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msalama
07-29-2005, 04:23 AM
IL-2 is just great as we all know, but these guys have it down even better. To observe them in action do as follows (works at least in Northern Europe during summertime):

Find an open field with some trees around it. Light up a ciggie, have a cup of coffee from the termos, or indulge in whatever other vices you might have. Then watch.

Soon you'll see them - a flock of swallows at 50-100 m. AGL hunting insects. And oh boy how those little guys fly - B'n'Z, T'n'B, zoom climbs, hammerheads... you name it, it's all there. And at 200-300 KmphIAS too!

Nature, the greatest designer / engineer of them all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG54_Arnie
07-29-2005, 04:53 AM
That would be God. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Very true. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-29-2005, 04:55 AM
Forget the big stuff. For the really amazing FMs go smaller.

Start with a Humming bird. It can fly straight up, stop, hover, pivot and then accelerate away almost instantly. Its wings move so fast you actually can't make out the individual strokes.

Then, if you want something more amazing, look at a dragonfly, perhaps the ultimate flying machine. Its eyes have a refresh rate way above that of a humans, it has reaction times that are HUNDREDS of times superior to our own. It can fly sideways, backwards, fowards, straight up or straight down. The USAF did some studies of Dragonflies in wind-tunnels and promptly gave up in disgust. The little things can accelerate and change direction like not other flying creature on the earth.

I live in Japan and there are tens of thousands of dragonflies in summer, hovering around near the roads. I ride a motorbike to work and can actually see the dragonflies move out of my path like magic when I'm belting down the highway at 65-70 kph. Its phenomenal how agile they are.

Brotrob
07-29-2005, 04:56 AM
Thats so true, a bunch of these lively little birds reguarly hunt around my house in a cramped english town, and they really seem enjoying their outstanding FM ! They are obviously overmodelled compared to those other birds and the poor insects, and dont care about it, just like the bird they got their name from: the 262...

msalama
07-29-2005, 05:43 AM
Yep, dragonflies are just incredible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Go to a nearby pond on a quiet summer night w/ a beer or 2 & watch them guys in action - totally amazing!

Us humans w/ our measly flying machines is just a coarse imitation of the real thing. Be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 05:55 AM
"Nature, the greatest designer / engineer of them all"

Oh no!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif How long it took to design typical WW2 fighter? 6,12,24 months...It took nature to "design" its "airplanes" many tens or hundrets of million yearshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Swallows fly every evening just before my windows. Sometimes makes me wonder how they do without g-suits! Incredible high speed manouvers! In terms of fligh control we are dumbs, if compare best of what we created yet and any, humble...fly. Imagine: thrust and control system governinig adaptive wing, which produces thrust and controls flight of this tiny robot smaller than fly's head! But we are going ahead! By now we can produce wings lighter (size/weight ratio) than fly's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

msalama
07-29-2005, 06:22 AM
It took nature to "design" its "airplanes" many tens or hundrets of million years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, but being the best is never easy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But it's not the hardware only - and ours has definitely improved lately - but the software too. Why, even our most accurate avionics systems just can't compete with nature's own designs, and when it comes to humans flying their machines manually... well, clearly even less competition there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nature's way is the best, and as we know, you just _can't_ beat the best! Sad but true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

han freak solo
07-29-2005, 06:29 AM
Believe it or not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Summer 2004. This happened to me.

At the nearby park with a pond, showing my future stepdaughters simple fishing. They pester me again and again to cast their lines.

So, another piece of bait is cast. As I release, I see out of the corner of my eye two dark objects in the sky to my right moving to the left. The bait has finally lost momentum and is arcing speedily to earth. The line, still arced in the air loosens to a small, lengthy spiral (trying to regain its shape from the reel).

AT THAT MOMENT, one of the objects snags my fishing line suspended 20 feet in the air! A flutter of wings to stay aloft, a valiant effort to no avail. The object comes crashing down to the water with a heavy splash!

Wings still fluttering, I reel in my unintended quarry. Completely stunned, a downed pigeon is now safely ashore. I cut off the line wrapped around one of its toes.

I expected the hapless pigeon to fly away. It was having none of that. The poor pigeon slowly scurried 30 feet away and just stood there.

That was my first surface-to-air victory without using a firearm. Probably my last. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

msalama
07-29-2005, 06:41 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lucius_Esox
07-29-2005, 07:13 AM
So so true,
Not far from where I live in England there is a Birds of prey centre. Eagle heights in Eynsford Kent.

They do a display where someone spins some food on a piece of rope about 5mtrs long.

Awesome! I dont know the name of the bird but it was an African Falcon of some kind. This bird was flying in over the crowds heads (yes he did tell us all to keep absolutley still) at aproaching a 100mph at about 3ft!!!! Then it would swoop up after the first pass and come in again.

Unbelievable flying!! Perfect boom and zoom, and the padlock,, jeez.

Wierd thing though!! I'm no real flyer and my only experiences comes from this sim but I could see the incredible way the bird managed it's energy, perfect..

S'pose they were there first!!!

Daiichidoku
07-29-2005, 07:21 AM
once in my backyard i saw a squirrel loping across the yard

the squirrels then were often raiding birds nests for eggs i suppose, cuz out of nowwhere a robin came down like a stuka, pulled up in the last second to claw at or peck this squirrel!

the next 5 minutes, until that squirrel found cover, it was amazing...the squirrel kept dekeing left and right, to and fro, but just couldnt shake that robin!

the robins flight itself was amazing, kept zooming up, then diving down again fo ranother pass, like straffing a peasant oxcart on a country road in europe...kept it up unitl that squirrel got to some trees

Hoarmurath
07-29-2005, 07:35 AM
mmmh, i don't know, did you checked your swallows ROC from brake release, or from level flight at best climb speed? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

skabbe
07-29-2005, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
mmmh, i don't know, did you checked your swallows ROC from brake release, or from level flight at best climb speed? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

an African or European swallow?

Hoarmurath
07-29-2005, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by skabbe:
an African or European swallow?

mmmmmh.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 08:37 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

You is wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TAGERT.
07-29-2005, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
Nature, the greatest designer / engineer of them all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Greatest? Natures method is desing by trial and error.. Humans *try* to get it right the first time, Nature does not care how many die tring! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 09:33 AM
Yep...
I really dont mean to hurt anyones religious feelings but in fact all we see around is effect of a looong series of accidental mutations. No designer is needed in process of evolution (or at least it can be explained without factor of influence by any conscious being). Hard to belive something as perfect as a swallow can be result of a blind process, as we are limited by our human, pathetically short time perspective.

Lucius_Esox
07-29-2005, 10:10 AM
Yep...
I really dont mean to hurt anyones religious feelings but in fact all we see around is effect of a looong series of accidental mutations. No designer is needed in process of evolution (or at least it can be explained without factor of influence by any conscious being). Hard to belive something as perfect as a swallow can be result of a blind process, as we are limited by our human, pathetically short time perspective.

I agree. Amazes me what we have done in that minuscule window of time..

I wonder when the first powered wing evolved?

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 10:24 AM
"I wonder when the first powered wing evolved?"

Oh boy! All I have on biology is high school education, but let me try:
AFAIK the oldest macro scale animal ehmm "family" still around are insects, so it must be really old "invention". Then it was a looong while before the "technology" was re-used on reptiles, and our todays birds are reptiles derivatives. The newest would be bats as those are mammals.

msalama
07-29-2005, 10:54 AM
Yeah, humans are brilliant engineers, but evolutive process combined with ample resources yields perfect results for the environment it happens in. That's what nature does, and what we humans cannot. Sure it's wasteful and tedious - but the SURVIVING end result is as good as it can be for the circumstances, because it wouldn't have gotten there if it wasn't!

But then again those circumstances change over time...

PS. I'm not religious at all - just had a ciggie break at work today watching swallows do their thing! Amazing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PPS. Just got off the sauna & gonna hit our local Focke-Wulf Cockpit Bar with my baby next, and in a bloody second too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Have a nice weekend guys, but please remember: don't do anything TAGERT wouldn't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TAGERT.
07-29-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
don't do anything TAGERT wouldn't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Wise words from a Wise Guy! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT.
07-29-2005, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
mmmh, i don't know, did you checked your swallows ROC from brake release, or from level flight at best climb speed? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif LOL! You dont know how happy it makes me inside to know I have had such a big impact on your little life! ROTFL!

StellarRat
07-29-2005, 12:59 PM
Yes, yes, birds and insects are highly manueverable and extremely skilled flyers, but I have yet to see a bird exceed the sound barrier or put itself into orbit... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hoarmurath
07-29-2005, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
LOL! You dont know how happy it makes me inside to know I have had such a big impact on your little life! ROTFL!

You don't know how much i'm laughing when i imagine your face when oleg will send you its considerations on your testting method.

Didn't you had some searching to do on ORR btw? It took me less than half an hour to find all of Oleg references to the testing methods to be applied in FB.

Go ahead smart boy, your turn to find them now...

TAGERT.
07-29-2005, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
You don't know how much i'm laughing when i imagine your face when oleg will send you its considerations on your testting method. Why? Are you operating under the impression that I have never been wrong before? Hardly! Happens all the time in Engineering! It is expected and not a big deal, it is how we learn. But, I can see where a half wit working in a small pond where no one ever challegnes him on how well he applys the stamp to the envlope might have his fragle ego crushed when someone disagrees with him.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Didn't you had some searching to do on ORR btw? It took me less than half an hour to find all of Oleg references to the testing methods to be applied in FB.

Go ahead smart boy, your turn to find them now... No need, I have the NASA sight! And smart is a relitive term, and you used it correctly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hoarmurath
07-29-2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
No need, I have the NASA sight!

Lol, i knew you were going to answer that. Oleg is wrong, be sure... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

before you continue, i can predict that before long, you will ask for all US planes to be reworked according to this new, enlightened method of testing.

We know you all too well tagert.

As i can predict also that you will have a very hard time to refrain quoting each of my sentences.

But you will answer. You always do, you just can 't live without having the last word.

BTW Tagert, your P-38L late, was it an african, or an european P-38? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

triggerhappyfin
07-29-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
Believe it or not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Summer 2004. This happened to me.

At the nearby park with a pond, showing my future stepdaughters simple fishing. They pester me again and again to cast their lines.

So, another piece of bait is cast. As I release, I see out of the corner of my eye two dark objects in the sky to my right moving to the left. The bait has finally lost momentum and is arcing speedily to earth. The line, still arced in the air loosens to a small, lengthy spiral (trying to regain its shape from the reel).

AT THAT MOMENT, one of the objects snags my fishing line suspended 20 feet in the air! A flutter of wings to stay aloft, a valiant effort to no avail. The object comes crashing down to the water with a heavy splash!

Wings still fluttering, I reel in my unintended quarry. Completely stunned, a downed pigeon is now safely ashore. I cut off the line wrapped around one of its toes.

I expected the hapless pigeon to fly away. It was having none of that. The poor pigeon slowly scurried 30 feet away and just stood there.

That was my first surface-to-air victory without using a firearm. Probably my last. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Fishin line overmodeled for sure...try line mk 1 next time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TAGERT.
07-29-2005, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Lol, i knew you were going to answer that. So you can learn? Huh, who knew!


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Oleg is wrong, be sure... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Doubt it, but it is posiable.. In that I hear tell that he has released patches in the past that fix BUGS.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
before you continue, i can predict that before long, you will ask for all US planes to be reworked according to this new, enlightened method of testing. New? Do you try to be clueless or does it come naturally? That NASA method has been in use since WWII and probally before that.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
We know you all too well tagert. And we know you all too well Hoarmurath.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
As i can predict also that you will have a very hard time to refrain quoting each of my sentences. I can not tell you how happy it makes in inside to know that it bothers you so much!


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
But you will answer. You always do, you just can 't live without having the last word. But you will answer. You always do, you just can 't live without having the last word.


Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
BTW Tagert, your P-38L late, was it an african, or an european P-38? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif Ironic.. the TROLL question from Monty Python from the main TROLL of the ubi forms! Are they one in the same?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/4ALL2SEE/UBI_***S/HoarmurathTheMontyMainTroll.jpg

Hmmm same hair color, same mustash, same nose.. cut off the grily ponytails on the picture to the left and put a hat on the picture on the right and it would be a match!

Heheheee ah man Im funny.. We have a saying in the 214th.. You have been pwned! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Old_Canuck
07-29-2005, 03:09 PM
It's Friday and "nature" has just released a patch featuring the latest evolutionary breakthrough. It may take billions of years but someday your offspring will fly too ... with no help from conscious intelligence http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.woodbuddies.com/PF/ProductOfEvolution.jpg

gorillasika
07-29-2005, 04:26 PM
Where the heck do you guys/ gals keep digging up these disturbing pictures?
Is it some not-so-secret plan to make this place more ghey??
Oh yeah, I have dreamed of flying too and woke up on the floor next to my bed.

Bearcat99
07-29-2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
That would be God. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Very true. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Amen.....

Tully__
07-29-2005, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Brotrob:
Thats so true, a bunch of these lively little birds reguarly hunt around my house in a cramped english town, and they really seem enjoying their outstanding FM ! They are obviously overmodelled compared to those other birds and the poor insects, and dont care about it, just like the bird they got their name from: the 262...

Nice sig, shame it breaks forum rules.... file size is too big by more than double. Try for less than 40KB please.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-30-2005, 04:08 AM
I'm lucky..I have a small stream flowing through my back garden so I get to see dragonflies quite often, not to mention bats and swallows.

Even the humble bumble bee is a flying phenomenon as, IIRC, it really shouldn't be able to fly at all; I think there was a Horizon/QED type programme on about this once.

Ta,
Norris

TAGERT.
07-30-2005, 11:10 AM
El bump for the troll!

LeadSpitter_
07-30-2005, 12:36 PM
100% absolute realism

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/proof.jpg