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View Full Version : Mr Maddox, a completely reasonable request



idonno
07-07-2006, 10:50 AM
I'm not completely certain, but I do believe that the Beaufighter is the only flyable aircraft in this sim that is absolutely incomplete.

It would be just plain wrong for you to stop work on PF until you give us the second crew position in this airplane!

To say that it has a horrible six view would be a lie. It has no six view at all.

How can you, in good conscience, ask people to fly such an incredibly incomplete aircraft? It simply boggles the mind to consider that it was actually included in the game in it's current unfinished state.

Please, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about this request. Quite the contrary, it would be unjustifiable to ignore it.

P.S. I love this sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

idonno
07-07-2006, 10:50 AM
I'm not completely certain, but I do believe that the Beaufighter is the only flyable aircraft in this sim that is absolutely incomplete.

It would be just plain wrong for you to stop work on PF until you give us the second crew position in this airplane!

To say that it has a horrible six view would be a lie. It has no six view at all.

How can you, in good conscience, ask people to fly such an incredibly incomplete aircraft? It simply boggles the mind to consider that it was actually included in the game in it's current unfinished state.

Please, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about this request. Quite the contrary, it would be unjustifiable to ignore it.

P.S. I love this sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Wingstrut_1
07-07-2006, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idonno:
I'm not completely certain, but I do believe that the Beaufighter is the only flyable aircraft in this sim that is absolutely incomplete.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not completely certain (insert nonsense here) that this is absolutely incomplete.

I think the only thing not complete is logic and reasoning with this as a statement.

How about just saying plane x has some features missing and leave it at that?

idonno
07-07-2006, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wingstrut_1:
How about just saying plane x has some features missing and leave it at that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's far more than just some feature. It's not like he forgot to include a flap position indicator or a landing light. You are completely blind to anything that isn't at least flying along side you and there is a crew position that would solve this problem if Oleg would only finish the plane.

If he never got around to putting a gun sight in your favorite fighter, would you say; oh well, it's just missing some feature?

Kuna_
07-07-2006, 02:33 PM
I personally don't require any view at 6 from Beau, but what I find reasonable is that we have that 2nd position and *that your buddy in observer position reports to you when he sees bandits*. That is crucial.
And is 100% realistic.

What we have now is very tough situation... luckily Beau is sturdy enough so we usually don't go down at first enemy pass.

Enthor1
07-07-2006, 03:12 PM
Per idonno:
"Please, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about this request. Quite the contrary, it would be unjustifiable to ignore it."


"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
No one is entitled to their own truth."

OK, idonno, you stated your own truth, or was that an opinion?

I really like this one:
"How can you, in good conscience, ask people to fly such an incredibly incomplete aircraft?"

I do not recall Oleg ever asking anyone to fly any aircraft in the game, did he email you that particular request?

Oh yeah, check out the IL2 Field Mod.

As far as the Beaufighter being the only flyable aircraft in this sim that is absolutely incomplete, I think a stroll through these boards would clear up your uncertainty, pick any plane in the game and you can find someone who is absolutely convinced it is absolutely incomplete.

Thanks for the laugh though.

idonno
07-07-2006, 03:16 PM
Enthor1,

PM me your address. I'll send you some money, and you can buy a clue.

Enthor1
07-07-2006, 03:22 PM
If I do can you send me enough money for two or three clues?

I want to give them as gifts.

Daiichidoku
07-07-2006, 04:09 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Enthor1:
Oh yeah, check out the IL2 Field Mod.
QUOTE]


yes check it out...it can defend ITS six, and the gunners mg sound also gives the pilot warning of a bandit on six


what does the Beau get?

200lbs of ballast

stryka.
07-08-2006, 12:23 AM
I dunno, keep coming to read something new here but we get I want I want I want. Really, the new games due, do you really think it's all worth it?

idonno
07-08-2006, 12:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stryka.:
I dunno, keep coming to read something new here but we get I want I want I want. Really, the new games due, do you really think it's all worth it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I plan to get BoB as soon as it's out, but I still expect to be flying PF for a long time after that. At least until the new sim makes it's way to the Pacific.

HotelBushranger
07-08-2006, 01:26 AM
Why would you want the second pos modelled? If you knew your stuff about Beaus, it was the navs spot, he would be facing forward and only a small number were equipped with .30 cals.

The Beaus main defense is its speed and armour.

idonno
07-08-2006, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Why would you want the second pos modelled? If you knew your stuff about Beaus, it was the navs spot, he would be facing forward and only a small number were equipped with .30 cals.

The Beaus main defense is its speed and armour. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you're saying that if you were the navigator in the back of a Beaufighter, you would just sit there facing forward all the time and never look over your shoulder to see if someone might be sneaking up to put cannon shells through you and your airplane?

If you were MY navigator, when you weren't looking at your charts, you'd be looking out the back!

Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
Pilot: "Is our six clear"?
Navigator: "Yes"
...

Capt.LoneRanger
07-08-2006, 09:04 AM
Can somebody point me to the completely reasonable request that was promised here? Seems I missed it.

idonno
07-08-2006, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Can somebody point me to the completely reasonable request that was promised here? Seems I missed it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you telling me you think that finishing the Beau by adding the missing crew position, to make up for its non-existent 6 view (heck, it doesn't even have a 4 view), is an unreasonable request?

Feathered_IV
07-08-2006, 10:31 AM
*Ahem*

Perhaps a compromise would be a fixed, non-panning, limited field, rear view that does not incorporate cockpit elements. Sort of a bombsite view facing backwards...

Just pondering aloud http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Daiichidoku
07-08-2006, 12:09 PM
this has been gone over long ago

all beaus up to the Mk21 used vickers 303s

mk 21s COULD, and sometimes DID carry them, but were usually stowed...at that stage of the war they were mostly left behind as a weight saving measure, running was indeed the best defense for a diminishing JP air threat made of machines recieving less quality maintenance and fuel etc

Pourshot even produced docs that PROVED Mk21s could and did carry rear guns

someone even posted pics of a finished rear pit, that Maddox didnt accept (or use) i dunno why, wether it "didnt meet standards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) or slolth or something


it is NOT unreasonable to put in a simple fixed rear view, OR an AI gunner, OR, at hte VERY least, a nav/observor who can say "check six", or "bandit!" or something..ANYTHING

96th_Nightshifter
07-09-2006, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
at the VERY least, a nav/observor who can say "check six", or "bandit!" or something..ANYTHING </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
07-10-2006, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are you telling me you think that finishing the Beau by adding the missing crew position, to make up for its non-existent 6 view (heck, it doesn't even have a 4 view), is an unreasonable request? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Unreasonable in a sense of not showing good judgement, as in the dictionary, yes.

a.) The Pilot has no 6 view. It would be nice if the navigator reported contacts on your six, but that has been demanded many times here for other planes, too, which even have a gunner.
b.) Switching to navigator to check six would be nice, but I doubt it would be worth the effort of creating a new position.
c.) The view limitation is due to the fixed position of the pilot. The Beau is certainly NOT the most critical plane in the game having a dramatic disadvantage by this (check numerous Tempest, IL2 and other cockpit-threads)
d.) If you want real cockpit errors, that were in the game, check the FW190, for example. It's in since the original release almost 7 years ago and it won't be fixed.

unreasonable as it has a no reason, no. You certainly have a point, but it is really worth the effort???

idonno
07-10-2006, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
...but is it really worth the effort??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes.

Also, I've flown the 190 quite a bit, and no problem with its cockpit can compare with the Beaufighter situation.

Chivas
07-10-2006, 04:46 PM
"How can you, in good conscience, ask people to fly such an incredibly incomplete aircraft? It simply boggles the mind to consider that it was actually included in the game in it's current unfinished state."

Now that statement will boggle Oleg's mind and have his eyes glaze over as he reflects on the INCREDIBLY incomplete Beau, and wonder what he was thinking. I'm sure he feels incredibly bad and will improve on the Beau when he does the "Storm of War" Pacific addition in ohh say 5 to 7 years.

Capt.LoneRanger
07-10-2006, 05:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, I've flown the 190 quite a bit, and no problem with its cockpit can compare with the Beaufighter situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


And YOU talk of bias there? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

idonno
07-10-2006, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
And YOU talk of bias there? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummmm... no.

I didn't say anything about bias anywhere in this thread. In fact, I don't know that I've ever said anything about bias in any thread.

I've flown the 190. It may have problems with the cockpit, but the 3D model is as complete as it needs to be. Did I say it is perfect? No, I said it's complete. On the other hand, the Beaufighter is missing a very important crew position.

You know, this isn't rocket science. The position is important. It isn't modeled. Therefore, the airplane is incomplete. Is that really too complicated a concept to grasp?

WWMaxGunz
07-11-2006, 12:47 PM
I can see easily that the real mistake was releasing it as a flyable without that position.
So the fix is easy. Don't fly it.

idonno
07-12-2006, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
So the fix is easy. Don't fly it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

F6_Ace
07-12-2006, 02:57 PM
^ Wasting your time, pal, making reasonable requests - this is fanbois HQ and there is nothing at all wrong with any aspect of this game. You should be glad of what you've got because you have the untold wealth of quantity without the unnecessary burdens of worrying about quality.

"Always look on the bright side of life...de-do..de-do-de-do-de-do."

PS: You shouldn't have mentioned the 190 - everyone knows that the forward view and gunsight is perfectly realistic give or take a massive modelling error here or there.

Chuck_71st
07-15-2006, 03:47 PM
Dont worry man! This forum is FULL of bored post junkies that have nothing better to do but criticize someone elses comments. If Oleg thinks
it can be addresed he will......but i'm sure he's quite busy with BOB at the moment. I'm sure there will be Beau's in the next sim and the probs will be addressed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-16-2006, 12:30 PM
WAIT!

Just a second here. For all intensive purposes, if your wish was granted and you got that 2nd crew position on the Beaufighter, and it was good and Oleg (=God) declared it thus:

How long would it take you to find something else to gripe about and forget about the improvement Oleg made for you?

WWMaxGunz
07-16-2006, 12:50 PM
Yes if Oleg (=god) would just wish it so and maybe snap his fingers that's all it would need.
Perfectly reasonable to say someone should put in many weeks of work researching and modelling
because if they don't then they are a-holes who have ruined your game. Then stamp your foot
and makes faces at anyone who tries to say it's not nearly as reasonable as you let on.

Doh-dee-doh-dee-dee-dee-dum-dum.

Lah-de-dah and so it goes. Is it tantrum time yet or will Oleg bring the ice cream first?

Daiichidoku
07-16-2006, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
WAIT!

Just a second here. For all intensive purposes, if your wish was granted and you got that 2nd crew position on the Beaufighter, and it was good and Oleg (=God) declared it thus:

How long would it take you to find something else to gripe about and forget about the improvement Oleg made for you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

perhaps there would be no (or very, very little)whines had he ever recified obvious errors (and duly noted and substaniated by the community) along the way, instead of leave them sticking out like sore thumbs

Chuck_71st
07-17-2006, 10:00 PM
If Oleg were God the Beaufighter would have a full crew.

WWMaxGunz
07-18-2006, 02:32 AM
If I were God then the Beaufighter would be real and in a sticky spot along with the rest
of the flight, enough of them to hold quite a few 'crew' from this very forum.