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hmkim
01-07-2006, 10:15 AM
Even when the joystick is centered, my plane (usually the Bf 109 or Fw 190) always keeps on slightly rolling to the left or right. I have that problem with my 2 joysticks (MS FF Pro and Saitek Evo FF). I've even tried flying with only the keyboard thinking that my josticks are not too precise, but the plane keeps slightly rolling. Any thoughts?

ST__Pawnee
01-07-2006, 10:24 AM
That's just the way they are. Without trim you can't keep the plane perfectly level. They are trimmed for cruise speed (I think), so if you are much over or below that speed, you'll notice it the way you said. The way I solve it, is that I tap either , or . . They work kinda like trim, but will reset once you use rudder again.

voyager_663rd
01-07-2006, 10:25 AM
engine torque pulls it over. in effect, the plane starts trying to rotate opposite to the engine.

hmkim
01-07-2006, 10:25 AM
Maybe I should've said "my plane always keeps banking to the left or right." I'm a newbie and having a ton of fun in this sim.

hmkim
01-07-2006, 10:26 AM
Sorry for posting again:-) I'm flying in an easy mode, so there's no torque or flutter effect...

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-07-2006, 10:31 AM
It sounds like you are out of trim. Trim is something that is constantly changing dependant on your speed and thus requires constant attention to be able to fly straight and level hands-off. You don't have a problem. It's intinsic to the programmed flight characteristics.

TB

|CoB|_Spectre
01-07-2006, 10:34 AM
Welcome to the world of a flight sim with realistic dynamics. Real airplanes designed for maneuverability are inherently unstable. Of course this is all relative with some being more or less stable than others, but if you want an aircraft capable of hard maneuvers, it will not be particularly docile.

That being said, this sim more or less accurately models the effects of engine torque which, depending on a given power setting, will exert a varying aerodynamic force. Higher power settings will make the nose move left (if the prop is turning clockwise as seen from the pilot's seat, or nose right if the prop turns counter-clockwise). A reduction in power will render effects opposite to those just mentioned. On aircraft equipped with 3-axis trim for pitch (elevators), roll (ailerons), and yaw (rudder), you can adjust to compensate for a given power setting or to maintain stable (aka "trimmed") flight. Not all aircraft have trim for all three axis, some (i.e., 109s, 190s, Zeros) do not have rudder trim or even ailerons trim on some models. These will require a certain amount of rudder input to maintain coordinated flight or stick roll input to maintain wings-level.

Learning to use trim effectively will reduce pilot workload (you won't have to be so precise about maintaining stick position). Learn to refer to your turn-and-bank indicator, especially the little "slip/skid" ball inclinometer in the bottom of the T&B indicator. Keeping the ball centered means your tail is coordinated with your wings whether in a turn or in level flight. If the ball is off center to the right, "step on the ball" (add right rudder) to bring it back to center. The same applies to the left if the ball is off center to the left. Some planes simply require more effort from the pilot and cannot be flown "hands-off". Others, particularly those with 3-axis trim, can be trimmed to stability. I hope this helps.

heywooood
01-07-2006, 12:02 PM
even with 'easy' settings there are still some actual flying simulations affecting your virtual plane - you must 'fly' it a little and not expect to just apply power and have her sail along on a rail.

please enjoy the effects of torque and the need for trim and the need to be 'hands on' to properly fly this sim. You will get more satisfaction when you can perform a co-ordinated turn - or a smooth landing - or a combat manoever of your choice if you will accept the challenge.....or you can just use the auto pilot feature and forget you read this.

Viking-S
01-07-2006, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by hmkim:
Maybe I should've said "my plane always keeps banking to the left or right." I'm a newbie and having a ton of fun in this sim.

No! No! No! No! You haven€t been paying attention! You have to try each and every patch there is and then comment on them in a degrading way. Then you will have to chose side and accuse 1C and Oleg to be biased to the other side as all the airplane and ammo on the other side are €œuber€. Now go back and repent and come back as a real Pacific Fighter.
Oh yeah! You need to get yourself banned at least once to be accepted here.

slo123
01-07-2006, 01:40 PM
i havent been banned (yet) does that mean im an outsider ??

Hurricane_320
01-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by slo123:
i havent been banned (yet) does that mean im an outsider ??

Same question x 2!

Taylortony
01-07-2006, 06:56 PM
I've not been banned either am i slipping up too............... I might have to get rough then to get banned, you Mods you all smell funny.......... there i'm a rebel too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
01-07-2006, 07:59 PM
Fighters are naturally unstable, if they arent unstable they dont make good fighters.

he best fighter is one that is unstable yet controllable, and as these are almost opposites, you have to find a compromise between the two.

You have a few trim settings on fighters for elevators and rudder, but I hardly ever use them, I just compensate with my stick.

I use trim on bombers tho, so that I can make a cup of tea while its flying to the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Davion1985
01-07-2006, 08:56 PM
I usually fly with Normal settings or above, but just for giggles I tried Easy. It turns out my plane banks harder to the left or right in Easy then it does in Normal/Realistic. Would that be attributed to a defective joystick, or is that just how it is? I can get relatively level flight in Normal/Realistic when trimming, etc. But in Easy nothing seems to stop the banking.

VW-IceFire
01-07-2006, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by slo123:
i havent been banned (yet) does that mean im an outsider ??
Five billion to the power of ten posts here and no ban...I'm accepted...maybe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NonWonderDog
01-07-2006, 11:27 PM
It's actually kind of an oversight on Oleg's part with respect to the difficulty settings.

The planes are trimmed on the roll axis for a certain airspeed and throttle setting. This works fine when the engine torque is enabled; the engine tries to bank the plane in one direction while the trim tries to bank it in the other (all depending on airspeed, throttle, rpm, altitude, etc.).

The problem is that this kind of trim is usually built directly into the plane's geometry. The Yakovlev fighters have asymetric wings (!), for instance, while the German fighters have a cambered vertical stabilizer. The effects of these types of devices are *NOT* disabled by turning off torque effects in the options. Consequently, turning torque off in the options will cause most fighters to roll constantly in the same direction as the propeller.

I suggest that you turn torque effects on in the options. Because of the trim oversight, most planes will actually be easier to fly with this option on. The only real difficulty created by turning engine torque on is a strong rolling moment when flying at low speed and high power, but you should be able to adapt relatively quickly. Just remember to be *very* careful on aborted landing attempts.

Davion1985
01-07-2006, 11:54 PM
Thanks for that information, NonWonderDog http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I was just wondering about that because I thought it odd and was beginning to think that maybe it was a problem on my end, since I seem to be unlucky that way. Hehe.

It's a good thing I usually never touch Easy.

antifreeze
01-08-2006, 05:25 AM
Just to take this thread further with a query which I have had for sometime. Back in the early 3.x versions, I would estimate that about 60% of the allied fighters had aileron trim (as well as elevator and rudder), so that rolling could be countered. However, I have yet to come across an allied fighter in 4.x that actually has aileron trim. Does anyone happen to have a current quick list of aircraft that do have three-way trim?
Cheers.