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View Full Version : Was Altair drugged at the beginning of Assassin's Creed 1?



CRUDFACE
07-17-2011, 08:35 AM
So I was replaying AC1 for the awesome stuff and deeper bad guys of course, and I remembered how awesome the opening was with Altair. In it, he's in a group of faceless woman with the shape of Al-Mualim, and if you look at it closely, it's like the blue of Altair's eagle vision is flickering instead of staying the constant bright blue of an ally.

If a person is given enough drugs, can they screw up your eagle vision/sense?

FiskMunk
07-17-2011, 08:45 AM
Huh, I never thought of that - I always thought it was due to Desmond failing to synchronize properly with the last memory sequence.
But could it simply have been a memory of Alta´r tripping balls?

iN3krO
07-17-2011, 09:05 AM
Actually, as lucy explained, desmond was confused and had to return to a better memory (in the temple)... same happened with Ezio in AcB but desmond was already used to it and could see the faces better....

CRUDFACE
07-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by FiskMunk:
Huh, I never thought of that - I always thought it was due to Desmond failing to synchronize properly with the last memory sequence.
But could it simply have been a memory of Alta´r tripping balls?

Yeah, but I was thinking that he didn't have eagle vision on either and that I read that the leader of the assassins in real life used to drug his assassins and make them think that he could take them to heaven. While I do know that Desmond was having troubles synching up, it seems like Altair was going through some weird stuff...essentially tripping balls, lol, never heard of that expression before!

Like, even though it was a synch problem, it might be the reason why Altair saw Al Mualim as blue=ally instead of red for the bastard that he was.

iN3krO
07-17-2011, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FiskMunk:
Huh, I never thought of that - I always thought it was due to Desmond failing to synchronize properly with the last memory sequence.
But could it simply have been a memory of Alta´r tripping balls?

Yeah, but I was thinking that he didn't have eagle vision on either and that I read that the leader of the assassins in real life used to drug his assassins and make them think that he could take them to heaven. While I do know that Desmond was having troubles synching up, it seems like Altair was going through some weird stuff...essentially tripping balls, lol, never heard of that expression before!

Like, even though it was a synch problem, it might be the reason why Altair saw Al Mualim as blue=ally instead of red for the bastard that he was. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eagle vision only shows what altair thinks of ppl... Al-Muhalim was always an altair ally, he tried to get altair to his cause but he failed and that's why altair sees him as red in the last mission, cuz altair doesn't like al-muhalim anymore...

It's a color representation of how the character recives that guy.

CRUDFACE
07-17-2011, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FiskMunk:
Huh, I never thought of that - I always thought it was due to Desmond failing to synchronize properly with the last memory sequence.
But could it simply have been a memory of Alta´r tripping balls?

Yeah, but I was thinking that he didn't have eagle vision on either and that I read that the leader of the assassins in real life used to drug his assassins and make them think that he could take them to heaven. While I do know that Desmond was having troubles synching up, it seems like Altair was going through some weird stuff...essentially tripping balls, lol, never heard of that expression before!

Like, even though it was a synch problem, it might be the reason why Altair saw Al Mualim as blue=ally instead of red for the bastard that he was. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eagle vision only shows what altair thinks of ppl... Al-Muhalim was always an altair ally, he tried to get altair to his cause but he failed and that's why altair sees him as red in the last mission, cuz altair doesn't like al-muhalim anymore...

It's a color representation of how the character recives that guy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eagle vision sin't what they think of people, it's how they react to you, like their intentions and such influenced by the mind. But yeah, it was just a weirdly awesome scene to me

Turkiye96
07-17-2011, 02:00 PM
Well, im not sure about the relationship between drugs and eagle vision, but i do know Altair being an assassin to Al Mualim most likely got drugged. See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise). The man was really smart he used a simple trick mixed with religion to get a army that didn't fear death. He used to get recruits, drug them and them take them to his garden filled with water food wine and women all around them and then he would make them pass out and then take them to their room where they would wake up. Then he would say that he was the one who sent them to ''heaven'' or ''the garden of eden'' and that just as long as the recruit worked for his if he died, he would go to heaven so he shouldn't be afriad of death... and so on, google it

iN3krO
07-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
Well, im not sure about the relationship between drugs and eagle vision, but i do know Altair being an assassin to Al Mualim most likely got drugged. See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise). The man was really smart he used a simple trick mixed with religion to get a army that didn't fear death. He used to get recruits, drug them and them take them to his garden filled with water food wine and women all around them and then he would make them pass out and then take them to their room where they would wake up. Then he would say that he was the one who sent them to ''heaven'' or ''the garden of eden'' and that just as long as the recruit worked for his if he died, he would go to heaven so he shouldn't be afriad of death... and so on, google it

So you mean altair was not as good person as he seems to be in the last sequences of Ac1? :O

clyde252525
07-17-2011, 06:01 PM
well, idk about the game but in real life assassins were dossed up with amphetamine and cocaine before sending them on assassinations, same with kamikazes that were drugged up with cocaine. A normal person without the influence of heavy drugs ain't going to go and put their lives on the line to do the things these people did.

CRUDFACE
07-17-2011, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
Well, im not sure about the relationship between drugs and eagle vision, but i do know Altair being an assassin to Al Mualim most likely got drugged. See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise). The man was really smart he used a simple trick mixed with religion to get a army that didn't fear death. He used to get recruits, drug them and them take them to his garden filled with water food wine and women all around them and then he would make them pass out and then take them to their room where they would wake up. Then he would say that he was the one who sent them to ''heaven'' or ''the garden of eden'' and that just as long as the recruit worked for his if he died, he would go to heaven so he shouldn't be afriad of death... and so on, google it

So you mean altair was not as good person as he seems to be in the last sequences of Ac1? :O </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the leaders are different and we really didn't see more of the drug induced scenes. And it doesn't mean Altair wasn't a good guy by the end of it. Lol, I wish that was in the codex.

"For a proper assassination to work, the proper drugs must be prepared. And the The Apple has guided me to this great concoction of the mind. Here it is, the revelation!"

SleezeRocker
07-17-2011, 08:38 PM
Honestly, when I 1st picked up Assasisn's Creed back in 08 when I got my PS3 (along with MGS4 and Soul Cal 4), after being in that place with psychedelic stuff happening and near half naked faceless chicks and the Desmond out of the Animus: Follwing I thought:

1. Whoah...so is this Altair Assassin some playa?
2. WTFreak? Is this like some Matrix Sh...?

lol

eagleforlife1
07-18-2011, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise).

Just to point out Al Mualim wasn't based on Hassan-i Sabbah but this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan

twangling
07-18-2011, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
Well, im not sure about the relationship between drugs and eagle vision, but i do know Altair being an assassin to Al Mualim most likely got drugged. See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise). The man was really smart he used a simple trick mixed with religion to get a army that didn't fear death. He used to get recruits, drug them and them take them to his garden filled with water food wine and women all around them and then he would make them pass out and then take them to their room where they would wake up. Then he would say that he was the one who sent them to ''heaven'' or ''the garden of eden'' and that just as long as the recruit worked for his if he died, he would go to heaven so he shouldn't be afriad of death... and so on, google it
Well, as far as my reading goes, there has never been any hard evidence that the Assassins in history were drugged before carrying out a mission. It was mostly rumors. Rumors that got spread by their enemies at the time, who didn't believe one would sacrifice their lives so readily and voluntarily. But the Assassins were Nizari Ismailis, the underdog and the persecuted, and they called themselves "fedayeen", meaning "those who sacrifice for their chosen course". So it seems they had a clear idea what awaited them, rather than being a bunch of gullible, Mary J addictive puppets.

As for why the aforementioned scene appeared in AC1, I tend to believe it's 1) indicative of Desmond's mental instability at the moment, and 2) a homage to the novel "Alamut". But it never says anywhere in the game that Altair uses drugs. On the other hand, if I remember it right, during the sequence of Garnier de Naplouse there was a conversation between Altair and the Rafiq, in which they say (and I paraphrase) "some people wrongly accuse us of using the same thing Garnier does on his patients (i.e. drugs)". So I guess Ubi's approach to this issue is pretty evident.

By the way, Al Mualim is not modeled after Hassan ibn-Sabbah, but after Rashid ad-Din Sinan, an autonomic Syrian Assassin Leader also known as "The Old Man of the Mountain".

iN3krO
07-18-2011, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by eagleforlife1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise).

Just to point out Al Mualim wasn't based on Hassan-i Sabbah but this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Templars changed dates, they want to make us believe that Conrad of Montferrat died in 1192 but in fact he died in 1191 in the hands of altair, with a hidden blade in his neck after he spoke to his army.

I know the truth, i came from the future, i am subject 16, ****** Miles.

^
|

JOKE :P

CRUDFACE
07-18-2011, 07:15 AM
just making sure, but because of desmond de-synching like that, the only side effect were people with no faces, flickering lights and the girls looking weird,right?

Wouldn't that mean that Altair, in the clear version was really there in the garden, thinking he was in heaven or something like that in the clearer form? And if Al Mualim did ever drug them, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't tell them about it.

swiftkinfe
07-18-2011, 08:12 AM
Thats not to say Altair was never back in that area.And there just was a bunch of women at the moment. I think it did have something to do with Desmond unable to sync to the correct date and the Animus hardware was throwing things in at random time frames trying to set up a safer date.

ShaneO7K
07-18-2011, 08:19 AM
It's said at the start of AC1 that Desmond is having problems adjusting to the animus and syncing with that memory, similar with what happens in Brotherhood.

blazefp
07-19-2011, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
Actually, as lucy explained, desmond was confused and had to return to a better memory (in the temple)... same happened with Ezio in AcB but desmond was already used to it and could see the faces better....


Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
It's said at the start of AC1 that Desmond is having problems adjusting to the animus and syncing with that memory, similar with what happens in Brotherhood.

@dead_gunner187, Yeah quoting is so productive...

tH3PatRi0Tx1776
07-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Actually, there isn't any sufficient evidence of the Assassin's being drugged or using drugs. The Templar's and the other enemies of the Assassins made that up so that people would think poor of the Assassins and so that the people would dislike them. It was just a propaganda technique that worked very well. The Assassins had very high standards that frowned upon drug and alcohol use. There is even a story out there about how the leader of the Assassins killed his own son after his son had gotten drunk publicly.

Turkiye96
07-20-2011, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by eagleforlife1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
See while going through the history books i found out a lot about the Assassin order, their leader Hassan Sabbah ( Al mualim was moddeled after him character wise).

Just to point out Al Mualim wasn't based on Hassan-i Sabbah but this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
thanks, sorry i got a little mixed up

ohh and as for twang ling's comment,
you have taken some of my post out of context, see from the history books, it said that they were drugged at the very start when they just became assassins.. although it did say there was contraversy on the topic of weither or not they got drugged before assassinations. so what im trying to say is that Al mualim most likely did that to altair ( even though he had no part in willingly ) also he used a poison on altair ( to make it look like he was dead after the first sequence) and as for hard evidence, ''from the observations from Marco Polo during his travels to the Orient. He describes how the "Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or some kind of magic man, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request.''- wikipedia- this was also confirmed by Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall
and the whole point of they being drugged was so that they were utterly commited to their cause, they wanted to die for him ( to get to ''heaven'').

and i never said Altair uses drugs, i only said that he most probabally got drugged by al mualim but know that i think about it, just before he did his assassination missions he would chill in the assassin guild with the comfortable stuff... probabally just a coincidence...

oh and daniel_gervide dont worry, Altair was always good, a little missguided but still good. see as a young boy he learnt the assassin ways and morals of being good .see the Assassin's were a strict muslim sect that believed in being good ( and yet killing, but for a just cause). anyway Altair was an athiest and so he didnt buy into that and did it for the creed. he was devoted to the creed and bringing a ''better'' world (in his eyes) there cant be much said about the justifications of his acts or morale as that is nor ''good'' or ''bad''... it a grey area same with the templars. i mean they too wana achive world peace... even thogh i dilsike them...

and if altair willingly did take drugs, that doesn't make him a bad person! so what if he got high? i mean do you think that when a game character kills a bunch of people its fine, but the second he has a joint in 1 hand its too far? personally i think most drugs f you up so i stay clear... but you should have the freedom... just like with alcohol.

oh and where did you read that the master assassin killed his son? :P sounds interesting i wana read up on it too! :P i love history!

LightRey
07-21-2011, 08:32 AM
Didn't Al Mualim himself mention his enemies "accused" him of drugging the assassins (therefore implying he didn't)? I'm pretty sure Alta´r wasn't drugged. you even hear part of Al Mualim's speech to Altair at the end, which supports the fact already stated in the game by Lucy that he wasn't drugged, but that they attempted to access that particular memory and failed.
I'm sorry. It's a nice theory, but it just can't possibly be true.

CRUDFACE
07-22-2011, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Didn't Al Mualim himself mention his enemies "accused" him of drugging the assassins (therefore implying he didn't)? I'm pretty sure Alta´r wasn't drugged. you even hear part of Al Mualim's speech to Altair at the end, which supports the fact already stated in the game by Lucy that he wasn't drugged, but that they attempted to access that particular memory and failed.
I'm sorry. It's a nice theory, but it just can't possibly be true.

I didn't deny that at the beginning or now. I was just saying that while Desmond was having sync troubles, it seemed like Altair was doing something weird at the time where the garden was full of woman, and how Al-Mualim was preaching about knowing too much and his eagle vision was loopy. Because it was like Desmond had faults with the system, but only with the images flashing and people being faceless. And would you tell your followers if you were drugging them? Of course you wouldn't.

Basically, what I was saying is that the messed up sync caused glitches in scenes that might be otherwise real.

This memory is probably a nod before he meant Altair harm so he's blue for that. The scene might have simply been a nod to what an actual assassin leader did.

Yeah, I got that.

SquarePolo27
07-23-2011, 03:00 PM
*Possible, probable AC1 spoilers*
Vidic gets Desmond to access the final sequence, however like many people have said, Desmond couldn't cope. So it's the sequence with the face off of Altier and Al Mulim, but since it's a little dodgy, there are the faceless beggers this is possibly due to it then cutting to a street in one of the cities (Damascus I think) suggesting that they tried an earlier memory, where beggers are in the streets.