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VW-IceFire
01-20-2005, 07:06 AM
Maybe you folks need to read this:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We are pleased to announce the add-on for Pacific Fighters is close to release (two weeks ;p). The package will make available a new set of flyable and AI aircraft including the F2A-2 and G4M-11 as well as new maps and fixes to most of the issues reported by players since the release of the game. A number of improvements suggested by the more advanced users have also been added.

Stay posted for more information soon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From Pacific-Fighters.com - October
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We are pleased to announce that versions 3.03 and 3.04, currently in the works, will bring further improvements suggested by the players. In today's update you will discover some of the objects that will be included in version 3.04 that will further improve or enhance the gameplay: test runway, target circle for bomber practice, landing signs€¦

You will also find WiP screenshots of third-party cockpits and models which have met or are expected to meet our standards of quality and may be included in future updates of the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From Pacific-Fighters.com - December

I can't find the one that came out and told us that things like the Ki-100 were on the way but these will do.

My point is this. One, that many of you (and myself in some instances) were assuming too much. I don't think we've been told in the last two months any time that the addon would be coming soon. They told us new patches were coming and new stuff would be coming in an "addon" (read: downloadable is implied) but thats about it.

The problem is that we're all still remembering that first quote. Obviously some things have changed since when they originally posted news on this item.

So whats overarching point? People are grumbling and being impaitent and generally behaving like spoiled children but the managing of information is contributing to this behavior. There are now mixed messages and the feeling that the next patch will be "the one". In all honesty, I don't care if the next three patches adds a single plane...but even I was disappointed when it arrives out of nowhere and it was assumed that we'd see the next patch in the form of an addon.

So, we need to know a little more of whats going on, and we need to start acting our ages instead of like children grabbing at a lolly.

Thanks!

Mjollnir111675
01-20-2005, 07:29 AM
AGREED!!

Anyways it WAS mentioned a couple of weeks ago that this patch was gonna be "small".At a post at the very top of the board no less!! So it wasn't any surprise to me. PPl just refused to read it.They mis-lead themselves!!
I haven't nor plan to d/l this patch.I am waiting for the add-on. Sitzkrieg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I also agree that this forum has been darn near chaotic since the release of the patch. But as a Charter Member of Torp Plane Anonymous I also know when not to chime in on the craziness that goes on round here.

EDIT: So to answer your post:

Events: yep!! PPl gettin Crazy!!

Patches: Yep! One.

Confusion: SELF INDUCED!!

Hey 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!!And their targets!!

m.manson2004
01-20-2005, 08:12 AM
You buy a product which declares something on the box only to find out its not so when you get home followed by an immediate anouncement that you will be getting lots of goodies including the items missing already paid for and then nothing happens worse even they go into hidding and you expect normal citizens not to get angry and react?!!Thats not beeing spoilt thats beeing taken for dum and then downplaying it.
manson

Tallyho1961
01-20-2005, 09:30 AM
Right on, IceFire. Three cheers for an adult perspective.

It's occurred to me that one of the negative aspects of forums like these - which are still a relatively new form of communication after all - is that the slightest ambiguity in a written statement is quickly seized upon, parsed and analyzed to death by those waiting for the "news", placing a heavy responsibility in the hands of those who draft the text that the community reads and reacts to.

Unfortunately, absolute clarity is a standard rarely, if ever, obtained in day-to-day communication, written or otherwise. There also seems to be an absence of understanding that mere humans are behind the Wizard's curtain. And humans, unlike some wizards, err. But that's another story.

S!

VW-IceFire
01-20-2005, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by m.manson2004:
You buy a product which declares something on the box only to find out its not so when you get home followed by an immediate anouncement that you will be getting lots of goodies including the items missing already paid for and then nothing happens worse even they go into hidding and you expect normal citizens not to get angry and react?!!Thats not beeing spoilt thats beeing taken for dum and then downplaying it.
manson <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fortunately, many of us are closer to the development process than maybe the average user is. That should probably include yourself because you probably hang out here (although by post count, I'm still winning http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). Oleg did talk to us about the Betty...it wasn't supposed to be on the box, that issue and problem does not come from the same people who are supplying us the patches now. The patches don't come from Ubisoft...they come from 1C: Maddox. On the other hand, the box DID come from Ubisoft. You have to understand the developer publisher relationship a bit.

I'm not in the least bit annoyed about the Betty for one reason: We'll get more than just one bomber that was on the box but didn't arrive. We'll probably get two bombers (or more), a bunch of new fighters, aircraft, we've already gotten a couple of new maps, and new stuff too boot. So who wins in the end? Us....we just have to have some paitence.

I would suggest that 1C: Maddox in some form gives us an idea of what they are thinking. If need be, with the huge disclaimer that the timeline is not a fixed one but a shifting one. But that would help with the patches confusion. There's alot of people who *thought* that 3.04 would be an addon patch...it wasn't. I was a little surprised and confused but I don't see them as not having delivered something that was supposed to be...I see it as confusion over what their intentions were and what we thought their intentions were.

And if you want to compare it to any other game developer. We're still thousands of lightyears ahead of the game...Maddox offers a down to earth level of communication and community with fans that almost no other developer I've ever seen do. The problem is that you get some nastyness from the community along the way.

Upwards and onwards...just sort of hoping that they be a little more clear on things. Can't please everyone but you can try and let those of us who are fairly easy going know whats going...then we know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tallyho, absolutely right, the medium of discussion here is part of the problem of clarity. To quote a local and well known theorist Marshall McLuhan...the medium is the message. In this case, a confused and unclear message.

Brain32
01-20-2005, 01:15 PM
Posting onl to support your opinion and to ask you: Is there any news about the Tempest?

JG51Beolke
01-20-2005, 01:41 PM
I agree with you Icefire. I only wish Oleg and Co would be more specific about what we'll be getting, be it 2 weeks or 3 months from now. I feel that if specific planes and features are mentiond to begin with, that will do away with all this negativity from some people. For instance, I would like to know if we will eventually get the JU-88, Avenger, Tempest, Kate, Betty and Do335 during Pacific Fighters support life and not have to wait for any of these in Battle of Britain. No doubt many of us have seen dev pics of these aircraft, only to ask, When will they be available if they already look complete.

Nevertheless, I'm patient to wait a year if I have to. Seeing that I've been playing this game since IL2 first came out, I know whatever Add-on or patch that we get will be worth the wait.

Best Regards

Da_Godfatha
01-20-2005, 02:00 PM
Excuse me Ice-fire, but I do not care who made the mistake on the box. It was there, and I for one LIKE to fly bombers. I really feel screwed-over by 1C, Ubi soft. There has been lately alot of behind the hand talk about "addons", "patches" and such. When they don`t deliever, we are Insulted by the Fanboi`s and a few Mods (IMHO) by being told that we are ungratefull slugs and we should STFU and toe the party line.
Yes, Mr. Maddox MIGHT give us what has been talked about and promised, then again maybe not.

Support here or Support there, I think it is better just not to say anything and surprise us all with the "there will be more of everything coming" than to talk around it.

I know,I know, the die-hard "I want to have your baby, Oleg" fanboi`s will scream "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND ANYTHING". I am not demanding anything but a FINISHED product.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to insult 1C, Mr. Maddox or anybody reading my post.

arjisme
01-20-2005, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Excuse me Ice-fire, but I do not care who made the mistake on the box. It was there, and I for one LIKE to fly bombers. I really feel screwed-over by 1C, Ubi soft. There has been lately alot of behind the hand talk about "addons", "patches" and such. When they don`t deliever, we are Insulted by the Fanboi`s and a few Mods (IMHO) by being told that we are ungratefull slugs and we should STFU and toe the party line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Comments I see from "fanboi's" more typically call for some tolerance and a bit of perspective, as opposed to telling anyone to STFU. The box said there was a flyable Betty. The game didn't come with one. So a missing Betty bomber is justification to exercise the "right" as a consumer to ***** loud and long? Without it we are totally screwed -- the package is worthless or definately not worth whatever each of us paid for it? Personally, I disagree with that.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes, Mr. Maddox MIGHT give us what has been talked about and promised, then again maybe not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tough to argue against that. The sun might rise, then again it might not. If you really feel those two possibilities are about equal, it suggests to me you are not familiar with his history of support for this game. Based on that history, I would bet he will deliver what was promised, plus stuff never promised.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know,I know, the die-hard "I want to have your baby, Oleg" fanboi`s will scream "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND ANYTHING". I am not demanding anything but a FINISHED product. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Seems reasonable to want a finished product. But there are a lot of different ideas around here about what "finished" means. Let's assume he delivers what you consider to be "finished." Then you would not expect even remotely that he might deliver additional patches that add or change functionality in the game, right? Because it's finished, right? I don't want a finished product. I want him to keep working on it and delivering more goodies -- free ones and, from time-to-time, ones I have to pay for.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
This is just my opinion and I do not mean to insult 1C, Mr. Maddox or anybody reading my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please. You made repeated efforts to denegrate those that are supportive of Oleg's efforts and/or call for patience (a.k.a. "fanbois"). You also basically said Oleg/UBI have screwed you. And now you say you didn't mean to be insulting?

m.manson2004
01-20-2005, 02:57 PM
I propose that MADDOX sets up 2 forums for PF,i think the time has come for us to start chosing sides,we cannot go on this way, we are moving towards a civil war.The end of this month Iraqis
go to the poll,the Palestimians already have as well as the Americans so maybe we can organize our own parties and elections next month.I want to set up my own party and fight for our members rights, we can hold elections on the forum.

manson

VW-IceFire
01-20-2005, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Excuse me Ice-fire, but I do not care who made the mistake on the box. It was there, and I for one LIKE to fly bombers. I really feel screwed-over by 1C, Ubi soft. There has been lately alot of behind the hand talk about "addons", "patches" and such. When they don`t deliever, we are Insulted by the Fanboi`s and a few Mods (IMHO) by being told that we are ungratefull slugs and we should STFU and toe the party line.
Yes, Mr. Maddox MIGHT give us what has been talked about and promised, then again maybe not.

Support here or Support there, I think it is better just not to say anything and surprise us all with the "there will be more of everything coming" than to talk around it.

I know,I know, the die-hard "I want to have your baby, Oleg" fanboi`s will scream "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND ANYTHING". I am not demanding anything but a FINISHED product.

This is just my opinion and I do not mean to insult 1C, Mr. Maddox or anybody reading my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like to fly bombers too. Which is why I did have a little bit of disappointment when the Betty didn't show up in the game. Nonetheless, the pre-release flyable lists we saw as members here on the forums indicated that the Betty would not make it and that the box was wrong.

You probably should care to know whos fault it is because then you can better direct your argument rather than just demanding that everyone fall in line and do something about it. As I said, my feelings on the Betty matter are moderated by experience...knowing that we'll get more than just the Betty in a future patch and I know that to be true from prior experience. Thats worth it to me. If its not to you then thats ok too.

It doesn't really help your case if you use "STFU" and "fanboi" colloquialisms throughout. Does it mean I'm a fanboy by asking for a little understanding and moderation? I'm only asking for the same things you are...just in a different way.

cwojackson
01-20-2005, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by m.manson2004:
I propose that MADDOX sets up 2 forums for PF,i think the time has come for us to start chosing sides,we cannot go on this way, we are moving towards a civil war.The end of this month Iraqis
go to the poll,the Palestimians already have as well as the Americans so maybe we can organize our own parties and elections next month.I want to set up my own party and fight for our members rights, we can hold elections on the forum.

manson <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually the personal difference on this forum will make little difference in the future of PF or 1CMaddox. That will be determined at the cash register.

The average person who purchased PF is not satisfied. The game came incomplete, lacking a CD worth of data by 1CMaddox's own admission. The game doesn't have the Betty which is listed on the box (sorry folks, the average buyer doesn't care what is or isn't on the website or whether there is a disconnect between the developer and distributor...they simply want what they paid for), the lack of flyable carrier torpedo planes in a Pacific War simulation, the lack luster stand alone campaigns and details such as British ships at Pearl Harbor.

Add to that the claim that all would be made right two weeks after PF's U.S. release and 1CMaddox's lack of providing their customers with real answers to the above.

The impact from this won't be decided on this forum...it will be decided at the cash register. Go ahead and call those who simply want what they paid for whiners. Without those whiners buying 1CMaddox products YOU will be without future products from them as well.

Eraser_tr
01-20-2005, 03:15 PM
I've no doubt 1C maddox will deliver, its just when and how. We were told that there would be a free addon just after release of content that was done but couldn't fit on two CD's. 3 months later we still don't have this. It's not unfair to be upset. I've seen "oh but when we do get it we'll get tons more that we didn't know we were getting" Thats all good, but I'd rather see what was promised (as finished) now, and get that rest of the surprise later instead of all of it at once.

Da_Godfatha
01-20-2005, 03:34 PM
Yes my post count is not 42 gazillion like some people. But, I have played IL-2 since the demo and I have lurked around this forum almost since the beginning. I have expressed my opinion on how I feel. Around here, saying that is amount to High Treason! NO one really knows IF we will get what has been talked about on these forums, official or unoffical. 1C could fold tommorrow (Heaven forbid!) or any of a multitude of things could happen to stop the support of this game.

Some of the people here have, IMHO, very low expectations of what the paying customer should get, promised or not. I really don`t like paying 49" for a game, that is in my opinion, just a addon in its self, and then finding it is not all there. Yes, I know it may take a patch or two to get things right. I am willing to wait for that, but, I think there is something wrong with this game. I have stated before, this is NOT up to the normal high standards of 1C and Mr. Maddox. That is based on his other works we have recieved.

No, I did not mean YOU are a Fanboi, if you got that impression, then I am sorry for that. But my past experiance, and the reading of some of the posts in the past few days, shows that they come out faster than a bum at a stoplight!

The title of your topic says it all, I think there is alot of confusion going on. I for one am willing to wait a little longer to see how this whole FB+AEP+PF thing develops. It would be a shame if the money tree was chopped down (by Ubi) and Mr. Maddox and 1C could not develope any more flight sims. But today in the business world it is "Money Talks,BS walks". But I think right now things have maybe gottin a little out of hand.

Cloudy_
01-20-2005, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I like to fly bombers too. Which is why I did have a little bit of disappointment when the Betty didn't show up in the game. Nonetheless, the pre-release flyable lists we saw as members here on the forums indicated that the Betty would not make it and that the box was wrong.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will also admit to being a tad disappointed after noting "Betty Not Included". However, I knew the history of the developer and expected it to come later. This was nothing compared to flying my very first scenario attacking Pearl Harbor, zooming down on Battleship Row and seeing that the BB's had a quadruple and a twin turret forward - in fact not American battleships at all but British King George V's. The historical immersion factor went "poof". It would certainly be nice to see appropriate ships added but it's obviously only eye candy.

J_Weaver
01-20-2005, 06:22 PM
As great of series as this is PF reekes of being rushed. I'm sure that there was a lot of pressure to get it out before Christmas, but the game was, IMO, only about half finished. If the release of PF could have been delayed until it was ready we might not have the confusion and madness that we do now.

LEXX_Luthor
01-20-2005, 07:11 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

mm :: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I propose that MADDOX sets up 2 forums for PF,i think the time has come for us to start chosing sides,we cannot go on this way, we are moving towards a civil war.The end of this month Iraqis... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

goshikisen
01-20-2005, 07:38 PM
A timely official message would put these fires out... it won't make everyone happy but at least it'd clear things up. Maybe Oleg has been burned one too many times by this fickle crowd.

Turk_man
01-20-2005, 09:21 PM
Although I`ve been a big fan of IL2, FB and AEP, this release left my a little peeved off. I thought we`d be recreating some of the great battles of the Pacific online but low and behold we didn`t get some of the planes that would be necessary to do that. Hurt because I have become use to a quality with this series and this release was far from the usual standard. I will voice my real feeling the only way a consumer can, when BOB is released I`ll read the forums to make sure it`s finished before buying.

cwojackson
01-20-2005, 10:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Turk_man:
Although I`ve been a big fan of IL2, FB and AEP, this release left my a little peeved off. I thought we`d be recreating some of the great battles of the Pacific online but low and behold we didn`t get some of the planes that would be necessary to do that. Hurt because I have become use to a quality with this series and this release was far from the usual standard. I will voice my real feeling the only way a consumer can, when BOB is released I`ll read the forums to make sure it`s finished before buying. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is exactly the point I've been trying to get across to 1CMaddox and the cheerleaders here. This isn't dissatisfaction with dive speed, turn rates or the effectiveness of someone's pet aircraft's weapons. This is consumer dissatisfaction with the purchase of an incomplete product, of the developers failure to provide the promised missing data (by their own admission a CD worth of data to be released two weaks after the U.S. release date) and the lack of information coming from 1CMaddox on "THE" patch.

There will be two versions of BoB released within the next year. One will come from 1CMaddox. I have purchased three of their products; was very pleased with one (IL2), relatively pleased with another (FB) and totally disappointed with the last (PF).

Another version of BoB is being produced by Shockwave in cooperation with Rowan. I've also purchased three products from Shockwave and have been extremely pleased with all three. Anyone familiar with their products knows that the level of research and quality they put into their products is just as exacting as that produced by 1CMaddox in their early efforts.

Without a doubt I will be pre-ordering BoB from Shockwave, however, like you, I will not buying the 1CMaddox product when it hits the shelves.

ElAurens
01-20-2005, 11:15 PM
Shockwave's/Rowan's BoB will be obsolete before it hits the shelves.

cwojackson
01-20-2005, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Shockwave's/Rowan's BoB will be obsolete before it hits the shelves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Yes, and the missing data from PF will be available two weeks after the U.S. release.

ElAurens
01-20-2005, 11:36 PM
Shockwave's BoB is a refurb/remake of an existing game engine, one that was not that good to begin with. 1C/Maddox's BoB will be on a completely new and groundbreaking engine that will set the standard for all future flight simulations.

Believe what you want, but Shockwave is only kidding themselves, and you it seems, if they think they will unseat 1C/Maddox as the premier developer of prop flight sims.

BoB has nothing whatsoever to do with your issues (real and or imagined) with PF.

cwojackson
01-21-2005, 12:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Shockwave's BoB is a refurb/remake of an existing game engine, one that was not that good to begin with. 1C/Maddox's BoB will be on a completely new and groundbreaking engine that will set the standard for _all_ future flight simulations.

Believe what you want, but Shockwave is only kidding themselves, and you it seems, if they think they will unseat 1C/Maddox as the premier developer of prop flight sims.

BoB has nothing whatsoever to do with your issues (real and or imagined) with PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That will all be determined at the cash registers, where your opinion will count for what...one sale? As for your knowledge and opinion of Shockwave and the product they are making...it is seriously flawed.

ElAurens
01-21-2005, 05:31 AM
Unit sales are never an indication of quality. If that were true than Mercedes, BMW, Rolls Royce, etc, would have a lower quality product than Ford.

In the video gaming industry unit sales are more a reflection of who puts the box on the shelf first. In this area Shockwave will beat Maddox Games, granted, but with a reworked older game.

I assume from the tone of your post that you are in some way connected to Shockwave.

Poor form old man.

arjisme
01-21-2005, 07:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Turk_man:
[...]I will voice my real feeling the only way a consumer can, when BOB is released I`ll read the forums to make sure it`s finished before buying. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is exactly the point I've been trying to get across to 1CMaddox and the cheerleaders here. [...] This is consumer dissatisfaction with the purchase of an incomplete product, of the developers failure to provide the promised missing data (by their own admission a CD worth of data to be released two weaks after the U.S. release date) and the lack of information coming from 1CMaddox on "THE" patch.[...] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And this is the same point I have made in these forums in several threads that amount to nothing more than a lot of loud *****ing over the missing flyable planes in PF. For those that feel they were ripped off, it makes sense that they should not buy future products from UBI/Oleg w/o first doing more research. That way they will know what they are getting with their money and will be less likely to feel screwed.

But I suspect that many of those that complain won't do this. They will rush out and buy the next release anyhow. This is because they, in fact, do enjoy what their money bought. They complain because they are too impatient to wait for the promised planes, fixes, etc. and get frustrated over it. If they seriously feel what they buy is not worth the cash, they should do exactly what you suggest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[...]I will not buying the 1CMaddox product when it hits the shelves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not sure if you meant that to mean "won't be buying it at all" vs. "won't be buying it immediately upon release." If you meant "at all", it is your choice, of course, but I am skeptical that will be true, particularly if the buzz after release is that it is an awesome product.

Mjollnir111675
01-21-2005, 07:13 AM
@ElAurens:

To be fair though Mercedes,R.R. and BMW dont send HALF-BUILT cars to a dealer though,do they?
Mercedes,R.R. and BMW have been around for almost 100 years.They didn't get to where they are by producing cars that didn't run,run incorrectly and/or missing vital components.
Do you think that 1-C will be around for half that if they keep releasing what they have been?
That you must answer honestly to yourself.
And unit sales CAN be related to quality of some sort. Word of mouth sells more than being the first box on a shelf in a store no matter the season.
In the end it doesn't matter!! Everything will be fixed when Pacific Fighters:Platinum Pack is released!!
And torp planes are only a hair of what should be represented in this sim.



HEY 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!! "MOP 'EM UP!!"

arjisme
01-21-2005, 07:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
@ElAurens:

To be fair though Mercedes,R.R. and BMW dont send HALF-BUILT cars to a dealer though,do they?
Mercedes,R.R. and BMW have been around for almost 100 years.They didn't get to where they are by producing cars that didn't run,run incorrectly and/or missing vital components.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Talk to the service departments of the dealerships that repair those cars. Hardly bug free! And, yeah, they don't get delivered with vital components missing, but so far, I can say the same for all my recent gaming software purchases. LOL!

Loki-PF
01-21-2005, 07:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
......Believe what you want, but Shockwave is only kidding themselves, and you it seems, if they think they will unseat 1C/Maddox as the premier developer of prop flight sims. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1C's demise will have nothing to do with any external competition. If they fall it will be because of what has transpired up to this point.

And to make a statement that implies that unit sales are not important to a software developer is just plain ignorant. To be fair you said that quality was not related to quantity to paraphrase you a bit. But speaking from experience in the software industry, if there is no quality then there will be no quantity.

Miki40
01-21-2005, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Maybe you folks need to read this:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We are pleased to announce the add-on for Pacific Fighters is close to release (two weeks ;p). The package will make available a new set of flyable and AI aircraft including the F2A-2 and G4M-11 as well as new maps and fixes to most of the issues reported by players since the release of the game. A number of improvements suggested by the more advanced users have also been added.

Stay posted for more information soon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From Pacific-Fighters.com - October
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We are pleased to announce that versions 3.03 and 3.04, currently in the works, will bring further improvements suggested by the players. In today's update you will discover some of the objects that will be included in version 3.04 that will further improve or enhance the gameplay: test runway, target circle for bomber practice, landing signs€¦

You will also find WiP screenshots of third-party cockpits and models which have met or are expected to meet our standards of quality and may be included in future updates of the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From Pacific-Fighters.com - December

I can't find the one that came out and told us that things like the Ki-100 were on the way but these will do.

My point is this. One, that many of you (and myself in some instances) were assuming too much. I don't think we've been told in the last two months any time that the addon would be coming soon. They told us new patches were coming and new stuff would be coming in an "addon" (read: downloadable is implied) but thats about it.

The problem is that we're all still remembering that first quote. Obviously some things have changed since when they originally posted news on this item.

So whats overarching point? People are grumbling and being impaitent and generally behaving like spoiled children but the managing of information is contributing to this behavior. There are now mixed messages and the feeling that the next patch will be "the one". In all honesty, I don't care if the next three patches adds a single plane...but even I was disappointed when it arrives out of nowhere and it was assumed that we'd see the next patch in the form of an addon.

So, we need to know a little more of whats going on, and we need to start acting our ages instead of like children grabbing at a lolly.

Thanks! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, very good and to the point post!

cwojackson
01-21-2005, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Unit sales are _never_ an indication of quality. If that were true than Mercedes, BMW, Rolls Royce, etc, would have a lower quality product than Ford.

In the video gaming industry unit sales are more a reflection of who puts the box on the shelf first. In this area Shockwave will beat Maddox Games, granted, but with a reworked older game.

I assume from the tone of your post that you are in some way connected to Shockwave.

Poor form old man. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You really should check the facts more closely. There is nothing reworked about the new BoB being developed by Shockwave; it's an entirely new product that is simply a follow-on to the original. Other then name and concept, they share nothing in common.

cwojackson
01-21-2005, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And this is the same point I have made in these forums in several threads that amount to nothing more than a lot of loud *****ing over the missing flyable planes in PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few missing flyable planes? It goes far beyond the fact that a Pacific air war sim is without flyable torpedo planes. The lack luster campaigns, incomplete theaters and the Royal Navy at Pearl Harbor aren't minor annoyances. The fact is, by 1CMaddox's own admission, the game was released incomplete.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But I suspect that many of those that complain won't do this. They will rush out and buy the next release anyhow. This is because they, in fact, do enjoy what their money bought. They complain because they are too impatient to wait for the promised planes, fixes, etc. and get frustrated over it. If they seriously feel what they buy is not worth the cash, they should do exactly what you suggest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I've pointed out before. The majority of people who bought PF do not haunt forums or the online squadrons. They simply buy a product to entertain themselves with in a stand alone capacity. If the game doesn't entertain them they don't wait for some promised patches, they find something that does.

Given that they will have a viable alternative that they are familiar with, I wouldn't count on that part of the market making another impulse buy.

As for me, I pre-ordered PF because of my general satisfaction with IL2/IL2FB; with it's lack of campaign play I didn't consider AEP anything great. Given the situation with PF, I won't pre-order BoB from 1CMaddox and I know I will from Shockwave.

Whether I ever buy BoB from 1CMaddox is up in the air.

t0n.
01-21-2005, 12:25 PM
If you think there's moaning now, just wait until the add-on is actually released. As Saqson already hinted, we're not getting half of what we imagine we're getting.

Reaction will inevitably be:

"A, B, and C flyable? Who cares about A, B, and C? It's D and E that were most important. I feel betrayed!"

or

"D and E flyable? Who cares about D and E? It's A and B that were most important. I feel betrayed!"

Be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif