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VFA-195 Snacky
10-25-2004, 02:54 AM
Have a very good book on the F4U covering its complete History and all of its Stats from each theatre of operation and I found some very interesting stuff.

"Ordinarily the six Brownings were boresighted to converge thier pattern of fire at 1,000ft (that's 300 meters for all you metric folks) ahead of the aircraft. Squadrons varied, depending upon thier mission priorities, but typically the zone covered by the pattern was a circular area from 3 to 6 feet in diameter. A one-second burst from six .50-calibers delivered 80 rounds within that circle."

Yup it's a dead horse, but the data is out there and it deserves attention. Much more than what 2.04 delivered.
a little more-

"The three most common .50-caliber ammunition types were ball, tracer, and ARMOR PIERCING incendiary. They were belted in various combinations, again depending upon squadron preference and mission requirements. For instance, some units or individual pilots disliked tracers because they warned an otherwise unwary enemy aviator that he was under attack. If the first burst missed- a frequent occurence- the sudden light show flashing around the target aircraft removed all doubt as to it's peril. Other pilots liked tracers as an aiming aid, while some squadrons used them as the last several rounds in each gun to indicate an impending status of "Ammo Minus"."

and something we don't have.

"Armor-piercing incendiaries (APIs) were dual- purpose ammunition. With a steel penetrator core beneath the copper jacket, they contained a small amount of phosphorous which could ignite when shot through armor plate into fuel tanks."

Just something to ponder as you waist thousands of rounds of 50 caliber BBs this winter.

Atomic_Marten
10-25-2004, 03:10 AM
Nice reading. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-25-2004, 04:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The sinking of the Yamato and Musashi demonstrated the deadly nature of the Corsair's 0.50 calibre machine guns. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh no http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

VFA-195 Snacky
10-25-2004, 04:25 AM
Um Luther, where exactly did you get that info? I said nothing of the sort nor do I believe such a idiotic thing.
I know it's tuff but try to stay focussed on the topic and be constructive.

LEXX_Luthor
10-25-2004, 04:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>where exactly did you get that info? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Yes, the FP Newbies will not have seen teh ubi Debates about .50 calibres taking out King Tiger tanks.

269GA-Veltro
10-25-2004, 04:42 AM
A gun camera....is better, colored. Again.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif....no laser in WW2....not again.

http://www.regiaaeronautica.com/Promet/Pacific_aa.avi

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
and something we don't have. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>oh ya ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
08/14/02 12:56PM


Here is the direct table of shells and bullets from source code of IL-2.
Comments:

power - here is the TNT, that also modelled (as well as pices of shells).

T - Tracer bullet
AP - Armor-Piercing bullet
APT - Armor-Piercing with Tracer
API - Armor-Piercing Incendary
APIT - Armor-Piercing Incendary Tracer
HE - High-Explosive shell
HEI - High-Explosive Incendary shell
HET - High-Explosive with Tracer
HEIT - High-Explosive Incendary Tracer
MG - M-Geschoss, thin-shell High Explosive

such line destinated the sequence of shells/bullets:
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API


Table itself.
==========================


Browning .303
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

API/APIT
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0.0018

AP
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0

Browning .50
// APIT - AP - HE - AP

APIT
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.002

AP
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0

HE
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i took a FW-190's wing off with ONE M2 round , ask LLv_Staffroty , he checked his log file , one hit

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
Just something to ponder as you waist thousands of rounds of 50 caliber BBs this winter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats the trouble with super tight dispersion , its harder to get multiple bullet strikes

JG54_Arnie
10-25-2004, 06:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
A gun camera....is better, colored. Again.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif....no laser in WW2....not again.

http://www.regiaaeronautica.com/Promet/Pacific_aa.avi <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm .50's are currently quite a bit overmoddeled seeing that. Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gryphonne
10-25-2004, 06:04 AM
Here we go again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

If the wing from an FW-190 falls off after one 50 cal hit, I wonder then what the MG151/20 should do? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Instant nuclear explosions?

Get real, you asked for tighter dispersion? now you actually have to aim. The following comment was posted in the MG151/20 thread by US/VVS pilots, here is one posted by the LW: learn to shoot!!

Regards,

Gryphon

dizeee
10-25-2004, 06:26 AM
is this a official 50 cal whining thread? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
anyway, for the 100th time. the ww2 m2 50cal round/gun was a machinegun. a heavy one, but still a machine gun. there is no one-sec-burst-killer. the original guncam footage gives you the best impression. just check for how long those guys are holding the trigger.
only thing that is off from pf and that gucam stuff is imho that we see way too many major structual failures in the game. too many wings falling off and especialy fuselages breaking in half.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
A gun camera....is better, colored. Again.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif....no laser in WW2....not again.

http://www.regiaaeronautica.com/Promet/Pacific_aa.avi <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bikewer
10-25-2004, 06:42 AM
"No one-second burst killer".

Would you like to take 80 rounds of .50 through your buick?

We shot the infantry M2 extensively back in the 60's, and I can attest to the destructiveness of the round.

269GA-Veltro
10-25-2004, 08:22 AM
Yes...yes... .50 could destroy Tiger, Konigstiger, Panther, Carriers, Battle Ship ecc. ecc.....off course from 1km...at least.

No dispersion, no need a snap shoot, ecc. ecc.....and the american pilots were able to fire from 1 or 2 kilometers......as we can see in the movie.

Yes...yes...we know it.

Please...don't begin another time to stress Oleg with Star Wars and Luke Skywalker. Thank.

chris455
10-25-2004, 09:03 AM
Snacky, How much more destructive do you think the .50's should be?
And how do you know TIAPI (standard load sequence for US .50s) isn't modelled?
Mu Jug pulverizes Zeros with 1 second bursts, and even Ki-84s are pretty much doomed as well, even thought the visual effects usually aren't as dramatic.
What convergence do you use, and @ what range do you typically open fire?

BSS_Goat
10-25-2004, 10:45 AM
I kinda like the .50's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
10-25-2004, 11:00 AM
Lordy..not more whining about the .50s.

In PF, they chop the wing off a Zero with minute (that's minute, not 60s, kids http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) bursts pretty much as they do in AEP.

Cheers,
Norris

VW-IceFire
10-25-2004, 11:06 AM
Amazing gun camera footage...many incredible shots going on there. White strikes me is that the tracers seem very visible on the camera footage while not being as much on the game. But may be the cameras sensitivity to certain light spectrums too. Hard to say....you really see how quickly a perfectly good plane can go to pieces.

The one with the Hellcat zooming infront of the gun cameras plane and opening fire is also quite telling. Wow...

Obi_Kwiet
10-25-2004, 11:07 AM
Are the .50's pre 2.04 patch again. Doh! The whining! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Here we go again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MEGILE
10-25-2004, 12:37 PM
.50 cals @ convergence kick ar$e. Be sure!

VFA-195 Snacky
10-25-2004, 01:00 PM
I guess we can all sleep better at night now then.lol
I found the 80 rounds within a 3-6ft diameter pretty interesting, but if you guys are happy with it then so be it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Korolov
10-25-2004, 01:05 PM
Boy, none of the guys in that video could hit ****. They seemed to just mash the trigger and never let go. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Ok, I've posted it before, but here goes again:

P-47 .50 cals, PRE-AEP, nailing a 109 - Beware! Large gif!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/P-47%20Guncam%202.gif

VW-IceFire
10-25-2004, 01:09 PM
Good shooting Koro!

That was 1.21 wasn't it? I think thats when things were most right with the way the .50cal worked.

NegativeGee
10-25-2004, 01:12 PM
Yes I remember that .gif when you posted it before in the 0.50cal debates Korolov.

I think your point still stands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif