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todd92371
09-09-2004, 07:07 AM
Hello all,
I have been really trying to get this plane to come into its own down low and it's just not happening. This plane is out of it's element below 3000 M it seems. I have been going from this to the Spitfire and it's night and day. It's the Spitfires realm down low. Couple this with the fact that the AI likes to turn and burn and not boom and zoom and now I see why everyone was saying that the P-51 is out of it's element. Maybe I am flying this plane wrong down low but it sure seems that it is extremely outclassed by the Bf-109's below 3000Meters. Don't get me wrong. The p-51 was a high altitude escort plane and there it really shines. Just need to keep her in her realm and all is fine.
I was wondering if the p-51 pilots ever saw much combat down low in the real war and what was some of the outcomes.

Todd

todd92371
09-09-2004, 07:07 AM
Hello all,
I have been really trying to get this plane to come into its own down low and it's just not happening. This plane is out of it's element below 3000 M it seems. I have been going from this to the Spitfire and it's night and day. It's the Spitfires realm down low. Couple this with the fact that the AI likes to turn and burn and not boom and zoom and now I see why everyone was saying that the P-51 is out of it's element. Maybe I am flying this plane wrong down low but it sure seems that it is extremely outclassed by the Bf-109's below 3000Meters. Don't get me wrong. The p-51 was a high altitude escort plane and there it really shines. Just need to keep her in her realm and all is fine.
I was wondering if the p-51 pilots ever saw much combat down low in the real war and what was some of the outcomes.

Todd

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 07:13 AM
3000 meters is very roughly 6500 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Which model Mustang are we talking about?

And how are you flying it? Are you trying to fly it Spitfire style down low? Do you have 8 hours worth of fuel with you? Are you flying full power and pitch through your turns?

We're gonna need more info.

Historically, US pilots were not afraid to tangle with anyone in the ETO below these altitudes, and in fact did much low-level flying, looking for targets to strafe. The standard practice for flaming a 262 was catching them while taking off and landing, which requires low altitudes, and the Germans flew cover for the jets with 109s. Didn't bother the Mustang pilots much, from what i read.

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Clash

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-09-2004, 07:18 AM
The only real difference in the Spit and the Stang is the wing. The large wing area of the Spit makes it more responsive than the Mustang down low (roll-rate be damned). Both had the Merlin and were good performers at higher altitudes, but the Spitfire's design make it a better performer down low.

If you get below 3k in the mustang, keep your airspeed up. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 07:28 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif
fuel weight

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anarchy52
09-09-2004, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
...and the Germans flew cover for the jets with 109s. Didn't bother the Mustang pilots much, from what i read.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, perhaps you should read some more, for example 109G10 is a VERY dangerous opponent for P-51 low/medium alt. Cannon arnament, more HP (with boost), less weight, lower wingloading, better climbrate and only 5km/h slower on sea level.

On the other hand in FB P-51 is very good even in low & slow turnfights which was a VERY unwise thing to do for real P-51 pilots. P-51 is a high alt energy fighter, low T'n'B was not how it was ment to be used.

MEGILE
09-09-2004, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>P-51 is a high alt energy fighter, low T'n'B was not how it was ment to be used. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto for 109s.
If you go low and get whacked by a Spitfire, ask yourself why you were there in the first place.

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horseback
09-09-2004, 08:08 AM
Anarchy-

What Chuck was speaking of was RL situations. The Messerschmitt cover (what little there was, due to fuel and maintenance shortages) was not much of a factor in preventing Mustangs, Spitfires, Thunderbolts or Tempests from swooping down from on high to pick off the jets when they were low and slow. Orbiting over the airfield area at low to medium alts themselves, they were not likely to be in position to intercept a flight diving down from higher levels.

Pilot memoirs indicate that they were much more concerned about the airfield flak batteries. They'd get in, make a high speed pass on the jet, and get outa Dodge, rarely getting slow enough for the 'protection flights' to catch them, assuming that the other members of their flight hadn't picked off one or two of them on their way through.

Capitalizing on their already substantial speed advantage from the dive they could just run away, having created as much havoc and confusion as possible. Sticking around and dogfighting was not part of the program.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 08:08 AM
Anarchy, before you advise someone to learn something or read some more, maybe you should read my post.

Did I ever say that the Mustang could out-manuever a 109, any 109, at any altitude? Or that the Mustang was superior to the 109?

Did I even indicate the Mustang could do this or that to defeat the 109 at any altitude?

No. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

I said the 109 flew top cover and the P-51 pilots didn't mind much. And that's all I said, you even quoted it.

The rest came from you little brother. Not me. Take your bullsh!t attitude and go try to school somebody else, you're in over your head, sonny.

If you think I said that the Mustang was a better dogfighter than the 109 at low speed, you should take a refresher course in reading comprehension.


-Older out

Blutarski2004
09-09-2004, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
3000 meters is very roughly 6500 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Chuck, for the sake of accuracy -

3,000 meters is actually 9,842.4 feet. One meter = 3.2808 feet.

BLUTARSKI

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 08:16 AM
Well, 6 is roughly 9, innit? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Clash

anarchy52
09-09-2004, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The rest came from _you_ little brother. Not me. Take your bullsh!t attitude and go try to school somebody else, you're in over your head, sonny.

If you think I said that the Mustang was a better dogfighter than the 109 at low speed, you should take a refresher course in reading comprehension.
-Older out<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no need to be rude and uncivilized - it gives you no credit or add weight to your arguments, also it creates a lot of unnecessary tension and hostility of which there is plenty of on this forum as it is. Are you a Yank by any chance?

As for "being bothered", pilots in WWII were very young, highly motivated but inexperienced and undertrained (by today's standards), lot of them considered themselves invincible and took unnecessary risks. The most succesfull were those that survived the moment when they realized that they are mortal and not invincible by far.

csThor
09-09-2004, 08:38 AM
They were not really bothered by the german fighters protecting the airfields because they were most likely some 4:1 or better in numbers (a squadron at best vs usually a full fighter group). The other tactical disadvantage of the german interceptors was very well pointed out by horseback.

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LuftLuver
09-09-2004, 10:30 AM
Heeeere we go again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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SKIDRO_79FS
09-09-2004, 10:47 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif And they'reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee offfffffffff... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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ZG77_Nagual
09-09-2004, 10:57 AM
Flown right it's hard to loose in a mustang. Low and slow turnfighting is not right. Keep your energy and turn it back into alt rather than continue the turn.

Daiichidoku
09-09-2004, 11:09 AM
Nice pic, LuftLover...

Surprised no-one has pointed out the 190D9s were used to cover the 262s as airfield CAP, not 109s

As csThor pointed out, the mustangs dod ok in ETO due to having overwhelming supierority in numbers

In the late war, the Lutfwaffe often had 109Es up...not for lack of late G types, but these were fighter school pilots, and had trained on the Es, so they were sent up in the more familiar mounts...

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The rest came from _you_ little brother. Not me. Take your bullsh!t attitude and go try to school somebody else, you're in over your head, sonny.

If you think I said that the Mustang was a better dogfighter than the 109 at low speed, you should take a refresher course in reading comprehension.
-Older out<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no need to be rude and uncivilized - it gives you no credit or add weight to your arguments, also it creates a lot of unnecessary tension and hostility of which there is plenty of on this forum as it is. Are you a Yank by any chance?

As for "being bothered", pilots in WWII were very young, highly motivated but inexperienced and undertrained (by today's standards), lot of them considered themselves invincible and took unnecessary risks. The most succesfull were those that survived the moment when they realized that they are mortal and not invincible by far.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif You are serious?

OK,

1) read your initial reply to me. Then come back and complain I'm being mean. That's like sucker punching somebody and then crying about fighting fair when they kicked you.

2) Asking if I'm a Yank gives you away much too easily as a thin skinned chappie who needs to pick a fight. What the deuce does it matter where I am from? If you have problems with "Yanks" I suggest you deal with it elsewhere, that sentiment is not tolerated here. I have noted that folks from the US rarely find the need to bash other countries on this forum. keep your prejudices your problem, do not try to make it mine because that won't work with me.

3) You seem to like to over-simplify your Historical comments. If you'd like to actually discuss it, fine with me. I can discuss it at length. There is a misconception going around it seems to me, that US pilots in WWII were not well trained. Well compared to their IJA and IJN counterparts, that is true. the Japanese military pilot had something like 800 hours of flight time by the end of '41, much of it in combat (against the Soviets and Chinese). But in the area we are talking about, the US pilot's experience level was not a nice uneven mix of a few salty veterans and a bunch of kids who didn't know horse apples from shinola. There were many many combat inexperienced pilots in Mustangs, true. But their leaders didn't just turn them loose and say 'go git some' now did they? No combat leader would let his inexperienced pilots loose from the flight to go find trouble on their own. I can think of a single Mustang pilot who repeatedly did things on his own, Eric Hofer. He was skilled. And he got killed alone. Flight leaders wouldn't allow the kiddies to go romping around the skies on a combat mission.

US pilots had a luxury in that they were trained well away from the combat area in the US. Not so their German opposite numbers. US pilots received very good training from very good instructors- guys like Urban Drew, who was still called "Sir" by pilots that outranked him, but that he had trained. As you can see, I have no trouble talking about the subject. I can also tell you about the courses that US pilots undertook in groundschool, but that's moot at the moment



If you'd like to swap prejudices and anti-US sentiment, take it someplace else, I have no need to take swipes at anyone's country, or to prove myself as intolerant to folks from other cultures as you have so succinctly proven yourself to be. As you yourself pointed out just now, that behavior lends no weight to your argument.

Want to talk P-51s? Great. Want to keep up this rubbish? Fine with me, but do it someplace else with sombody who falls for this sort of B.S. because I ain't buying.

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Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

p1ngu666
09-09-2004, 11:27 AM
25% fuel
use flaps in turn, keep it highspeed
u should be able to give as good as u get, atleast

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LStarosta
09-09-2004, 01:40 PM
Cat fight... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

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Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 01:41 PM
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LStarosta
09-09-2004, 02:50 PM
Rawr.


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Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

Jaws2002
09-09-2004, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:


Historically, US pilots were not afraid to tangle with anyone in the ETO below these altitude...

Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read an old book about the P-51. Got it from a great man, war veteran, he had I think 3 or 4 kills in p-51.
That book clearly states that a lot of the P-51 pilots that flew in the south were afraid of the C-202 and C-205.
Some were afraid to engage them with altitude advantage.
As one pilot said, once you had no speed or altitude advantage the C-202/205 could follow your every move.

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MZ6
09-09-2004, 04:00 PM
No. The Mustang, in my eyes, is equal with the best planes in the game and can win a fight in any period.

WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-09-2004, 04:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
...and the Germans flew cover for the jets with 109s. Didn't bother the Mustang pilots much, from what i read.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, perhaps you should read some more, for example 109G10 is a VERY dangerous opponent for P-51 low/medium alt. Cannon arnament, more HP (with boost), less weight, lower wingloading, better climbrate and only 5km/h slower on sea level.

On the other hand in FB P-51 is very good even in low & slow turnfights which was a VERY unwise thing to do for real P-51 pilots. P-51 is a high alt energy fighter, low T'n'B was not how it was ment to be used.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. You have to take into consideration the many german airbases didn't have very much AMMO/fuel at the end of the conflict. Perahps you should read some more and take into consideration that this isn't 1939.

horseback
09-09-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:


Historically, US pilots were not afraid to tangle with anyone in the ETO below these altitude...

Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read an old book about the P-51. Got it from a great man, war veteran, he had I think 3 or 4 kills in p-51.
That book clearly states that a lot of the P-51 pilots that flew in the south were afraid of the C-202 and C-205.
Some were afraid to engage them with altitude advantage.
As one pilot said, once you had no speed or altitude advantage the C-202/205 could follow your every move.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given that there was very little to visually differentiate between the MC 202, 205 and the 205N, I'd be nervous about engaging these types in anything other than a Mustang or P-47 with a huge alt advantage. That way, if I missed on the bounce, I could just blow on through and run away.

The '5' series Italian fighters all were very capable, and their pilots were pretty good, although their numbers were few. There was no point to dogfighting an aircraft with better DFing tools when you can hit and run.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Atomic_Marten
09-09-2004, 04:25 PM
Hey guys did not want to interrupt your nice talkings, but you really want to see what old Tully's got to say. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=686104012)

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 04:30 PM
I already put up my little kitty paws and surrendered, what more do you want?

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Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 04:37 PM
I know what this thread needs to kiss the boo-boos:


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fordfan25
09-09-2004, 05:18 PM
awwwwwwwwwww cute cats.

LStarosta
09-09-2004, 06:17 PM
That's what I like about you, Chuck...

You're an a-hole, and yet you radiate with sensitivity and compassion... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

WUAF_Badsight
09-09-2004, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by voxdei_:
This plane is out of it's element below 3000 M it seems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i find the massively overmoddeled P-51 Mustang awesome down low & godly up high at turning fights

down low its not as good as other planes at constant turns but itll will beat so many in a single turn

.
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todd92371
09-09-2004, 09:01 PM
I think the thing that put it in perspective for me today was thinking if the p-51 had to take the role of the Spitfire in the Battle of Britain and the Spitfire had to take the role of the P-51 in escorts deep into Germany. That did it for me. Just wont happen.

Atticus

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LEXX_Luthor
09-10-2004, 02:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>p-51 had to take the role of the Spitfire in the Battle of Britain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, they are already asking for P~51D in BoB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Will Oleg cave?


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anarchy52
09-10-2004, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
OK,
1) read your initial reply to me. Then come back and complain I'm being mean. That's like sucker punching somebody and then crying about fighting fair when they kicked you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My post wasn't insulting and I didn't call you names or use bad language. You did.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
2) Asking if I'm a Yank gives you away much too easily as a thin skinned chappie who needs to pick a fight. What the deuce does it matter where I am from?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I consider Your reply and personal attack at me both uninteligent and uncivilized regardless of where You are from. It's just that I have witnessed this kind of behaviour mostly from... hmmm players from certain parts of our planet...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
...There is a misconception going around it seems to me, that US pilots in WWII were not well trained. Well compared to their IJA and IJN counterparts, that is true. the Japanese military pilot had something like 800 hours of flight time by the end of '41,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No no no, You misunderstood : they were vastly undertrained compared to TODAY's standards (they would hardly let You fly a Cessna with the amount of training WWII fighter pilots recieved, much less a high performance warplane on a mission deep into enemy territory).
Compared to their WWII opponents, especially from 43 onwards US pilots had excellent training.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you'd like to swap prejudices and anti-US sentiment, take it someplace else, I have no need to take swipes at anyone's country, or to prove myself as intolerant to folks from other cultures as you have so succinctly proven yourself to be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because I asked You if You were a Yank I'm a chauvignist, anti-US, have culture prejudice, why not add a racist or a nazi maybe?
Jeez, why don't You ask Dubya to bomb my bloody house then?
In less pictoresque words: stop being so damn paranoid.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Want to talk P-51s? Great.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do actually. Now that we got things straight we might talk about something more constructive instead of waisting bandwidth on pissing contest.

anarchy52
09-10-2004, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by voxdei_:
I think the thing that put it in perspective for me today was thinking if the p-51 had to take the role of the Spitfire in the Battle of Britain and the Spitfire had to take the role of the P-51 in escorts deep into Germany. That did it for me. Just wont happen.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spits barely had the range to go from England to French coastal region and back. They couldn't do Mustang's job - if they went to Germany, none would come back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))

BSS_Goat
09-10-2004, 06:45 AM
Who's got the biggest virtual nuts?

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that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it
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TgD Thunderbolt56
09-10-2004, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
Who's got the biggest virtual nuts?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

lrrp22
09-10-2004, 11:45 AM
So now it's 'massively overmodeled', huh Badsight? Until just recently you were only claiming that the Mustang handled too well at low speed. In what other ways is it 'massively' overmodeled'? Have you ever tried to roll a Mustang at low speeds? Is that massively overmodeled too?

BTW, the Mustang should outturn almost anything for one higher speed turn, regardless of altitude.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by voxdei_:
This plane is out of it's element below 3000 M it seems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i find the massively overmoddeled P-51 Mustang awesome down low & godly up high at turning fights

down low its not as good as other planes at _constant_ turns but itll will beat so many in a single turn

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LStarosta
09-10-2004, 01:14 PM
Anarchy, I resent your statements. I am a Pole and I am an American, and I may or may not support what the U.S. is doing in the world today, but you owe us Americans the same kind of respect that you would wish to receive. Same goes for any nationality... Speaking of which, nationality absolutely shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I consider Your reply and personal attack at me both uninteligent and uncivilized regardless of where You are from. It's just that I have witnessed this kind of behaviour mostly from... hmmm players from certain parts of our planet...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe that's because there are more of us than there are of you. Having travelled a bit around the entire U.S. and some of Europe as well, I can tell you that there's stupid people everywhere. Give it a damn rest. You sure aren't representing wherever the hell you're from well either.

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

Xnomad
09-10-2004, 01:43 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Xnomad-Sig.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 03:01 PM
ohh it is Lrrp

its a joke

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

lrrp22
09-10-2004, 03:58 PM
Typical, Badsight. Personal attack instead of a reasoned response.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ohh it is Lrrp

its a joke

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck_Older
09-10-2004, 05:21 PM
Oh, thank God.

This has degenerated into a contest of silly horsehockey. I can finally compete with the washed masses on a level playing field. Bliss! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS
Starosta- I have a URL with cuddly kitten pics if you need it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

LStarosta
09-10-2004, 05:29 PM
That would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

Chuck_Older
09-10-2004, 05:33 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif
http://www.freakyanimals.com/pictures001.shtml

some of the pics are just plain creepy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

p1ngu666
09-10-2004, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
OK,
1) read your initial reply to me. Then come back and complain I'm being mean. That's like sucker punching somebody and then crying about fighting fair when they kicked you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My post wasn't insulting and I didn't call you names or use bad language. You did.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
2) Asking if I'm a Yank gives you away much too easily as a thin skinned chappie who needs to pick a fight. What the deuce does it matter where I am from?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I consider Your reply and personal attack at me both uninteligent and uncivilized regardless of where You are from. It's just that I have witnessed this kind of behaviour mostly from... hmmm players from certain parts of our planet...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
...There is a misconception going around it seems to me, that US pilots in WWII were not well trained. Well compared to their IJA and IJN counterparts, that is true. the Japanese military pilot had something like 800 hours of flight time by the end of '41,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No no no, You misunderstood : they were vastly undertrained compared to TODAY's standards (they would hardly let You fly a Cessna with the amount of training WWII fighter pilots recieved, much less a high performance warplane on a mission deep into enemy territory).
Compared to their WWII opponents, especially from 43 onwards US pilots had excellent training.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you'd like to swap prejudices and anti-US sentiment, take it someplace else, I have no need to take swipes at anyone's country, or to prove myself as intolerant to folks from other cultures as you have so succinctly proven yourself to be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because I asked You if You were a Yank I'm a chauvignist, anti-US, have culture prejudice, why not add a racist or a nazi maybe?
Jeez, why don't You ask Dubya to bomb my bloody house then?
In less pictoresque words: stop being so damn paranoid.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Want to talk P-51s? Great.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do actually. Now that we got things straight we might talk about something more constructive instead of waisting bandwidth on pissing contest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dubya couldnt find it on the map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

El Turo
09-10-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Oh, thank God.

This has degenerated into a contest of silly horsehockey. I can finally compete with the washed masses on a level playing field. Bliss! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS
Starosta- I have a URL with cuddly kitten pics if you need it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here.. try this tasteful mud wrestling photo as a change-of-tone helper!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://wrespics.chat.ru/Image1/MUD_37.jpg

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Chuck_Older
09-10-2004, 05:43 PM
Its like you can see my dreams

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

MEGILE
09-10-2004, 06:35 PM
Is that very sanitary? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

She looks pretty comfortable up there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51darkj.jpg
"Copper, you're smoking crack" - VF-11 Vadge http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LStarosta
09-10-2004, 06:37 PM
Yeah how do mud baths at spa's work?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Typical, Badsight. Personal attack instead of a reasoned response.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

typical Lrrp

anything said about the Mustang in the negative is also a personal slander against yourself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

why do Mustang fans come across as the most anal ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chuck_Older
09-10-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:


why do Mustang fans come across as the most anal ?

.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dunno. maybe they're jerks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/001_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

MEGILE
09-10-2004, 07:40 PM
We do it just for you badsight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51darkj.jpg
"Copper, you're smoking crack" - VF-11 Vadge http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
09-10-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:


why do Mustang fans come across as the most anal ?

.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dunno. maybe they're jerks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/001_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thin girth, sleek, smooth, prolly best for anal of the planeset http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

lrrp22
09-10-2004, 08:32 PM
"ohh it is Lrrp

its a joke"

Funny, I don't see one word about the Mustang in that post. Looks like nothing but a personal attack to me.

Maybe Mustang fans wouldn't be so anal if there weren't revisionists like yourself who constantly lobby to have it modeled as some hapless victim, a la the original FB P-47.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Typical, Badsight. Personal attack instead of a reasoned response.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

typical Lrrp

anything said about the Mustang in the negative is also a personal slander against yourself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

why do Mustang fans come across as the most anal ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kurfurst__
09-11-2004, 06:50 AM
That`s a nice thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/nw2004set7.jpg

We're walking in the air
We're floating in the midnight sky
And everyone who sees us greets us as we fly

FI-Aflak
09-11-2004, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Well, 6 is roughly 9, innit? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

. . . fall mountains, just don't fall on me . . .

who gets the reference?

Anywho, the P-51 turns really well in this game, I'm not afraid to tangle with 109s, especially at airspeeds above 450 km/h, because they start to experience heavy controls. Both planes have really fragile engines though, and I really prefer to energy fight in either of them.

LStarosta
09-11-2004, 04:45 PM
I think we need more kitties... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
09-11-2004, 05:06 PM
discussing politics in RL:

A: See, that's just the way i feel about it..
B: Well, i disagree but i respect your opinion.

discussing politics on the Internet:

A: DIE! YOU DESERVE TO DIE! GO TO HELL AND BURN!
...

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/other%20Stuff/we%20rule%20your%20world3.jpg (http://www.hell-hounds.de)

nixon-fiend.
09-11-2004, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI-Aflak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Well, 6 is roughly 9, innit? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

. . . fall mountains, just don't fall on me . . .

who gets the reference?

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Steve Vai.

No wait,, Jimi Hendrix .

Chuck_Older
09-11-2004, 07:08 PM
If six turned out to be nine, I don't mind
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

heywooood
09-11-2004, 07:11 PM
http://www.hotshotdigital.com/WellAlwaysRemember/JimiHendrix.Images/%20jimi1.jpg


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"check your puns"

Korolov
09-11-2004, 07:38 PM
http://p-38online.com/p38s1.jpg

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Chuck_Older
09-12-2004, 06:46 AM
Jimi was Airborne- but he didn't drive the plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash