PDA

View Full Version : J2M3 and J2M5 : Spelling Error of Skin



J_Anonymous
08-11-2006, 09:07 AM
I admire the new beautiful screenshot of J2M5 in the forthcoming SoM Add-on (http://rrgstudios.com/img/manchu/13_full.jpg).

While looking at the screeshot, I noticed some minor errors and inconsistencies of Japanese spelling of the warning signs on rudder, elevator, and aileron, on both J2M5 and J2M3;

"ª"'ƒ*("Don't push")

and

ƒŽƒƒ*("Don't step on")

I am a native Japanese speaker.

[1] The red warning sign of the rudder (below J-J2-6) lined up vertically should be spelled


"'
ƒ*

instead of

ƒ*
"'


The Japanese language is written vertically from top to bottom. never from bottom to top.....

[2] Elevator warning signs : These days, when Japanese is written horizontally, we write from left to right, like

"ª"'ƒ*

but back old days they often wrote from right to left on cars etc. So

ƒ*"'"ª

may be OK. But I would suggest to check the original photo again. In fact, similar warning signs of A6M Zero's are written from left to right in PF.

[3] If they did indeed write from right to left on J2's, then I would guess the marking of the ailerons,

ƒŽƒƒ*

should also be spelled from right to left as follows.

ƒ*ƒƒŽ.

I hope this helps.

FritzGryphon
08-11-2006, 07:37 PM
Anyone without your particular language set will see ??? in place of the characters.

LEBillfish
08-11-2006, 09:12 PM
Using the Ki-61 as my example.......No step and don't push markings which covered many components of the plane you'll note have no set direction.......Right to left, left to right, up to down and down to up. At first I wondered if I was looking at reverse photographs, then checked to see if the katakana were backward as though they had reversed the stensil to match the planes contours from side to side........Neither were correct.

Quite simply, the katakana were placed in every direction...Though consistant from plane to plane, were not from side to side or part to part of a single plane.

The explination given me?.......That's the beauty of it, they could be placed in whatever direction (though order remained the same) and it was understood. It was also mentioned "many" planes were like that.

So, given it was acceptable on the Ki-61 (have not checked others persoanally)....and in that it was supposedly done the same on others....I'd bet it is "possible" it may have been so on the planes you mention. Photographs will grant your answer.

J_Anonymous
08-11-2006, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Using the Ki-61 as my example.......No step and don't push markings which covered many components of the plane you'll note have no set direction.......Right to left, left to right, up to down and down to up. At first I wondered if I was looking at reverse photographs, then checked to see if the katakana were backward as though they had reversed the stensil to match the planes contours from side to side........Neither were correct.

Quite simply, the katakana were placed in every direction...Though consistant from plane to plane, were not from side to side or part to part of a single plane.

The explination given me?.......That's the beauty of it, they could be placed in whatever direction (though order remained the same) and it was understood. It was also mentioned "many" planes were like that.

So, given it was acceptable on the Ki-61 (have not checked others persoanally)....and in that it was supposedly done the same on others....I'd bet it is "possible" it may have been so on the planes you mention. Photographs will grant your answer.

Traditionally, Japanese was written vertically, top to bottom. The second column would be on left hand side of the first. Never bottom to top. This is probably because until 19th century, they used Chinese style brush and black, chacoal ink. You would smear the ink if you write and go up.

I don't know exactly when horizontal writing style was introduced, but probably after Meiji Restitution in the 19th century, but I could be wrong.

"Right to left" is an older style as I mentioned, and I am not surprised if they indeed mixed right to left and left to right, for symmetrical beauty for instance. As recent as in 80's or even 90's, still you could find a pickup truck with something written "left to right" on the left-hand-side of a car, and "right to left" on the right-hand-side of the car. (Somehow carpenters liked that style, don't ask me why.)

On the other hand, I would be really perplexed if somebody EVER wrote from bottom to up!! It's like

"Hsup t'noD" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Well. Of course nothing is impossible. Maybe somebody with absolutely no planning skills painted the first charcter, then climed up a ladder and painted the second character, then finished the job by climbing up another step? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It's somewhat difficult for me to believe that the rudder warning sign was commonly written from bottom-to-top. Or, did they reason, the first character to be read by a passer-by of the aircraft would be close to the ground level, hence the first character near the ground level? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif If it was indeed common, I would be curious to know the reasoning, as I have NEVER encountered "bottom-to-top" writing in my life (in any culture, for that matter. I know some middle eastern languages are written from right to left.)

LEBillfish
08-11-2006, 10:08 PM
After looking at a number of books and photographs of these planes, sadly I can find no photo's that show the markings clear enough to give an answer.........So again I'll revert back to my above "possibility".

However, I will mention this.......I doubt this is something that maddox games will fix, their answer most likely being........"So, do it different on your skin"......As really it is just a paint issue.

Sorry I could not find a firm answer.

Akira_sama
08-12-2006, 01:55 AM
the same problem occurs in the cockpit of Ki-61; the instructions of radiactor indicator and flaps position indicator have been reversed.

Willey
08-12-2006, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Anyone without your particular language set will see ??? in place of the characters.

I'm German, and my Browser is Unicode UTF-8 - I see them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Foo.bar
08-12-2006, 04:36 AM
I can see it as well with unicode UTF-8.
Good work, J_Anonymous.

J_Anonymous
08-12-2006, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As really it is just a paint issue.
Oh well, really no big deal, even I didn't notice the backward writing for months, who else cares? except the only problem being.... "O-Su-Na" means "don't push", but "Na-Su-O' sounds like one of those Japanese male names (which tend to end with "O", which means "male"). And, Na-Su means............... "Egg plant". So we are flying Egg Plant Man. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LEBillfish
08-13-2006, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Akira_sama:
the same problem occurs in the cockpit of Ki-61; the instructions of radiactor indicator and flaps position indicator have been reversed.

?????? Real vs. Sim:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/flaps.jpg

J_Anonymous
08-13-2006, 09:57 AM
Interestingly, both #14 and #15 are written from left to right.

#14 in the game reads;

"Re-i-kya-ku-ki to-bi-ra ka-ku-do shi-ji (cooling-system door opening-angle indicator). Chinese characters inside the upper-left and upper-right corners read

"O-N (warm)" and "Re-i (cool)"


#15 reads

"sa-ge-yo-ku ka-ku-do shi-ji (flap angle indicator)."

Chinese characters inside the circle at lower left and right corners read

"U-e (up)" and "Shi-ta (down)".

Some of the Chinese/Japanese charcters in the cockpit of Ki-61 are not right, although I can still guess and read what the modeller meant to write. For example, "to-bi-ra (door)" and "o-n (warm)". Looking at the cockpit of another plane (don't remember which one), "water-pressure" is misspelled, too. I guess the Oleg's team didn't consult with a native Japanese speaker after thr programming work was done.

goshikisen
08-13-2006, 10:05 AM
The IJN also used the left to right / right to left variation on their destroyers. They typically would paint the name of the ship along both the port and starboard side in large katakana characters. Some would have the name written from right to left. Akizuki is a good example.

LEBillfish
08-13-2006, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
Interestingly, both #14 and #15 are written from left to right................ I guess the Oleg's team didn't consult with a native Japanese speaker after thr programming work was done.

Actually, what I would "guess" is the Maddox team and 3rd party developers didn't need to, in that most likely they simply copied from photographs like I showed above. At that point if copied "correctly", then right or wrong it is how it was written back then, so correct for the modelling.

J_Anonymous
08-13-2006, 01:00 PM
They obviously used a typeset, perhaps from word-processors, for the markings of cockpit indicators of newly modeled planes, for example G4. Those are not "hand-copied-by-programmers-from-photo" characters (hence inaccurate) like the ones on J2M, and I do suspect native speakers helped them. I hope BoB series will bring even better cockpits for all IJN/IJA planes.

joeap
08-14-2006, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As really it is just a paint issue.
Oh well, really no big deal, even I didn't notice the backward writing for months, who else cares? except the only problem being.... "O-Su-Na" means "don't push", but "Na-Su-O' sounds like one of those Japanese male names (which tend to end with "O", which means "male"). And, Na-Su means............... "Egg plant". So we are flying Egg Plant Man. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MaxMhz
08-14-2006, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
I hope BoB series will bring even better cockpits for all IJN/IJA planes.
??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine too many Japanese planes flew in the Battle of Britain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I'd rather have Oleg & team concentrate on some real issues than wasting their time on Japanese scribbles that hardly anyone can read anyway.

joeap
08-14-2006, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by MaxMhz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
I hope BoB series will bring even better cockpits for all IJN/IJA planes.
??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine too many Japanese planes flew in the Battle of Britain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I'd rather have Oleg & team concentrate on some real issues than wasting their time on Japanese scribbles that hardly anyone can read anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow nice to dismiss thousands of current/future FB/BoB players. The world doesn't end in Europe.Furthermore, I understand BoB is the first of a series that may get to the Pacific again, so we could hope for more accurate Japanese planes.

Waldo.Pepper
08-14-2006, 03:27 PM
THIS IS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION!

And I for one am learning something from it, unlike 90% of the other pissing and moaning threads here lately.

Thanks to the contributors.

Haigotron
08-15-2006, 11:47 AM
Actually, what I would "guess" is the Maddox team and 3rd party developers didn't need to, in that most likely they simply copied from photographs like I showed above. At that point if copied "correctly", then right or wrong it is how it was written back then, so correct for the modelling.

unless the photos themselves are mirrored images perhaps from the scanning or using negatives mirrored...

stathem
08-15-2006, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
THIS IS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION!

And I for one am learning something from it, unlike 90% of the other pissing and moaning threads here lately.

Thanks to the contributors.

Just had to say, +1

Haigotron
08-15-2006, 01:13 PM
unless the photos themselves are mirrored images perhaps from the scanning or using negatives mirrored...

nevermind unless they are symmetrical kanji/katakana/hiragana...my above argument is wrong...

Don_X
08-15-2006, 01:30 PM
Just a thought , certain skins mirror text when applied to the model.