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larschance
11-02-2008, 02:34 PM
An ex workmate who was part of the RAF during and after WW2 told me this amusing story. I hope you enjoy it. No offense to American friends intended.
He worked on De Havilland Hornet twin engined fighters in the late 1940s. The USAAF had just received the Shooting Star jet fighters and boasted about how modern their air force was compared to the RAF.
One day as a flight of jets passed their base the RAF Squadron Leader took off and climbed into cloud above and behind the Shooting Stars. He then dived switching off one engine just before he zoomed past the astonished jet pilots. The boasting ceased after that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

AWL_Spinner
11-02-2008, 02:55 PM
Continuing a fine and distinguished tradition, that. There is an apocryphal story from an earlier year of someone doing something somewhat similar in the Hornet's elder sibling...



A lightly-loaded Mosquito performed so well with an engine out that pilots said DH had designed it as a single-engine aircraft, and added a second engine for good luck. According to one story, later in the war an incautious American at the controls of a Martin B-26 Marauder, itself regarded as a fairly hot twin-engine aircraft, once challenged a Mosquito pilot to a race. The Mosquito left the B-26 in the dust, flying past inverted with one prop feathered.

Taylortony
11-02-2008, 03:06 PM
When the Dams raids were on they were out testing a Lanc that had been stripped of all excess weight for the raid, so was the GT version, they spied a B17 approaching from astern that was known to be a faster ship than the standard Lanc, so the test pilot throttled back to allow the B17 approach........ soon she was level and overtaking, the reduced Lanc crew could see the Americans grinning broadly as the B17 overtook the Lanc, at which point the test pilot nailed all 4 of the lancs throttles to the wall and as she leapt fwd like a scalded cat he proceeded to barrel roll around the startled B17 before disappearing into the distance leaving a B17 crew behind and dumbstruck with a tale to tell that no one would ever believe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

general_kalle
11-02-2008, 04:06 PM
read a poem about how a B24 dived down, cut the engines(or was it only 3 of them?) and glided past the B17 during a flight from the states to england. Just to prove that the B24 was faster

Phil_C
11-02-2008, 05:18 PM
Im suprised noone has brought this up- in these stories the "slower" airplane has been put into a dive to pass the "faster" airplane.

Anyone want to comment on that part of the story?

leitmotiv
11-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by larschance:
An ex workmate who was part of the RAF during and after WW2 told me this amusing story. I hope you enjoy it. No offense to American friends intended.
He worked on De Havilland Hornet twin engined fighters in the late 1940s. The USAAF had just received the Shooting Star jet fighters and boasted about how modern their air force was compared to the RAF.
One day as a flight of jets passed their base the RAF Squadron Leader took off and climbed into cloud above and behind the Shooting Stars. He then dived switching off one engine just before he zoomed past the astonished jet pilots. The boasting ceased after that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


There have been a million variants on this---as I understand it's the fliers' version of the traveling salesman joke: the first time I saw this was a story about a B-24 crew espying a B-17 while both were crossing over the Atlantic to the UK. The B-17 was at a lower altitude so the B-24 dived down and passed the 17 like it was standing still. The B-17 crew was overhead yelling about a super fast B-24.

jarink
11-02-2008, 07:00 PM
Slight variation on this story/joke:

An F4 Phantom pilot was getting really bored while escorting a B-52 over SE Asia. He expressed his boredom by showing off his maneuverability to the Buff crew; capping it off with a barrel roll around the larger plane.

Said the Phantom jockey: You poor bomber pukes, you can't beat flying a fighter!

Buff pilot: I'll bet there's something I can do that you [i]can't[/t]!

F4 pilot: No way! Let's see it!

Buff: <pauses for a few seconds> There!

F4 pilot: What? I didn't see anything!

Buff: I just shut down TWO engines. Let's see you top that, buddy!

na85
11-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
When the Dams raids were on they were out testing a Lanc that had been stripped of all excess weight for the raid, so was the GT version, they spied a B17 approaching from astern that was known to be a faster ship than the standard Lanc, so the test pilot throttled back to allow the B17 approach........ soon she was level and overtaking, the reduced Lanc crew could see the Americans grinning broadly as the B17 overtook the Lanc, at which point the test pilot nailed all 4 of the lancs throttles to the wall and as she leapt fwd like a scalded cat he proceeded to barrel roll around the startled B17 before disappearing into the distance leaving a B17 crew behind and dumbstruck with a tale to tell that no one would ever believe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aren't the waist gunners not strapped in in a Lanc? What did they do while he was barrel rolling upside down?

MarkGos
11-02-2008, 09:14 PM
Lanc Waist Gunners - I hope you jest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Skoshi Tiger
11-03-2008, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by na85:
Aren't the waist gunners not strapped in in a Lanc? What did they do while he was barrel rolling upside down?

A properly executed barrel roll is one of the most gentle aerobatic manuvers. The plane is in positive G at all times and the stress on the plane aren't that great. There was a promotial video, on youtube, for a light twin made in the 70's (I'll try to remember which one) where the pilot placed a full glass of water on the dash of his aircraft and performed a barrel roll without spilling it.

Taylortony
11-03-2008, 04:12 AM
Your talking about Bob Hoover in a Rockwell Aero Commander.

"Cats Eyes" Cunningham the WW2 war Ace whilst displaying the new Comet jet airliner (in his new role as test pilot for the said Company) to the Board of Directors of De Havilland, barrel rolled it on the flypast in front of them.... despite assuring them he was only pulling 1G positive throughout the roll and was not doing any damage at all to the aircraft was asked by the board not to do it again.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for the diving technique to get up more speed, the current Sia Marchetti SF260 has a max speed that is only attainable in level flight by pulling it up and diving.... normal straight and level and I cannot remember the figures is something like 170 kts, but if you do a shallow climb and descent back to straight and level it will exceed that figure by about 15 kts and stay there....... In case you wonder what one is, it is the black thing on the chase at the start of the new James Bond Movie..... though that is the TurboProp version, the one I used to look after and fly in was a piston variant.

Bremspropeller
11-03-2008, 06:24 AM
There have been a million variants on this---as I understand it's the fliers' version of the traveling salesman joke: the first time I saw this was a story about a B-24 crew espying a B-17 while both were crossing over the Atlantic to the UK. The B-17 was at a lower altitude so the B-24 dived down and passed the 17 like it was standing still. The B-17 crew was overhead yelling about a super fast B-24.


The version I know is a bit different:
Same as above, but while making the speed-pass, the Lib had two of it's engines shut down and the props feathered.

The gag was, you couldn't unfeather props in-flight on a B-24. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
11-03-2008, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
When the Dams raids were on they were out testing a Lanc that had been stripped of all excess weight for the raid, so was the GT version, they spied a B17 approaching from astern that was known to be a faster ship than the standard Lanc, so the test pilot throttled back to allow the B17 approach........ soon she was level and overtaking, the reduced Lanc crew could see the Americans grinning broadly as the B17 overtook the Lanc, at which point the test pilot nailed all 4 of the lancs throttles to the wall and as she leapt fwd like a scalded cat he proceeded to barrel roll around the startled B17 before disappearing into the distance leaving a B17 crew behind and dumbstruck with a tale to tell that no one would ever believe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aren't the waist gunners not strapped in in a Lanc? What did they do while he was barrel rolling upside down? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends on what stripped of all excess weight means.

Divine-Wind
11-03-2008, 07:34 AM
Just a note, the Lancaster never had waist gunners. In fact, off the top of my head, I can't think of any British-designed bombers that incorporated waist gunners. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Originally posted by Phil_C:
Im suprised noone has brought this up- in these stories the "slower" airplane has been put into a dive to pass the "faster" airplane.

Anyone want to comment on that part of the story?
Makes sense. Anything can go faster if it lets gravity help.


Originally posted by jarink:
Slight variation on this story/joke:

An F4 Phantom pilot was getting really bored while escorting a B-52 over SE Asia. He expressed his boredom by showing off his maneuverability to the Buff crew; capping it off with a barrel roll around the larger plane.

Said the Phantom jockey: You poor bomber pukes, you can't beat flying a fighter!

Buff pilot: I'll bet there's something I can do that you can't!

F4 pilot: No way! Let's see it!

Buff: <pauses for a few seconds> There!

F4 pilot: What? I didn't see anything!

Buff: I just shut down TWO engines. Let's see you top that, buddy!
ROFL

berg417448
11-03-2008, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
Your talking about Bob Hoover in a Rockwell Aero Commander.

"Cats Eyes" Cunningham the WW2 war Ace whilst displaying the new Comet jet airliner (in his new role as test pilot for the said Company) to the Board of Directors of De Havilland, barrel rolled it on the flypast in front of them.... despite assuring them he was only pulling 1G positive throughout the roll and was not doing any damage at all to the aircraft was asked by the board not to do it again.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Tex Johnston did the same thing with the Boeing 707.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz...p&resnum=4&ct=title# (http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=tex+johnston+707+roll&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#)

LEXX_Luthor
11-04-2008, 02:11 AM
DH Hornet is some News to me. We don't hear much about this in Ussia. A good thread would compare Hornet and F-82.

Another is F-86 and B-36.

F-86 pilots liked to pick on B-36s. One B-36 pilot simply entered a sustained steep climb the Sabres could not match.

Schwarz.13
11-04-2008, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
Slight variation on this story/joke:

An F4 Phantom pilot was getting really bored while escorting a B-52 over SE Asia. He expressed his boredom by showing off his maneuverability to the Buff crew; capping it off with a barrel roll around the larger plane.

Said the Phantom jockey: You poor bomber pukes, you can't beat flying a fighter!

Buff pilot: I'll bet there's something I can do that you can't!

F4 pilot: No way! Let's see it!

Buff: <pauses for a few seconds> There!

F4 pilot: What? I didn't see anything!

Buff: I just shut down TWO engines. Let's see you top that, buddy!

I thought you were gonna say the Buff pilot went to the john! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Kocur_
11-04-2008, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Just a note, the Lancaster never had waist gunners. In fact, off the top of my head, I can't think of any British-designed bombers that incorporated waist gunners. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Some Wellingtons had them.

WOLFMondo
11-04-2008, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
DH Hornet is some News to me. We don't hear much about this in Ussia. A good thread would compare Hornet and F-82.


Eric Brown does a nice piece on the SeaHornet trials in one of his books. They are quite similar aircraft in terms of performance.

R_Target
11-06-2008, 06:37 AM
Capt. Richard Linnekin and his wingman stunned a couple of DH Vampire pilots by getting on their tails in F8F Bearcats.

berg417448
11-06-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
DH Hornet is some News to me. We don't hear much about this in Ussia. A good thread would compare Hornet and F-82.

Another is F-86 and B-36.

F-86 pilots liked to pick on B-36s. One B-36 pilot simply entered a sustained steep climb the Sabres could not match.

In his book. "Fighter Pilots Heaven" Donald Lopez wrote about how a lightly loaded B-36 could turn surprisingly well at high altitudes and during mock intercepts they gave the F-80 pilots a difficult time...and a rare opportunity for the B-36 pilots to gloat!

PhantomKira
11-06-2008, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
Your talking about Bob Hoover in a Rockwell Aero Commander.

"Cats Eyes" Cunningham the WW2 war Ace whilst displaying the new Comet jet airliner (in his new role as test pilot for the said Company) to the Board of Directors of De Havilland, barrel rolled it on the flypast in front of them.... despite assuring them he was only pulling 1G positive throughout the roll and was not doing any damage at all to the aircraft was asked by the board not to do it again.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Tex Johnston did the same thing with the Boeing 707.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz...p&resnum=4&ct=title# (http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=tex+johnston+707+roll&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the reasons the 707 sold so well. People saw that maneuver at a demonstration a Boeing field, and not knowing the aerodynamics involved, went crazy. Being in aw, they bought the aircraft in large numbers.