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View Full Version : OT: Need help translating CHESS problem (Yugoslavian?...rnzoli, cmirko, etc.)



SithSpeeder
04-18-2007, 04:31 PM
This chess problem has been bugging me. I found a reference on the net, but it's in a language I cannot even begin to guess.

Can anyone please translate the following?

Mat u dva poteza

U problemu br.201 sve je vec spremljeno u prividnoj igri. Naime na poteze 1....Sb4~,Tb3~,Se3~ slede matovi 2.Tc6,Dd8,Lc5#. Medjutim beli nema tempo potez i mora radikalno da promeni igri; ovo je primer kompletno izmenjene iznudice. Naime, na iste poteze crnog u resenju slede novi matovi, a postoji i tkz. crna korekcija gde se dva mata iz prividne igre prenose. Kvalitetan problem i lep za resavanje.

* _54th_Speeder *

Sjeler
04-18-2007, 05:00 PM
I'd really like to translate it for you but chess terminology and some words don't make sense so my translation won't help you much. On the other hand, it looks like semi-illiterate drunk wrote that so I'm looking forward for translation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
04-18-2007, 05:12 PM
What is that LOL? Do you have original link, if I could see the chess problem no.201 I could probably make something meaningfull, this way, it would sound very strange http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

anarchy52
04-18-2007, 05:39 PM
OK, here is my attempt, although I'm not familiar with chess jargon. Language is Serbian which is almost as similar to Croatian as British and American English are similar to each other.

Check-mate in two moves

In problem no.201 everything is apparently set in the game. After the moves 1....Sb4~,Tb3~,Se3~ check mates follow 2.Tc6,Dd8,Lc5#. However, white has no tempo move and has to radically change (perhaps missing:" approach to") the game; This is an example of completely changed "forced solution?" (probably chess jargon)
On the same moves by black in the solution new check-mates are following, and there is also the so called black correction where the two check-mates from the (apparent?illusory?ostensible?) game are carried over. Quality problem and nice for solving.

Perhaps I have used to much literal translation, but since I don't know much about chess...and it really does sound strange in both original and the translation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. As Sjeler already noted it's full of errors and strange use of words...

tigertalon
04-18-2007, 05:43 PM
anarchy beat me to it. Well done! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

anarchy52
04-18-2007, 05:46 PM
Thnx TT.

I had trouble understanding it in the original http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SithSpeeder
04-18-2007, 10:26 PM
Ok, I was hoping it would be obvious once I had the explanation. It still doesn't make sense to me. Where is the forced mate (assuming by white) in two?

(I hosted the pic on simace.com)
http://www.simace.com/_images/vukcevicchessproblem.gif

Here is the original PDF link...but it's a ways down in file (almost 3/4 of the way).
http://sah.paracin.co.yu/vukcevic.pdf

Originally, the problem was mis-represented as a reprint in my daughter's chess magazine (the black b5 pawn was MISSING!). I was able to find the PDF file (above) that properly showed the b5 pawn. But I still do NOT see a mate in 2.

* _54th_Speeder *

dieg777
04-18-2007, 11:17 PM
this is an if problem so

if black moves n on b4 then Rto c6 mates
if r on b3 moves then Q to d8 mates
if n on e3 moves then b to c5 mates

however white cannot gain a tempo - ( ie make black move to allow this ) to allow him mate in 2 by this method

e.g

1. k tp h2 will allow R to b2 with check
1. bf2 allows r to b1 check

hope this helps

SithSpeeder
04-18-2007, 11:48 PM
dieg777--

Thank you thank you thank you.

Now, I at least understand the intent of the problem. One last piece I left out was that the reprint in my daughter's chess magazine says "White to play and mate in 2" under the picture of the problem...which seems impossible (from my understanding--I can force the mate in 4 or 5 (depending) with White moving next, but not in 2).

* _54th_Speeder *

P.S. But "1. bf2 allows r to b1 check" I don't get...b(b1)xr and black is in a world of hurt. But I guess it does break the method.

cmirko
04-18-2007, 11:53 PM
nice to see community rally to help you Speeder http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S! all

dieg777
04-19-2007, 12:07 AM
np mate - the puzzle is designed to make you think of tempo. making a nothing move to force your opponent to make a move that worsens his position sometimes fatelly

e.g. if you add a white pawn to h6 then

1. h6 to h7 gains a tempo and all blacks moves are losing resulting in a mate in 2

your right with your ps in that nothing black can do will improve his position , it was only an illistration to show how black can make a forcing move that prevents the mate in 2


dont understand the origonal - cant see white forcing mate in 2 with or without pawn b5 but im a bit tired just now so might look at it later to see if I can crack it

S

delta

SithSpeeder
04-24-2007, 09:27 AM
SOLUTION:
Zugzwang for black! (Zugswang is a situation in which any move makes your position worse than if
you did not move at all. Zugswang is a method of winning many endgames and even some
middlegames. Gradually tying your opponent up increases your chances of creating
zugswang.)

White's move, mate in 2....

1. Nc3-d5

...and all counter moves by black give a different mate by white in the next move. A very interesting problem!

Unfortunately, I was not able to solve this myself and got help.

* _54th_Speeder *