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View Full Version : Proof that the 109 is overmodeled



9th_Spitin
08-07-2005, 02:11 PM
I took this picture in WC's of a 109 flying without wings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/kbbrech/03.jpg

AerialTarget
08-07-2005, 02:26 PM
That's nothing. I have a track (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/quick0069.ntrk) of a Focke-Wulf 190 doing it. In fact, he was doing it for a lot longer than the length of the track, since I only thought to record the phenomenon some time after I first saw him flying around without wings. Flying without wings! The nerve of some people!

He does land kind of hard, though.

x__CRASH__x
08-07-2005, 08:24 PM
I see spitfires fly by with only one wing. I doubt those are my settings! It just couldn't be!

JFC_Warhawk
08-07-2005, 09:32 PM
Its a bug. If I remember correctly, the wings on the spit disappeared arount patch 3.04 and stayed gone until patch 4.0 when you could finally see one wing from a distance.

SlickStick
08-08-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by JFC_Warhawk:
Its a bug. If I remember correctly, the wings on the spit disappeared arount patch 3.04 and stayed gone until patch 4.0 when you could finally see one wing from a distance.

It is also only the Mk VIII Spitfire that visually loses one wing at distance. It's how you can pick them out in a furball as you approach, lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I see spitfires fly by with only one wing. I doubt those are my settings! It just couldn't be!

Totally true and it isn't satisfactory fixed in 4.01. In fact even the wing shadow cannot be seen on ground.

________________________________________________

Also about what thread author posted, nice pic showing just how superior Bf-109 'shark-like' design was. Allowing the pilot to fly it for short period of time without wings...

SlickStick
08-08-2005, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I see spitfires fly by with only one wing. I doubt those are my settings! It just couldn't be!

Totally true and it isn't satisfactory fixed in 4.01. In fact even the wing shadow cannot be seen on ground. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not only that, look at the ground shadow of a Mk. VIII. The canopy is always open in the shadow. There have always been shadow issues since IL-2, much like the fact that all 109s (or at least all that I have I checked recently) have the square wing tips shadow of an Emil. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SlickStick
08-08-2005, 06:27 PM
Wow, just checked again, Atomic. I was flying a Mk. VIII CW and watching the shadow on the ground at different altitudes. I never looked to see if the shadow was disappearing with the wing at distance.

The right wing disappears in the shadow at certain heights, as well as the shadow reverts between a non-CW Spitfire and a CW Spitfire at a few hundred meters off of the ground.

So, considering the post-Emil 109's and the Mk. VIII's shadow issues, I'm guessing shadows are "canned" in the code, instead of rendered in real-time?

Sorry to hijack your thread, Spitin. Just thought we'd expand a little on the graphics theme of that 109 with his wings shopped, um, shot off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LeadSpitter_
08-08-2005, 07:54 PM
Thats one of the invinciple cheats, I wont say exactly how to do it but involves notepad. I know many online who know of this and get mad that 1c wont reply back or fix it, its been around since sturmovik, whats mad is they are angry that it wont get fixed and out of thier angry they tell everyone how to do it.

Theres others like timeskip online, device link working online, eventlog plotting of enemy coords, speedxp, hexediting dm weapon weights, and a few others.

then others that say is cheating printsrn and quicktrackrecord which really dont do anything if pings are low but lock up the users pc a little with very rare minimal warp.

For these I suggested oleg added a command line showing

username has pressed print screen
username has started to record a quick nettrack
username has stopped quick netrack

He wrote back and has considered it but has never been implemented and probally was forgotten about. But thats the only thing i can think of to let the moderators of servers take care of it themselves then writing alot of code ro prevent it.

Its very rare to see most, theres many threads on the sukuoi formus about that specific inviniple dm cheat

Unfortunatly no game is fully uncheatable in but this game has the least out of any game i have seen.

p1ngu666
08-09-2005, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
Wow, just checked again, Atomic. I was flying a Mk. VIII CW and watching the shadow on the ground at different altitudes. I never looked to see if the shadow was disappearing with the wing at distance.

The right wing disappears in the shadow at certain heights, as well as the shadow reverts between a non-CW Spitfire and a CW Spitfire at a few hundred meters off of the ground.

So, considering the post-Emil 109's and the Mk. VIII's shadow issues, I'm guessing shadows are "canned" in the code, instead of rendered in real-time?

Sorry to hijack your thread, Spitin. Just thought we'd expand a little on the graphics theme of that 109 with his wings shopped, um, shot off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

shadow models are made by the 3d modeler, what has probably happened is the planes are often made in half, then u clone the other side. so some parts will have been missed, also with all teh LOD's mustbe placed in exactly the same place in the final file, so theres ALOT there, really easy for mistakes to happen

Bobsqueek
08-09-2005, 09:32 AM
That shadow bug spoiled a perfectly good troll thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I wish id put the seafire shadow in the pictures now

SlickStick
08-09-2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Thats one of the invinciple cheats, I wont say exactly how to do it but involves notepad. I know many online who know of this and get mad that 1c wont reply back or fix it, its been around since sturmovik, whats mad is they are angry that it wont get fixed and out of thier angry they tell everyone how to do it.

Theres others like timeskip online, device link working online, eventlog plotting of enemy coords, speedxp, hexediting dm weapon weights, and a few others.

then others that say is cheating printsrn and quicktrackrecord which really dont do anything if pings are low but lock up the users pc a little with very rare minimal warp.

For these I suggested oleg added a command line showing

username has pressed print screen
username has started to record a quick nettrack
username has stopped quick netrack

He wrote back and has considered it but has never been implemented and probally was forgotten about. But thats the only thing i can think of to let the moderators of servers take care of it themselves then writing alot of code ro prevent it.

Its very rare to see most, theres many threads on the sukuoi formus about that specific inviniple dm cheat

Unfortunatly no game is fully uncheatable in but this game has the least out of any game i have seen.

Quite a sad list there, Lead. I actually pity the squads and pilots that have to use those cheats to boost their fragile egos and pretend that they have honor online. There are quite a few actually. Some even setting up their home servers to intentionally allow squad cheating. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The funniest part though, is that these cheatists think everyone they fly against is naive and doesn't know what they are doing. Sheesh, this series has been out for almost 5 years now people, wake up!!!

Two quick rules of thumb...

1. Lag CANNOT always be beneficial to a certain pilot's position and should happen infrequently between high-end machines and cable connections. Lag is random, it is not systematic, maneuvering warp everytime you merge with that certain pilot or they start to get into trouble.

2. Any bomber pilot online that drops bombs from a few hundred meters with zero fuse and flies away undamaged consistently, is a Packet Loss pilot. These are the same bombers that riddle your plane and you never see one tracer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Then, they come across knowledgeable folk who know exactly what's what on HL and who's who. The rest of us just laugh over the HL chat about it. I like to make sure the loser knows I know.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Oh and BTW, they would have you think that it's your problem or people are just crying Wolf!, but in my experience, 95% of the time I'm waxing the cheater anyways and I feel it my duty to point them out so others can watch them and see the same thing, making up their own minds as they go back on engagements they've had with said individuals in the past and all of a sudden.....BAM! it hits them like a ton of bricks.

SlickStick
08-09-2005, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Wow, just checked again, Atomic. I was flying a Mk. VIII CW and watching the shadow on the ground at different altitudes. I never looked to see if the shadow was disappearing with the wing at distance.

The right wing disappears in the shadow at certain heights, as well as the shadow reverts between a non-CW Spitfire and a CW Spitfire at a few hundred meters off of the ground.

So, considering the post-Emil 109's and the Mk. VIII's shadow issues, I'm guessing shadows are "canned" in the code, instead of rendered in real-time?

Sorry to hijack your thread, Spitin. Just thought we'd expand a little on the graphics theme of that 109 with his wings shopped, um, shot off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

shadow models are made by the 3d modeler, what has probably happened is the planes are often made in half, then u clone the other side. so some parts will have been missed, also with all teh LOD's mustbe placed in exactly the same place in the final file, so theres ALOT there, really easy for mistakes to happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the 411, P1ngu. still, it doesn't fully explain why 109 shadows have been this way since the beginning. I mean, surely this could have been changed since IL-2?!?

Granted, shadows don't play a major role in the game, but disappearing wings (and planes) sure do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

9th_Spitin
08-09-2005, 10:12 AM
Cheating makes the cheater weaker and those of us that fly against them that much better.

SlickStick
08-09-2005, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:
Cheating makes the cheater weaker and those of us that fly against them that much better.

Which brings up a great point....

HOSTS, don't forget to learn how to setup and use the MAX LAG and Speed Check settings in your conf.ini before launching server. Unfortunately, the speed check lines are now missing from PF on a clean install and must be added manually to use them.

(I'd post the two lines for cut and paste, but my conf.ini file is at home.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SlickStick
08-09-2005, 06:03 PM
These are the two lines that HOSTS need to add to their conf.ini files if they want to limit/prevent Speed Hacks on their servers:

(exact spelling)

checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.03
checkTimeSpeedInterval=3

The above values set for 3%, 3 SECs

They go into the [NET] section below these two lines:

checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1

Set both lines above to "1" to check speed of server and client and set the other two numbers for Percentage and Seconds of allowed time difference between server and client.

So, all together the last 4 lines in the [NET] section should look like this:

checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.03
checkTimeSpeedInterval=3

Atomic_Marten
08-09-2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
Wow, just checked again, Atomic. I was flying a Mk. VIII CW and watching the shadow on the ground at different altitudes. I never looked to see if the shadow was disappearing with the wing at distance.

No problem mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Posts such as this yours I just quoted, are VERY rare in our community. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Usually there is no answer at all when it becomes obvious.

Best regards. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Thats one of the invinciple cheats, I wont say exactly how to do it but involves notepad. I know many online who know of this and get mad that 1c wont reply back or fix it, its been around since sturmovik, whats mad is they are angry that it wont get fixed and out of thier angry they tell everyone how to do it.

Theres others like timeskip online, device link working online, eventlog plotting of enemy coords, speedxp, hexediting dm weapon weights, and a few others.

then others that say is cheating printsrn and quicktrackrecord which really dont do anything if pings are low but lock up the users pc a little with very rare minimal warp.

For these I suggested oleg added a command line showing

username has pressed print screen
username has started to record a quick nettrack
username has stopped quick netrack

He wrote back and has considered it but has never been implemented and probally was forgotten about. But thats the only thing i can think of to let the moderators of servers take care of it themselves then writing alot of code ro prevent it.

Its very rare to see most, theres many threads on the sukuoi formus about that specific inviniple dm cheat

Unfortunatly no game is fully uncheatable in but this game has the least out of any game i have seen.

Good post Leadspitter. If I may just add that it would be good if PRT SRC, and NRTK are made 'optional' settings. So they can be turned off in game settings just like unlimited ammo.

SlickStick
08-09-2005, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Wow, just checked again, Atomic. I was flying a Mk. VIII CW and watching the shadow on the ground at different altitudes. I never looked to see if the shadow was disappearing with the wing at distance.

No problem mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Posts such as this yours I just quoted, are VERY rare in our community. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Usually there is no answer at all when it becomes obvious.

Best regards. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Thats one of the invinciple cheats, I wont say exactly how to do it but involves notepad. I know many online who know of this and get mad that 1c wont reply back or fix it, its been around since sturmovik, whats mad is they are angry that it wont get fixed and out of thier angry they tell everyone how to do it.

Theres others like timeskip online, device link working online, eventlog plotting of enemy coords, speedxp, hexediting dm weapon weights, and a few others.

then others that say is cheating printsrn and quicktrackrecord which really dont do anything if pings are low but lock up the users pc a little with very rare minimal warp.

For these I suggested oleg added a command line showing

username has pressed print screen
username has started to record a quick nettrack
username has stopped quick netrack

He wrote back and has considered it but has never been implemented and probally was forgotten about. But thats the only thing i can think of to let the moderators of servers take care of it themselves then writing alot of code ro prevent it.

Its very rare to see most, theres many threads on the sukuoi formus about that specific inviniple dm cheat

Unfortunatly no game is fully uncheatable in but this game has the least out of any game i have seen.

Good post Leadspitter. If I may just add that it would be good if PRT SRC, and NRTK are made 'optional' settings. So they can be turned off in game settings just like unlimited ammo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In game Print Screen is still limited to one every ten seconds, but rapid fire ones are available with third party programs like FRAPS.

I like the idea of disabling the NTRK feature server side to stop abuse of it. Some have hated online tracks from the start because it let people make tracks of their own whuppings and study how to battle the person who whupped'em, lol.

Frankly, I like this feature. It brought the competition level up faster than not having it would have, IMO.

Flying better pilots makes me a better pilot. My utmost respect to the pilot who downs me in a nice, smooth, real time dogfight without the hoochie-koochie, warp, rattle and roll of controlliing the space-time continuum.

Ooh, I worked that back in there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif....the title of the thread keeps'em clicking and a few Hosts learn a little something along the way....

WOOHOO! (_8(?)

SlickStick
08-12-2005, 08:54 AM
As Lead stated, thankfully the cheats available for this game are limited and with the max lag and speed check, we have tools to help keep our servers smooth. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TAGERT.
08-12-2005, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:
I took this picture in WC's of a 109 flying without wings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/kbbrech/03.jpg Bet that wont stop Izzzy from claiming it has flettner tabs on the ailerons! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
08-12-2005, 03:05 PM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Flettner.jpg

This photo only proves the Flettner was used in combat Tagert. The object falling from the Bf109 is obviously a detached Flettner. Even though this picture is from a sim, it is absolute proof.