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ER_Loyalty
12-15-2004, 09:55 PM
I received the TrackIr3Pro, Vector (6DOF) Today and I must say I am completely amazed. You have to register a SN and Hash code to activate the Vector portion of the NEW Track Ir4 Software.
First I must say this to all existing TrackIr1/2 owners, I just moved up from a TrackIr2 and the difference in normal Tracking is unbelievable between the 2 and 3 pro. It is every bit worth the money to upgrade. I am giving my tir2 to my brother. The vector support added an erily realistic feeling in CFS3 it jas definately brought life back to that sim although I will admit I have been spoiled to the graphics in Il2 Series for so long the cockpits are not nearmy as detailed as Il2 series BUT, the vector works flwlessly no missing textures no nothing notta except ultra smooth and super controlable Vector 6dof view.
To all who are waiting on yours to ship to you, I can tell you do a defrag, get CFS3 reinstalled (Not to knock Il2 AT ALL) and get ready to get that CHit eatin grin on your face like you did when yo first experienced Track Ir2. It's gonna blow you away. PLEASE OLEG/UBI I beg you to stop all work on BoB and start focusing on those cockpits for the exising sim, IL2 AEP+FB+PF just wouldnt be complete without it. PLEASE Oleg, Please.

To all of you that think I am crazy, Just wait untill the orders trickle in and you will see more agreeing with me.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY AWESOMELY REALISTIC and has AGAIN changed my flight sim experience for ever. I have a 15 minutes Conversation with Austin Meyers (xplane.com) about adding full support for 6DOF and TrackIr3 Pro, I gave him the link and he watched the video and he said he had a TrackIr sitting on his desk, and it will more than likely be implementned at least by Build 9.0. I just Ordered 8.01 DVD.

Loyalty out

Chivas
12-15-2004, 11:39 PM
The Vector and Track IR3 Pro arrives tommorrow.
I would like to see all work on FB/PF end and Oleg concentrate on BOB. Its time to move on.

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 02:27 AM
It arrived at my doorstep today the 15th as scheduled, I have used it extensively you are going to love it man, to say the very least.

The greatest sims are never finished, Il2 Book should not be closed untill Oleg has gone through with a fine tooth comb and made sure that the Aircraft cockpits in the IL2 Series, including PF are 100% compatible and rebuilt around the Vector. Also I wished more indepth engine management were employed to the already overly abundant selection of aircraft, such as CheckList Start sequences. IMO NEW Player flyable aircraft resources should have went into Perfecting the Flight Models, net code and memory management. I know changeing the entire list of current aircraft cockpits would be extensive as a whole, I think a couple of the more popular aircraft from each country should AT LEAST be redone so Loyal IL2 followers could have a "Genuine Oleg stamped" TASTE of the Vector/Aep+PF=Fb combo while we all continue the long wait on BoB. Hands Down Il2 PERIOD is THE best WW2 sim to everygrace anyones HD, we cannot loet it die without Maddox/Vector support.

Loyalty Out

LEXX_Luthor
12-16-2004, 02:40 AM
0% of flight simmers use TrackIR (after rounding off from less than 1/2 percent http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). But, by the time BoB comes, that percentage should increase. Better, the Devs may use other methods of letting 100% of simmers use Pilot Lean without needing TrackIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 02:53 AM
That "It ain't fair if WE don't all have Track Ir" Is total BS. And needs to stop. Don't knock it untill you have tried it.

holy_one_2
12-16-2004, 03:30 AM
"0% of flight simmers use TrackIR"
I thing U and others without trackir maybe just don't understand what trackir is.If U used only one time trackir with other hardware like throtle in left hand and rudder pedals then U will understand. I just don't imagine Guys flying without trickir.
I wathed the movie about 6DOF that will be revolutionhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
Regards

widgeon
12-16-2004, 05:00 AM
Lexx,

Time to turn on the lights http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Trackir is 50% of the experience , In my opinion.

Waiting on Vector myself.


Widgeon

Miki40
12-16-2004, 06:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ER_Loyalty:
I received the TrackIr3Pro, Vector (6DOF) Today and I must say I am completely amazed. You have to register a SN and Hash code to activate the Vector portion of the NEW Track Ir4 Software.
First I must say this to all existing TrackIr1/2 owners, I just moved up from a TrackIr2 and the difference in normal Tracking is unbelievable between the 2 and 3 pro. It is every bit worth the money to upgrade. I am giving my tir2 to my brother. The vector support added an erily realistic feeling in CFS3 it jas definately brought life back to that sim although I will admit I have been spoiled to the graphics in Il2 Series for so long the cockpits are not nearmy as detailed as Il2 series BUT, the vector works flwlessly no missing textures no nothing notta except ultra smooth and super controlable Vector 6dof view.
To all who are waiting on yours to ship to you, I can tell you do a defrag, get CFS3 reinstalled (Not to knock Il2 AT ALL) and get ready to get that CHit eatin grin on your face like you did when yo first experienced Track Ir2. It's gonna blow you away. PLEASE OLEG/UBI I beg you to stop all work on BoB and start focusing on those cockpits for the exising sim, IL2 AEP+FB+PF just wouldnt be complete without it. PLEASE Oleg, Please.

To all of you that think I am crazy, Just wait untill the orders trickle in and you will see more agreeing with me.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY AWESOMELY REALISTIC and has AGAIN changed my flight sim experience for ever. I have a 15 minutes Conversation with Austin Meyers (xplane.com) about adding full support for 6DOF and TrackIr3 Pro, I gave him the link and he watched the video and said it will be implementned before Build 9.0.

Loyalty out <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got it , this mornig , cheered me up big time.
Fantastic even in 2DOF IL2 PF , much better. Waiting now for CFS3 and Firepower to try 6DOF as well.! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Willey
12-16-2004, 08:45 AM
Well, Track IR 1 sucks. But Vector should rock, because it can differ between head position and head turn. I hated it when my view went off when I just leaned half a millimeter. And then at 90? left it broke because the borders were highly inaccurate. But that was fixed with the 2nd TIR AFAIK, but I never got me one. I'd get me a TIR 3 Pro with Vector, but apart from FB-PF, I couldn't use it in any other game or sim right now.

BM357_TinMan
12-16-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ER_Loyalty:
I have a 15 minutes Conversation with Austin Meyers (xplane.com) about adding full support for 6DOF and TrackIr3 Pro, I gave him the link and he watched the video and said it will be implementned before Build 9.0.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You spoke with Austin? That's cool. I hope that they do implement this with Full 3d V/C in X-Plane. Right now, the only option for TrackIR in X-Plane is X-Cockpit. X-Cockpit is cool, but There is only ONE completed V/C and I'm not sure if it is completely 3d and it is an addon by the people that made x-cockpit. Plus, I don't know if X-Cockpit is 6dof usable.

All that being said to say that if Austin will put full 3d cockpits with full 6dof usability with out the need for extra plug-ins, just trackIR3, then I will most certainly buy v8.0 (I have 7 now)

TheGozr
12-16-2004, 01:59 PM
Track ir 4 software with tir 3 pro Kill by far the 1 and 2 tir. It's measing the difference in smoothness.

CSF3 is back with this methode for a testing ground. still awfully made but we can see what thos 6 dof can do.
If BOB will not support it it will die.SO oleg must includ it if he want to see success.

|CoB|_Spectre
12-16-2004, 01:59 PM
I'm happy for all you guys and gals that have TrackIR. I'm sure it provides enhanced immersion to the software that supports it, especially with the new 6DOF feature. Personally, I would've thought VR headsets would've become commonplace by this time, but I would have been basing that prediction on the fact that there was VR headset support in EF2000, IMHO the defacto standard of air combat sims in 1995 and years beyond. TrackIR sounds very cool, but you must realize it all comes down to marketing demographics and if there's not a fairly high percentage of the installed user base demanding 6DOF support, the developer cannot justify the time and expense of revamping a product that is in its twilight. I cannot work the TrackIR into my budget, but don't begrudge those who can. Your posts take on an evangelical tone of excitement. Nonetheless, 1C:Maddox is a business, one comprised of a small cadre of programmers and artists. Oleg says they are struggling to keep the product alive and their survival hinges upon their next sellable product...not the one that's been bought and paid for. We're lucky he continues to tweak and add-to the sim. He gets no additional money for doing this and it must be loyalty to his buying public that spurs him on. To ask him to cease work on his next meal ticket is a bit beyond reason, don't you think?

Bearcat99
12-16-2004, 02:56 PM
Spectre I couldnt have said that any better at all. I also think that once the novelty of 6DoF wears off in CFS the same sub par qualities that made people leave it in the first place will reassert themselves.

Stanger_361st
12-16-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
I'm happy for all you guys and gals that have TrackIR. I'm sure it provides enhanced immersion to the software that supports it, especially with the new 6DOF feature. Personally, I would've thought VR headsets would've become commonplace by this time, but I would have been basing that prediction on the fact that there was VR headset support in EF2000, IMHO the defacto standard of air combat sims in 1995 and years beyond. TrackIR sounds very cool, but you must realize it all comes down to marketing demographics and if there's not a fairly high percentage of the installed user base demanding 6DOF support, the developer cannot justify the time and expense of revamping a product that is in its twilight. I cannot work the TrackIR into my budget, but don't begrudge those who can. Your posts take on an evangelical tone of excitement. Nonetheless, 1C:Maddox is a business, one comprised of a small cadre of programmers and artists. Oleg says they are struggling to keep the product alive and their survival hinges upon their next sellable product...not the one that's been bought and paid for. We're lucky he continues to tweak and add-to the sim. He gets no additional money for doing this and it must be loyalty to his buying public that spurs him on. To ask him to cease work on his next meal ticket is a bit beyond reason, don't you think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice Post.
I have trackir3 pro and love it. Yes I am disapointed it will not be a go for Pacific. I undestand the complications of implementing it. Not worth it to spend more money in a sim that is already released. I am thankful for what we got now. Flight sim gamming might be on thin ice in the future.

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
I'm happy for all you guys and gals that have TrackIR. I'm sure it provides enhanced immersion to the software that supports it, especially with the new 6DOF feature. Personally, I would've thought VR headsets would've become commonplace by this time, but I would have been basing that prediction on the fact that there was VR headset support in EF2000, IMHO the defacto standard of air combat sims in 1995 and years beyond. TrackIR sounds very cool, but you must realize it all comes down to marketing demographics and if there's not a fairly high percentage of the installed user base demanding 6DOF support, the developer cannot justify the time and expense of revamping a product that is in its twilight. I cannot work the TrackIR into my budget, but don't begrudge those who can. Your posts take on an evangelical tone of excitement. Nonetheless, 1C:Maddox is a business, one comprised of a small cadre of programmers and artists. Oleg says they are struggling to keep the product alive and their survival hinges upon their next sellable product...not the one that's been bought and paid for. We're lucky he continues to tweak and add-to the sim. He gets no additional money for doing this and it must be loyalty to his buying public that spurs him on. To ask him to cease work on his next meal ticket is a bit beyond reason, don't you think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I never looked at it that way, you are right, it is selfish for me to think that way. But I still want it done just not at the expence of Maddox teams lively hood. People like Maddox are few and far between in this flight sim market.

Scen
12-16-2004, 03:53 PM
I can see the point about having a selfish view but I also can point out most guys that don't want 6DOF in PF don't actually own a TIR.

Not sure who is calling the kettle black here but something is wrong.

I agree... Maybe it will mess up some of the cockpits but it doesn't mean I don't want it in the sim. It's simple. I would love to see 6DOF in my favorite sim.

Anways I get mine tonight.

Scendore

|CoB|_Spectre
12-16-2004, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scen:
I can see the point about having a selfish view but I also can point out most guys that don't want 6DOF in PF don't actually own a TIR.

Not sure who is calling the kettle black here but something is wrong.

I agree... Maybe it will mess up some of the cockpits but it doesn't mean I don't want it in the sim. It's simple. I would love to see 6DOF in my favorite sim.

Anways I get mine tonight.

Scendore <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm happy for you, Scen. I don't think anybody's calling anyone, anything. Just trying to point out the realities of the business of software development and limited resources. Consider Oleg's team of a half dozen against the resources of Microsoft, then consider the support and accomodation you get from the former...the lack thereof from the latter. No one can blame you for wanting 6DOF in our favorite sim. Heck, I'd love to have a TiR myself even without Vector, but I've got certain realities to deal with as does 1C:Maddox. Keep a stiff upper lip, it may well be that BoB will support it. A lot easier to build it in from the outset rather than retrofitting it to a platform that has seen its day, even though we're having a ball with it. Happy holidays...now, enjoy that TrackIR http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheGozr
12-16-2004, 04:59 PM
Rather forget about flight sims if i can't get my track ir work.

We need more and more it's how things goes. AND IT"S GOOD>
more pleoples want things better everything will get. more competitions and better it will get.
Just choose the right things.

LEXX_Luthor
12-16-2004, 05:48 PM
Scen:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I also can point out most guys that don't want 6DOF in PF don't actually own a TIR. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well Said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

We want Pilot Lean.

This "6FOD" -- name for any implementation of Pilot Lean, or is it Trademark for TrackIR manufacturer only?

Everybody knows what Pilot Lean means. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Worse for Natural Point's stock on Wall Street, I am experienced Mouse Look user, and don't need or want TrackIR (NP will advertise different http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). For a *very* good reason is Mouse Look silently ignored in all discussions comparing TrackIR and JoyStick HatSwitch -- yuck I only use joy buttons for Zoom and Gunsight views on a 3 button stick.

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 07:31 PM
6DOF isn't just "PILOT LEAN".
It gives movement within the cockpit in all directions. These directions include the ability to just simply move your head slightly closer to the monitor and it is like you moved your head closer to the instruments in the sim.
The pilot lean would be more comparable to putting your face on the cockpit canopy and then looking down. 6DOF gives you the ability to virtually have you HEAD in the SIM, This means if you want to look at the instruments closer then move your head closer toward the monitor, if you drop your virtual map (...JK)in between the seat and the Door you can look in between them. If you think that there might be a Virtual Spider underneath the cockpit in the Rudder pedal area then you can look under the dash. It all moves super smooth and realistic as if you were really sitting there.
The best way to explain the vector is like this: Sit inside your car or PLANE if you have a real one, then starts looking all around the inside, go ahead look under the dash, turn around and look in the back seat....can't see the seat behind the one you are looking at? Fine just move your head over so you CAN see it, is the Flight Yoke or steering wheel block your view to some of the controls? Just lean forward and to which ever side they are on and you will see them. Just like described above in a real life situation the same thing can be done now in the virtual world with VECTOR, complete 3D head/veiw movement within Sims that's what you get with TrackIr3Pro and Vector.

To my knowledge most cockpits and aircraft skins are built complete with no missing textures then as they are molded in the sim and view limits get set then the rest of the plane and parts of the planes textures are removed to increase Frame Rates. This method seems to have bitten someone. I think if Oleg dug deep enough into the archives he might be able to pull out some complete textured versions of the existing airplanes (I am probably dead wrong) that would be 6DOF compatible, but then the FPS would shot to hell. I don't Maddox/1C to suffer personally on terms of finances to make this happen for IL2 series, but I thank UBI ought to step to the plate on this one and PAY the Maddox team to do it. Publishers can money hungry selfish pigs if they choose to I have seen numerous Sims and games never see the light of day because of ATARIS (HASBRO Int.) hunger for money.

Another thing is people keep saying: "IL2 series has seen it's day it's time to move on to BoB". I think Il2 is in its prime, and has enough followers to support a need for UBI to financially back Maddox to make this Vector happen for the IL2 series.

Just think about it this way UBI/Maddox if someone else was to release another WW2 sim in the same era as Il2 with Full 6DOF support, it would definitely Impact the Sales of BoB.
Without full 6DOF support Il2 will be in its twilight.

I have been and still am an active beta tester for 3 companies. One of those companies is producing a new flight sim and the 3dPits are being built around the Vector.

I can tell you right now what will be the Final Nail in the life of the Entire Maddox Sims era, and it's not 6DOF, but it is because of the reason Il2 can't support the 6dof in it's current state, and I mean full support not half azz missing textures and such. It is the consumer requests that will kill Il2. When Il2 came out it was so realistic it was scary, now the only thing everyone except certain people and you know who you are that everyone wants is: Big Black Dots so enemy can be spotted ill realistically at distances unreal, so that people with whatever reasons want it that way, then you got people that do nothing but ***** about Frame Rates because the certain people won't/can't go buy another better Gcard.
I don't see how someone with Oleg€s credentials for Aviation would even bother to listen to anyone make advice for a SIM that was a shared vision between him and his colleague at 1C. I at the point now where I don't hardly play IL2 online because I can't stand the quake3r's cheating habits, and these cheating habits include but are not limited to External Views, NO complex engine managing, Icons on, I mean can you imagine the frustration I go through when I am using a 450 dollar 3 part HOTAS a 185.00 viewing hardware system, I have a PPL in real life so I try not to pick up bad habits and maintain my radio etiquette, by starting the engine as it should be, taxiing like you should in real life, so basically I spend 15 minutes just getting my briefing, plane loaded, started and taxi to the runway and guess what? Some quake3r with external views on comes storming down the taxiway using it as a runway and I get killed. No one fly€s in formation except squads and then some of those don€t have a clue.
So basically I leave with the same feeling I get when I play quake or CS, a feeling of being in a room with a bunch of people doing MINDLESS worthless things that have now value other than wasting time and starting trouble.

In short the same community that thinks this IL2 Sims lives on will be the same community that kills it and where will they all be? Shaping up the kill for the next two month life span FPS's, and where will the Trackir vector/HOTAS owners be? Still flying the washed out Il2 and trying to find some simmers that can program the original VISION of the person that started the sim back in it.

I know some might be offended, I am here to tell you I mean no offense, I am a quake3r myself but I like Ultra Realistic sims. Sometimes the truth can hurt, kind of like when I ask my wife about things that were before me and then I get upset at the answer, I asked she just answered.

Anyone that try's to defend the accused is only out for the money and not for sim. Sims are going extinct, thus the reason UBI, Atari and others are really leery about investing any kind of money in flight Sims, why? Because the mainstream gaming lemmings do not want to think they want to daydream and press buttons and still win in the game.

Loyalty Out

BM357_TinMan
12-16-2004, 07:52 PM
Whoa there big fella (luther, bearcat)

I cut my teeth in IL2 using the mouse. I only bought TrackIR after months of using the mouse.

I can say, as a person who has gotten quite proficient at both, that the mouse view is, technicaly, slightly "***better***". And that is a heavily qualified "better".

Better in that precision is more easily attained. In this respect, and this respect ONLY is the mouse view better.

However, with the mouse, you loose an extraordinary amount of immmersion that you would gain compared to TrackIR and, once you get used to trackIR and take the time to set your profile up correctly, the precision that you can attain is about 90+% of that you can get with the mouse.

Um, alot of the trackIR naysayers seem to me to be those that

a. have never tried it
or
b. have tried it and not given it a chance or didn't bother to make it work right.

For a long time I was an "a" person. I thought that the mouse worked just fine, why would I waiste money on trackIR. After I broke down and bought it and gave it a fair shake at getting it to work proper, I can tell you this, mouse (although a bit more precise) is no where near as good.

BTW, I HAVE tried 6dof in FS2K4 and CFS3 and it is NOT pilot lean....

-Edit: This post, in no way, should be construed as a "please give us 6dof in FB" post. It is only a statement addressing those that think that 6dof is "no big deal". Beleive me, I understand completely if Oleg and co. don't have the desire or the resources to revamp what is basically a almost what, 4? year old engine. They have done an excellent job revising it up to this date and it is well more than "good enough" to keep us happy until the advent of BoB.

Il2pongo
12-16-2004, 09:01 PM
Track IR3Pro is as accurate as a mouse.

I have the vector kit on order but have installed the new Trackir3 driver..
The new driver alone improved PF. I think quite a bit even without a bit of tweaking.

Aces High implemented Vector in 2 days. It has the advantage in that while the cockpits are far far more simple then Il2s, all the objects are modeled all around and the game engine allready impliments the head moving.

But all Track IR users should get the new driver at the very least.

LEXX_Luthor
12-16-2004, 09:13 PM
Yes, mouse is as accurate as TrackIR3Pro.

As TAGERT would post <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Agreed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All simmers can pay for a mouse.

What's this I hear about needing to register your new TrackIR over the internet before it works? Saw something about that in arstechnica article.

Something bizzare happening here.

Wolf-Strike
12-16-2004, 09:42 PM
Can some one help me out here.I am interested in the TIR if it can prevent a problem I have with not being able to tilt your head.

I like to lean my head side to side in the cockpit as it brings me more feeling of flight.But I have heard that TIR doesnt allow this because it senses the tilt and conveys this to screen movement.

Now with the Vector upgrade it looks as though you can tilt your head side to side and the TIR3 can differentiate this as lean and nothing will happen.an anyone say if this is true??

Dale

BM357_TinMan
12-16-2004, 09:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Yes, mouse is as accurate as TrackIR3Pro.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

?huh?

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 09:46 PM
[QUOTE

What's this I hear about needing to register your new TrackIR over the internet before it works? Saw something about that in arstechnica article.

Something bizzare happening here.[/QUOTE]



When you see the Vector you will notice that it could easily be hand or machine made. It has no electronics. SO the way they make sure they get their 50 bucks for the add-on is to make you put in a code at www.trackirvector.com (http://www.trackirvector.com) , then they email you a security attachment that you place in your Tir file, then, Voila you now have 6DOF control in the New Tir drivers.

ER_Loyalty
12-16-2004, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolf-Strike:
Can some one help me out here.I am interested in the TIR if it can prevent a problem I have with not being able to tilt your head.

I like to lean my head side to side in the cockpit as it brings me more feeling of flight.But I have heard that TIR doesnt allow this because it senses the tilt and conveys this to screen movement.

Now with the Vector upgrade it looks as though you can tilt your head side to side and the TIR3 can differentiate this as lean and nothing will happen.an anyone say if this is true??

Dale <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Track Ir Vector will know the difference between leaning your head over (Touching your ear to your shoulder) versus Keeping you head still and using your torso to lean left and right. Hope this makes sence.

I will say again though to give your self an example of the Vector works, go sit in your car and look around, under, higher, lower, inbetween, just basically look around while moveing your torso, back, neck and head. That's the best way demonstrate without actually using it.

Also FYI. you can order the Track Ir system at www.edimensional.com (http://www.edimensional.com) , they will ship COD, and give you 30 days to try it for a full refund if you dont like it.

LEXX_Luthor
12-16-2004, 10:57 PM
Thanks ER, that makes sense, no moving parts. Which means the price can drop to where all flight simmers can own one, but that may require alternative Choices of manufacurer before we can afford it.

Pilot Lean issues here...I see this new thing means continous smooth leaning, but hat-switch would require instant jump leaning. Perhaps both can be put into a sim. Then, all simmers can use Pilot Lean.

Wolf-Strike
12-16-2004, 11:56 PM
Kool...thanks ER.I will take them up on their 30 days full refund also.I believe that I will keep it thoughhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

xTHRUDx
12-17-2004, 12:44 AM
i just saw this video demo on it and i'm in.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~hotdognz/Files/fs96DOF.wmv

i have TIR 1 and i can't wait to upgrade after seeing that.

that's a shame about no Oleg support. there would be no more 190 cockpit view threads.

GAU-8
12-17-2004, 01:23 AM
i personally believe that the track-IR users in number are greater than most of us think.

think about this, if many of you think 6-D.O.F is NOT worth the time to implement into IL2 series... then why was the ORIGINAL track-IR put in??

apon the release of F.B., track-IR was coded into the sim, wheras IL-2 was not equipped.(it had mouse emulation, but that wase it, even lesser amounts of track-IR fans then...and their voice helped put it in)

if our numbers are that small, dont ya think it wouldnt have been implemented at all?

fast forward a few years. the event of VECTOR/6-D.O.F. the same situation has come up, but VASTLY greater than the event of track-IR in itself.

track-IR users see the future, and what "current" tech will be. we took the chance, and the majority of us are very happy users. even if an extra 50 bones for some reason was absolutely hard to come by, track-IR users are going to upgrade to VECTOR... this is one of the very few items that might cost you extra money, but are worth the next step up.

take a chance guys, if you dont have track-IR, go BUY it... after you get used to in about a week you too will be wanting to get this in game ...even without cockpit fixing, just for an inch or two of movement to help reduce cockpit blindspots

BTW- wolfstrike, i too was a serious head leaner, due to sportbike riding. i thought it was going to be an issue at first, but after a bit, you curb your leaning tendencies.. (BUT IF 6dof WAS put in... head lean away with awesome effect) cant wait for tilted cockpit yet "level head with horizon " views. just like your there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
12-17-2004, 05:59 AM
"Track IR3Pro is as accurate as a mouse. "

If you can keep your head still at the critical moments!

Aaron_GT
12-17-2004, 06:01 AM
"then why was the ORIGINAL track-IR put in??"

Er.. because it took no more effort to support that than other forms of panning around the cockpit?

GAU-8
12-17-2004, 06:36 AM
AaronGT,

your probably right! kinda tired, and posted what i thought without thinkin all the way thru. goin teh sleep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Scen
12-17-2004, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Yes, mouse is as accurate as TrackIR3Pro.

As TAGERT would post <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Agreed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All simmers can pay for a mouse.

What's this I hear about needing to register your new TrackIR over the internet before it works? Saw something about that in arstechnica article.

Something bizzare happening here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL

Uhhh you're slighly misinformed. You don't have to register your TIR over the net to get it to work.

What they are talking about is Vector (6DOF). Instead of shipping CDs with the Vector addon they just updated the software and posted it online. Version 4.0 has the new tracking ability and in order for you to get Vector you have to pay for it. Once you pay for it they give you a code and you enter in the information they send you a license over the internet.

Anyone can download version 4.0 you have to pay to enable Vector.

Scendore

Aaron_GT
12-17-2004, 11:53 AM
"AaronGT,

your probably right! kinda tired,"

No problem, GAU-8!

I'd love 6DOF support too, I just think that it is best to let Oleg get on with BoB first. Anyway it means I don't have to buy the 6DOF expansion quite yet in that case :-)

Aaron_GT
12-17-2004, 11:54 AM
The 4.0 software seems to improve tracking stability just for 2DOF.

tracker45
12-17-2004, 12:17 PM
Just tried it out last night,, and wow !!!
In my opinion it improves 2dof in Pacific Fighters quite a bit, but, I had my Trackir3 with the old (3.12) software tweaked pretty good.
That said,, if I were to upgrade from a Trackir1 or 2, I would probably consider the Vector Expansion a good buy.

Then I tried it with Fs2004. Wasn't a big fan of Microsoft sims but I like the helicopters. All I can say is the 6dof blew me away.
You can easily tweak the profiles so your virtual head doesn't move to far as to stick through the side of the fusalage. Unless you like that or for instance fly a chopper of J3Cub with no doors.
I actually have a profile for wide cockpit aircraft and one for the tight (fighter style) cockpits,, but I'm still experimenting.

Anyhow,, after trying 6dof I am even more convinced that supporting it in the IL-2 series would add very much to the sim.I think Pacific Fighters will be around for a long time, even after the release of BoB.
Even limited axis travel( a few virtual inches) in the 4 new axis ,would greatly improve immersion.

carguy_
12-17-2004, 01:25 PM
Lexx,knock it off with the socialistic "fair" policy dude!This aint Cuba!

There currently is no technology that would let simmers that can`t afford TrackIR play on the same terms as those that can.

Cam2Pan is a waste of time,whoever has a internet cam anyway?

TrackIr aswell as this new gadget give advantage to those who pay money.That`s ok with me cuz IMO buying TrackIR is crazy and irrational so who am I to complain about those that use it.


TrackIR and 6DOF are good because industries have income and simmers are comfortable with the viewing system.

I have no problem with that.

I`m just saying,Lexx - money rule the world hence also those that have money.You won`t change it so why to brag about it.It`s not like "poor" simmers will pay someone to make the hat as good as TrackIr,huh?

OldMan____
12-17-2004, 01:38 PM
Well.. I am one that do not like Track IR (just doesn't like)..

so only thing I want is NOT OBLIGATED track ir (as a joystick is obligated).


and you don need to be socialist or poor to not want to pay for it (don get me wrong.. I like socialism).


I payed 29 dollars for PF (yes.. software is less expensive here than in US) but the cheapest track ir would arrive here for 200 dollars at least (taxes and transportation) the really good ones reach 400 dollars. Not quite as easy to pay as many think. I would prefer to spend this money in a 6800 Ultra card.

macd1102
12-17-2004, 08:40 PM
how can trackir give you more advantage, i see know difference in the guys who go out and by all the ch products for better control, those with cheaper joysticks still compete against them with know problem

ER_Loyalty
12-18-2004, 12:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macd1102:
how can trackir give you more advantage, i see know difference in the guys who go out and by all the ch products for better control, those with cheaper joysticks still compete against them with know problem <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


TrackIr/Vector/HOTAS & Rudder Pedals gives an advantage, not over other Virtual Pilots but to the Pilot using the products.

TrackIr/Vector Advantages:

NUMBER ONE) The ability to free up all buttons on your HOTAS that have to with View control and padlocking. In the TrackIr world you can enjoy your flight more and concentrate on Flying rather than always having to finagle the best view with mouse and hat switches. In real life padlocking and hatswitches to control views don't exist.

2) The immersion factor using TrackIr/Vector in the sim is 100% more than it is without it.
which means more enjoyment for me and you.

3) Being able to view the environment in the cockpit and in the world as you would in reality, if you want to look at a button behind the throttle lever without unrealisticaly moving the throttle to see it, you just move your head so that you can see it just like in real life.

4) More realistic flying, period.


HIGH QUALITY HOTAS advantages:

1) More control, CH HOTAS has 132 programmable functions.

2) 100% More precision than cheaper Joysticks, With ch Hotas I comfortably go under any bridge at high speeds without worrying about hitting it, in a high tention dogfight chase.
I can execute aerobatic menuevers with dead on response.

3) And then of course there is the immersion factor again, being able to basically eliminate the keyboard & mouse to give you that feeling you are in a real aircraft. Plus anyone that really flys does'nt want to pick up bad habits if they fly sims alot like me.

4) More comfortable feel.

The first time I flew with CH instead of the MSFFB I was totaly amazed at the difference in control, I actually felt at that moment that I had been cheating myself by not using this, thats how much more precise it is, when you use it-it is the first thing you notice.


That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Loyalty Out

macd1102
12-18-2004, 03:31 AM
i agree, thats my point, to those who claim trackir gives the user an unfair advantage, its know more an advantage the those of other hardware have, i have trackir pro 3, love it, not for any advantage but first it frees up your hands, and to get as immersed into the sim as possible, same as i do with other sims, ie my racing sims

TheGozr
12-18-2004, 04:43 AM
LEXX_Luthor stop that .
Seriously don't fight the progress , Deal with it don't rent 2 or 3dvds for week, 2 restaurant for 1 person and a coke and you have your track ir pro.
Face it.
What would youy say if i say that if il2 play better on a Pentium 2 450 Mhz with tnt2 16 mb video...... For us track ir user You sound the same...and funny..

I would take all the time we need to set it up with you.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Listen..*********** this is a track ir calling you***** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
12-18-2004, 05:04 PM
I've been using Track IR 1 for almost a year now, and have been happy with what it has provided for game emersion. My Track IR3Pro arrived yesterday with the expansion pack... Let me tell you something...This is incredible!!! Being able to move you head to peer around the canopy frame during formation flying, or scanning the skies in unpresedented smoothnes is mindboggling.

It's almost like being there!

I'm a PTO fan, and I'm burnt out on the whole ETO theme, so I am not looking forward to BoB's release other than to see the new eyecandy. I truely wish they would make the effort to at least make this work in the Pure PF version.