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View Full Version : GR2 cancelled = Big patch cancelled?



RiesenSchnauzer
04-11-2005, 10:01 PM
This is purely speculation but given the fact that ubisoft just announced that GR2 for PC was cancelled after leading customers on for several months (most likely to avoid losing potential console version buyers who were "waiting" for the PC version) it would not surprise me entirely if the mega-patch never sees the light of day.

Let's face it. PF support is done and copies of PF are no longer selling. With little future financial incentive left ubi may be pulling the plug on this series just like they did with Lock On and Far Cry.

I suspect this points to a major shift in target audience but to whatever degree ubisoft suceeded as a niche game developer they are going to lose the core fans as they appeal more an more to console fans. Financially this may be a good move for them but it the gamble fails loyalty among the PC fans will be hard to find.

I don't mean to cause a stir but considering that the promised additional planes have been in the works since PF came out don't be shocked if there ultimately are no more add-ons for this series.

antifreeze
04-12-2005, 12:55 AM
But all the hard work for the patch has already been done and most of the time has already been spent, hasn't it? Wouldn't it be fairly silly to cancel something that is in the final testing stages?

vroelofs
04-12-2005, 01:12 AM
If they do that they can forget about BoB sales..but you are right i wouldn't be surprised either,unfortunally!

Thr0tt
04-12-2005, 01:17 AM
Usefull post. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

WOLFMondo
04-12-2005, 02:10 AM
I didn't think GR2 was ever scheduled to come out on PC.

Conspiracy nonsense. Patch will be out soon enough.

Gbucket
04-12-2005, 03:03 AM
GR2 and PF are made by different devteams in entirely different parts of the world, the add-on for PF has not been cancelled.

GR2 PC was cancelled as we didn't feel that the version getting made would do it justice in the time frame required.

TheGozr
04-12-2005, 03:12 AM
Better not to talk about UBI "savoir faire". But it's ok they have the frag dolls. UBI San-Francisco Office is a shame. Wanna know more PM me.

Badsight.
04-12-2005, 04:30 AM
wow , UBI actually watches these threads

must make them laugh how loads , including myself , get into this game so bad

RiesenSchnauzer
04-12-2005, 04:45 AM
Ubirazz,
I mean no disrespect to you personally but the time frame you speak of is beating GR3, which will inevitably be a priority for console once again even if it does have a PC version, so the truth is I don't trust ubisoft's motives beyond the bottom line.

This is not to say that I have an immature expectation either. I think a company has to make hard money decisions and frankly the GR series has probably made much more money in the short term by being turned into a console franchise.

It may just be that putting a lot of support behind a niche market PC game is no longer financially feasible for ubisoft. I just hope the company isn't going for the quick buck at the expense of long term business though.

Spider_439th
04-12-2005, 07:17 AM
It is simple to deduct why GR2 don't hit the shelf for PC, just look at somes games of the same genre that will be on the market this fall and you will understand that Ubi don't want to take that risk. Just look at Red Orchestra a simple UT2004 mod that beat a lot of FPS , and this is a FREE MOD.
I may be wrong but from what i see GR2 was not good enough to be sell for PC.
But wait for GR3! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaws43
04-12-2005, 07:18 AM
My advise would be€¦. don't speculate. Oleg has done more good to WW2 flight sims then any other. If UBI decided to cancel the patch I€m sure Oleg/Maddox/1C will bring the patch out. To threaten not to buy BOB is not fair. Don€t blame Oleg for the behaviour of UBI. B.t.w. I will buy BOB anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Huckebein_UK
04-12-2005, 07:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Antifreeze:
But all the hard work for the patch has already been done and most of the time has already been spent, hasn't it? Wouldn't it be fairly silly to cancel something that is in the final testing stages? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit OT, but they wouldn't be the first ones...

http://www.pilotfriend.com/general_interest/potty%20aircraft/TSR2.htm

Sorry, but your post reminded me of this. : http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Surely the most monumental c**kup in aviation history, and part of the systematic screwing up of a national industry at the very peak of it's profession. Makes me ashamed to be British... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif When I think of some of the sub-standard aircraft that have seen extensive service (F104 Starfighter, F-111) in the place of other projects cancelled by meddling politicians who should have been incarcerated at birth (Supersonic Hunter, TSR.2) it almost makes me cry.

But yeah, I was thinking a similar thing to RiesenSchnauzer - I'm not going to be surprised if the plug is pulled, just like 'at. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
I'm reluctant to criticise Oleg though - this game is his brainchild, and his passion; I'm sure he does his very best for it, and us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
04-12-2005, 07:31 AM
Chicken Little...... part deux.... thats all this is. No offense intended. The sky is not falling. As far as the core IL2 audience... they have been around long before you discovered this sim and they will be here long after you have moved on to more exciting things. Yes sales of PF may have fallen off but first off dont think that if a Forgotten Battles PLATINUM pack with FB,AEP and PF all in the PF style case packaging (After all the case will hold all 5 CDs) that there would not be a bump in sales, and consider that since flight sims in general are a niche market anyway.. most of the people who are likely to buy PF in the first lace already have it. Out of the 30+ copies of PF that I personally sold at the local retail store where I work PT just about all of them had a copy of FB GOLD and a joystick sold with them.. some even had video cards and ram sold with them. If the GOLD pack was not available at my store I redirected them to Comp USA where they could get it there. Several of the new members here are some of those very customers.

Until I hear from an official source that support for this franchise is "done" I will keep on looking for updates.... free or otherwise. Frankly they would be crazy NOT to keep updating the product since there is already a rabid core of fans who would jump on any upgrade. If they could distribute it online and cut out the processing costs then that would even make it more profitable to them and us. Those newcomers who are so disapointed with PF and they "arent interested" in other theaters are only shortchanging themselves anyway, and are suffering from a gamer's mentality. The die hard simmers are the ones who are waiting for this upgrade, looking forward to BoB, and any add on paid or otherwise down the pike, and flying what is readily available to them every day either offline or online, and they are the ones that have always been the core of the flight sim business and this simn in particular.

Keep in mind that IL2 did pretty well... and that was when it was "just an Eastern Front" sim.. that a lot of narrowminded individuals who have come to see the light, wouldnt give the time of day. There are more 1C customers today than there were 3 years ago.... by far. All this is just my opinion of course but I think that there is nothing to fear.

Philipscdrw
04-12-2005, 07:59 AM
Also, releasing the 4.0 patch will give 1C vital 'public beta' testing for the BoB flight dynamics engine.

I'm still a bit hacked off that the Betty was advertised on the box in November, but won't be available until the rest of 4.0 is complete - I'm really excited by the 4.0 patch, but I don't understand why the Betty couldn't be released seperately, in November...

ruf9ii
04-12-2005, 08:05 AM
off topic i guess, but man i HATE console games. they should stick to the platform and racing genre, and thats it. and even with a wheel a PC beats down on a console.

any body seen the 'sim' ace combat series? totally **** joke rubbish... and if ur playing a first person shooter, how can u aim? its like playing PF and trying to make accurate defelection shots with ur arrow keys on the keyboard...

take ur best console shooter player and match him against a good PC shooter player and the PC guy will win hands down (respective machines of course)...

my rant is done... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

EnGaurde
04-12-2005, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> copies of PF are no longer selling <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what a remarkable assumption. Travel the world do you? so you know how its selling in Sydney? New York? Moscow? Helsinki? You assume theyre not selling.

you truly, have no idea how its selling.

you are also quite quick to predict its doom, and write off the patch however late it is. These points alone, make me smile a certain kind of smile at your attitudes displayed by your comments. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

in my little chunk of the world, they still occupy a prominent position, they still demand full price. And the bargain bins are full, believe me. I played dumb and asked the sales guy at EB what this was like and he said that its the sim for serious plane fans, not that it was good but incomplete or any such warning.

yes he wanted a sale, but he'd also probably like repeat customers so i doubt he'd risk a cheap shot or god forbid clearly have no idea what he was talking about.

i still find it quite funny that a large percentage of the original IL2 people still play the sim, so it will have a following in many countries indeed.

PF will always be the most accurate and overall better sim for the masses. even if that to some simply due to the fact its not made by micro$oft.

i suspect many, many game developers painfully wish had produced the failure that was PF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Capt._Tenneal
04-12-2005, 08:26 AM
The 4.0 patch or add-on was supposed to be free and a downloadable file to begin with (unlike GR2 which was obviusly payware and will be a retail product). So even if Ubi says no, what is to stop Oleg from releasing the patch himself at 3DGamers or other sites. The patch was never meant to be boxed in CD form.

Aeronautico
04-12-2005, 08:30 AM
I would REALLY like to know where it is (un)officially said that PF sold less than AEP that sold less than FB that sold less than IL-2.

Really.

Gog..
04-12-2005, 08:31 AM
Ok, just to back up old mates comments above, no, they are not selling in Australia.

And as for Bearcat and his store selling 30 of the things, well that must be a huuuuuuge store because I have never seen a store here have any more than 2 copies on the shelf (most of the time they don't have the game at all) and this was at the time of release!
The store attendants didn't even know what the game was when I went in asking for it so i doubt that it had been selling like hot cakes....ever!

EJGr.Ost_chamel
04-12-2005, 08:32 AM
What the hell is "GR2" and what planes are flyable in this game? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Greetz
Chamel

Vigilanty
04-12-2005, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
When I think of some of the sub-standard aircraft that have seen extensive service (F104 Starfighter) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't call my Starfighter "substandard," you Eeenglish pig-dog! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Sharkey888
04-12-2005, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
PF will always be the most accurate and overall better sim for the masses. even if that to some simply due to the fact its not made by micro$oft.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you mean IL2-AEP. PF was a half baked failure to try and get the lucrative US market. If you just started getting into IL2 with PF you were disappointed for sure. But as an add-on to IL2 it was just more goodness!

As for the patch, UBI probably did not want any more patches. But quick thinking Oleg sold the new BOB Beta FM story-so they allowed it.

gbleck
04-12-2005, 09:09 AM
Sounds like Gost Recon 2 for pc just didn't get polished to the same level of stability and quality as the console versions. I'd say they just droped it because it would likely be finished around the same time GR3 was coming out. Looks like GR3 will be releasing or attempting a relase on both platforms.

Huckebein_UK
04-12-2005, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vigilanty:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
When I think of some of the sub-standard aircraft that have seen extensive service (F104 Starfighter) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't call my Starfighter "substandard," you Eeenglish pig-dog! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was a death-trap! Sure, it was fast, but nothing special, Vig - you know that, you American Person, you! You want a real opinion? Ask any one of the dozens of young German airmen who died in accidents when it entered service over there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now the Hunter? I've never heard a bad word said about that plane, not even from the greenest greehorn of newbie RAf pilots.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif American http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

EnGaurde
04-12-2005, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, just to back up old mates comments above, no, they are not selling in Australia <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*shakes head in disbelief.*

how you people so casually, nonchalantly know this is beyond my understanding.

got all the market data eh?

got all the trends of software sales for all the big chains as well as the little guys lately?

able to cross reference accurate sales numbers in various parts of all the states and territories of Aus for established software titles, and compare that rate to PF?

or is it just a big statement..... naked, unqualified subjective opinion...... with no credible, researched information.... and a massive hit of the End Of The World Is Nigh attitude.....

what id bet it stems from, is your chronically myopic view of the world every has but still perceives as all knowing, mixed with a healthy pessimistic view of PF topped off by the human races neverending capacity for finding joy in something demise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

you dont know how its selling. You just dont. None of you do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

noone knows, save for the importer.

its amazing how entire threads can build up over the most stupidly baseless bullsh!te claims made by armchair experts. Self supporting hysteria.

On and On.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Vigilanty
04-12-2005, 09:20 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifGreat to bicker with you again, Huck! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Huckebein_UK
04-12-2005, 09:25 AM
Lol, yeah - I've missed humiliating you and ridiculing your theories on public forums... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We should probably give whatsisface back his thread now though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If I can find the new il2skins forum I'll catch y'over there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

vroelofs
04-12-2005, 09:31 AM
This is a ****ing lie!
Console based is hot at the moment so it generates more money,that's all!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This decision was not an easy one. We did not want to disappoint the loyal Ghost Recon fans, but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3. Taking into account their close release dates, and the fact that we felt the third opus would be a much more satisfying and evolved gaming experience, we were forced to conclude that it was in the interest of gamers for us to cancel the PC version of Ghost Recon 2. But Ghost Recon 3 on PC will hit shelves the fourth quarter of 2005, so the wait won€t be long, and will definitely be worth it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Capt._Tenneal
04-12-2005, 09:39 AM
Just take a look at Brothers In Arms. Released on consoles first, the PC version is almost as a "throw me a bone here" consolation prize for the PC fans, and is a straight port of the console game. It would seem that console rulez (!) now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Dexmeister
04-12-2005, 09:56 AM
As a guy who's got his PC tweaked to the t!ts to run all kinds of sims, shooters and other stuff, I've got to pipe in here in support of consoles.

I got tired of all the various tweaking needed on a per-game basis, and finally caved in and got an XBox. Now, I can keep my PC rig all tweaked for simming, and don't need to rejig it every time a new shooter comes out. It's GREAT to have a stable box intended for work, IL2 and FS2004. The XBox is for a pile of other stuff.

For those of you that raise your noses at consoles, you're missing something good. Pop a CD in, watch the intro video as it loads, and GO GO GO! No tweaking required, no patches needed (most of the time), and the games run great.

Ghost Recon (original) was incredible for the PC. Ghost Recon 2 on XBOX, while different, is fantastic! Piles of realism, very challenging, and guess what, UBI doesn't need to handhold all the gamers that can't get their fricken Antialiasing set right, that get CTDs because they refuse to upgrade from WinME or Win98. It's just a better deal all around for devs and gamers alike.

Flight sims belong on a PC, don't get me wrong, but for many other games (ie. Splinter Cell, Band of Brothers, even Forza Racing), the console is just great. No tweaking, supports HDTV standards and Dolby 5.1 Surround, and doesn't require you to download 41.3926a NVidia drivers (or was it 72.21183?) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry, but I don't blame UBI for not wanting to waste a lot of time porting GR2 to the PC from the console version. The console is way more cost effective for them.

If you disagree, consider all the time and effort Oleg & crew are spending making the 4.0 patch. Then consider how much of the testing they do is to make sure the sim is stable on Winxp, Win2k, with Nvidia, ATI, Matrox drivers, with low RAM, with high RAM, with HT'ing, 64-bit processors, AMD vs Intel, etc etc. It's a headache, and one that many games just aren't worthy of the efforts to comply.

I would pick my PC over XBox for gaming overall, but I totally understand why some PC games get dropped after a while. It's a pain in the *** to continually support them.

MiamiEagle
04-12-2005, 10:01 AM
Guys you do not need to worry to much. Even though nothing shocks me this days, cancelling Patch 4.0 would be a bad business mistake of the first category.

Oleg is a business man and he knows a bad business desicion when he sees one. Cancelling the Patch could hurt his business and he knows it.

You never take your cusumers for granted or it could end up biting you know where.

Just look at Baseball. It used to be Americas number one Sport. They took their comsummer for granted and they almost went out of business with their strikes.

Rule number one in business is never take your consummers for granted. You treat them with respect and they will come back.

A lot of the reasons we buy his products is out of trust that he will complete what he promises.

The reason Pacific Fighter is not selling is that it is a very incomplete game. Had it had been more inmmersing and completed, it would still be selling I guaratee it.

Heck CFS2 is still selling and your are going to be telling me Pacific Fighter would not be selling as well. That is ridiculous.

Miamieagle

Sharkey888
04-12-2005, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
you dont know how its selling. You just dont. None of you do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you could tell by the plug being pulled from PF and all the time being taken to get the patch out.

WOLFMondo
04-12-2005, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gog..:
And as for Bearcat and his store selling 30 of the things, well that must be a huuuuuuge store because I have never seen a store here have any more than 2 copies on the shelf (most of the time they don't have the game at all) and this was at the time of release! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Virgin Megastore, Brighton, at least 10 copies, opposite there is HMV had a few copies, below those stores is Game, they have copies, gold editions toohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Went in all 3 the other day to pick up UT2K4 so I could play RO.

vidok.k
04-12-2005, 10:37 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif GR2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

VW-IceFire
04-12-2005, 10:37 AM
Sorry whats the link? I see no correlation between Ghost Recon 2 (a shame that they never picked up the ball and did a PC version) and this game.

Its Oleg's business on the patch. He's not UbiSoft...they publish his games but as far as I know...Maddox Games are not a studio of Ubisoft the way that Redstorm is.

441Spyder
04-12-2005, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Antifreeze:
But all the hard work for the patch has already been done and most of the time has already been spent, hasn't it? Wouldn't it be fairly silly to cancel something that is in the final testing stages? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit OT, but they wouldn't be the first ones...

http://www.pilotfriend.com/general_interest/potty%20aircraft/TSR2.htm

Sorry, but your post reminded me of this. : http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Surely the most monumental c**kup in aviation history, and part of the systematic screwing up of a national industry at the very peak of it's profession. Makes me ashamed to be British... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif When I think of some of the sub-standard aircraft that have seen extensive service (F104 Starfighter, F-111) in the place of other projects cancelled by meddling politicians who should have been incarcerated at birth (Supersonic Hunter, TSR.2) it almost makes me cry.

But yeah, I was thinking a similar thing to RiesenSchnauzer - I'm not going to be surprised if the plug is pulled, just like 'at. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
I'm reluctant to criticise Oleg though - this game is his brainchild, and his passion; I'm sure he does his very best for it, and us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahh ok after reading your link on the TSR2 i have to say you have there a british version of the AVRO ARROW

RiesenSchnauzer
04-12-2005, 10:40 AM
There is a middle ground between rabid fan boy and endlessly whiny consumer. I am not really complaining about FB-AEP but I do think the way things have gone with PF, Lock On and other ubisoft games points to a major paradigm shift in the company away from the PC sim.

If a person two months ago speculated that there would be no GR2 for the PC despite all the indications from ubisoft to the contrary he would have turned out to be right.

darkhorizon11
04-12-2005, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiesenSchnauzer:
This is purely speculation but given the fact that ubisoft just announced that GR2 for PC was cancelled after leading customers on for several months (most likely to avoid losing potential console version buyers who were "waiting" for the PC version) it would not surprise me entirely if the mega-patch never sees the light of day.

Let's face it. PF support is done and copies of PF are no longer selling. With little future financial incentive left ubi may be pulling the plug on this series just like they did with Lock On and Far Cry.

I suspect this points to a major shift in target audience but to whatever degree ubisoft suceeded as a niche game developer they are going to lose the core fans as they appeal more an more to console fans. Financially this may be a good move for them but it the gamble fails loyalty among the PC fans will be hard to find.

I don't mean to cause a stir but considering that the promised additional planes have been in the works since PF came out don't be shocked if there ultimately are no more add-ons for this series. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just got served! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Capt._Tenneal
04-12-2005, 10:59 AM
I won't get too excited about any announcement for the PC GR3 anymore. Now I'll only believe that the GR3 PC version exists if I hold it in my grubby little hands. Until then, it's all just vaporware. I was punk'd today, but not anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

VW-IceFire
04-12-2005, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiesenSchnauzer:
There is a middle ground between rabid fan boy and endlessly whiny consumer. I am not really complaining about FB-AEP but I do think the way things have gone with PF, Lock On and other ubisoft games points to a major paradigm shift in the company away from the PC sim.

If a person two months ago speculated that there would be no GR2 for the PC despite all the indications from ubisoft to the contrary he would have turned out to be right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fortunately for us we've got two things:
1) Flight sims don't translate to consoles very well or at all
2) Oleg operates semi-independantly of the publisher...he actually has TWO publishers (UBI worldwide and 1C in the CIS). So if he's still selling PF in Russia or in the other CIS countries or in other areas of Europe then thats still very crucial and important. Nevermind this North American centric stuff that we get from big companies like EA who focus on North America and the rest of the world as an afterthought.

Its a different paradigm to examine so we can't just say that its shifted universally when the paradigm itself is different. Case in point: There's a new Russian addon with aircraft like the Pe-2 and other goodies due out sometime soon. So the enhancements to the FB+AEP+PF+Whatever lineup are not all lost either.

Are we immune to shifting winds...no...we're screwed if Ubi doesn't publish any more flight sims...but I'll borderline on fanboy and say we've got something a little different here that cannot be equiated to the same influences that influence other games. Ones that are esspecially more mainstream. In the case of GR2 for PC...they now say that there will be a GR3 for PC instead because the release dates are so similar. Was the game really cancelled or did they just change the title? We don't know the full story.

Sharkey888
04-12-2005, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiesenSchnauzer:
I am not really complaining about FB-AEP but I do think the way things have gone with PF, Lock On and other ubisoft games points to a major paradigm shift in the company away from the PC sim.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember EA buying 20% of UBI stock?! Ubi has to stay very profitable if it wants to stay independant and keep the BORG away!!

ThreeCrow
04-12-2005, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vigilanty:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
When I think of some of the sub-standard aircraft that have seen extensive service (F104 Starfighter) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't call my Starfighter "substandard," you Eeenglish pig-dog! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Starfighter was good for its time.... but compared to the politically killed Avro Arrow it was not much contest. I don't know much about the TSR.

When the bean counters over rule the designers in ANY endeavor (even PC flight sims).... not much good can come from it.

Cheers

Metallicaner
04-12-2005, 11:44 AM
can anyone pls tell me what GR2 is? :P lol

Dexmeister
04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
GR2 = Gimps with Ropes, version deux.

Metallicaner
04-12-2005, 12:21 PM
aha sure

SaQSoN
04-12-2005, 12:48 PM
What a stupid speculations, particulary taking in account the way, how hard guys are working at Moscow right now! Do you really think, making an addon (and the 4.0 IS an addon by ammount of the various new stuff in it) takes just one tap on a key?

Any work requires time and efforts, if one wants it to be done well.

ThreeCrow
04-12-2005, 07:15 PM
Bottom line.... when it really mattered in the sixties, neither the Starfighter nor the Avro Arrow really would have made an impact. The need at that time was for a good close ground support weapons platform..... some ground pounders called them "Sandies"... we in the Navy called them "Spads". Old design.

Can any guess? Is easy one.

Eraser_tr
04-12-2005, 07:25 PM
Just a little message to the UBI people: don't be bean counters like EA and simply go for the bottom line. Allow developers to make full quality games. When something is done right(see games like half life, or the original il2) it will be far more profitable in the long run than shoveling out console and valueware **** as fast and cheaply as possible.

Focus on quality->better games->better sales

Slick750
04-12-2005, 07:43 PM
I'm sure the patch will come out...I think they cancelled GR2 for PC because they figured out that a game intended for consoles is **** on a PC (Halo for example)...GR3 comming out soon, for PC.

JunkoIfurita
04-12-2005, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>how hard guys are working at Moscow right now! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg & Co are based outta Moscow? Nice...I'm heading there soon. Better not give me the address of the offices, or the whole dev team will have to deal with a busload of rabid flight sim fanboys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

@Gog: At Brissie CBD EB, one week 30 copies on the shelf...the next 5, the next 30 again. Either they're moving PF or the EB lads are playing a major shelf-space musical chairs. BTW all Aussies, Lock-on and the Gold Pack are both in EB's '2 for $50' sale at the moment. Need an extra copy?

----

Recon_609IAP
04-12-2005, 09:03 PM
EnGaurde - nice one, sounds like 90% of the posts on ths forum fall into that category.


XBox user - I can't do console fps cause I grew up with a keyboard and mouse and the console controls are horrible to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, I figure Console FPS players must be under 15 years old?

LEXX_Luthor
04-12-2005, 09:18 PM
Interesting TSR~2 read Huckebein, thanks.

So they had to buy F~111 after GR2 was cancelled? Or is this thread confusing me?

Dexmeister
04-12-2005, 10:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
XBox user - I can't do console fps cause I grew up with a keyboard and mouse and the console controls are horrible to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, I figure Console FPS players must be under 15 years old? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, used to play driving games when they only needed the four arrow keys, graphical fishing games in DOS. My entire career of 15+ years in computers, I eventually wanted something I could pop a game into and go. NHL2005 multiplayer on a projector screen with some beers & friends? Can't do that on a keyboard, at least not without holding a LAN party. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ThreeCrow
04-12-2005, 10:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Metallicaner:
can anyone pls tell me what GR2 is? :P lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ghost Recon is what I figure.

Sometimes hard to gey straight response here,

Dexmeister
04-12-2005, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThreeCrow:
Sometimes hard to gey straight response here, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Huckebein_UK
04-13-2005, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 441Spyder:
ahh ok after reading your link on the TSR2 i have to say you have there a british version of the AVRO ARROW <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, unfortunately this sort of idiocy seems pretty widespread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Krt_Bong
04-13-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiesenSchnauzer:
This is purely speculation but given the fact that ubisoft just announced that GR2 for PC was cancelled after leading customers on for several months (most likely to avoid losing potential console version buyers who were "waiting" for the PC version) it would not surprise me entirely if the mega-patch never sees the light of day.

Let's face it. PF support is done and copies of PF are no longer selling. With little future financial incentive left ubi may be pulling the plug on this series just like they did with Lock On and Far Cry.

I suspect this points to a major shift in target audience but to whatever degree ubisoft suceeded as a niche game developer they are going to lose the core fans as they appeal more an more to console fans. Financially this may be a good move for them but it the gamble fails loyalty among the PC fans will be hard to find.

I don't mean to cause a stir but considering that the promised additional planes have been in the works since PF came out don't be shocked if there ultimately are no more add-ons for this series. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If you read the forums and news blogs at various websites you can come up with various schools of thought on the same subject Ghost Recon 3 is scheduled for release the 3rd or 4th Quarter of 2005 so the release of GR2 for PC which was a console title to begin with was cancelled so that GR3 would better meet the expectations of the PC consumer, a little further reading on the subject could have told you that but go right ahead and spread foundless rumors to the masses because you put 2 and 2 together and came up with 3. Lets be reasonable why should One game have any effect on the other games produced in any given period, huh? I'm so tired of the **** that is printed on this forum that has little to no basis in fact and the hordes of gullible folks who buy into it hook line and sinker OMG get a life

Krt_Bong
04-13-2005, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThreeCrow:
Bottom line.... when it really mattered in the sixties, neither the Starfighter nor the Avro Arrow really would have made an impact. The need at that time was for a good close ground support weapons platform..... some ground pounders called them "Sandies"... we in the Navy called them "Spads". Old design.

Can any guess? Is easy one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WTF does any of this have to do with the big patch?

Krt_Bong
04-13-2005, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, just to back up old mates comments above, no, they are not selling in Australia <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*shakes head in disbelief.*

how you people so casually, nonchalantly _know _ this is beyond my understanding.

got all the market data eh?

got all the trends of software sales for all the big chains as well as the little guys lately?

able to cross reference accurate sales numbers in various parts of all the states and territories of Aus for established software titles, and compare that rate to PF?

or is it just a big statement..... naked, unqualified subjective opinion...... with no credible, researched information.... and a massive hit of the End Of The World Is Nigh attitude.....

what id bet it stems from, is your chronically myopic view of the world every has but still perceives as all knowing, mixed with a healthy pessimistic view of PF topped off by the human races neverending capacity for finding joy in something demise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

you dont know how its selling. You just dont. None of you do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

noone knows, save for the importer.

its amazing how entire threads can build up over the most stupidly baseless bullsh!te claims made by armchair experts. Self supporting hysteria.

On and On.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BUMP

Weather_Man
04-13-2005, 09:47 AM
The leap of logic some of you people make is extradinarily mind-boggling. What is the correlation of GR2 to the PF patch? Hmmm? There is none and simply because you can imagine one does not make one exist.

I think some of you assume Oleg gets paid for the free patches. I don't think he does. He patches/upgrades to make his game better and more desirable. Which, in turn, may sell more copies and keep the consumers happy. UBI has no incentive to cancel a patch they have no investment in. It's idiocy to think they are even entertaining the idea. They would cancel a nearly complete free upgrade why, exactly?

And what is this business that UBI dropped PF? Since when was there ever going to be additional addons to Il2 or PF promised by UBI? We have known well over a year PF would be the last installment of the Il2 engine before BoB takes over. Nothing was ever dropped. What is taking place is an evolution.

ThreeCrow
04-13-2005, 11:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThreeCrow:
Bottom line.... when it really mattered in the sixties, neither the Starfighter nor the Avro Arrow really would have made an impact. The need at that time was for a good close ground support weapons platform..... some ground pounders called them "Sandies"... we in the Navy called them "Spads". Old design.

Can any guess? Is easy one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WTF does any of this have to do with the big patch? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh goody... another self annointed Mod and guardian of decorum.

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2005, 11:28 AM
Bong:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>WTF does any of this have to do with the big patch? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
F~104 Cockpit(tm) will not be included in Big Patch ... (Lockheed)

Vigilanty
04-13-2005, 12:57 PM
Nor, unfortunately, will be the previously-discussed Spitfire made from a wood:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/vigilantefromvenus/wooden_spitfire.jpg

I was really looking forward to that one, too.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif