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truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 03:07 AM
I'm a Muslim and I find it rather offensive the way adam and eve are portrayed in the extra video. I think all muslims and everyone else who believes in God should be outraged that something like that was put in the game. I understand they're going for realism with the whole theoryy of the apple, but there has to be limits. Otherwise, who will be the next prophet to have his image publicly disgraced?

Im going to copy and paste the conversation that shows that I shouldn't be the only who finds this offensive. The example of a mother is used as a relative analogy for religion

ezioassassin51:
quote:
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, but publicly representing it comes with responsibility which is why there's a disclaimer there in the first place. It's there because there are laws regarding these issues. This proves that my opinion is valid and deserves to be expressed.

quote:
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.
truthchaser2kx:

Do you mean because my belief is weak or strong? I ask because if someone says something about your mom (even though THEY don't really know her) you would be hurt, but if you didn't really believe you had a mom you wouldn't be as hurt


ezioassassin51:
WHY are you comparing this to 'yo mama' jokes? you should use a better metophore than mothers because if you are educated in bullying (not saying you're uneducated or anything), then you would know to ignore whoever says that and not take it offensively, because as you said, they are stupid!


quote:
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:

I'll answer that with a question. If someone makes a false claim about your mother (in a sophisticated way, not "yo mama", and you don't believe it and they don't believe it) to a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable than ignorant speech ...
quote:
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:

quote:
Originally posted by mikini:
I don't really like people answering for me. I would probably reply that he doesn't know my mother, so therefore cannot make an assumption about her character.

quote:
truthchaser2kx:
Thank you. The second part was "why"
the reasons would be:
1)to clear her name
2)when you see her she'll appreciate how you stood up for her
3)Let the others know that when they say something wrong about her they'll have to deal with you and/or people like you
4)to insure (to the best of YOUR limited ability) it doesn't happen again
5)by standing up for your religion in front of a billion people you just stood up for their religions too, because everyone has a mother whether they know her or not


El_Sjietah: & truthchaser2kx:

1. If people take the word of some random guy without thought, I couldn't care less what they think. - - its not about you, it's about her, your religion. that random guy is media
2. My mom would appreciate it more if I put my energy toward things that actually matter. - - what matters most is what's done in the moment
3. ...True wisdom can only be taught, not forced... - - you would be teaching by example. Right now YOUR FORCING ME to teach you
4. If I don't care the first time, I don't care a second or third time either. - - it's not about you, it's about her and the loving children who do care
5. Sounds like you mainly use religion to belong to something. My "mom" is unique and if I stand up for her, it's because I want to and not because a billion other people with "moms" would appreciate it. - - My "mother" is unique as well. She's the only one I know of who's not only concerned with me, but rather all mankind [/QUOTE]

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 03:11 AM
Forgot to mention: Im talking about the "truth" video in AC2 that unlock for finding all the creepy masonic-looking glyphs

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 03:41 AM
I think your taking it all too seriously its only a game mate chill out a bit.

Dont get offended by things in computer games they have not delibratly gone out of their way to offend you, your religous sect or any other religous sect. As the message states at the begging of the game "the game is maybe by a multicultural team of various religous belifes and faiths" that would suggest they have done their best not to offend anyone but then i spose you cant please everyone can you.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 03:48 AM
As Ru said, the game had many different people making it, all of many different beliefs. I'm sure they have a Muslim working on it.

And the whole point of Assassin's Creed is to say religion is false, not just Islam. The game does not focus on Muslim beliefs, but all religious reliefs.

Should Christians get offended when the game says Jesus wasn't the son of God?

The whole idea of the game is to challenge religious beliefs, not to offend anyone.

jimbo11235813
07-08-2010, 04:01 AM
I'd find it offensive if they said that all religion in reality weren't true, but this is clearly a fictional game (seeing as the story is about how people used the Pieces of Eden, who later became religious figures. Its just a story.) As Ru said, people of different beliefs have gone into making this game.

EzioAssassin51
07-08-2010, 04:03 AM
Why should we be outraged?

I am Christian and i only find it interesting! It's just a theory/video to match what is going on in the game! What's so offensive about it anyway?

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 04:11 AM
Yes, Christians should get offended.
Most of us understand the message of the game clearly by now, and the game devs are intittled to their opinion.
Here's an example of my point:
A person makes a joke about "my mama". No big deal. Not bcuz everybody says "yo mama jokes", but bcuz they don't realy know "ma mama". But if they go and post some footage of a lady doing something immoral, and claiming that to b my mother - our father and mother in this case- then its going a lil overboard, that's all I'm saying.

greekassassin1
07-08-2010, 04:18 AM
I'm a Christian too my friend but it doesn't offend me because is just a fictional story man! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MetalX2010
07-08-2010, 04:18 AM
Man I love being an atheist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SevketErhat
07-08-2010, 04:20 AM
I am Muslim but not a very strict one. The game has not offended me in any way

notafanboy
07-08-2010, 04:21 AM
ITS A GAME damn you religous people are slow
religion is just a problem it starts war annoy atheists

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:
Why should we be outraged?

I am Christian and i only find it interesting! It's just a theory/video to match what is going on in the game! What's so offensive about it anyway?

2 things are offensive
1. They showed their naked bodies, which is humiliating to ppl who still believe in modesty and dignity
2. The vid clearly portrayed them as theives, who intentionally stole something , which is not how we know them in reality, and they are real people.

Etzio and other characters may b fictional but Adam and Eve are real, keep that in mind

notafanboy
07-08-2010, 04:28 AM
how do you know that were you there ? and how do you know their names ? im sure they didnīt write it down + people are stealing thing everytime as i said religous people are slow

jimbo11235813
07-08-2010, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:Here's an example of my point:
A person makes a joke about "my mama". No big deal. Not bcuz everybody says "yo mama jokes", but bcuz they don't realy know "ma mama". But if they go and post some footage of a lady doing something immoral, and claiming that to b my mother - our father and mother in this case- then its going a lil overboard, that's all I'm saying. But Ubisoft weren't intentionally trying to offend you. They're just telling a fictional story, which is impossible in this reality. The part with Adam and Eve are part of the story (people who almost everyone is familiar with, religious or not.) ALL religions are part of this story in one way or another. Even some political and historical figures are part of the story (some were said to be Templars in the story).

MetalX2010
07-08-2010, 04:30 AM
-they werent naked we're not getting through that again.
-Rodrigo Borgia is real too *possible spoiler in this article*http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01289a.htm

Its just a game bro !

EDIT: **** I think there's a possible spoiler in that article(date of death)

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:
Why should we be outraged?

I am Christian and i only find it interesting! It's just a theory/video to match what is going on in the game! What's so offensive about it anyway?

2 things are offensive
1. They showed their naked bodies, which is humiliating to ppl who still believe in modesty and dignity
2. The vid clearly portrayed them as theives, who intentionally stole something , which is not how we know them in reality, and they are real people.

Etzio and other characters may b fictional but Adam and Eve are real, keep that in mind </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Adam and Eve walked the garden of Eden naked. It wasn't until they ate from the apple and tainting themselves that they began being ashamed of it.

2. Adam and Eve did steal something. They took a bite from the apple, which God delibirately told them not to.

Maybe you should learn some more about your own religion before becoming offended. Nice irony on your username btw.

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:
Why should we be outraged?

I am Christian and i only find it interesting! It's just a theory/video to match what is going on in the game! What's so offensive about it anyway?

2 things are offensive
1. They showed their naked bodies, which is humiliating to ppl who still believe in modesty and dignity
2. The vid clearly portrayed them as theives, who intentionally stole something , which is not how we know them in reality, and they are real people.

Etzio and other characters may b fictional but Adam and Eve are real, keep that in mind </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What planet are you from? In todays modern world you are having ago at a game because of nudity have a day off. Wake up to the real world mate if you had children that were offended and upset by the nudity (which is incredibly limited anyway) fair enough but your not your just ranting. Your entitled to believe as you wish i personally think the whole adam and eve thing is all a bit far fetched for me anyway. I dont have a religion but i am interested in religon and do not care what others choose to believe in and as that message comes up at the begging of the game i dont think you have any room to be offened it states a mixture of religous belifes and faiths went into the game, they have tried to meet everyone in the middle and i think done a very good job i dont personally think you have any room to be offended mate.

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by MetalX2010:
-they werent naked we're not getting through that again.
-Rodrigo Borgia is real too *possible spoiler in this article*http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01289a.htm

Its just a game bro !

EDIT: **** I think there's a possible spoiler in that article(date of death)

Almost every character in AC2 was real bar Ezio im sure there were a few more fictional characters but the majority of characters in AC2 were real i dont know why people think otherwise Lorenzo De'Medici was one of the moist influential peopel in Italian history without him we would not bank the same today (that might not be a bad thing though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 04:53 AM
1. Adam and Eve walked the garden of Eden naked. It wasn't until they ate from the apple and tainting themselves that they began being ashamed of it.

2. Adam and Eve did steal something. They took a bite from the apple, which God delibirately told them not to.

Maybe you should learn some more about your own religion before becoming offended.

This is not the place for me to have dialogue w/ atheists or ppl who mis-interpret the accounts of the scriptures. I just want to show Ubi that I think they can do better in TRYING not to offend people, bcuz in-spite of the confusing messages being beamed to our brains through our beloved media, there ARE still ppl out here who hold these subjects as sacred. I would hate to see such a great game lose sales all bcuz they weren't careful enough in avoiding religious conflict.

notafanboy
07-08-2010, 05:03 AM
you just cant handle we are right and you dont have anything to say. where is god i have NOT seen him where is he ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif come back when you are smarter

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 05:08 AM
Almost every character in AC2 was real bar Ezio im sure there were a few more fictional characters but the majority of characters in AC2 were real i dont know why people think otherwise Lorenzo De'Medici was one of the moist influential peopel in Italian history without him we would not bank the same today (that might not be a bad thing though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

That's part of my point. Imagine if they put two new characters in AC #10- two ppl who you whole-heartedly believe are your mother and father. But 1) the actors who played their voices and their character models were hideous compared to their actual selves. And 2) They acted the same as they acted in real life, but from sum1 else's perspective who wanted to make them look like criminals when, really they were mislead by someone else (satan/the snake IN MY CASE, because that's I and billions of others ACTUALLY believe happened)

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 05:13 AM
Lets not start disrespecting his religon guys if you dont believe fair enough hes not trying to preach or recruit on here so dont rile him up too much hes entitled to believe what he likes. His point is silly as its only a game but lets not give him grounds to be offended by what we say on here. Just ignore him and move on. Im sure UBI wont loose sales over this issue otherwise it would have been raised before. Ubisoft have their target market and they know it better than anyone so lets leave that side of things up to them they wont miss his business.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 05:14 AM
As someone has mentioned, Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden of Eden, and the stole the apple from the tree. Where does it say they were clothed?

And I respect your belief that they are real people, and this is why you are upset. But surely Catholics should be upset at the way the Pope is displayed?

Razrback16
07-08-2010, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
I'm a Muslim and I find it rather offensive the way adam and eve are portrayed in the extra video. I think all muslims and everyone else who believes in God should be outraged that something like that was put in the game. I understand they're going for realism with the whole theoryy of the apple, but there has to be limits. Otherwise, who will be the next prophet to have his image publicly disgraced?

They have a disclaimer when you launch the game that it's a work of fiction. Don't bring your religion into it, it's a video game.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by notafanboy:
you just cant handle we are right and you dont have anything to say. where is god i have NOT seen him where is he ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif come back when you are smarter

If you really want to get into that send me a PM cuz I don't see you, never have, but I know you're there.

There is no right and wrong in terms of it being offensive. Those who are offended have every right to be, and those who aren't have a right not to be.

The debatable subject is Should ppl who believe in the real version of these REAL ppl be offended? my opinion is YES, and i have yet to see ne1 accurately address or redress the example i put forward.

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Almost every character in AC2 was real bar Ezio im sure there were a few more fictional characters but the majority of characters in AC2 were real i dont know why people think otherwise Lorenzo De'Medici was one of the moist influential peopel in Italian history without him we would not bank the same today (that might not be a bad thing though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

That's part of my point. Imagine if they put two new characters in AC #10- two ppl who you whole-heartedly believe are your mother and father. But 1) the actors who played their voices and their character models were hideous compared to their actual selves. And 2) They acted the same as they acted in real life, but from sum1 else's perspective who wanted to make them look like criminals when, really they were mislead by someone else (satan/the snake IN MY CASE, because that's I and billions of others ACTUALLY believe happened) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok the more you explain this too me the more i am begging to see what you mean yes that would be worth mentioning that was quite well put. I jsut dont think you should take it all to seriously. By that i dont mean your religion of course you should take religion serioously its your faith and what you belive in no one can take that from you. I know some very religios (i keep spelling that word wrong sorry) people and some very un-religios people and while i dont have a religon myself i would never disrespect anyones views and am prepared to listen and learn to the best of my abilities. I think in this particular ciurcumstance though mate you must jsut bite your tounge and just try to remember its only a game.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 05:22 AM
We already have addressed it, and you are choosing to ignore valid points. See my earlier post and address that for me please.

Oh, and also, you're not allowed to use text speak ("ppl", etc.) on the forums, as it makes it difficult to read. It is especially hard for people who do not have English as their first language.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by mikini:

And I respect your belief that they are real people, and this is why you are upset. But surely Catholics should be upset at the way the Pope is displayed?

True, they should. That's my point. Y do we have to allow them to misrepresent the ppl we look up to? Just bcuz half of their customers don't care?

I had a friend who used to make racial jokes around me a lot and say "no offense" afterward. I looked at him like he had no sense, the same way I'm looking at the comments implying that I, as a paying customer and a believer in my beliefs, don't have ne right at all to be the least bit upset about a agme crossing the line.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by Razrback16:

They have a disclaimer when you launch the game that it's a work of fiction. Don't bring your religion into it, it's a video game.

I swear I diddn't bring my religion into it! They brought my religion into it, and probably yours too for all I know.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 05:32 AM
It's not crossing the line though, it is clearly stated that it is a work of fiction, and that is was developed by a multi-cultural team.

They aren't "misinterpreting the people we look up to", they are using a work of fiction. There are a many works of fiction in the world, and the point is, they aren't true.

And if you are so offended, why do you play the games?

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
1. Adam and Eve walked the garden of Eden naked. It wasn't until they ate from the apple and tainting themselves that they began being ashamed of it.

2. Adam and Eve did steal something. They took a bite from the apple, which God delibirately told them not to.

Maybe you should learn some more about your own religion before becoming offended.

This is not the place for me to have dialogue w/ atheists or ppl who mis-interpret the accounts of the scriptures. I just want to show Ubi that I think they can do better in TRYING not to offend people, bcuz in-spite of the confusing messages being beamed to our brains through our beloved media, there ARE still ppl out here who hold these subjects as sacred. I would hate to see such a great game lose sales all bcuz they weren't careful enough in avoiding religious conflict. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's offensive to you, don't play it. Problem solved. Don't expect the entire world to adapt to your precious feelings. To me it's offensive how muslim culture treats women, but I don't see you change that any day soon.

Murcuseo
07-08-2010, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:

...they weren't careful enough in avoiding religious conflict.

I find that quite an ironic statement... you can work out for yourself why.

People who bring religious and political discusssion to gaming forums are naive for thinking it will go any other way but negatively. Maybe that's what you want to achieve who knows...

Once again serious religious and political debate has no place in a gaming forum.

Send Ubisoft an email or letter, that would be more productive!

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 05:54 AM
Im trying to be very open minded here and i am a liberal thinking kinda guy anyway i dont dislike people for any reason other than if you screw me over. However after i openly have posted an above post (practically and essay) trying to see things from his point of view and he hasn't bothered to reply i now begin to feel hes just a wind up merchant. As Robson says maybe a negative reaction is what you wanted and people like me who are grown up enough to comment posotively (spelt wrong i know) to things like this dont give you what you want i have tried several times on this thread to see it from your point of view but no reply http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 06:01 AM
And if you are so offended, why do you play the games?

You know why i play the game. The fact is having fun and being entertained is more important to most of US than guarding our beliefs and/or sacred figures from being slandered. But the funny thing is, the same people implying I have no grounds to be offended by something just because its fictitious, are the same ones trying to completely shut down my opinion, when there is no apparent reason or grounds for them to be doing so at all.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 06:05 AM
You're entitled to your opinion, but they aren't slandering you beliefs, as they aren't saying it's true.

Surely if you're entitled to your beliefs, then they are entitled to theirs? They might believe that what they say is true.

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 06:09 AM
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 06:20 AM
i love a good debate but when i reply to something and am trying to see it from your point of view and you just ignore it. I feel i now have the grounds to be offended by you. Please tell me if you disagree. i wasnt having a pop at you like some others i was just telling you what i thought and for a second you seemed to be making a valid point the fact you have only replyed to posts having ago at you proves you are just on here to get a reaction. As those who have had a pop at you you ahve replied to however i am trying to be more open about it but your not helping yourself at the mo.

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 06:25 AM
Meh, it's how religious people debate. They pick the arguments they can counter and to everything else they only reply with "this is what I believe" and that should suffice. I'm getting pretty fed up with this religious protection trend. Surely they're all adults and don't need to be protected against other opinions?

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 06:25 AM
The subject of this thread was a question. So far it appears the answer is "Yes". There's no need for anymore replies except in the form of: I'm also offended because.....
or
I'm not offended because....

Thanks for the advice Robson19822009

RU1986, I don't understand your angle, but as far as studying religions, pick one and study the life of it's founder, then decide firmly either true or false, and know that anyone who seeks guidance receives when he realizes he is in need of it.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by Ru1986:
i love a good debate but when i reply to something and am trying to see it from your point of view and you just ignore it. I feel i now have the grounds to be offended by you. Please tell me if you disagree. i wasnt having a pop at you like some others i was just telling you what i thought and for a second you seemed to be making a valid point the fact you have only replyed to posts having ago at you proves you are just on here to get a reaction. As those who have had a pop at you you ahve replied to however i am trying to be more open about it but your not helping yourself at the mo.

Personally I hate debates, they rarely end in truth. Discussion and dialogue are different. I'm not ignoring you, just having trouble understanding what part you don't understand.

Murcuseo
07-08-2010, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ru1986:
i love a good debate but when i reply to something and am trying to see it from your point of view and you just ignore it. I feel i now have the grounds to be offended by you. Please tell me if you disagree. i wasnt having a pop at you like some others i was just telling you what i thought and for a second you seemed to be making a valid point the fact you have only replyed to posts having ago at you proves you are just on here to get a reaction. As those who have had a pop at you you ahve replied to however i am trying to be more open about it but your not helping yourself at the mo.

Personally I hate debates, they rarely end in truth. Discussion and dialogue are different. I'm not ignoring you, just having trouble understanding what part you don't understand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this instance 'truth' is about opinion and belief and when people have theirs put under scrutiny in an envoronment like this it tends to get arguementative fairly quickly.

Hopefully the mods will close this discussion soon before it gets out of hand lol

EzioAssassin51
07-08-2010, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
You know why i play the game. The fact is having fun and being entertained is more important to most of US than guarding our beliefs and/or sacred figures from being slandered.

Then why are you guarding your beliefs?

Looks mate, it clearly states this is a work of a multicultural team and it is a work if fiction! You should probably be thanking Ubi for clarifying this so it won't look like they are picking on a certain religion!

Besides, what Ubi has done with the Adam and Eve story is only change it slightly to fit into the game!

For example, the snake here, is Minerva/The Ones Who Came Before, metaphorically as in they probably lied to the humans and enslaved them! The apple is forbidden from Adam and Eve because it can give them power and they are pretty much naked, and a lot more people than the believers of God would have found it offensive to see Adam and Eve running around fully nude!

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 07:01 AM
Regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, but publicly representing it comes with responsibility which is why there's a disclaimer there in the first place. It's there because there are laws regarding these issues. This proves that my opinion is valid and deserves to be expressed.


Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.
Do you mean because my belief is weak or strong? I ask because if someone says something about your mom (even though THEY don't really know her) you would be hurt, but if you didn't really believe you had a mom you wouldn't be as hurt

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 07:01 AM
Well i was trying to see it from your point of view and i did begin too. The way you explained the your earlier point about a relative of mine being used in a game (hypathetically speaking i know) and beign portrayed in the worng way was very well written and explained. I was basically saying that it helped me see it from your point of view and helped me see your point of view more clearly. I was then trying to compare you to some of my very religos mates as they would probably have the same point of view as you and would probably back you up shame they dont play Creed. Sorry i should have made myself cleraer.

EzioAssassin51
07-08-2010, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, but publicly representing it comes with responsibility which is why there's a disclaimer there in the first place. It's there because there are laws regarding these issues. This proves that my opinion is valid and deserves to be expressed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.
Do you mean because my belief is weak or strong? I ask because if someone says something about your mom (even though THEY don't really know her) you would be hurt, but if you didn't really believe you had a mom you wouldn't be as hurt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHY are you comparing this to 'yo mama' jokes? you should use a better metophore than mothers because if you are educated in bullying (not saying you're uneducated or anything), then you would know to ignore whoever says that and not take it offensively, because as you said, they are stupid!

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 07:22 AM
RU1986, thanks for being reasonable.

I think you and I may be the only two here you can agree that, even though it's a game with a disclaimer, there should be a line somewhere.

But I see what you're saying too. Society as a whole has been desensitized, and maybe people like me just shouldn't play these games. On the other hand, when it comes to that point where a person has to compromise either his beliefs in order to just enjoy the show, or his $50 entertainment to avoid watching his first father be slandered, doesn't that mean the fictional reality is getting a tad bit out of hand and should be redressed? or at the very least spoken out against?

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, but publicly representing it comes with responsibility which is why there's a disclaimer there in the first place. It's there because there are laws regarding these issues. This proves that my opinion is valid and deserves to be expressed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.
Do you mean because my belief is weak or strong? I ask because if someone says something about your mom (even though THEY don't really know her) you would be hurt, but if you didn't really believe you had a mom you wouldn't be as hurt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't. That's the difference between me and you. I know what my mom is like, so I don't care if someone who doesn't know her claims she's something else. You, on the other hand, appear to not be completely certain about what you believe in and thus try to ignore anything that contradicts your view and label it as offensive in the hopes it'll go away and you won't be confronted by it anymore. Of course I don't know you, so I could be wrong, but this is what most people look like when they label things offensive or insulting.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:

WHY are you comparing this to 'yo mama' jokes? you should use a better metophore than mothers because if you are educated in bullying (not saying you're uneducated or anything), then you would know to ignore whoever says that and not take it offensively, because as you said, they are stupid!

I'll answer that with a question. If someone makes a false claim about your mother (in a sophisticated way, not "yo mama", and you don't believe it and they don't believe it) in a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable that ignorant speech ...\/ \/ \/

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:

WHY are you comparing this to 'yo mama' jokes? you should use a better metophore than mothers because if you are educated in bullying (not saying you're uneducated or anything), then you would know to ignore whoever says that and not take it offensively, because as you said, they are stupid!

I'll answer that with a question. If a bully cracks a yo mama joke in a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable that ignorant speech </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd probably be quite amazed that there was a crowd of 1 billion people, to be honest.

And if they said something like that, I'd probably not hear them over the noise of the crowd anyway.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 07:48 AM
mikini , Let me make the question more clear so you can answer it instead of avoiding it

I'll answer that with a question. If someone makes a false claim about your mother (in a sophisticated way, not "yo mama", and you don't believe it and they don't believe it) to a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable that ignorant speech ...

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
mikini , Let me make the question more clear so you can answer it instead of avoiding it

I'll answer that with a question. If someone makes a false claim about your mother (in a sophisticated way, not "yo mama", and you don't believe it and they don't believe it) to a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable that ignorant speech ...

I don't really like people answering for me. I would probably reply that he doesn't know my mother, so therefore cannot make an assumption about her character.

And using "Yo mamma" (as you put it( jokes as an example is kinda childish.

Razrback16
07-08-2010, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Razrback16:

They have a disclaimer when you launch the game that it's a work of fiction. Don't bring your religion into it, it's a video game.

I swear I diddn't bring my religion into it! They brought my religion into it, and probably yours too for all I know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not going to waste much more time on this ridiculous thread but I re-iterate -- this is a fictional game. It has nothing to do with religion in the real world. If you don't "get that" then I really don't know what to tell you. THE. END.

Ru1986
07-08-2010, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
RU1986, thanks for being reasonable.

I think you and I may be the only two here you can agree that, even though it's a game with a disclaimer, there should be a line somewhere.

But I see what you're saying too. Society as a whole has been desensitized, and maybe people like me just shouldn't play these games. On the other hand, when it comes to that point where a person has to compromise either his beliefs in order to just enjoy the show, or his $50 entertainment to avoid watching his first father be slandered, doesn't that mean the fictional reality is getting a tad bit out of hand and should be redressed? or at the very least spoken out against?

First, Thats ok i try to reasonable about everything i am involved in doesn't always work that way though lol.

Now with regards to your comment about a disclaimer i think that would work, because e.g. On MW2 they ask you if you want to play the airport level of if you would prefer not too. While i find COD games mundane and dull i think this is a credit to them as they have hit target market really well. So yes i do agree with you here but UBI have had allot to think about with this game so they can be excused for leaving that out. On the other side of the coin they probably shouldn't release a game until its 100% finished.

I dont think anyone can tell you not to play these games your well within your rights to play whatever game you like and form your own opinions about the game. Also no you shouldnt have to change the views you have been brought up with just to compramise to enjoy a game/show. I can understand its not as easy as me telling you "not to take it so seriously" as for people who hold religion close to them there is nothing more important than that (bar their own family of course) depending on how they perseive their own religion and choose to worship i spose (tell me if im barking up the wrong tree here mate). So that said i think you just need to learn to take it less seriously but as i said above i can understand why that is not easy for you as with my own very religous friends (who btw being from SE London are Muslim, Christian, Rastafari Buddhist and Catholic) youo couldnt tell them to ignore something like that and why should they each to their own my friend. I just look at things from the most liberal point of view.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by mikini:
I don't really like people answering for me. I would probably reply that he doesn't know my mother, so therefore cannot make an assumption about her character.



Thank you. The second part was "why"
the reasons would be:
1)to clear her name
2)when you see her she'll appreciate how you stood up for her
3)Let the others know that when they say something wrong about her they'll have to deal with you and/or people like you
4)to insure (to the best of YOUR limited ability) it doesn't happen again
5)by standing up for your religion in front of a billion people you just stood up for their religions too, because everyone has a mother whether they know her or not

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
I don't really like people answering for me. I would probably reply that he doesn't know my mother, so therefore cannot make an assumption about her character.



Thank you. The second part was "why"
the reasons would be:
1)to clear her name
2)when you see her she'll appreciate how you stood up for her
3)Let the others know that when they say something wrong about her they'll have to deal with you and/or people like you
4)to insure (to the best of YOUR limited ability) it doesn't happen again
5)by standing up for your religion in front of a billion people you just stood up for their religions too, because everyone has a mother whether they know her or not </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my opinion, the Islamic Holy Books are just like that person who is making comments about my mother, except for one difference; I know what my mother is like, religions have to rely on that person to tell them what the prophets were like.

See the contradiction? You have no personal knowledge of the prophets.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 08:32 AM
RU 1986, I think your point of "not taking it too seriously" is addressed in the "yo mama" replies between myself, mikini, ezioassassin, and El_Sjietah

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
I don't really like people answering for me. I would probably reply that he doesn't know my mother, so therefore cannot make an assumption about her character.



Thank you. The second part was "why"
the reasons would be:
1)to clear her name
2)when you see her she'll appreciate how you stood up for her
3)Let the others know that when they say something wrong about her they'll have to deal with you and/or people like you
4)to insure (to the best of YOUR limited ability) it doesn't happen again
5)by standing up for your religion in front of a billion people you just stood up for their religions too, because everyone has a mother whether they know her or not </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. If people take the word of some random guy without thought, I couldn't care less what they think.
2. My mom would appreciate it more if I put my energy toward things that actually matter.
3. Here is where most religious people go wrong. You can believe whatever you want, but don't force it on others. They're entitled to their opinion as much as you are. "Having to deal with you" because they believe differently only makes your beliefs appear weaker. True wisdom can only be taught, not forced. One of the main points in the AC series btw, which begs the question how much thought you put into it before posting your complaint, but I digress.
4. If I don't care the first time, I don't care a second or third time either.
5. Sounds like you mainly use religion to belong to something. My "mom" is unique and if I stand up for her, it's because I want to and not because a billion other people with "moms" would appreciate it.

Jemelet
07-08-2010, 08:50 AM
Curious. But i agree with few people on here. You shopuld't get upset about something you know isn't true. Everybody knows it isn't true. If people think they are fake characters they will just be suprised when they find out they are real people. Who are dead and don't care what we as living people think of them. If you believe in an afterlife, they have better things to do then worry about how a work of FICTION meaning not real or adapted to be false, portrays them. No one where ever in the afterlife will care. There would be no reason to.
Also, if someone said something bad about my mother i would shrug it off.
1. They don't know her, which i would state and therefore the person is not a reliable source to be commenting as such.
2. My mother wouldn't care. At all. Why should she let someone else who she doesn't know upset her?
3. Why would people around me care aboput what someone said about my mother.
4. I can't do much. In general. Witty but reasonable replies are probably the end of my rope. It would probably happen again anyway, infrequently, so what would be the point?
5. Religion is messy. I'm sure it's very helpful to those who find it so. Others not so much. 1 billion people would not have heard me or anyone else for that matter stick up for their religion and i'm sure only 192 care. How is standing up for my religion standing up for theirs. Mothers vary. Depending on what one considers a mother results the answer. For those who don't know their mother, why would they think you, a random who has no connection to their mother, be telling the truth? It isn't logical. Neither is a crowd of a billion people but eh.

Also i think they portrayed every religion required equally. The nudity thing ... what are you? 12? Seriously. there's not even that much of it, its only hinted at and they would have seen worse things in P.E. Also why are you under 14 children playing? And if it's offending you, you can always look away. Why would a conservative person feel humiliated about someone else (a cartoon for that matter) being naked? It's not your body, you are different so it's unneccessary to be worried. Its fiction and therefore cannot be considered reality. There is no fictional reality unless we consider politicions.

Those are my opinions. I don't care if i have offended you, it wasn't my intention but i feel i have explained MY point of veiw. I am not attacking, trolling, or disregarding your veiw i just find it naive and a little illogical. Again, MY OPINION. It is in no way a fact since it cannot be proven, it is a thought or many thoughts to be more precise. I am in no way juding your character, nor anyone elses. What a fun first post, what's next? *Smilie face*

plug-inalex
07-08-2010, 09:00 AM
Hmmm... well... most likely no one does.. but i'll say it anyway... if you're asking me, forums are for discussing things in a sort happy way.. to sort of... celebrate *hallelujah*.. kind thing for Assassins Creed. So for those who are offended like yo mamma jokes brush it off, but the game were made by people we don't know who i doubt want to bring harsh feelings onto a gamer... specially when their real aim is to make money. Secondly all the theories of philosiphies bought to the game... sometimes a bit cliche is... well cliche and a lot of the time poetic, so in a way it's more of an art than a statement.. I forgot what I was going to say... hmmmm....

Ohh right... yeah... just throw away the bad and have a fiesta.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 09:03 AM
truthchaser2kx:
Thank you. The second part was "why"
the reasons would be:
1)to clear her name
2)when you see her she'll appreciate how you stood up for her
3)Let the others know that when they say something wrong about her they'll have to deal with you and/or people like you
4)to insure (to the best of YOUR limited ability) it doesn't happen again
5)by standing up for your religion in front of a billion people you just stood up for their religions too, because everyone has a mother whether they know her or not
El_Sjietah:

1. If people take the word of some random guy without thought, I couldn't care less what they think. its not about you, it's about her, your religion
2. My mom would appreciate it more if I put my energy toward things that actually matter. what matters most is what's done in the moment
3. ...True wisdom can only be taught, not forced... you would be teaching by example. Right now YOUR FORCING ME to teach you
4. If I don't care the first time, I don't care a second or third time either. it's not about you, it's about her and the loving children who do care
5. Sounds like you mainly use religion to belong to something. My "mom" is unique and if I stand up for her, it's because I want to and not because a billion other people with "moms" would appreciate it. My "mother" is uniqu as well. She's the only one I know of who's not only concerned with me, but rather all mankind [/QUOTE]

Jemelet
07-08-2010, 09:07 AM
Awesome, i like your style XD.

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 09:10 AM
A religion is no living thing. Same with society. They don't need people standing up for them, becuase they don't care whether they exist or not. They can't care whether they exist or not. What you're really protecting is your perception of this world.

And aside from that, if they're valid ideologies, they'll keep existing no matter what we do and if they're not, they shouldn't be defended in the first place. Stop fussing about what other people think and instead focus on what you believe in.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Jemelet:
.....
1. They don't know her, which i would state and therefore the person is not a reliable source to be commenting as such....
What a fun first post, what's next? *Smilie face*

That's all I'm trying to do is say, " Hey, I'd appreciate it if you didn't go spreading false information around, even if your joking, just please don't use my "mother"'s name." Muslims know that Adam was the first Prophet of Islam on earth, we all believe that. And Christians and Jews have their belief about him as well. People are replying against me as if I said the game is teaching devil worship or something. I'm just saying I think they should be a little more considerate to people like me, because although we are few in number, we do exist and we play games too. We have the right to speak like everyone else. Just because I like the game doesn't mean there are no flaws in it. This is a flaw, it's offensive content. We should let them know

notafanboy
07-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:

...they weren't careful enough in avoiding religious conflict.

I find that quite an ironic statement... you can work out for yourself why.

People who bring religious and political discusssion to gaming forums are naive for thinking it will go any other way but negatively. Maybe that's what you want to achieve who knows...

Once again serious religious and political debate has no place in a gaming forum.

Send Ubisoft an email or letter, that would be more productive! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
i dont want to go off topic but i like your sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jemelet
07-08-2010, 09:38 AM
But its not offensive content. It's fiction. You choose to be offended by it. You now must deal with it. And you are a minority and so your priorities or issues are second to those of the main focus.

BK-110
07-08-2010, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
I'm a Muslim and I find it rather offensive the way adam and eve are portrayed in the extra video. I think all muslims and everyone else who believes in God should be outraged that something like that was put in the game. I understand they're going for realism with the whole theoryy of the apple, but there has to be limits. Otherwise, who will be the next prophet to have his image publicly disgraced?

Take it easy man, it's a game. This is why I can't stand religious nutjobs...

Cpt_Yanni
07-08-2010, 09:40 AM
This discussion is becoming immature. First of all, everyone has to respect some ones vision. But second of all, you should also respect the reactions you get on your vision.

Like some of this forum already said, it's only a game. If you're really offended by it, write a letter to Ubisoft. However, I don't think that this was so offending (think about Lady Ga Ga, that's a lot more 'offending'). I have respect for people that really believe in their religion (I'm Christian but I really don't care about anything that is wrong presented about Christians in the game). Really, it's only a game... Just play it and enjoy it... But like I said, if you're really got troubled by it, just contact the right people with this question.

I think you could expect these reactions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

iLikeBacon
07-08-2010, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Cpt_Yanni:
This discussion is becoming immature. First of all, everyone has to respect some ones vision. But second of all, you should also respect the reactions you get on your vision.

Like some of this forum already said, it's only a game. If you're really offended by it, write a letter to Ubisoft. However, I don't think that this was so offending (think about Lady Ga Ga, that's a lot more 'offending'). I have respect for people that really believe in their religion (I'm Christian but I really don't care about anything that is wrong presented about Christians in the game). Really, it's only a game... Just play it and enjoy it... But like I said, if you're really got troubled by it, just contact the right people with this question.

I think you could expect these reactions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Exactly. It's only a game, and there is no need to spark any reaction due to the religious content of it. It doesn't change anything at all. Contact the right people if you feel very strongly about it.

Bacon out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Bacon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
A religion is no living thing. I'm only using the "mother" analogy to relate the topic to something everyone can AGREE to relate to. They don't need people standing up for them.... True. The true religion will stand on it's own. But I'm standing with it. When it's attacked, I'm attacked, if you walk by and accidentally bump into it (figuratively speaking), you've bumped into me

Stop fussing about what other people think and instead focus on what you believe in. Aren't you fussing about what I'm speaking on? I BELIEVE that UbiSoft has done something wrong, and all I'm doing is trying to let them know in a very small, quiet, way. See how quickly some of you are jump to respond because you THINK someone is attacking your beloved game.,

cgdemon894
07-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Well the real question is as the great Bill Maher has said: Do you actually believe in a talking snake?

Crucify Lucifer
07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Uh oh, God forbid a game involve historical and religious elements to make an intriguing and amazing story.


Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Otherwise, who will be the next prophet to have his image publicly disgraced?

No, a public disgrace is seeing your mother or sister star in a porno or your church's leader getting front page news for soliciting male ******s. What they did was simply develop a fictional game with characters that are from history and various religions.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

BK-110
07-08-2010, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

It's called free speech. You can voice your opinion, but you have to be prepared to meet opposition.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by BK-110:

It's called free speech. You can voice your opinion, but you have to be prepared to meet opposition.

Yes, but what are most of them opposing? I posted a question to validate my view, and instead of accurately addressing the points I made, many people are saying I don't have a right to say "something is wrong and inappropriate here". Will the opposotion please either oppose the points I made in the post below, or stop involving yourself with things beyond your understanding

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 10:39 AM
Im going to copy and paste the conversation that ahows that I shouldn't be the only who finds this offensive. The example of a mother is used as a relative analogy for religion

ezioassassin51:
quote:
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, but publicly representing it comes with responsibility which is why there's a disclaimer there in the first place. It's there because there are laws regarding these issues. This proves that my opinion is valid and deserves to be expressed.

quote:
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
And on another note, you can't portray something wrong that isn't proven fact in the first place. If you get so easily offended, maybe the problem lies with how strong your belief really is.
truthchaser2kx:

Do you mean because my belief is weak or strong? I ask because if someone says something about your mom (even though THEY don't really know her) you would be hurt, but if you didn't really believe you had a mom you wouldn't be as hurt


ezioassassin51:
WHY are you comparing this to 'yo mama' jokes? you should use a better metophore than mothers because if you are educated in bullying (not saying you're uneducated or anything), then you would know to ignore whoever says that and not take it offensively, because as you said, they are stupid!



Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:

I'll answer that with a question. If someone makes a false claim about your mother (in a sophisticated way, not "yo mama", and you don't believe it and they don't believe it) to a crowd of a billion people, would you respond? And why?

If you don't want to answer I'll answer for you. Intelligent silence is always more honorable that ignorant speech ...

AMuppetMatt
07-08-2010, 10:46 AM
Actually, I think all of you have missed the point here.

What everyone else is saying, truthchaser, is it is at the end of the day, a game; which means that you shouldn't really get too uptight about anything that could be considered controversial and that a work of fiction is just that: a work of fiction.

Take Philip Pullman's "Dark Materials" trilogy. A few Catholics were in an absolute uproar about a book like that because it was talking about God not being real and heaven not being real. They were worried that it would warp people's (mainly 'young people's') minds into no-longer being Catholic Christians. The last time I checked there was another book on the market designed purely to change people's beliefs. It's called the Bible, and it currently the highest selling book in history.

What you can't do is go the way of the Catholics and detest or ban anything that questions, slanders or pushes the boundaries or your faith, because I've learnt that you're faith can only get stronger if you question it. If you don't question your faith it isn't your own... it's being force fed something that you've told is true and there are no two ways about it.

Or I could be looking too deeply into it... it IS just a game after all...


As for everyone else, I think Truth is trying to say that maybe we need to think more critically of some of the borderline areas in the game. Whilst he's not saying that "you should all be offended and will be!!!", I get the idea that the general feeling he's getting is that you shouldn't be blinded that it is just a game, but that someone has gone into the careful deliberation and decision of planning this and that their motives might, might MIGHT not just be there to entertain.

Or I could be looking too deeply into this, after all, it is JUST a game...

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
A religion is no living thing. I'm only using the "mother" analogy to relate the topic to something everyone can AGREE to relate to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This isn't about the mother analogy, this is about the way most people treat ideologies.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> They don't need people standing up for them.... True. The true religion will stand on it's own. But I'm standing with it. When it's attacked, I'm attacked, if you walk by and accidentally bump into it (figuratively speaking), you've bumped into me </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the thing, you can't attack an idea. An idea is there and will always be there, no matter what we do. All you can attack is someone's faith in that idea. The weaker that faith is, the more easily they get riled up by it.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Stop fussing about what other people think and instead focus on what you believe in. Aren't you fussing about what I'm speaking on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but I'm fussing about human nature. You're fussing about differences in ideologies. There's a difference.


I BELIEVE that UbiSoft has done something wrong, and all I'm doing is trying to let them know in a very small, quiet, way. See how quickly some of you are jump to respond because you THINK someone is attacking your beloved game.,

Whether you like it or not won't affect my enjoyment of the game, so I don't really care what you think about it. What I do care about is when you try and change that experience because of what a small minority believes and don't acknowledge the fact that the vast majority prefers it the way it is.


Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

If you don't believe what they portray, it isn't your religion that's being portrayed.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 11:15 AM
I won't respond to most of your reply because false statements refute themselves for men of understanding, and you're taking things out of context. I will adress this point...
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

If you don't believe what they portray, it isn't your religion that's being portrayed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
mostly everyone knows that was representing adam and eve. with that said, read the 5 reasons i gave for someone speaking out against someone who speaks falsely of their religion. counter those 5 points if you really want to show that your point is valid. I edited my original post to include that conversation

plug-inalex
07-08-2010, 11:17 AM
Let's PPLLLEEEASE end this discussion now is like a big circle. Like a ring... or a ball... or an onion ring. or an ipod loading screen. or a... urrrm... camera lense?
You got the idea. Shame on people who are slandering people for example.... "uurrrrrhhh you can't face that we're right" orr... "urrhhh you're so annnoying" orr "Urrrrhhh idiot" or whatever you young/old/middle aged../teenagers whippersnappers say. Take a breather. Have a break. Think of the ocean, or possibly a pirate with an eye patch... and a parrot... hhmmmm coool.
JUST END DISCUSSION

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by cgdemon894:
Well the real question is as the great Bill Maher has said: Do you actually believe in a talking snake?
send me a PM if you want to get into that, because some people believe we're talking monkeys, but a video game forum isn't the time nor place

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
I won't respond to most of your reply because false statements refute themselves for men of understanding, and you're taking things out of context. I will adress this point...

Let's dismiss what I don't like. Debating at its finest.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

If you don't believe what they portray, it isn't your religion that's being portrayed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
mostly everyone knows that was representing adam and eve. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you get riled up over every bible you see? Or every Torah you come by? Because both those books talk about Adam and Eve (and a ton of other stuff Islam discusses) and neither of them depicts it the way it's written in the Koran. That's all this is as well. Another look at things.


with that said, read the 5 reasons i gave for someone speaking out against someone who speaks falsely of their religion. counter those 5 points if you really want to show that your point is valid. I edited my original post to include that conversation

I already did, but you decided to dismiss it and argue things that suited you better instead. See a pattern?

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 11:22 AM
I see you failed to answer my post, and I want to know what you have to say about it. I'll copy it here for reference.

In my opinion, the Islamic Holy Books are just like that person who is making comments about my mother, except for one difference; I know what my mother is like, religions have to rely on that person to tell them what the prophets were like.

See the contradiction? You have no personal knowledge of the prophets.

EmperorxZurg
07-08-2010, 11:38 AM
truthchaser, I'm a very strong Christian, I probably read Genesis once a month too. What they depicted is actually in the holy scripture. They were naked because they were pure. As God made them. They did steal something, the apple. Which is the whole premise of the game. That apple from the tree of knowledge that made Adam and Eve realize they were naked. Ubi did an actual accurate job depicting it. I may not agree though about the whole Minerva and the ones who came before thing, but they depicted Adam and Eve and what they did quite accurately to the Scripture. I've read how it was written in the Qu'ran too. Same way. And even if it was wrong. It's a game. They show at the beginning that this is all a game and has been made by people of various faiths. Muslim, Chrisitian, Agnostic, etc; so take a fricken chill pill. I know Church pastors who play the game!

Notafanboy: that comment was a bit rude though. People of faiths like mine and his don't believe we need to see him physically. so that's just a bit of a hate comment....

now that that's done, let's try and get along and stop arguing mindlessly

EDIT: My bad, I only answered the first page.....then why don't we just go with my last statement and stop arguing...

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by mikini:
I see you failed to answer my post, and I want to know what you have to say about it. I'll copy it here for reference.

In my opinion, the Islamic Holy Books are just like that person who is making comments about my mother, except for one difference; I know what my mother is like, religions have to rely on that person to tell them what the prophets were like.

See the contradiction? You have no personal knowledge of the prophets.

Sounds like you're giving your opinion about something you have no knowledge of. And the same of analogy of the mothers to the religions can't be used for the mother to the prophets. Putting analogies to the side, I know more about our prophets than most know about their great grandmother. Yet, still if someone were to depict someone else's great grandmother in a way that they deemed inappropriate they would at the very least speak against it, and you wouldn't condemn them for doing so would you? That's my main point now, that I have a right to speak against this, and i don't see how you can disagree

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
I see you failed to answer my post, and I want to know what you have to say about it. I'll copy it here for reference.

In my opinion, the Islamic Holy Books are just like that person who is making comments about my mother, except for one difference; I know what my mother is like, religions have to rely on that person to tell them what the prophets were like.

See the contradiction? You have no personal knowledge of the prophets.

Sounds like you're giving your opinion about something you have no knowledge of. And the same of analogy of the mothers to the religions can't be used for the mother to the prophets. Putting analogies to the side, I know more about our prophets than most know about their great grandmother. Yet, still if someone were to depict someone else's great grandmother in a way that they deemed inappropriate they would at the very least speak against it, and you wouldn't condemn them for doing so would you? That's my main point now, that I have a right to speak against this, and i don't see how you can disagree </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but to learn of those prophets, you had to rely on other accounts, and how do you know they are not twisting the truth to suit their own needs? Simply, you don't.

And the only part I understand that you disagree with are the nudity and the theft, both 'proven' to have happened (at least in the context of Holy Books).

amugae
07-08-2010, 11:55 AM
I think anyone religious has the right to be offended by this game, because the game, though fictional in nature, is saying that all religions are false. If someone suggested to me, even in a not-so-serious tone, that everything I believed in is wrong, then I'd be a bit bothered to say the least. And my reaction would understandable by anyone with a sliver of common sense.

And it doesn't matter that the game was made by "people of various beliefs", I could say something bad about my own race/nation/creed and it could still be offensive.

So basically what I'm saying is, let those who want to be offended be offended, as is their right. Stop arguing with them and leave them alone. You will be doing them and yourself a favor, believe me.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Here you mention two things I will address. 1)Everyone knows the Muslims believe the Christian scriptures are incorrect, and visa versa down the line with all the books and religions. All I'm doing is making it known that this depiction in the gameis inaccurate and inappropriate. And people like you are saying that I'm wrong just for pointing that out. If I heard someone telling me and others about the bibles view of another prophet in a place other than the church, yes i would share what i believe is the correct view or at least say "look I think you need to check your refference before you go spreading mis-information."
A more practical example: Muslims like me are very hurt when we see modern pics of jesus because we know he didn't look like that and he wasn't humiliated like that by his or our "father"

2) to say I dismissed your response is another inaccurate statement. I reposted the conversation of those 5 points on the first page, but maybe you missed it, which is understandable due to the increase in traffic.
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:

Do you get riled up over every bible you see? Or every Torah you come by? Because both those books talk about Adam and Eve (and a ton of other stuff Islam discusses) and neither of them depicts it the way it's written in the Koran. That's all this is as well. Another look at things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> with that said, read the 5 reasons i gave for someone speaking out against someone who speaks falsely of their religion. counter those 5 points if you really want to show that your point is valid. I edited my original post to include that conversation

I already did, but you decided to dismiss it and argue things that suited you better instead. See a pattern? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

EmperorxZurg
07-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by amugae:
I think anyone religious has the right to be offended by this game, because the game, though fictional in nature, is saying that all religions are false. If someone suggested to me, even in a not-so-serious tone, that everything I believed in is wrong, then I'd be a bit bothered to say the least. And my reaction would understandable by anyone with a sliver of common sense.

And it doesn't matter that the game was made by "people of various beliefs", I could say something bad about my own race/nation/creed and it could still be offensive.

So basically what I'm saying is, let those who want to be offended be offended, as is their right. Stop arguing with them and leave them alone. You will be doing them and yourself a favor, believe me.

eh, I know completely religious people who read the Holy Book everyday (Myself included) and we're not offended. We know it's a work of fiction, and maybe it's just my religion, but if it happened and is here, God let it happen for a reason. So no use fussing about it. It's understandable some people get upset. But when they post a whole thread about it, people will discuss it...hopefully and not just flame.... lol

Rompipalle1488
07-08-2010, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by MetalX2010:
Man I love being an atheist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
IKR!!!
So much easier than believing in something that doesn't exist.

El_Sjietah
07-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
Here you mention two things I will address. 1)Everyone knows the Muslims believe the Christian scriptures are incorrect, and visa versa down the line with all the books and religions. All I'm doing is making it known that this depiction in the gameis inaccurate and inappropriate. And people like you are saying that I'm wrong just for pointing that out. If I heard someone telling me and others about the bibles view of another prophet in a place other than the church, yes i would share what i believe is the correct view or at least say "look I think you need to check your refference before you go spreading mis-information."
A more practical example: Muslims like me are very hurt when we see modern pics of jesus because we know he didn't look like that and he wasn't humiliated like that by his or our "father"

That's a big step back from being offended and wanting it corrected.


2) to say I dismissed your response is another inaccurate statement. I reposted the conversation of those 5 points on the first page, but maybe you missed it, which is understandable due to the increase in traffic.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:

Do you get riled up over every bible you see? Or every Torah you come by? Because both those books talk about Adam and Eve (and a ton of other stuff Islam discusses) and neither of them depicts it the way it's written in the Koran. That's all this is as well. Another look at things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> with that said, read the 5 reasons i gave for someone speaking out against someone who speaks falsely of their religion. counter those 5 points if you really want to show that your point is valid. I edited my original post to include that conversation </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I replied to those. Then you replied to my points. I, in turn, replied to those points and then you decided to ignore half my post because you "wouldn't respond to most of my reply because false statements refute themselves for men of understanding". That's politician speech for "I don't agree, but don't know how to reply, so I'll just state it's wrong without providing arguments and leave it at that".

SchwiftyCrooze
07-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Rompipalle1488:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MetalX2010:
Man I love being an atheist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
IKR!!!
So much easier than believing in something that doesn't exist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UH OH! You are gonna get yelled at by the guys above. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif O well, to me religion just isnt my cup of tea and im surprised UBI hasnt closed this form because its turning into a kind of ****ing match.

notafanboy
07-08-2010, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Rompipalle1488:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MetalX2010:
Man I love being an atheist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
IKR!!!
So much easier than believing in something that doesn't exist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
i know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif religion is cool but not when someone like that comes here and... forget it .......

Murcuseo
07-08-2010, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Rompipalle1488:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MetalX2010:
Man I love being an atheist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
IKR!!!
So much easier than believing in something that doesn't exist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm half way between an agnostic and an athiest, an agnosthiest if there is such a thing... lol

I don't believe there is a god or an afterlife but I'm more than willing to accept other peoples beliefs on the premise it actually helps them deal with life. It's when someones beliefs cause them to be volatile and antogonistic I start to have trouble with it.

The best kind of faith, is the faith in ones self. If you can't achieve that then god is your next best bet lol

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 12:20 PM
I agree with those who are saying we should end this. I stated before that my question had already been answered, and no one has convinced me logically that this content should not be seen as inappropriate to people who value the scriptures and teachings of their religions. It's up to me if I want to send mail to the dev team or take some action, then they can either make adjustments, apologize or lose one insignificant customer,or 2 or 3.

EmperorxZurg
07-08-2010, 12:23 PM
ya just send a letter to 'em truth chaser. And the other guys, seriously, Have I made fun of your religions? Lay off okay? Whether I believe in Him or not doesn't make me weaker or believe I can't trust myself, so I'd really appreciate it if you didn't talk like that.

mikeh1294
07-08-2010, 12:32 PM
I still want to know what he finds offensive! I haven't had a proper answer.

He said that the nudity and theft were offensive, but that's how the holy books record it, is it not?

Crucify Lucifer
07-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
So what most of you agree on is that because it's a game there are no limits to how the developers can express their opinion or fictional perspective of MY RELIGION, but I don't have any right to voice how I feel about the game?

In all seriousness though, since when was it the developer's opinion of Islam that Adam and Eve climbed Abstergo buildings with a fancy golden piece of fruit? They aren't specifically altering any religion, but showing alternate truths in a fictional story. And are you offended by the multiple beings that are above humans at the end? Since Islam is a monotheistic religion, wouldn't the idea of multiple beings overseeing humanity desecrate the idea of one true god?

Ubisoft wasn't spreading any sort of propaganda about any religion or any beliefs through this game. They were merely rewritten for the sake of a very entertaining game. And anyone who seriously believes that Adam and Eve were crawling up buildings that manufactured magical golden baskets of fruits is as delusional as the people who think that Tom Hanks discovered Jesus's descendant or the people who play MW2 then decide they want to join the USMC thinking they will get to run around knifing Taliban from 50 feet away to call in a nuke on their camp. It's utter folly to take games seriously.

truthchaser2kx
07-08-2010, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by mikini:
I still want to know what he finds offensive! I haven't had a proper answer.

He said that the nudity and theft were offensive, but that's how the holy books record it, is it not?

All you need to know is the way it's depicted is contrary to the way I actualy believe in the whole account. As far as why I believe what I do, and how it's written in what book I won't go into because I don't have that righ. Forums have rules. I'll send you a PM. Why? because if I post all of that information here it will get completely off topic and ther will be a lot of talk about how I explain it, how the scholars interperet it, and how everyone else feels about it. So PM me and I'll respond if your really interested just for the sake of helping you understand my point.

lilbacchant
07-08-2010, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by truthchaser2kx:
I agree with those who are saying we should end this. I stated before that my question had already been answered, and no one has convinced me logically that this content should not be seen as inappropriate to people who value the scriptures and teachings of their religions. It's up to me if I want to send mail to the dev team or take some action, then they can either make adjustments, apologize or lose one insignificant customer,or 2 or 3.

I don't really understand how you expected logic to approve or disapprove your beliefs in the first place. Logic is based upon reason, whereas belief is an emotional attachment to an idea and being offended is an emotional reaction. In otherwords, logic and belief are mutually exclusive ways of thinking.

Whether or not someone is offended by the content of AC, or anything for that matter, is purely based upon their personal beliefs and whether said content causes them to feel belittled in some fashion. If both of those conditions are met, someone will echo your feelings. If not, they won't. Neither condition has anything to do with logic, analysis, or reason.

Asking whether someone should be offended is similar to asking whether someone should be happy, sad, or indifferent. One can logically infer why someone might, or might not, react emotionally to any given condition based upon their beliefs, but logic can't determine whether they should or shouldn't, for that, in and of itself, is an emotional value judgment.

I suspect that you will find most people, in this forum at least, will react to your question with fear vs. agreement. That is, fear that your complaint of being offended reflects intolerance, which is itself the first step toward censorship. To expect anything other than an emotional reaction to an opinion about belief is, at best, naive.

FaTaLMeTaL
07-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Are you insane..How can you be offended this is game ffs.If you are trying to get attention its not gonna happen..

Silhouelle
07-08-2010, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by FaTaLMeTaL:
If you are trying to get attention its not gonna happen..
Oh the irony. ^^;

Murcuseo
07-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by FaTaLMeTaL:
Are you insane..How can you be offended this is game ffs.If you are trying to get attention its not gonna happen..

Better be careful Xanatos doesn't put a claim in for Royalties on that sig usage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Xanatos2007
07-08-2010, 01:41 PM
FaTaLMeTaL
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-044.gif

kleaneasy
07-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Religious debate/ arguing just as politics rarely sees a polite discussion but heated arguments, insults and abuse etc which is why we don't encourage such discussions in these forums.

The forums are family friendly and the rules reflect this, given many of the posts in this thread have already over stepped the mark and many more will undoubtedly follow I'm closing this thread.

Remember re posting a closed thread is against the rules so please don't even think about it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif