battles...well...yeah, you flakwhiners are f***ed.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

IIJG69_Kartofe
02-22-2006, 03:36 AM
Is it possible to fix the MARAT AAA, medium and light AAA shoot at more than 6000m http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

guderian_ente
02-22-2006, 04:53 AM
Hi, our names are:

SlowFire=x.x
MaxFLAK=(0-100)

Use us in the [DGEN] section of your conf.ini, for we are the scourge of flakwhiners.


What? You mean there's a fix? You just ruined my whole day! :)

Seriously, what are the different values you can use with those parameters and what do they mean in game terms?



For mission builders, you are entirely in control of the amount of flak in your missions.

Uh? I thought entries in the DGEN section applied to DGEN campaigns only? Do they apply to missions constructed in the FMB too?

JG52Karaya-X
02-22-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the mossie isnt tough
and with a few hits it takes 50mph or so off the topspeed
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Welcome to the Focke-Wulfs world http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

A.K.Davis
02-22-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by guderian_ente:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hi, our names are:

SlowFire=x.x
MaxFLAK=(0-100)

Use us in the [DGEN] section of your conf.ini, for we are the scourge of flakwhiners.


What? You mean there's a fix? You just ruined my whole day! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, what are the different values you can use with those parameters and what do they mean in game terms? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SlowFire=x.x sets the rate of fire for ships, with 1.0 being "realistic" (i.e. say good by to your frame rate). I believe 0.5 is the default. If you want less flak from ships, set it to 0.2 or something. (This may be for PF only).

MaxFLAK=(0-100) controls the amount of ground AAA DGEN generates. Its possible values are...0-100! Not sure what the default is.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
For mission builders, you are entirely in control of the amount of flak in your missions.

Uh? I thought entries in the DGEN section applied to DGEN campaigns only? Do they apply to missions constructed in the FMB too? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, of course not. That's why I said the amount of flak is entirely in the control of the mission builder. For example, you can put 2 88s and a 20mm at target and it will be a true golden BB if you get shot down by that.