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ronison
01-25-2007, 09:26 PM
First I want to qualify that this is not a "My plane is porked" thread. This is simply some observations I have seen with two of the US Navy aircraft. Both of these are in off line play and seem to be all pacific maps, at least the ones from the DGen campaigns.

First both F4F models seem to have a bit of a problem. While diving with a Zero the Japanese plane out dives the Wildcat. This is with the Wildcat trimmed out and even running at 110% throttle. I do know that the AI tends to have better performance and I would pass this issue off on that exact thing if not for the other problem I have noticed. If the Zero climbs the Wildcat is able to close on the Zero. This again for everything I have read is historically incorrect.

Now again please don't take this as a "my plane is porked" complaint its not. Actually being the UI loves to climb now with the Zero it has increased my kills, add to this that when climbing a lot of times they hold a nice steady path that is easy to follow.

As for the other problem that I have come upon. Three times recently I have been in a dive with a F6F at approximately a 45 degree down angle. Each of those times I have not exceeded 200 mph yet my elevator locks. I have no control what so ever over this control surface. The ailerons, flaps, and rudder all work but the elevator locks like it was in a compression state. Each of these three times I have made a very nice hole in the ground or water that was beneath me. The map I was flying on was the one with Guam on it so I don't know if it is limited to only this map or others.

Let me add that there was no other aircraft around me or any flack coming up from the ground so there was no reason for any aircraft damage from outside influences.

FritzGryphon
01-26-2007, 05:44 AM
I think for a true Zero vs Wildcat comparison, you could pretty easily test both planes and compare.

For example, a timed dive from 2000m to the deck at a fixed angle. Ditto on a climb test. No need to use the AI for comparisons.

I'll try the F6F and see what happens.

FritzGryphon
01-26-2007, 06:35 AM
Couldn't find anything funky with the F6F. Not sure what map you mean, though.

Was curious about relative dive performance, so did a simple test.

----------------

30 degree Dive acceleration from 3000m to ground. 110% power.

Charted speed versus time. Values in red are acceleration over 5 second period.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon2/nvdive.bmp

I concluded that, at speeds from 300-400km/h, the Zeros accelerated at a superior rate. From 400-500km/h, they all accelerated at an equal rate. 500-600km/h, the F4F accelerated more rapidly. 600km/h+, the F4F is significantly better.

F4F pilots should be careful to avoid very low speeds. Escape dives should be initiated at as high a speed as possible, and these high speeds prolonged for as long as possible.

The A6M2 disintigrates at a mere ~650km/h IAS. Flying at an speed higher than this will effectively make the F4F player invincible to attack.

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-26-2007, 02:32 PM
I concluded that, at speeds from 300-400km/h, the Zeros accelerated at a superior rate. From 400-500km/h, they all accelerated at an equal rate. 500-600km/h, the F4F accelerated more rapidly. 600km/h+, the F4F is significantly better.

F4F pilots should be careful to avoid very low speeds. Escape dives should be initiated at as high a speed as possible, and these high speeds prolonged for as long as possible.

The A6M2 disintigrates at a mere ~650km/h IAS. Flying at an speed higher than this will effectively make the F4F player invincible to attack.

Exactly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Many do not know how to effectively dive away from trouble and this is the reason many think the Zero dives so well.

Kwiatos
01-26-2007, 04:25 PM
From my experience in game also roll rate at medium to high speed is not accurate between Zero and Wildac. Zero rolls too good at medium to high speed comparing to Wildac. Zero rolls even better then P-47 at high speed which is absurd in these game :/

VW-IceFire
01-26-2007, 04:30 PM
Can't comment any better than FritzGryphon has (excellent info man!) on the Wildcat/Zero stuff but let me assure you that the F6F is amazing in a dive. Full elevator authority up into the 700kph range (whats that, 450mph or higher?). Never ever had any problems pulling out. You sure its not your joystick or something?

ImpStarDuece
01-26-2007, 05:33 PM
TAIC tests of FM-2 vs A6M5 state that:

"The Zeke was slightly superior to the FM2 in initial dive acceleration, after which the dives were about the same"

The Zero in this test wasn't quite making rated speed either, being about 18 mph down on recognised normal top speed.

So, the Zero should actually be able to hang with a F4F in the dive, at least until the F4F gets faster than the Zero's break up limit.

Problem is that the AI seems not to have that break up limit when flying a Zero, so it only works in an online environment.

ronison
01-26-2007, 07:32 PM
Like I said Im not trying to say these planes are porked at all. Its just observations. I can see how if you compare the AI vs player only on one side that something may seem funny and that wasnt my exact point. Its just that from "observation" with player vs AI the roles seem to be reversed to me. May be my flying style may be the difficulty I have the AI set, which is high, etc... there could be a bunch of reasons.

As for the F6 all I can say is each time I have had my elevator lock it has been after a very small micro shutter. Almost like being hit with something but there is absolutly nothing around me to hit me. Also being it has happened three times it makes me wonder.

IceFire as far as the stick being a problem I dont think so. This is the only aricract that I have ever had this issue with and it has only happened on this map and only three times. To be the stick I would think it wouldnt have so many restrictions on when it has happened or at least would have happened more than three times and with diffrent aircraft.

Waldo.Pepper
01-26-2007, 08:27 PM
Good thread!

R_Target
01-26-2007, 09:13 PM
That's certainly odd about the elevator on the F6F. I've never had any problems with it either.

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-26-2007, 10:11 PM
Three times recently I have been in a dive with a F6F at approximately a 45 degree down angle. Each of those times I have not exceeded 200 mph yet my elevator locks.

Im not going to flame you for this comment and I believe this is happening and you are not making it up. But I must say that I fly US planes (especially Navy types) all the time and have been doing so since PF shipped and I think this can not be further from the truth for me. In fact all US planes except for the P-39 and P-38 have almost FULL elevator authority at ANY speed. There must be something wrong with your stick settings. Perhaps you dont have 100 set at least at the end of the elevator selection.

As my tag will tell...Im a US plane lover/flyer and I would certainly hop aboard to anything I felt was not accurate when talking about these planes, but elevator response have never been an issue with any of the US planes except the two I mentioned.

ronison
01-26-2007, 11:00 PM
VMF-214_HaVoK I wont take that as a flame. I also fly mostly USN aircraft and have never had this issue at all till this past week. I started a DGen campaign and have flown almost 60 missions with 1946. Untill recently I had never experienced this problem. I had flown two full DGen USN campaigns prior to 1946 and never had any issues. When this poped up the first time I thought I was hit with something but there was no message of loosing the controll surface as well as there was no flack coming from anywhere. When I went to look at what enemy aircraft had got a lucky shot I found none in the air. I passed it off as maybe somehting I did and though oh well and flew again. Two missions later I had the same thing happen. Poped out of the aircraft and found that I had nothing around me and no movement of the elevator. Rudder and alerons worked but no elevator. Third time about two or three missions later same thing. Checked and had the same results. Only similarity was the small micro shutter that came just prior to the elevator locking which happened right after I started to pull back on the stick.

Im not making it up and next time I have this issue I will be sure to save the track and post it so others can see. Of course that is not exact proff because, well I could doctor the track and say I was pulling on the stick but really not, so that wont really prove anything to anyone. Maybe looking at the track log someone can see somthing.. not sure if this would work, I havent ever really looked at the code to see if this kind of thing would be loged or not.

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-26-2007, 11:05 PM
Try going into QMB with no enemy and no AAA. Select the Hellcat and start at max alt. Gradually dive to lets say 450mph and try your elevator and continue to do so until breakup. Post back with your findings.

BlitzPig_DDT
01-27-2007, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Couldn't find anything funky with the F6F. Not sure what map you mean, though.

Hmm..., you mean other than the fact that it should be significantly faster, should NOT have that nasty stall (or ANY kind of even REMOTELY nasty stall), should have MUCH better over-the-nose visibility than the corsair (which is quite the opposite case in this game), and should be easier to trap with than a corsair (which is also totally opposite what we see in this game)?

We won't even nitpick with the totally inaccurate cockpits.

Out of the box Pacific Fighters had a MUCH better representation of it than what we have now (and it's better now than it was for a long time too, which is the worst part).

We need a real F6F in this sim, not a post war trainer. For that matter we need a real F4U in this sim, not a glorified cessna for n00bs who want to feel like aces in their over-hyped glory hounds.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-27-2007, 04:25 AM
For that matter we need a real F4U in this sim, not a glorified cessna for n00bs who want to feel like aces in their over-hyped glory hounds.

umm...huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif