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DavidRiveros
06-19-2011, 03:34 AM
When I first heard this line I wanted to apply it to my life, it felt so liberating, I fell in love with AC decided to experience every part of the series from spin-offs, books and the movie in entirety. Then the saddest thing happened, the ending of ACII destroyed my notion of this creed along with the affection I had towards the series. I mean if there's going to be a holographic figure that resembles a 'spirit' it implies about something happening after death, or the idea of Gods is pretty much in the same spectrum. This to me was a huge dissapointment and every impressive idea from the apple in the paintings to the historical photos of Thomas Edison was just evaporated. Just having Ezio pronounce the words 'Are you Gods?' him, being an assassin, puts doubt of the whole creed/storyline in the minds of the player, not clever. Had it been a holographic recording would've showed propriety to the creed. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Corey May's next plot twist involves stating that the creed's maxim is actually a self-contradiction so the assassin's were always wrong.
I've only played AC and ACII and have now lost interest in the rest of the franchise, I don't respect it anymore. Please post your disagreement to my words as is most accustomed in forums. Quite happy to be wrong right now.

Inorganic9_2
06-19-2011, 04:15 AM
Does anyone actually listen to what is being said in the games? TWCB are not gods. Minerva says it herself. "No, not gods. We simply came before". It is a hologram using some sort of lost technology.

I'm pretty sure that any renaissance human confronted with a hologrma in a shiny vault which tells them that they are called "Minerva" or some other name known to be applied to cassical gods would at least say "are you a god?"

Assassin_M
06-19-2011, 04:30 AM
pardon my humble intelligence, but can you clear things up ? because i dont understand your Problem

Turkiye96
06-19-2011, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Does anyone actually listen to what is being said in the games? TWCB are not gods. Minerva says it herself. "No, not gods. We simply came before". It is a hologram using some sort of lost technology.

I'm pretty sure that any renaissance human confronted with a hologrma in a shiny vault which tells them that they are called "Minerva" or some other name known to be applied to cassical gods would at least say "are you a god?"

this guy is right TWCB created humans and then they died off or something and the humans (through time) thought of them as myths or gods.

also you really should put a spoiler alert in the title

and it says Ezio is an athiest (nothing it true everything is permited) and thats why he is asking if it truely is a god because he thinks there are no gods... get it? but you might wana look up on hassan sabbah (the actual learder of the assassins and the character al mualim was based on.) who used to drug young guys send them to his beautiful garden with women wine and food . and trick them into thinking they were in heaven (as they were on drugs) , when they passed out he would send them to their bed and tell them how reality is fake and he can do anything like make them go to heaven so its ok if you die because if you die for me you will go to heaven. and so thats how he got a bunch of very loyal assassins who would almost always die after killing their target. we see this happening at the very very start of assassin's creed 1 as he is in the back garden of the castle and everything is blury and women are surrounding him.

phil.llllll
06-19-2011, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:

hassan sabbah (the actual learder of the assassins and the character al mualim was based on.)

Actually Al Mualim is based on Rashid ad-Din Sinan. Though technically he is based off - or rather styled from - the character Hassan i Sabbah from the novel Alamut.

Pavan_NL
06-19-2011, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
we see this happening at the very very start of assassin's creed 1 as he is in the back garden of the castle and everything is blury and women are surrounding him.

I've read this before, but I always thought it was just a bugged version of memory block 7(right?). As they were trying to access the last memory block and you can actually hear Al Mualim's "I applied my heart to know wisdom" speech.

phil.llllll
06-19-2011, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Pavan_NL:
I've read this before, but I always thought it was just a bugged version of memory block 7(right?). As they were trying to access the last memory block and you can actually hear Al Mualim's "I applied my heart to know wisdom" speech.

Yep, it is. I guess maybe it could be thought of symbolically though; like in a way it was meant to be everyones initiation into the series, as it does sort of coincide with a drug like state and the whole gardens and paradise* state.

*The place actually has the name paradise in game.

Inorganic9_2
06-19-2011, 09:50 AM
The memories were flying round all over the place. I imagine the memory being shown there was actually a mix of the whole women in the garden thing/Al Mualim in the garden (where is that voice coming from in the last sequence anyway?!)

Though there's nothing to say that initiation actually happened :P

DavidRiveros
06-19-2011, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Does anyone actually listen to what is being said in the games? TWCB are not gods. Minerva says it herself. "No, not gods. We simply came before". It is a hologram using some sort of lost technology.

I'm pretty sure that any renaissance human confronted with a hologrma in a shiny vault which tells them that they are called "Minerva" or some other name known to be applied to cassical gods would at least say "are you a god?"

this guy is right TWCB created humans and then they died off or something and the humans (through time) thought of them as myths or gods.

also you really should put a spoiler alert in the title

and it says Ezio is an athiest (nothing it true everything is permited) and thats why he is asking if it truely is a god because he thinks there are no gods... get it? but you might wana look up on hassan sabbah (the actual learder of the assassins and the character al mualim was based on.) who used to drug young guys send them to his beautiful garden with women wine and food . and trick them into thinking they were in heaven (as they were on drugs).... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a way of interpreting it, I see it as: if he is an atheist why even ask 'Are you Gods?'. But the problem here is, that he wasn't drugged and this holographic figure answers questions in real time (so not reeaally dead) and knows the future. I mean any who knows the future has absolute power. Maybe they're extraterrestrials like the Astronaut theory of creation. But the beauty of AC and Matrix or Batman Begins, for example, is that there is a basis in the story that it could be true, with this Minerva, not only is that idea destroyed but the creed might as well be all false. It's like saying we're not Gods, ppl just call us that...and I'm dead, yet I can still answer your questions, I know the future and still allowed humans to destroy us superior, immortal/dead
(or something) beings who are not Gods.

Friedrich Nietzsche talks about the real freedom of this creed from the orignal assassins in the 'Genealogy of Morality' non of this spirit-like holographic bullsh*t

kriegerdesgottes
06-19-2011, 07:48 PM
Oh I know how disappointing it is to hear about being able to exist after death. Sorry that your dreams of rotting in the ground and you just no longer existing got crushed by AC, I know that must be difficult for a liberal like yourself. I know how much you must hate the game now because Ezio may have had the concept of a God in his mind. You know what we should do? all just not like AC anymore because they coincide with your beliefs! That's what acceptance and tolerance is all about for liberals right! Everything is ok unless it's against your opinions then it's offensive and off putting and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

BingChandler
06-19-2011, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Oh I know how disappointing it is to hear about being able to exist after death. Sorry that your dreams of rotting in the ground and you just no longer existing got crushed by AC, I know that must be difficult for a liberal like yourself. I know how much you must hate the game now because Ezio may have had the concept of a God in his mind. You know what we should do? all just not like AC anymore because they coincide with your beliefs! That's what acceptance and tolerance is all about for liberals right! Everything is ok unless it's against your opinions then it's offensive and off putting and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

I'm pretty sure atheism and a lack of an afterlife are still two themes which AC embraces wholesale, at least from the views of the respective assassins. Sibrand said it best when he voiced his fear that nothing waited for him.

I don't know why you seem so offended, it just seems the concept of no afterlife is a big underpinning of the series. Ezio's conversation with Minerva did little to shake this theme.

Honestly, the whole series is largely based on explaining religious "miracles" as a form of science-fiction; i.e. crediting the PoEs with almost every breakthrough in human history. That secular kind of storyline seems to take a negative view of the afterlife, I would imagine.

Calvarok
06-19-2011, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by DavidRiveros:
When I first heard this line I wanted to apply it to my life, it felt so liberating, I fell in love with AC decided to experience every part of the series from spin-offs, books and the movie in entirety. Then the saddest thing happened, the ending of ACII destroyed my notion of this creed along with the affection I had towards the series. I mean if there's going to be a holographic figure that resembles a 'spirit' it implies about something happening after death, or the idea of Gods is pretty much in the same spectrum. This to me was a huge dissapointment and every impressive idea from the apple in the paintings to the historical photos of Thomas Edison was just evaporated. Just having Ezio pronounce the words 'Are you Gods?' him, being an assassin, puts doubt of the whole creed/storyline in the minds of the player, not clever. Had it been a holographic recording would've showed propriety to the creed. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Corey May's next plot twist involves stating that the creed's maxim is actually a self-contradiction so the assassin's were always wrong.
I've only played AC and ACII and have now lost interest in the rest of the franchise, I don't respect it anymore. Please post your disagreement to my words as is most accustomed in forums. Quite happy to be wrong right now.
The ancient race of NOT GODS actually confirms the creed. All the mythological figures humanity worships are actually misinterpretations of the actual beings that created humanity, who just had really advanced technology and special abilities, an extra sense.

DavidRiveros
06-19-2011, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Oh I know how disappointing it is to hear about being able to exist after death. Sorry that your dreams of rotting in the ground and you just no longer existing got crushed by AC, I know that must be difficult for a liberal like yourself. I know how much you must hate the game now because Ezio may have had the concept of a God in his mind. You know what we should do? all just not like AC anymore because they coincide with your beliefs! That's what acceptance and tolerance is all about for liberals right! Everything is ok unless it's against your opinions then it's offensive and off putting and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Gee how subtle is your anger and desperation to have me believe your way, with sarcasm and indirect insults.
The plot upset me because it contradicted itself, not me or my beliefs. Unlike you who is upset for my beliefs contradicting yours.
Don't put words in my mouth either, I didn't insinuate or encourage any your sarcastic hostile words I supposedly meant.
Like I said I want to be wrong, but u proved me right. It went farfetched and now I see it as a silly story.
I find it amusing that whatever level of dissapointment I felt is nothing compared to the level of rage you just demonstrated.

Calvarok
06-19-2011, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by DavidRiveros:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Does anyone actually listen to what is being said in the games? TWCB are not gods. Minerva says it herself. "No, not gods. We simply came before". It is a hologram using some sort of lost technology.

I'm pretty sure that any renaissance human confronted with a hologrma in a shiny vault which tells them that they are called "Minerva" or some other name known to be applied to cassical gods would at least say "are you a god?"

this guy is right TWCB created humans and then they died off or something and the humans (through time) thought of them as myths or gods.

also you really should put a spoiler alert in the title

and it says Ezio is an athiest (nothing it true everything is permited) and thats why he is asking if it truely is a god because he thinks there are no gods... get it? but you might wana look up on hassan sabbah (the actual learder of the assassins and the character al mualim was based on.) who used to drug young guys send them to his beautiful garden with women wine and food . and trick them into thinking they were in heaven (as they were on drugs).... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a way of interpreting it, I see it as: if he is an atheist why even ask 'Are you Gods?'. But the problem here is, that he wasn't drugged and this holographic figure answers questions in real time (so not reeaally dead) and knows the future. I mean any who knows the future has absolute power. Maybe they're extraterrestrials like the Astronaut theory of creation. But the beauty of AC and Matrix or Batman Begins, for example, is that there is a basis in the story that it could be true, with this Minerva, not only is that idea destroyed but the creed might as well be all false. It's like saying we're not Gods, ppl just call us that...and I'm dead, yet I can still answer your questions, I know the future and still allowed humans to destroy us superior, immortal/dead
(or something) beings who are not Gods.

Friedrich Nietzsche talks about the real freedom of this creed from the orignal assassins in the 'Genealogy of Morality' non of this spirit-like holographic bullsh*t </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The things is, they're dead, and they're not coming back. They learned how to see the future somehow, probably through their sixth sense, and they left messages. They can't live forever. Brotherhood actually has one of them talk about how they tried to stop death, but could not evade it's path. AC does not say "THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE", it says "THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ONE, WE DON'T KNOW, BUT THE ONES YOU'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT ARE MERELY MISINTERPRETATION, GUESSWORK, AND ATTEMPTS AT CONTROL.".

Ezio is an atheist, but you don't have to be one to be an Assassin. His "faith" was shaken when he saw Minervra. Sister Tedora knows that there is no God as he was portrayed, but who created those who created humans? She belives that something created the universe, and she calls it God. And the Creed permits her to do this, to believe what she wants. That's what the Creed is about: find your own answers, believe what you want about what you find, unless you find evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: The Creed really says nothing about there being an afterlife or not. Like, at all. So, don't know why you thought it did.

Applying the Creed to your life would mean distrusting all major corporations and people who tell others to believe in something. And since real life is generally not conspiracy-ridden, that would be a crappy life.

DavidRiveros
06-19-2011, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DavidRiveros:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Does anyone actually listen to what is being said in the games? TWCB are not gods. Minerva says it herself. "No, not gods. We simply came before". It is a hologram using some sort of lost technology.

I'm pretty sure that any renaissance human confronted with a hologrma in a shiny vault which tells them that they are called "Minerva" or some other name known to be applied to cassical gods would at least say "are you a god?"

this guy is right TWCB created humans and then they died off or something and the humans (through time) thought of them as myths or gods.

also you really should put a spoiler alert in the title

and it says Ezio is an athiest (nothing it true everything is permited) and thats why he is asking if it truely is a god because he thinks there are no gods... get it? but you might wana look up on hassan sabbah (the actual learder of the assassins and the character al mualim was based on.) who used to drug young guys send them to his beautiful garden with women wine and food . and trick them into thinking they were in heaven (as they were on drugs).... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a way of interpreting it, I see it as: if he is an atheist why even ask 'Are you Gods?'. But the problem here is, that he wasn't drugged and this holographic figure answers questions in real time (so not reeaally dead) and knows the future. I mean any who knows the future has absolute power. Maybe they're extraterrestrials like the Astronaut theory of creation. But the beauty of AC and Matrix or Batman Begins, for example, is that there is a basis in the story that it could be true, with this Minerva, not only is that idea destroyed but the creed might as well be all false. It's like saying we're not Gods, ppl just call us that...and I'm dead, yet I can still answer your questions, I know the future and still allowed humans to destroy us superior, immortal/dead
(or something) beings who are not Gods.

Friedrich Nietzsche talks about the real freedom of this creed from the orignal assassins in the 'Genealogy of Morality' non of this spirit-like holographic bullsh*t </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The things is, they're dead, and they're not coming back. They learned how to see the future somehow, probably through their sixth sense, and they left messages. They can't live forever. Brotherhood actually has one of them talk about how they tried to stop death, but could not evade it's path. AC does not say "THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE", it says "THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ONE, WE DON'T KNOW, BUT THE ONES YOU'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT ARE MERELY MISINTERPRETATION, GUESSWORK, AND ATTEMPTS AT CONTROL.".

Ezio is an atheist, but you don't have to be one to be an Assassin. His "faith" was shaken when he saw Minervra. Sister Tedora knows that there is no God as he was portrayed, but who created those who created humans? She belives that something created the universe, and she calls it God. And the Creed permits her to do this, to believe what she wants. That's what the Creed is about: find your own answers, believe what you want about what you find, unless you find evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: The Creed really says nothing about there being an afterlife or not. Like, at all. So, don't know why you thought it did.

Applying the Creed to your life would mean distrusting all major corporations and people who tell others to believe in something. And since real life is generally not conspiracy-ridden, that would be a crappy life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game did mention in an assassination about nothing awaits after death.
Not applying it actually leads to a crappy life in my case, as the creed breeds (for me) freedom, which for some reason I prefer.
But you reminded of when Ezio said belive what you want to belive, don't follow me or anyone. I guess I should try to take that from AC and reject other things, part of me feels that if the whole thing doesn't fit together that it's all invalid.
It just seemed like AC really really promoted the idea of don't let religion or anyone manipulate you into thinking their way, believe what makes you happy, seeing Minerva to me is connected with metaphysical things that erase this.
thanks Calvarok & BingChandler