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CKY_86
12-12-2004, 12:17 PM
i understood that there was a v2 wip is there any more news on it

CKY_86
12-12-2004, 07:04 PM
hmmm looks like no one has ever heard of a v2 lol

p1ngu666
12-12-2004, 08:26 PM
iirec it was going tobe static object, but several, like launcher, truck etc or something

VW-IceFire
12-12-2004, 10:31 PM
Yeah...hoping to blast a few...still hoping.

TAGERT.
12-12-2004, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CKY_86:
hmmm looks like no one has ever heard of a v2 lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>V2? OH! V2! That rocket that flew in the mid 40s and was a copy of Goddards work in the 20s and 30s?

GODDARD'S HISTORIC FIRSTS
Robert H. Goddard's basic contribution to missilery and space flight is a lengthy list. As such, it is an eloquent testimonial to his lifetime of work in establishing and demonstrating the fundamental principles of rocket propulsion.

# First explored mathematically the practicality of using rocket propulsion to reach high & altitudes and even the moon (1912);

# First proved, by actual static test, that a rocket will work in a vacuum, that it needs no air to push against;
# First developed and shot a liquid fuel rocket, March 16,1926;

# First shot a scientific payload (barometer and camera) in a rocket flight (1929, Auburn, Massachusetts);

# First used vanes in the rocket motor blast for guidance (1932, New Mexico);

# First developed gyro control apparatus for rocket flight (1932, New Mexico);

# First received U.S. patent in idea of multi-stage rocket (1914);

# First developed pumps suitable for rocket fuels;

# First launched successfully a rocket with a motor pivoted on gimbals under the influence of a & gyro mechanism (1937).

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/gsfc/service/gallery/fact_sheets/general/goddard/goddard.htm

That V2?

Foo.bar
12-12-2004, 11:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
V2? OH! V2! That rocket that flew in the mid 40s and was a copy of Goddards work in the 20s and 30s? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

a copy of goddard's poor attempt? oh man, when goddard got first parts of a V2 which attacked london he realized that german rocket technology was a hundred years ahead.
forget goddard. he just only reached 2.700 meters with his small rockets when germans were able to launch operational strategical rockets witch over 3 tons of mass and a 1 ton warhead, they reached almost 100.000 meters height and hit targets over 300km away.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif goddard

That A4(V2)!

BBB_Hyperion
12-12-2004, 11:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Tagert. wrote:
V2? OH! V2! That rocket that flew in the mid 40s and was a copy of Goddards work in the 20s and 30s?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm so after all the V2 was a copy from an US Rocket cause GODDARD's work was used in the developing process thats intresting.

Thats news to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So other way around you tell us that all US "Inventions" that are based on german scientists work were its clear that their patents and knowlegde was used to archive a success in developement are all german inventions ?

hmm thats news too .)

propositional calculus
All Props are Black => All Props Rotate Backwards.

If state 1 is correct state 2 is correct .

But State 1 is incorrect it was no copy .) => State 2 is incorrect

You need really a vacation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Abbuzze
12-13-2004, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
]V2? OH! V2! That rocket that flew in the mid 40s and was a copy of Goddards work in the 20s and 30s? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Yes and every german plane was just a copy of Wrights work... we know.

Of course you can tell us why Goddard (who was without doubt a pioneer of rockettechnology), was surprised by the pure size of the copys burning chamber.
What about a photo and/or size comparision Taggert? Please show us the original and the copy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NegativeGee
12-13-2004, 03:22 AM
Its ironic (in the worst possible sense) that more people died manufacturing the V-2 than were killed in its operational use against urbanised areas.

Foo.bar
12-13-2004, 04:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Abbuzze:
(...)What about a photo and/or size comparision Taggert? Please show us the original and the copy (...) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lass mal gut sein, abbuzze, der arme willi ist ein typischer vertreter des klischees. wir wissen es besser. √ľbrigens kam das thema 'goddard vs. von braun' gestern nochmal als dokumetation auf N24. sehr interessant...
von goddard h√¬§tte man schon allein deshalb nicht abkupfern k√¬∂nnen, weil der man absolut nichts √ľber seine versuche nach au√üen dringen lassen hat. selbst deutsche angebote √ľber eine zusammenarbeit vor dem krieg hat der mensch ausgeschlagen. er wollte es alleine besser machen - und hat im internationalen vergleich versagt. nunja...

Hetzer_II
12-13-2004, 05:25 AM
Didnt you all know the famous constructor of the later moon rockets.. Wernherr von Goddard??

I realy wonder why the german rocket scientists were searched from the americans if they already had all knowledge to do better...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Foo.bar
12-13-2004, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Foo.bar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
V2? OH! V2! That rocket that flew in the mid 40s and was a copy of Goddards work in the 20s and 30s? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

a copy of goddard's poor attempt? oh man, when goddard got first parts of a V2 which attacked london he realized that german rocket technology was a hundred years ahead.
forget goddard. he just only reached 2.700 meters with his small rockets when germans were able to launch operational strategical rockets witch over 12 tons of mass and a 1 ton warhead, they reached almost 100.000 meters height and hit targets over 300km away. after the war the thiefes managed to launch the V2 without payload up to 210.000 meters (!).

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif goddard

http://www.v2werk-oberraderach.de/V2_2_1-Dateien/image004.jpg

That A4(V2)! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HansKnappstick
12-13-2004, 07:43 AM
Probably we could call it a "copy" of Ciolkovsky's ideas from late 19c. or even a "copy" of Siemionowicz's ideas from 17c. ... But it's all copy of ancient Chinese inventions...

meina222
12-13-2004, 07:44 AM
It wasn't until 1951 that the United States was able to launch a rocket that performed comparable to the V-2. And you know what? It took them maybe a 100 tests of V-2s from White Sands to do that. Coincidentally Von Braun was an 'involuntary' employee of the Defense Department at that time.

As to the comparison between Goddard's rocket and the V-2 - you better go to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum in DC and take a close look at the two. The V-2 is a monster (maybe 60% the size of a contemporary Minuteman III) able to reach past the stratosphere.

jurinko
12-13-2004, 07:45 AM
V2 3D model and historic texture are ready a long time AFAIK.. but it will be present just as a static model in FP/PF.

MatoKKK
12-13-2004, 08:06 AM
V-2 is done. I have modelled it. I am just waiting for the final DM texture for the mobile carrier. There are two versions:

1. V-2 on the launch pad ready to fire
2. V-2 on the mobile carrier

JG77Von_Hess
12-13-2004, 08:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gifYou got it all wrong, the first man made object to enter orbit around earth was a 50cal round wich was fired from a high flying black widow nightfighter missing its target, hell they even think about rename a few craters on the moon to browning craters.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards.

VH.

TAGERT.
12-13-2004, 09:19 AM
Typically I will quote a person, in that most people said something worth while, but not in this case, I gues the list of *FIRSTS* that we used on the V2 was just too much TRUTH for them to bare.. Let alone comment on. So, Ill just say this

@Foo.Bar ROTFLMAO!
@BBB_Hyperion ROTFLMAO!
@Abbuzze ROTFLMAO!
@Hetzer_II ROTFLMAO!
@meina222 ROTFLMAO!

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-13-2004, 09:38 AM
@Foo.Bar
@BBB_Hyperion
@Abbuzze
@Hetzer_II
@meina222
never argue with certain people, they'll drag you down on their level and beat u with experiance...

@TAGERT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Von_Zero
12-13-2004, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Typically I will quote a person, in that most people said something worth while, but not in this case, I gues the list of *FIRSTS* that we used on the V2 was just too much TRUTH for them to bare.. Let alone comment on. So, Ill just say this <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
one man's "too much truth" is another man's bias....

(oops did i say "bias"?? oh, sorry, i meant "subjective opinion") http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

quiet_man
12-13-2004, 03:03 PM
YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0201.shtml

feel proud to be edjucated by
quiet_man
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aaron_GT
12-13-2004, 03:55 PM
"# First proved, by actual static test, that a rocket will work in a vacuum, that it needs no air to push against;"

That was only necessary to prove a point with the NY Times which was being stupid and neglecting the Newtonian laws of mechanics. Everyone involved in rocketry already knew that rockets would work in a vacuum!

Goddard is one of the greats of pre WW2 rocketry, the others being Oberth and a Russian I've forgotten the name of. It was pretty much neck and neck between then in the 1920s and 30s. The German rocketeers got a boost from the Nazis desire for military expenditure from the mid 1930s when USA military spending was still small meaning Goddard got little government support. Who knows what Goddard might have achieved with the same level of funding that the German program got in the 1930s.

Von Braun came up with some interesting designs too, notably one that is essentially similar to some of the early space shuttle designs, but given his role in NASA this is probably no great surprise.

TAGERT.
12-13-2004, 07:59 PM
@Von_Zero
@JaBo_HH-BlackSheep

I see alot of dancing around the truth.. Alot of words like "bias" and "opinion" be toss out in the hopes it will stick... But the ONE thing I did NOT see is anything addressing the FIRSTS by Goddard most if not all were USED on the V2

BBB_Hyperion
12-13-2004, 09:46 PM
You missed my post then Tagert . I admited that parts of his work made it into the developing. But the problems developing heavy weight rockets are somewhat different , payload and center of gravity etc. So Basic ideas were used and modiefied or completely reworked. Its no copy at all . And you said its a copy. You can try to talk around it but you said copy .

cop‚∑y Audio pronunciation of "copy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kp) n. pl. cop‚∑ies

1. An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter.
2. One specimen or example of a printed text or picture: an autographed copy of a novel.
3. Material, such as a manuscript, that is to be set in type.
4. The words to be printed or spoken in an advertisement.
5. Suitable source material for journalism: Celebrities make good copy.


http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/schnitt.gif

1. Ignitor
2. Payload
3. Control Section
4. Tank alcohol
5. Carrying Structure
6. Tank liquid Oxygen
7. Thruster Directionblades
8. aerodynamic Rudder
9. Burning Chamber
10. Tank Hydrogensuperoxyd

Length: 13,25 m
....Diameter: 1,65 m
....Payload: 975 kg
....Climbrate : 2160 m/s
....Takeoff Weight: 3,5 t
....Maxspeed: 5470 km/h
....Range: 380 km


Goddards Rocket 41 Model Program Stoped
length = 6.7 m
Weight, fueled: 205 kg


Design Features:

Goddard's later rockets used his own custom-made, lightweight turbopumps to force the propellants into the combustion chamber, automatic stabilization, thermally insulated propellant tanks, and combustion chamber cooling. Refined versions of these features are found in most modern rocket designs. Goddard did not realize it, but since the early 1930s the German army had been secretly developing liquid-propellant rockets and had independently arrived at similar engineering solutions.

Seems its hard to admit its no copy for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Using basic principles and modiefy them isnt copying its called developed.

Without de Laval's nozzle that Goddart used (copied) he would have some heating troubles .)

I wonder really why goddart didnt develope bigger rockets as he worked for the Military well Bazooka wasnt bad .)

TAGERT.
12-13-2004, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
You missed my post then Tagert . I admited that parts of his work made it into the developing. But the problems developing heavy weight rockets are somewhat different , payload and center of gravity etc. So Basic ideas were used and modiefied or completely reworked. Its no copy at all . And you said its a copy. You can try to talk around it but you said copy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>See what happens when you take things out of context? You get all mixxed up! Read it again, and all of it, and note I said "copy of Goddards work" which is not to be confused with a copy of one of Goddards rockets!

BBB_Hyperion
12-13-2004, 10:37 PM
I noticed this difference !

I compared not only his work archivements but the results how they were of practical use. So i compared late archivements of goddard to that of other side russians had some intresting designs too.

He was without doubt one of the pioneers of rocket engineering. But the developement was from a point independed to goddards work. And did go further than goddard did get. Its a complete new developement tree to build heavy rockets cause only parts of goddarts work can be applied to it. There was no experience given in this part of terrain. And claiming its all a copy of goddards work seems a little unfitting concerning some of the Problems goddard never had to deal with or found a solution for.

When you change copy to partly influenced the developing process i would agree . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

meina222
12-14-2004, 06:50 AM
Yet again, if the V-2 was a copy of Goddard's work why did the United States military spent 6 years firing replicas of V-2s from White Sands
(a total of 62 launches, some claim 64.)

Apparently, the V-2 had something about it not found in any other prototype so indeed it was a huge development in rocketry design.

meina222
12-14-2004, 06:52 AM
I figured it! They had a total of 64 captured V-2s! If you had them wouldn't you fire them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - hell that's so much fun

ednavar
12-14-2004, 08:53 AM
going back to the thread subject:
nice to have the V2 object!!

..and regarding Tagert contribution:

MY ROCKET IS BIGGER THAN YOURS!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

S!

ZG77_Nagual
12-14-2004, 09:16 AM
Not to worry - soon our country will be out of both money and power - then you can tell us what's true.

TAGERT.
12-14-2004, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
Not to worry - soon our country will be out of both money and power - then you can tell us what's true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I said it b4 and Ill say it again.. I see alot of dancing around the truth.. Alot of words like "bias" and "opinion" and "money" this and "power" that being toss out in the hopes it will stick... But the ONE thing I did NOT see is anything addressing all the FIRSTS by Goddard most if not all that were USED on the V2

ZG77_Nagual
12-14-2004, 09:37 AM
Well, in all seriousness - science is science. Inevitably when you are working on the same sort of thing you are apt to come up with some of the same sorts of ideas. Quite obviously the v2 is way past anything Goddard did - whether some of his work found it's way in to german hands is more than likely - whether they could've done without it is probably moot. If the point is they weren't the first - well that's one thing. But if you are working on something like that I'd say it'd be kinda silly not to avail yourself of all existing research.
After-all; it is rocket science.

Fehler
12-14-2004, 10:32 AM
I remember doing a substantial amount of reading on rockets for (Oddly enough) an English paper way back when I was in high school.

Goddard was a very brilliant man for his time, and I read many articles suggesting that a great deal of his research was further developed by the Germans and Von Braun.

Could the Germans have developed their rocket program to the level it attained in WWII without work previously done by Goddard? No one could possibly answer that with anything less than a hypothetical. Just like no one can honestly answer if the US's Atlas and Titan missile programs would have been achieved at their time in history without the work of Von Braun.

But either way, it would be a great object to have in the game, even if it were only a static object.

Aaron_GT
12-14-2004, 10:45 AM
Germany's lead rocket developer prior to Von Braun was Oberth who was experimenting on much the same things as Goddard at a fairly similar moment. Oberth originally filed his PhD in rocketry in 1922 and produced what was the standard text on the subject in the 1920s and 30s. Was he influenced by Goddard? Absolutely. Was Goddard influenced by Oberth? Yes, very probably. In the 1920s it was still an open area of research not yet drawn into the closed world of military development and articles were traded freely and all of the major players influenced each other.

The same is true in terms of jet and turboprop research (first turboprop was Hungarian, Britain and Germany were initially pretty much neck-and-neck on turbojet and turbofan development in the 1930s - it was always going to be a matter of chance which of them produced a working engine first). Again initially it was a matter of scientific research much reported in journals, although from the mid 1930s it got rather more closed due to commercial possibilities more than military.

We see much the same things today in many areas of science - lots of journals and firsts on various aspects coming from all sorts of places in the world, sometimes essentially simultaneously (e.g. human genome).