PDA

View Full Version : Getting shot by the AI



McMosquito
04-08-2009, 01:33 AM
Hi guys!

Any tips for avoiding getting shot by AI when meeting head-on? I've been doing some testing in QMB, me flying in a FW190 against ace P51. We start at co-altitude and approach head-on. Most of the cases the AI manages to hit my plane with a snap shot despite my maneuvering. I've tried to approach in a slight dive so that the AI has to pull a lot of lead (he attacks me from above while doing a split-S, as the usual AI routine). The AI usually manages to pull enough lead and hits my plane and it's because he doesn't suffer from blackout and can see through his plane's nose. I've also tried to make a hard turn at the last seconds to force him to roll while he is pulling lead, but I'm still getting hit.

The idea has been trying to keep my speed high and and my axis of movement perpendicular to the AI's axis to maximise the required lead and G-load for the AI's plane.

I hope at least someone made any sense of my overcomplicated explanation.

I guess one way to survive is to take the fight to the deck, but I'd like to have other options as well.

How do you guys do it?

julian265
04-08-2009, 02:11 AM
I know exactly what you mean. Keep trying, eventually you'll find a move that works.

The ace AI misses me on most first passes, I can't describe what I do, but I'm pretty sure it involves a very sharp dodge just before they're in range.

It's completely different to avoiding human fire, you do have to bleed more energy to do it.

K_Freddie
04-08-2009, 02:18 AM
With a head-on, a medium speed barrel roll towards the outside, usually works.

When leading anybody.. The time to roll out of the turn, and switch direction, is when the nose is pointing directly at you. The direction of roll is into the turn and then down and out - Going the other way you'll just get hit by bad deflection shooting.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

jamesblonde1979
04-08-2009, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by McMosquito:
Hi guys!

Any tips for avoiding getting shot by AI when meeting head-on?

Yep, don't do it.

Wait until you are about 500m from him and do a low turn, tightening as he slips by. Throw in a reverse if you need to at any point. As soon as the merge is overgain height and hammer the bastard.

As long as you are gaining height on him with each merge the fight is worth continuing.

DKoor
04-08-2009, 03:04 AM
Yeah, you must practice.
I avoid it by;
1-by flying right onto Ai...
2-little before we get into gun range (two basic evading scenarios);
-I roll to one side and just pull my stick a bit then roll to another side and pull stick, that effectively puts me back into original course
-I put my nose sharp down into dive, then sharp up either to left or right side, and just continue sharp vertical climb
...these work every time.

If you don't fly right onto Ai on first merge they will get onto your six and force you to lose energy while avoiding them so it is not a smart move.

McMosquito
04-08-2009, 05:44 AM
Heh, I've tried all the tricks you mentioned, except the barrel roll. I'll give it a go. So I guess I'm on the right track, just needing more practice since my timing seems to be a bit off.

Do you notice a lot of differences between planes? I seem to do better against the Spitfire. AI cannot pull as much Gs with it as with P51, I think.

Thanks!

R_Target
04-08-2009, 07:16 AM
Push the nose down a little when you see his guns start to wink.

Bobbo_Tabor
04-08-2009, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by McMosquito:
Do you notice a lot of differences between planes? I seem to do better against the Spitfire. AI cannot pull as much Gs with it as with P51, I think.

Thanks!

Yes, it is really annoying with the real whippy little planes like the 1-16 and the P-36. Real easy to wind up getting your engine shot out by one of them in any kind of head on.

general_kalle
04-08-2009, 10:59 AM
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

crucislancer
04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

+1

Great way to turn the tables when someone goes head-on.

HayateAce
04-08-2009, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

Simple but sounds effective. I want to give that a whirl.

Sillius_Sodus
04-08-2009, 11:27 AM
The first thing i do is get a bit of lateral separation form the bandit, preferably a turn radius of your aircraft, although I have no idea how to measure that accurately http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Then I start a slight dive to gain some speed, followed by a climbing turn slightly towards the bandit, not too steep, just a slow steady climbing pull. I try to maintain some lateral separation the whole time.

The important thing is to make sure you don't stop maneuvering, i.e. keep the stick moving through the whole maneuver. This will force the ai to constantly adjust its aim, which usually results in a miss.

With the speed gained in the slight dive, you have the choice at the merge to either do a hard horizontal turn into the bandit, or pull up into the vertical and come back down onto him. If the bandit decides to do a horizontal turn, going into the vertical can be quite advantageous. You can roll to keep the bandit in sight no matter how well they turn. Try it using F6 in QMB and it will become clearer.

Swivet
04-08-2009, 12:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif "The AI".......fuggetaboutit!
Oleg was smokin some good Russian bud that day when the AI was created..

stalkervision
04-08-2009, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

+1

Great way to turn the tables when someone goes head-on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I totally agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

stalkervision
04-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

Simple but sounds effective. I want to give that a whirl. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The lead turn is a wonderful head-on maneuver. It takes a bit of practice to do it right.

Ba5tard5word
04-08-2009, 01:22 PM
Like JamesBlonde said, don't do it. The AI is VERY accurate when they are flying at you--even a Veteran AI can tail you all day and not hit you if he's unlucky, but the vast majority of the time that I make the mistake of getting into a head-on encounter with an enemy, I get hit a bunch and lose my engine or my plane entirely, while not putting much of a scratch on the enemy.

HOWEVER, most of the time, when you first head into a group of AI enemy fighters, they will be stupid and try and gain altitude on you. If you're right at their level they will probably point straight at you and hit you, and if you're below them they'll probably dive on you. But if you're smart and you have the time, the best thing to do at the start of the mission is to try and get at least 100m above where the enemy is. This will make the AI climb to try and reach you. Not only will they lose speed in the process, they'll expose their underbellies to you without pointing their guns at you, and they won't bother to make evasive turns to evade your fire. Basically it's a very easy way to

So what I generally do is try to get some altitude, like maybe 1000m to 2000m if my enemy is at 500m. If you have the map on, the enemy plane icon will wiggle a bit on the map when they see you and start heading at you, at this point I get ready. Then I point my nose down to go into a shallow dive and pick up speed while keeping an eye on the enemy so I can time my approach right. 90% of the time the enemy will point up to slowly gain altitude as I described, while I'm pointed down and going at a nice high speed. When I reach the enemy planes' level they usually keep pointing up, while I'm pointed right at them and at this point it's very easy to get a kill or two because they don't bother to move at all--it's like they shut off their AI for a little while. Then when they pass over you they will revert to their usual routines and evade most of your approaches and be way trickier to take down.

Also another thing is that at the merge when they pass over or by me and I just flew at them, at this point I am going very fast and they are pretty slow. I generally like to pull hard to the left or right to meet them again--I lose a lot of speed but if I can turn and they are still in their AI drone mode, I can pull right up on them just above their speed and get some more shots in before they go into evasion mode.

Doing this for a while you will get a sense on how to do this, I would imagine most experience offline pilots do this to exploit the AI.

But be careful because sometimes the enemy will break the climb and point at you and get into a head-on attack which is bad.

Obviously having an altitude advantage on your enemy is always a good idea no matter what, but again doing this process seems to make the enemy AI do a really stupid routine 90% of the time that lets you get an easy kill or two.

CloCloZ
04-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

+1

Great way to turn the tables when someone goes head-on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I totally agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

AI aces are snipers on head-on, otherwise they are quite poor at deflection shooting (just a little bit better than the less skilled AI pilots of the other categories), usually poor enough to let you survive if you take general_kalle's advice.
Just keep your speed high and start turning not too early and not too late.

For example, when flying a late war energy fighter (Tempest, FW190D, ...) and facing equal opponents I keep my speed above 500 km/h and start turning when EA are 300-400 mt far away.
Usually AI aces start shooting at me at 150-200 mt but miss the fast moving target. After that I'm usually at advantage on them.

JSG72
04-08-2009, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:
Push the nose down a little when you see his guns start to wink.

Yep That's what I do. Then a slight raise and BANG I usually nail them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Have never been downed in an AI headon.

RPMcMurphy
04-08-2009, 05:53 PM
Against fighters I do some jigging as we approach eachother and I don't go exactly head-on. I send a burst at them when the time feels right while using rudder to push over for a sideways shot and then I roll out and away. Best thing is to just avoid head-ons if you can, unless it's against a bomber.


(I wrote this while holding a screaming baby in my lap. Not the most clear exolaination of how i deal with a headon.)

McMosquito
04-09-2009, 01:01 AM
Some excellent advices there, thanks!

About the lead turn, maybe I'm doing something wrong because the AI usually manages to hit my plane's tail. I don't approach head-on, instead I try to keep him 20-30 degrees off of my heading when he is 1.5-2.5 km away. I roll towards him and begin a shallow turn. I look straight up and try to keep his plane center of the view, "above my head". Sometimes he misses, but usually he ruins my elevators. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Well, repeat, repeat, repeat..


Originally posted by R_Target:
Push the nose down a little when you see his guns start to wink.

Is AI poor at shooting while negative G's?

Any tips against AI on my tail? I've heard that a shallow turn works, since AI is poor on deflection shooting. But he gains on me in the turn and ends up 100-200 m behind pounding my poor plane. I've tried to make a hard turn just before he is about to fire, but he still makes a quick snapshot on me.

I try to always have E advantage before fight, but that's not possible every time. And I manage to lose my E advantage rather quickly against AI, despite trying to be gentle on the controls. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That's why I practice these situations.

Nice tip Ba5tard5word, I'll try that!

Ba5tard5word
04-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Hmm...well if there is an enemy on your tail that won't go away and is being very persistent...and your AI wingmen are being morons who won't cover you and/or are getting themselves shot down, well usually what I do is just try to make repeated hard turns to the left or right--often this seems to make the AI get bored or lazy and just start flying away from you.

If I have wingmen I will have the main one (hit one to access his commands) cover me, he's usually lazy or gets chased off to the horizon by the enemy, but sometimes he will chase after an enemy that tries to get on my tail.

Mainly I just try not to get tailed, and keep an eye on all enemies to the extent I can so they don't get behind me. If you're unlucky, just one bullet hitting your plane can screw up your engine or your flight surfaces making its control harder or impossible. And usually when the enemy AI get within range to hit me, they will hit me a bunch...though sometimes they will tail me all day firing wildly and never hit me once.

If you want you could check out the air pirates campaigns I made, the missions are generally all at 500 meters and generally involve a lot of action right after taking off, and might be good for getting experience in dogfighting.

Segwin
04-09-2009, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
do a lead turn...means starting a 180 degrees turn just before the merge...he's gonna have a difficult shot and after the merge you are already halfway turned around after him . if he's quick you might have to face a difficult deflektion shot as he's turning aswell but in time you should gain on him.

I've wondered how a flat scissors fight would start but that would be the most natural outcome from this initial maneuver - no?