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woofiedog
06-14-2007, 11:02 PM
Found this article about the Soviet use of the Mig-15 in Korea written from recently declassified documents in Russia... also has some Great photos to go along with it.

Link: http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/migs_in_local_conflicts_part_i.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-038-f86-ivanov.jpg
Maj. Asla's F-86E in the gun sight of a MiG-15bis piloted by Capt. Nikolay Ivanov.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-035-f86-asla.jpg
The tail section of Maj. Asla's F-86E downed by Capt. Ivanov on Aug. 1, 1952.

woofiedog
06-14-2007, 11:12 PM
Also one more story...

The RB-29's of the 91st Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron in the Korean War.

Link: http://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/Combat_Mission-ridealon...ion-ridealong01.html (http://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/Combat_Mission-ridealong/Combat_Mission-ridealong01.html)

http://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/Combat_Mission-ridealong/images/TIGER-LIL_sm.jpg

leitmotiv
06-15-2007, 12:08 AM
Many thanks, WD.

Skarphol
06-15-2007, 02:27 AM
Nice reading, thanks a lot!

I see that the russians claim 650 F-86 Sabres shot down for the loss of 335 MiG-15s. The losses of those 335 MiG-15s seems to be to all sorts of reasons, not only shot down by Sabres.

How does this compare to USAF figures?
On http://www.korean-war.com/ it is claimed that the US/UN shot down 893 enemy aircraft, but does not mention what type of planes that shot down what type of plane.

Anybody who knows the figures?

Skarphol

JG53Frankyboy
06-15-2007, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Skarphol:
Nice reading, thanks a lot!

I see that the russians claim 650 F-86 Sabres shot down for the loss of 335 MiG-15s. The losses of those 335 MiG-15s seems to be to all sorts of reasons, not only shot down by Sabres.

How does this compare to USAF figures?
On http://www.korean-war.com/ it is claimed that the US/UN shot down 893 enemy aircraft, but does not mention what type of planes that shot down what type of plane.

Anybody who knows the figures?

Skarphol

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/402...931068955#7931068955 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4021058955?r=7931068955#7931068955)

Skarphol
06-15-2007, 04:04 AM
Thanks Frankyboy, but 13 pages.. phew! Can't scroll through that here at work. Has allreayde read the MiG-15 article on my employers time! I'll check on it later.

Skarphol

berg417448
06-15-2007, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Skarphol:
Nice reading, thanks a lot!

I see that the russians claim 650 F-86 Sabres shot down for the loss of 335 MiG-15s. The losses of those 335 MiG-15s seems to be to all sorts of reasons, not only shot down by Sabres.

How does this compare to USAF figures?
On http://www.korean-war.com/ it is claimed that the US/UN shot down 893 enemy aircraft, but does not mention what type of planes that shot down what type of plane.

Anybody who knows the figures?

Skarphol

This subject has been posted before and IIRC there were only about 600 Sabres in total cycled through that theater during the entire war period... So it is a simple case of the usual overclaims which happen on all sides in a war.

IIRC the "official" combat loss figures for Sabres is around 100 aircraft or so. Skychimp made some detailed posts in the past on this subject.

woofiedog
06-15-2007, 01:04 PM
I found the article interesting from the fact that it's is talking openly about the Russian aircrews during the conflict. As show in one of the photo's... the ground servicing the Mig is obvious Russian.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-036-mig-15bis.jpg
The MiG-15bis fighter of the 351st Fighter Aviation Regiment. Andun airbase, North Korea, fall of 1952.

The article also shows a Very rare look at the battle damaged returning Mig's.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-026-mig-15bis-1315325.jpg
The MiG-15bis, s/n: 1315325 piloted by Pepelyaev and damaged in combat on Oct. 6, 1951.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-039-mig-15-gogolyev.jpg
MiG-15, s/n: 111025, of 1st Lt. A.P. Gogolyev of the 2nd Aviation Squadron.


As far as loses of Allied aircraft... FEAF/UN Aircraft Used in Korea and Losses by Type: http://www.korean-war.com/AirWar/AircraftType-LossList.html

Sabre, USAF
F-86A, F-86E, F-86F-1/10/30, F-86F-2, RF-86A
Loses... 271 fighter/FB, 4 reconnaissance

There is also more to the article... but I can't read Russian.

Link... the original article in Russian and more photos and articles can be found at the: http://www.airforce.ru/

stalkervision
06-15-2007, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
I found the article interesting from the fact that it's is talking openly about the Russian aircrews during the conflict. As show in one of the photo's... the ground servicing the Mig is obvious Russian.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-036-mig-15bis.jpg
The MiG-15bis fighter of the 351st Fighter Aviation Regiment. Andun airbase, North Korea, fall of 1952.

The article also shows a Very rare look at the battle damaged returning Mig's.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-026-mig-15bis-1315325.jpg
The MiG-15bis, s/n: 1315325 piloted by Pepelyaev and damaged in combat on Oct. 6, 1951.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/korean-war-039-mig-15-gogolyev.jpg
MiG-15, s/n: 111025, of 1st Lt. A.P. Gogolyev of the 2nd Aviation Squadron.


As far as loses of Allied aircraft... FEAF/UN Aircraft Used in Korea and Losses by Type: http://www.korean-war.com/AirWar/AircraftType-LossList.html

Sabre, USAF
F-86A, F-86E, F-86F-1/10/30, F-86F-2, RF-86A
Loses... 271 fighter/FB, 4 reconnaissance

There is also more to the article... but I can't read Russian.

Link... the original article in Russian and more photos and articles can be found at the: http://www.airforce.ru/


thanks for the info. I like the mig 15 and have flown it a lot in "Mig Alley" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

woofiedog
06-15-2007, 01:30 PM
stalkervision... You might want to give Wov/WoE a try. I like the Panther... harder to get a kill. But a Great ride in Wov/WoE.

A few screen shots of a Mig-15 and Mig-15bis...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00048.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00096.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00101.jpg

ploughman
06-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Thanks Woofie for the post. Fascinating detail on the Korean air war. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

stalkervision
06-15-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
stalkervision... You might want to give Wov/WoE a try. I like the Panther... harder to get a kill. But a Great ride in Wov/WoE.

A few screen shots of a Mig-15 and Mig-15bis...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00048.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00096.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/img00101.jpg


cool pics! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Got the game but I haven't loaded a panther jet on it yet.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Looks like a lot of fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

I primarily fly the mig 21 in it..

woofiedog
06-15-2007, 01:54 PM
Here is a link for the Panther done by Guest... : http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?automodule=downloa...bmitted&num=10&st=90 (http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?automodule=downloads&showcat=72&sort_by=DESC&sort_key=file_submitted&num=10&st=90)

stalkervision
06-15-2007, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
Here is a link for the Panther done by Guest... : http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?automodule=downloa...bmitted&num=10&st=90 (http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?automodule=downloads&showcat=72&sort_by=DESC&sort_key=file_submitted&num=10&st=90)

Thanks a lot buddy I will load it up and give it a try.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif As soon as I get my ati video card back from Canada.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

woofiedog
06-15-2007, 11:03 PM
stalkervision... Hope you get it back soon! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Carrier, carrier-based squadrons and non-carrier-based squadron deployments during the Korean War.

Link: http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/koreaob.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g420000/g428267.jpg

Badsight-
06-15-2007, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Skarphol:
Thanks Frankyboy, but 13 pages.. phew! Can't scroll through that here at work it was 4.5 - 1 (roughly) for "all Saber v all Migs"

wasnt just ami's in the Sabers & it wasnt just russians in the Migs

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 01:08 AM
The Sabre's combat record in Korea was, by any standards, impressive. Of the 900 aerial victories claimed by USAF pilots during the war, 792 were MiG-15s shot down by Sabres. The MiGs in their turn managed to knock down only 78 Sabres. American fighter pilots thus established a ten-to-one kill/loss ration in their favor.

Documented postwar research indicates there were actually only about 379 US victories. The Soviets claimed to have shot down more than 650 Sabres, while USAF records show 224 F-86s lost to all causes, including non-combat.

WTE_Ibis
06-16-2007, 02:42 AM
Nice find Woofie
When we finally get it I hope it's nice flyer.
One of my favourites.

Here's a couple more photos
Sorry they are a little large.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ibissix//Mig15a.jpg
http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ibissix//Mig15b.JPG

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 02:51 AM
WTE_Ibis... Look's like a monster coming out of the dark! LoL

Mint photos... Thank's

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 03:00 AM
Some early Allied claims in Korea and also a Panther Jet story...

Link Air Force Aircraft of the Korean War: http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2000/0700korea.asp

When the pilots of CVG-102 manned their aircraft on the morning of November 18, they did not have the slightest inkling that this day would be significantly different than the prior days of this deployment. VF-781 was to fly the afternoon Combat Air Patrol over the Task Force. Normally, this is a routine operation that was almost always uneventful. Eight of the squadron's new and improved F9F-5 Panthers took up their patrol split into two divisions of four aircraft. Shortly after 13:40 PM, Oriskany's Combat Information Center reported unidentified aircraft flying on a heading that would take them directly over the Task Force. Their range was 83 miles, at 345 degrees and closing rapidly. Oddly, these aircraft were not coming in from Korea. Their reciprocal course indicated that they had just taken off from the immediate vicinity of Vladivostok. These were Soviet aircraft. Lt. Claire Elwood's division of four Panthers was closest to the Russian bogies, and Elwood was ordered to take his aircraft and intercept the incoming Soviets.

Link Panther Jet In Korea: http://home.att.net/~historyworld/VF-781.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ehistoryworld/VF-781.html)

http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2000/0700korea3.jpg

Korean War
Headquarters Far East Air Forces (HQ FEAF), the organization responsible for awarding victory credits during the Korean Conflict, required proof of the destruction of enemy aircraft before issuing general orders to confirm claims. This proof usually consisted of witness statements, gun camera film, or the sighting of aircraft wreckage.... Following the policy used for apportioning victory credits in World War II, FEAF divided into fractions each credit awarded to more than one flyer. For example, if two fighter pilots shot down the same airplane, each received a half credit. Korean victory credits were never divided between more than two men.

Name
Unit
Kills
Enemy
Aircraft
Date

1st Lt. Robert H. Dewald 35 FS
1
IL-10
F-80
June 27, 1950

1st Lt. William G. Hudson 68 FS
1
Yak-11
F-82
June 27, 1950

Maj. James W. Little 339 FS
1
La-7
F-82
June 27, 1950

1st Lt. Charles B. Moran 68 FS
1
La-7
F-82
June 27, 1950

Capt. Raymond E. Schillereff 35 FS
1
IL-10
F-82
June 27, 1950

1st Lt. Robert E. Wayne 35 FS
2
IL-10
F-80
June 27, 1950

1st Lt. Richard J. Burns 35 FS
1
IL-10
F-80
June 29, 1950

1st Lt. John B. Thomas 36 FS
1
Yak-9
F-51
June 30, 1950

1st Lt. Charles A. Wurster 36 FS
1
ak-9
F-80
June 30, 1950

Capt. Francis B. Clark 35 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 17, 1950

2nd Lt. Elwood A. Kees 36 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 19, 1950

1st Lt. Robert D. McKee 36 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 19, 1950

1st Lt. Charles A. Wurster 36 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 19, 1950

2nd Lt. David H. Goodnough
35 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 20, 1950

Capt. Robert L. Lee 35 FS
1
Yak-9
F-80
July 20, 1950

1st Lt. Howard J. Landry 36 FS
1
Mig-15
F-80
March 17, 1951

2nd Lt. Robert E. Smith 36 FS
1
Mig-15
F-80
Dec. 1, 1951

Korean War Totals

35th Fighter Squadron 8

36th Fighter Squadron 7

68th Fighter Squadron 2

339th Fighter Squadron 1

8th Fighter Bomber Wing Total 18

leitmotiv
06-16-2007, 03:24 AM
There are two very good new-ish books about the fighter war over the Yalu, and one has the best information we have in the West, in English, on the Soviet and Chinese MiG-15 operations (Zhang's):

RED WINGS OVER THE YALU: CHINA, THE SOVIET UNION, AND THE AIR WAR IN KOREA. Xiaoming Zhang. Texas A&M University Press, College Station, 2002.

SABRES OVER MIG ALLEY: THE F-86 AND THE BATTLE FOR AIR SUPERIORITY IN KOREA. Kenneth P. Werrell. United States Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, 2005.

I can vouch for Werrell's previous work---he wrote the definitive (to date) history of the 20th AF B-29 incendiary operations for the Smithsonian Institute.

Badsight-
06-16-2007, 03:50 AM
the F80 claim as the first jet-on-jet victory turned out to be false

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 04:13 AM
Oh Yes... the old no pilot in the crate trick! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Number 616 Squadron could combat the pilotless planes on an equal footing. In July 1944, the unit received seven Gloster Meteors, the RAF's first jet fighter. The Meteor had a maximum speed in excess of 400 miles per hour, and could easily overtake the missiles. But the Meteor suffered from constant gun trouble-its 20mm cannons had a habit of jamming.

In spite of the balky cannons, however, the Meteors accounted for 13 flying bombs. When the guns failed, pilots could always rely upon the tipping techniques.

Meteor pilot T.D. Dean had a problem with his Meteor's cannons on August 4; he attacked a flying bomb, but his guns jammed. Undeterred, Dean maneuvered his aircraft alongside the bomb, slid a wingtip under the missile's, and executed a sharp bank, using the tipping maneuver. The V-1's gyro mechanism was thrown out of balance, and the flying bomb crashed. <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">This was the first combat victory for an Allied jet fighter.</span>

Skarphol
06-16-2007, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
The Sabre's combat record in Korea was, by any standards, impressive. Of the 900 aerial victories claimed by USAF pilots during the war, 792 were MiG-15s shot down by Sabres. The MiGs in their turn managed to knock down only 78 Sabres. American fighter pilots thus established a ten-to-one kill/loss ration in their favor.

Documented postwar research indicates there were actually only about 379 US victories. The Soviets claimed to have shot down more than 650 Sabres, while USAF records show 224 F-86s lost to all causes, including non-combat.

Thanks for the info, Woofiedog!

Skarphol

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 04:18 AM
leitmotiv... I have "Sabers Over Mig Alley" Very Good book.
Thank's for the heads up on the other book though... I'll keep an eye out for it.

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 04:21 AM
Skarphol... Piece of Cake. LoL Thank's

DKoor
06-16-2007, 05:09 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
cool pics! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Got the game but I haven't loaded a panther jet on it yet.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Looks like a lot of fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

I primarily fly the mig 21 in it.. He he... this is the closest I've ever been to the MiG-15... but sure it was fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://i17.tinypic.com/4u09mz7.jpg

Photo is bad due to fact that it's been unfortunately exposed to the weather conditions http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

It's of course my fav MiG http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

stalkervision
06-16-2007, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
cool pics! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Got the game but I haven't loaded a panther jet on it yet.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Looks like a lot of fun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

I primarily fly the mig 21 in it.. He he... this is the closest I've ever been to the MiG-15... but sure it was fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://i17.tinypic.com/4u09mz7.jpg

Photo is bad due to fact that it's been unfortunately exposed to the weather conditions http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

It's of course my fav MiG http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we have a mig 15 at a local aircraft museum I like to visit to.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Heliopause
06-16-2007, 05:48 AM
I always wondered what stories the Russians and Chinees would have about this. Finally we seem to have arrived at this point... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 06:08 AM
DKoor... Thank's for the photo!

Chinese Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War, 1950-1953

Notice the Yak-9 kill of a F-80C.

Link: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_311.shtml

Soviet Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War.

Links:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_313.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_314.shtml

Mig-15 Color's... Chinese, Soviet and N. Korean...

Links:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_318.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_317.shtml

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/v-vs_mig-15_40_shkodin_147_giap.jpg
This MiG-15 with five kill markings in the form of red stars was flown by Maj. Nikolay Shkodin, who flew with the 147 GIAP in 1953.

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/v-vs_mig-15_300_karelin_351_iap.jpg
This MiG-15bis was seen at Antung AB while in service with the 351 IAP, in autumn 1952.

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 06:17 AM
UN Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War, 1950-1953

Link: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_306.shtml

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/air-recent/meteors-japan.jpg

Meteor Operations in Korea...

Link: http://www.kmike.com/oz/77/MK8OPS.htm

The contribution made by 77 Squadron during the three years of the Korean War is totally out of proportion to its size. During the war the Squadron flew a total of 18,872 sorties, comprising of 3,872 Mustang sorties and 15,000 Meteor sorties. The effect this had on the enemy was devastating; 3,700 buildings, 1,500 vehicles, 16 bridges, 20 locomotives and 65 railway carriages destroyed. The outstanding results achieved by 77 Squadron, evidently much higher than usual for a single squadron, would not have been possible without the support of 391 (Base) and 491 (Maintenance) Squadrons. The level of technical support was outstanding, resulting in close to 100% serviceability for the Mustangs andMeteors. To achieve this, maintenance crews often worked up to sixteen hours per day under extremely harsh, and often wet, conditions.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
06-16-2007, 06:33 AM
Good stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

An interesting and informative thread as ever Woofiedog. Just found these - thought you might like.

From here:
http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=157&page=1

Some of the full images are 5332 x 4200 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/020925-O-9999G-005.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/020925-O-9999G-007.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/021001-O-9999G-007.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/040315-F-9999G-009.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/040315-F-9999G-010.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/021002-O-9999G-004.jpg

woofiedog
06-16-2007, 06:42 AM
Low_Flyer_MkVb... Good to see Yah around again. Excellent photo's. Thank's

Stop by the Dirty Fokker some nite... I'm sure we can find a few Lighting Hopkins tunes to put on the old phonograph. LoL

FPSOLKOR
06-16-2007, 09:20 PM
A good chart for US claims during Korean war
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/koreya/vicusa/vic_korea.html

A good chart for VVS claims during Korean war
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/koreya/vicussr/vic_korea_sssr.html

A good chart for UN losses during Korean war
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/koreya/potun/pot_un_korea.html

Found all MiG-15 losses in text:
Own losses for VVS were 335 MiG's and 120 pilots. Chinese and Korean AF lost 231 planes and 126 pilots, 566 planes MiG's and 246 pilots in all.

luftluuver
06-16-2007, 09:47 PM
And if you want the above links in English, http://korean-war.com/AirWar/AircraftType-LossList.html

wunder who copied who?

FPSOLKOR
06-16-2007, 09:50 PM
Who cares? Most importantly - we have something to "dance from"...

Interesting - no one includes 8/10/50 "Sukhaya Rechka" incident, when VVS lost 9 P-39's and P-63's due to attack of the soviet territoreal airfield by Alton H.Quanbeck and Alien J.Diefendorf flying F-80, what was one of the reasons to send MiG-15's to the conflict area.
.

luftluuver
06-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Did you have to have a snit fit? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

more sites,
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald_afct.htm
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald_date.htm